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PostPosted: 18 Feb 2012 17:49 
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PostPosted: 18 Feb 2012 17:54 
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china has started on building a chengdu to lhasa railway line which will shorten the current circuitous railway journey from 48 hrs to much less when completed in 8 yrs.

photos , map and report here
http://www.defence.pk/forums/chinese-de ... layed.html

this will open a direct route from the upper reaches of the yangzte river area to lhasa and obviously permit much easier mil mobilization from that direction too, not just from northern tibet side.


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PostPosted: 18 Feb 2012 20:04 
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PratikDas wrote:
Spot on, Shiv ji, regarding the 2nd parcel falling near the soldier's feet.

Also, they won't have portable holes at their convenience in a real battlefield, so if they'd have to grab the explosive and lob it back then they might as well practice that as opposed to banging it down into their own bunker :lol:


Is that drill supposed to increase mental toughness or what ?
Which gun is that and why is that officer firing in air just like in a Paki wedding ? Isn't that dangerous, even in a firing range ? Some buildings are seem like they are only less than 100m away from where they are shooting.


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PostPosted: 18 Feb 2012 20:32 
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Singha wrote:
china has started on building a chengdu to lhasa railway line which will shorten the current circuitous railway journey from 48 hrs to much less when completed in 8 yrs.

photos , map and report here
http://www.defence.pk/forums/chinese-de ... layed.html

this will open a direct route from the upper reaches of the yangzte river area to lhasa and obviously permit much easier mil mobilization from that direction too, not just from northern tibet side.


except in china daily dated 2009, there is no news about it. also searched china daily under search, returned 0 results.
went thru chacha. :?:
All the results show the xining- llhasa route which is the only link.


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PostPosted: 18 Feb 2012 20:58 
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the shape and size of the J-20 bomb bay indicates that two large ASM could be carried internally. alternately perhaps 6 LRAAM in the escort role in a mixed formation.

the JSF will have its task cut out :twisted:


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PostPosted: 18 Feb 2012 22:14 
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Singha wrote:
china has started on building a chengdu to lhasa railway line which will shorten the current circuitous railway journey from 48 hrs to much less when completed in 8 yrs.

photos , map and report here
http://www.defence.pk/forums/chinese-de ... layed.html

this will open a direct route from the upper reaches of the yangzte river area to lhasa and obviously permit much easier mil mobilization from that direction too, not just from northern tibet side.


Quote:
Trains will travel at a maximum speed of 200 km per hour and will take only eight hours to reach Lhasa,


Nice. But the train climbs to 15,000 feet, which means at least a week of acclimatization for any human.


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PostPosted: 18 Feb 2012 22:43 
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shiv wrote:
Singha wrote:
china has started on building a chengdu to lhasa railway line which will shorten the current circuitous railway journey from 48 hrs to much less when completed in 8 yrs.

photos , map and report here
http://www.defence.pk/forums/chinese-de ... layed.html

this will open a direct route from the upper reaches of the yangzte river area to lhasa and obviously permit much easier mil mobilization from that direction too, not just from northern tibet side.


Quote:
Trains will travel at a maximum speed of 200 km per hour and will take only eight hours to reach Lhasa,


Nice. But the train climbs to 15,000 feet, which means at least a week of acclimatization for any human.


some facts according tothis website regarding the only rail link to Tibet-
1)
Quote:
There are several trains from Xining to Lhasa. But most of them start from other cities of China and stop at Xining Train Station generally for 20 minutes. Only two trains, K9801 and K9811, start from Xining to Lhasa. The train K9801 from Xining to Lhasa departs every other day at 15:02 from Xining Train Station, and arrives at Lhasa Railway Station at 14:55 on the second day after over 24 hours covering a distance of 1960 kilometers, while the K9811 starts every other day from Xining at 22:00 and reaches Lhasa at 21:40 on the second day. The operational speed is also 120 km/h, 100 km/h over sections laid on permafrost. It costs around RMB800 for a first-class sleeper berth, about RMB500 for a second-class sleeper berth and half that for a soft seat.

Like each Lhasa-bound train, the train to Lhasa from Xining is also especially built for the high altitude environment and equipped with advanced facilities, such as air-conditioning, supercharging system, oxygen supply, altitude display, etc. The train is also tightly sealed so as to firstly keep the inside air pressure normal and secondly prevent passengers from littering. Besides, all the carriages are installed with double-paned windows and ultraviolet filters to protect passengers from ultraviolet radiation. Toady, Xining has become a hot station for tourists taking Tibet train to Lhasa. Some tourists may want to stay at Xining for a short period. But some might not be able to get train tickets directly to Lhasa from other cities of China so they have to transfer at Xining Train Station after flying to Xining.

2) what to wear-
Quote:
You should realize that you will spend 2 nights in the train. The Qinghai-Tibet Train is considered as a 3-star facility train in China, but it is not a hotel, no disposable provided. You need to prepare your own slippers, towel, cup, teeth brush, teeth paste, soap, even tissue paper to the train. Another problem you have to think about is the food, although there is a restaurant car in the middle of the train which provides Chinese food. At least you need think about to buy some milk, bread, fruit, etc. for the train journey. Tibet train has heating and cooling, so you do not need to ware too much in the train.

3) About altitude sickness
Quote:
It is said train to Tibet can help you adapting the high altitude slowly by the smoothly ascending elevation; of course it works but is not absolutely correct. Because when train going through Qinghai-Tibet Plateau, air pressure inside train is not as low as the outside as the cars are always close, in addition, the Oxygen is fulfilled the cars. Actually, the passengers live in a different environment from the actual plateau environment outside; it does not help you too much on acclimating. As our experience, the major purposes for travelers to go to Tibet by train are the cheap price and to experience the famous train itself. Therefore, you may consider taking train leaving Lhasa after your trip in peak travel season when the tickets booking of going into Lhasa trains are too busy.

Quote:
2. What kind of diseases is dangerous for passengers who take train to Tibet?

According to the sanitarian department and doctors, the passengers can travel to the plateau only after, finishing their physical examination and approved by the doctors. Passengers are not suitably travel to the plateau area where above 3,000 meters when they have one of the following diseases: Each kind of nature heart disease, apparent heart heat abnormal or the heats are above 100 times per minute, the hypertension II, blood dissease and the brain vein disease.Chronicity respiratory system disease moderate above blocking lung disease including bronchia tube asthma, bronchiectasis, pulmonary emphysema, activity pulmonary tuberculosis, dust pulmonary tuberculosis etc.


edited- another website regarding altitude sickness- chinatibettrain
This is the official website. Strange that it has the name of china and tibet in it when hans consider tibet part of china.
Quote:
The Beijing-Lhasa train will run at a speed of 160 km per hour on the plain, but will slow down at 120 km per hour when it reaches the Qinghai-Tibet section.

The line includes the Tanggula Pass, at 5,072 m above sea level the world's highest rail track. More than 960 km, or over 80% of the railway, is at an altitude of more than 4,000 m. There are 675 bridges, totaling 159.88 km, and over half the length of the railway is laid on permafrost.

Quote:
Acclimatization is the process of the body adjusting to the decreased availability of oxygen at high altitudes. It is a slow process, taking place over a period of days to weeks.

High altitude is defined as:
- High Altitude: 1500 - 3500 m (5000 - 11500 ft)
- Very High Altitude: 3500 - 5500 m (11500 - 18000 ft)
- Extreme Altitude: above 5500 m


Practically speaking, however, we generally don't worry much about elevations below about 2500 m (8000 ft) since altitude illness rarely occurs lower than this.

Image

Of course Shiv has mentioned many times regarding the tibetan plateau and the above issues in his posts.
Except the hardy tibetans who have lived for centuries, others like hans have to be acclamatised.


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PostPosted: 18 Feb 2012 23:05 
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krisna wrote:
Singha wrote:
china has started on building a chengdu to lhasa railway line which will shorten the current circuitous railway journey from 48 hrs to much less when completed in 8 yrs.

photos , map and report here
http://www.defence.pk/forums/chinese-de ... layed.html

this will open a direct route from the upper reaches of the yangzte river area to lhasa and obviously permit much easier mil mobilization from that direction too, not just from northern tibet side.


except in china daily dated 2009, there is no news about it. also searched china daily under search, returned 0 results.
went thru chacha. :?:
All the results show the xining- llhasa route which is the only link.


http://www.cablegatesearch.net/cable.php?id=09CHENGDU81
Quote:
Additionally, upcoming railway projects will link Chengdu directly with the Tibetan Autonomous Region and Tbetan areas of Sichuan and Gansu provinces. According to local media reports, the Ministry of the Railway and the provincial government on January 10 signed an agreement to accelerate construction of railways, including a new line from Chengdu to Lhasa. Construction on the Chengdu-Lhasa railway is to begin this year, and will take eight years to complete at a cost of 53.78 billion RMB. It will run via Aba Autonomous Prefecture, then through Qinghai and Xinjiang. The new line from Chengdu to Lanzhou will also run through Aba and will cover Tibetan areas of Gansu. The, rail links into Tibetan areas, especially the Chengdu-Lhasa line, are expected to be controversial for both social and environmental reasons.


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PostPosted: 18 Feb 2012 23:14 
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chaanakya wrote:

http://www.cablegatesearch.net/cable.php?id=09CHENGDU81
Quote:
Additionally, upcoming railway projects will link Chengdu directly with the Tibetan Autonomous Region and Tbetan areas of Sichuan and Gansu provinces. According to local media reports, the Ministry of the Railway and the provincial government on January 10 signed an agreement to accelerate construction of railways, including a new line from Chengdu to Lhasa. Construction on the Chengdu-Lhasa railway is to begin this year, and will take eight years to complete at a cost of 53.78 billion RMB. It will run via Aba Autonomous Prefecture, then through Qinghai and Xinjiang. The new line from Chengdu to Lanzhou will also run through Aba and will cover Tibetan areas of Gansu. The, rail links into Tibetan areas, especially the Chengdu-Lhasa line, are expected to be controversial for both social and environmental reasons.


Thanks chaanakya
the date is still 2009 and no further news since then-
Quote:
Reference id aka Wikileaks id #206689  ? 
Subject Connecting The Southwest: Sichuan's New Roads Paved With Quake Money
Origin Consulate Chengdu (China)
Cable time Wed, 13 May 2009 05:49 UTC
Classification UNCLASSIFIED//FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY
Source http://wikileaks.org/cable/2009/05/09CHENGDU81.html
References 09CHENGDU69


The reason is asking for updates is the famed chinese efficiency- they tend to complete on time . It is almost 3 years since the above news.
Of course the terrain is difficult to build and operate.


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PostPosted: 20 Feb 2012 09:38 
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Chinese AWACS System - An Interview with the Designer ( use translator )


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PostPosted: 20 Feb 2012 09:50 
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http://defensetech.org/2012/02/06/did-c ... 35-delays/

Chinese shortcut methods


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PostPosted: 20 Feb 2012 13:39 
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I am sure they are building it fast and quietly. the terrain can be no worse than what was already covered in existing quinghai to lhasa line.

they are pretty world class in these big civil construction projects wrt to planning and execution - thats why bagging lots of work worldwide.


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PostPosted: 23 Feb 2012 12:20 
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Chinese military meets with Indonesian Defense Minister and Sri Lankan Guests


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PostPosted: 23 Feb 2012 12:48 
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Russia will deliver Su-35 fighters and “Triumph” air defense systems to China

Quote:
China hopes to acquire new Russian S-400 Triumph air defense system by 2015, but only the question of delivery of Su-35 fighters to this country is being discussed at the moment, Rossiyskaya Gazeta reports.

"The Chinese party has shown interest in acquisition of a number of Su-35 jets and submitted a proposal to us in 2011. At present this problem is being elaborated by the designated institution of Russia", - said the First Deputy Director General of Federal Service of Military-Technical Cooperation, Alexander Fomin.

Speaking of prospects of air defense systems deliveries to China, Fomin has reminded that during a period from 1993 to 2010 a large number of Russian air defense missile systems, including S-300PMU2 “Favorit”, have been delivered to China.

"As for further cooperation with China in the area of air defense, at present the Chinese partners are showing interest in acquisition of next-generation S-400 Triumph air defense systems. They want to acquire the first batch in 2015", - Fomin said.

According to Fomin, the prospects of deliveries of S-400 Triumph air defense systems to China may be defined in proportion to deliveries of these systems to the Russian armed forces.

"At present the construction of additional capacities for production of S-400 Triumph air defense systems is being carried out. China has not shown interest in acquisition of other Russian air defense systems yet", - Fomin said.


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PostPosted: 23 Feb 2012 14:05 
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^ Win for fatherland, like lawyer.... Sell S-400 air defence system to China and T-50 to India.... keep both sides in competition and fatherland's pockets full .... keep money flowing :wink: :wink:


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PostPosted: 23 Feb 2012 15:33 
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^^^
well when we are busy buying Rafales, C-17s, Apaches, C-130s, P8Is, 414s etc; they are busy buyig Su-35, S400s.. Simple..


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PostPosted: 23 Feb 2012 16:03 
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The Chinese and Russians are working on new IPR agreement and that would be the first step for any future defence deal . We have similar IPR agreement with Russian for new deals takes care of many aspect including respecting IP of both parties.

The Russian now want to ensure that they do not reverse engineer any more stuff and get paid for lic.

Chinese has little option but to go the Russian way for new hardware no one is selling them any ways , India has far more diverse market to procure.


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PostPosted: 23 Feb 2012 16:24 
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Austin wrote:


Can some gurus throw some light please?

What air defence system do we have currently?

Is our current air defence system strong enough to stop Chinese attack?

What are our plans to modernise it?

Are we developing our own air defence system? If so, when will it be accomplished?

Aren’t Russians developing S – 500?

Do we need S - 400 or S - 500?

In case of war with China, would we be able to penetrate Chinese air space if they have S400 (they may develop it better in next few years)?

Can any air defence system be jammed electronically?

I know that China is upgrading its air defence system primarily against USA but it has a negative impact on us as well.

Also, aren’t Russians playing one off against the other to make good bucks? Can we not pressurise Russians not to sell S400 to Chinese as we are their major customer?


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PostPosted: 23 Feb 2012 16:38 
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Our current air defense capabilities(missiles and guns) suk. Most of them are outdated.


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PostPosted: 23 Feb 2012 19:13 
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Will wrote:
Our current air defense capabilities(missiles and guns) suk. Most of them are outdated.

The most important component of the Indian air defense system - the surveillance network - is undergoing massive upgrades and will be netted into a digital data network. Indian ground based air defenses, with the induction of indigenous, JV and imported missile batteries will result in one of the most capable and challenging air defense environments in the world.

When viewed in conjunction with the airfield and airbase infrastructure development programs, induction of more capable fighter-bombers and force multiplier assets as well as steady progress on the ABM front - the air defense outlook is reasonably rosy vis-a-vis china.

Air offensive against China on the other hand is a whole different ball game.


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PostPosted: 23 Feb 2012 20:53 
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the nearest economic supertargets of value in china that would make them sit up and take notice are probably high value plants in Chengu and Chongqing. they are 1500 and 1750km one way from hashimara respectively.

Kuming the capital of Yunnan is around 1300km from hashimara and 850km from tezpur. it is not a economic CoG afaik, definitely not in the league of chengdu.

hainan island is around 1800km from tezpur if you want to strike a vital military target.

so I dont think ANY plane incl rafale with 5 drop tanks can make the round trip to any of these targets with a realistic payload and have any margin of safety in terms of range and detours. they are also way outside the surveillance bubble of Phalcons orbiting over Assam.

we are talking Blackjacks and Boners here if we want that kind of client-site H1b hitting power. thats not happening.

OR

we need air launched Nirbhays in quantity with 1000km of range in lo-lo-lo mode. offshore the whole thing and let the nirbhay manage client interactions. strike planes fly within our phalcon bubbles to the edge, release nirbhays and come back. that way almost every economic target starting from guangzhou and shenzhen back up the pearl river valley can be targeted in need be.

needless to say we'd also need more bases in the NER and existing bases upsized to gwalior, jamnagar, hindon and jodhpur type shakinaw levels...not a cemented strip in the middle of a rice field with grass growing through gaps in the concrete and a couple of guys sleeping below the shade provided by a mothballed Mig23 airframe :rotfl:

and addl awacs, tankers, ELINT birds, logistical planes and helicopters, satellite bases, SAM units too.


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PostPosted: 23 Feb 2012 21:21 
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Badar wrote:
Will wrote:
Our current air defense capabilities(missiles and guns) suk. Most of them are outdated.

The most important component of the Indian air defense system - the surveillance network - is undergoing massive upgrades and will be netted into a digital data network. Indian ground based air defenses, with the induction of indigenous, JV and imported missile batteries will result in one of the most capable and challenging air defense environments in the world.

When viewed in conjunction with the airfield and airbase infrastructure development programs, induction of more capable fighter-bombers and force multiplier assets as well as steady progress on the ABM front - the air defense outlook is reasonably rosy vis-a-vis china.

Air offensive against China on the other hand is a whole different ball game.


Well, I was pointing out to the current state of affairs. Yes, upgrades are happening ,but the way things work in our country the question is how many years will it take. Hope the current system isnt put to the test before the upgrades are through.


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PostPosted: 24 Feb 2012 12:24 
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Austin wrote:


S-400 Triumph deal is just a matter of time but the SU-35 is not gonna happen. Why spend billions on SU-35, Eurofighter or Rafale when the 5th Gen era is just around the corner ? Its pretty stupid.


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PostPosted: 25 Feb 2012 00:10 
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X-POSTED NOTICE RE: STRATFOR “Strategic Forecasting” // “Global Intelligence”

Rakshaks,

I’m not sure how much “play” this story got – I’ve had my head down for a few weeks now – but perhaps this event provides an opportunity you’ll want to avail yourself of:

It recently made the news that one of America’s “thought-leader” think tanks “STRATFOR” was badly hacked, probably by the Chinese, and a list of all their subscribers was revealed, including a virtual “who’s who” in the US Government’s Departments of State and Defense. Indeed, STRATFOR stuff has been required reading for this lot since forever.

Well, in response to this enormous security breach, STRATFOR has removed the (completely compromised) password/login rigmarole and is now offering all of its web content for free.

Go to http://www.stratfor.com/ where the top line reads “Temporarily offering all content for free”. The “Geopolitical Diary” and “Analysis” sections are particularly interesting.

There are literally hundreds of articles on all sorts of (security/defense/geopolitical) topics, many of which will greatly interest Rakshaks.

Certainly, it is interesting to read what those folks are reading – it provides a window on their world, which after all, we all share.

Enjoy!


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PostPosted: 25 Feb 2012 03:08 
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^ not happening unless the Russians have something that can easily check the Su-35 i.e. Pakfa. Not much trust there. Triumf? Could be.


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PostPosted: 25 Feb 2012 10:10 
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http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=271_1330077192


The all-terrain walking excavator ET110 built by XCMG, China's 3rd largest
construction machinery manufacturer, was customized for complex terrains such as hills and waterways. XCMG had a demo for this funny spider at bauma China 2010.
The concept of mobile excavator was proposed by a swiss engineer named Ernst Menzi about half a century ago.


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PostPosted: 25 Feb 2012 11:01 
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nice piece of work. the steam powered spider thing in will smith's wild wild west was more scary though.


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PostPosted: 25 Feb 2012 12:29 
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Austin wrote:
The Chinese and Russians are working on new IPR agreement and that would be the first step for any future defence deal . We have similar IPR agreement with Russian for new deals takes care of many aspect including respecting IP of both parties.

The Russian now want to ensure that they do not reverse engineer any more stuff and get paid for lic.

Chinese has little option but to go the Russian way for new hardware no one is selling them any ways , India has far more diverse market to procure.

The Russian have been trying to sell CHina their SU-35 for a while now and the Chinese are simply not interested. Soon the other windows even on advance SAM's or engines will be closed too.


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PostPosted: 25 Feb 2012 13:27 
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Shankaraa wrote:
Austin wrote:


Can some gurus throw some light please?

What air defence system do we have currently?

Is our current air defence system strong enough to stop Chinese attack?

What are our plans to modernise it?

Are we developing our own air defence system? If so, when will it be accomplished?

Aren’t Russians developing S – 500?

Do we need S - 400 or S - 500?

In case of war with China, would we be able to penetrate Chinese air space if they have S400 (they may develop it better in next few years)?

Can any air defence system be jammed electronically?

I know that China is upgrading its air defence system primarily against USA but it has a negative impact on us as well.

Also, aren’t Russians playing one off against the other to make good bucks? Can we not pressurise Russians not to sell S400 to Chinese as we are their major customer?


IMHO the question should be reversed. How will acquisition of S-400 impact the performance of Raffy, SU-30MKI and LCA ? A follow up question would be, how would Raffy and EFT fare against S-400? Finally what air defenses do we have to negate the possible acquisition of SU-35 by PLAAF?


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PostPosted: 25 Feb 2012 13:39 
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MArten are you not aware of the Chinese Hanghang engine(WS-XX), it is supposed to supercruise/have thrust vectored nozzles and a life of 2000000 hrs and Russia is planning to buy it for the t-50.


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PostPosted: 25 Feb 2012 13:40 
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Ravi Karumanchiri wrote:
X-POSTED NOTICE RE: STRATFOR “Strategic Forecasting” // “Global Intelligence”

Rakshaks,

I’m not sure how much “play” this story got – I’ve had my head down for a few weeks now – but perhaps this event provides an opportunity you’ll want to avail yourself of:

It recently made the news that one of America’s “thought-leader” think tanks “STRATFOR” was badly hacked, probably by the Chinese, and a list of all their subscribers was revealed, including a virtual “who’s who” in the US Government’s Departments of State and Defense. Indeed, STRATFOR stuff has been required reading for this lot since forever.

Well, in response to this enormous security breach, STRATFOR has removed the (completely compromised) password/login rigmarole and is now offering all of its web content for free.

Go to http://www.stratfor.com/ where the top line reads “Temporarily offering all content for free”. The “Geopolitical Diary” and “Analysis” sections are particularly interesting.

There are literally hundreds of articles on all sorts of (security/defense/geopolitical) topics, many of which will greatly interest Rakshaks.

Certainly, it is interesting to read what those folks are reading – it provides a window on their world, which after all, we all share.

Enjoy!

Thanks Ravi for the info. Statfor has some decent analysis which worthy to be read.


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PostPosted: 26 Feb 2012 03:17 
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A pic of the newest Chinese 5th gen stealth fighter that they are apparently working on.

Image

Quote:
A scale-down model of J-21 was unveiled by the 601 Institute at the first International UAV Innovation Grand Prix held in Beijing in September 2011. It was first rumored in April 2011 that 601/SAC are developing a 4th generation medium multi-role stealth fighter as J-21. The aircraft has a conventional design featuring twin engines and DSIs similar to both American F-22 and F-35. The prototype could initially be powered by the 8.5t class WS-13 turbofan but later by the new 9.5t class "medium thrust" engine. A full-scale metal model may have been built in early 2011. The first prototype has been under construction since late 2011. First flight was projected to be in September 2012. J-21 is expected to be promoted at the international market as well as a low-cost alternative to American F-35.


http://cnair.top81.cn/J-10_J-11_FC-1.htm#J-21


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PostPosted: 26 Feb 2012 03:56 
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One at a time, lads - currently the chinese fifth generation crafts's focus is about being invisible. "Not falling to the ground" is still work in progress and the engine already looks nice with that chrome plated rims. Plus it is supposed to carry a stepney engine in its "very very large internal storage".

Anyways, if you are invisible to everyone and fall to the ground, that should be ok for H&D, right? So why beat up poor outsourced drones, who are trying to earn an honest living by informing us "only today, offer not going to last" deals?

Rafale recently did some interesting real world missions, not just fifth-gen emissions. Reason for takleef indeed amongst what PAF refer to as "limp old men of PLAAF'. Them bad paksters.


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PostPosted: 27 Feb 2012 03:11 
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Video of J-20 testing some maneuverable move


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PostPosted: 27 Feb 2012 06:01 
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ashi wrote:

Is this new? I thought I saw a similar video several months ago. 5'50" to 6'27" - 180 degree turn - about 2.5-3G I guess.


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PostPosted: 27 Feb 2012 08:32 
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I don't think it would be called J21. It is almost clear now that this plane by Shenyang is developed mainly for export purpose, without money and number (such like J21) from the PLA. It is called AMF (advanced multi-role fighter?) now More like the FC-1 (or called JF-17 by Pakistanis), currently it is for business although we do not exclude the possibility of future buying from the Chinese air force or navy.

Nick_S wrote:
A pic of the newest Chinese 5th gen stealth fighter that they are apparently working on.

Image

Quote:
A scale-down model of J-21 was unveiled by the 601 Institute at the first International UAV Innovation Grand Prix held in Beijing in September 2011. It was first rumored in April 2011 that 601/SAC are developing a 4th generation medium multi-role stealth fighter as J-21. The aircraft has a conventional design featuring twin engines and DSIs similar to both American F-22 and F-35. The prototype could initially be powered by the 8.5t class WS-13 turbofan but later by the new 9.5t class "medium thrust" engine. A full-scale metal model may have been built in early 2011. The first prototype has been under construction since late 2011. First flight was projected to be in September 2012. J-21 is expected to be promoted at the international market as well as a low-cost alternative to American F-35.


http://cnair.top81.cn/J-10_J-11_FC-1.htm#J-21


Last edited by wrdos on 27 Feb 2012 08:44, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 27 Feb 2012 08:43 
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It was taken Feb.26, or yesterday, the most fresh video of J-20.
It was said that several big bosses arrived Chengdu yesterday, so the company got almost all of their new birds on sky to give a show. Not only J-20, but also J-10b, J-10as and a trainer also.

shiv wrote:
ashi wrote:

Is this new? I thought I saw a similar video several months ago. 5'50" to 6'27" - 180 degree turn - about 2.5-3G I guess.


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PostPosted: 27 Feb 2012 10:14 
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Joined: 10 Sep 2007 05:57
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wrdos wrote:
I don't think it would be called J21. It is almost clear now that this plane by Shenyang is developed mainly for export purpose, without money and number (such like J21) from the PLA. It is called AMF (advanced multi-role fighter?) now More like the FC-1 (or called JF-17 by Pakistanis), currently it is for business although we do not exclude the possibility of future buying from the Chinese air force or navy.

That's not very good marketing, I think. Most countries will probably say, "if the Chinese themselves are not using their own aircraft, why should we buy it?" I wonder how many customers they will find in this situation (aside from the Pakis, who'll buy it if they have no other choice).


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PostPosted: 27 Feb 2012 11:09 
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Sure, we all know that it is not a good marketing. AVIC,the Shenyang Institute (601) especially, hope badly that the Air Force and/or Navy could finally buy some planes AMF finally. But who knows they will succeed or not, especially now.

Shenyang's history of export has been very terrible. They sold many J-6 (mig19) out but it was decades ago. The following J-8 and J-8IIM is totally a failure for the international market.

Hope them good luck with the AMF, we can only say.

ArmenT wrote:
wrdos wrote:
I don't think it would be called J21. It is almost clear now that this plane by Shenyang is developed mainly for export purpose, without money and number (such like J21) from the PLA. It is called AMF (advanced multi-role fighter?) now More like the FC-1 (or called JF-17 by Pakistanis), currently it is for business although we do not exclude the possibility of future buying from the Chinese air force or navy.

That's not very good marketing, I think. Most countries will probably say, "if the Chinese themselves are not using their own aircraft, why should we buy it?" I wonder how many customers they will find in this situation (aside from the Pakis, who'll buy it if they have no other choice).


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PostPosted: 27 Feb 2012 11:22 
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J-21 design to me looks very conventional but with LO characteristics , very F-22ish type except for the change in intake design and DSI bump.

Perhaps a cheap affordable fighter its aiming for ? While J-20 is on the upper tier.


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