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PostPosted: 27 Feb 2012 10:14 
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wrdos wrote:
I don't think it would be called J21. It is almost clear now that this plane by Shenyang is developed mainly for export purpose, without money and number (such like J21) from the PLA. It is called AMF (advanced multi-role fighter?) now More like the FC-1 (or called JF-17 by Pakistanis), currently it is for business although we do not exclude the possibility of future buying from the Chinese air force or navy.

That's not very good marketing, I think. Most countries will probably say, "if the Chinese themselves are not using their own aircraft, why should we buy it?" I wonder how many customers they will find in this situation (aside from the Pakis, who'll buy it if they have no other choice).


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PostPosted: 27 Feb 2012 11:09 
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Sure, we all know that it is not a good marketing. AVIC,the Shenyang Institute (601) especially, hope badly that the Air Force and/or Navy could finally buy some planes AMF finally. But who knows they will succeed or not, especially now.

Shenyang's history of export has been very terrible. They sold many J-6 (mig19) out but it was decades ago. The following J-8 and J-8IIM is totally a failure for the international market.

Hope them good luck with the AMF, we can only say.

ArmenT wrote:
wrdos wrote:
I don't think it would be called J21. It is almost clear now that this plane by Shenyang is developed mainly for export purpose, without money and number (such like J21) from the PLA. It is called AMF (advanced multi-role fighter?) now More like the FC-1 (or called JF-17 by Pakistanis), currently it is for business although we do not exclude the possibility of future buying from the Chinese air force or navy.

That's not very good marketing, I think. Most countries will probably say, "if the Chinese themselves are not using their own aircraft, why should we buy it?" I wonder how many customers they will find in this situation (aside from the Pakis, who'll buy it if they have no other choice).


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PostPosted: 27 Feb 2012 11:22 
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J-21 design to me looks very conventional but with LO characteristics , very F-22ish type except for the change in intake design and DSI bump.

Perhaps a cheap affordable fighter its aiming for ? While J-20 is on the upper tier.


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PostPosted: 27 Feb 2012 12:03 
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it does have some similarity to the JF17 in terms of wings, elevators, intake...in my opinion this is the direction in which JF17 would evolve in its next iteration (not MLU), but perhaps a JF18 model taking off from this model.

the paks would find it hard to afford a J20 sized heavy strike plane.

but PRC surely has another model in the works, in the size of J10/Typhoon/F22 as its primary vlo a2a plane going fwd...this is where all the A1 teams and $$ would be pouring in now, while J20 keeps the spotters entertained and JF18 keeps the pakis happy. the pakis would leverage its volume production scale instead of a pak-only JF18 bird.


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PostPosted: 27 Feb 2012 13:56 
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Hmmm, I don't think it is from JF17 thread. There are some similarity of course, but every fighter share many with each other.
AMF is 2 engine, 5 gen or 4.5 gen fighter from Shenyang, not Chengdu which is the mother of JF17, a cheap single engien, 3.5~4gen light fighter with a thread back to J-7. You might know that Shenyang and Chengdu are rival to each other and leading different routes in the Chinese aeroplane manufacture sector.

JF17 is too small and at the first moment everybody knows that it would have no future in the Chinese military, but AMF is regarded much more hopeful.

Singha wrote:
it does have some similarity to the JF17 in terms of wings, elevators, intake...in my opinion this is the direction in which JF17 would evolve in its next iteration (not MLU), but perhaps a JF18 model taking off from this model.

the paks would find it hard to afford a J20 sized heavy strike plane.

but PRC surely has another model in the works, in the size of J10/Typhoon/F22 as its primary vlo a2a plane going fwd...this is where all the A1 teams and $$ would be pouring in now, while J20 keeps the spotters entertained and JF18 keeps the pakis happy. the pakis would leverage its volume production scale instead of a pak-only JF18 bird.


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PostPosted: 27 Feb 2012 20:02 
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The rivalry between Chengdu and Shenyang is heating up again. There are reports that Chengdu is also developing a single engine fifth gen fighter.

I think the market for a small to medium size fifth generation fighter is wide open. The traditional sellers are having their own issues. The American with their JSF are facing teething problems and massive cost escalation. The Europeans are practically bankrupt. I think there room for new players if they play their cards right. I know the Korean / Indonesian KF-X are moving ahead. There are several other paper projects that will take time. So I think this is a good investment.....

Back shot of J-21

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PostPosted: 28 Feb 2012 19:54 
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PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012 10:12 
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Surprise surprise..the Chinese have expressed an interest in the Su-35 fighters and S-400 Triumph SAMs. No doubts what they will eventually intend to do with those if they do land a contract for them with Russia. And the Russians are even considering the request, it seems. I guess they deserve to be ripped off with reverse engineered Su-35, sorry J-XX Jing Jangs and HQ-XXs.

China requests Su-35 fighter buy


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PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012 10:22 
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they would likely hope to get a good look at its 117S engine, ECM suite and RCS reduction measures.


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PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012 11:40 
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Most likely China would like to catch up with the technological gap irrespective of how their local program goes and would like to hedge against it much like we do.

PLAAF does not have any thing more modern then MKK which is inferior to IAF MKI and S-300PMU2 SAM which was signed in late 90's.

Su-35 would provide PLAAF an effective counter against IAF technological superiority in MKI and Rafale plus it would play well against JSF that Australia plans to buy , S-400 sam too would add potent punch over S-300PMU2.

Most likely the production variant of J-20 will be powered by AL-117S engine of Su-35 which has decent thrust ( 14.5 T ) and excellent T/W ratio to power that big fighter , much in line with using AL-31 series for J-10/11/MKK

Probably also an indication what ever they are developing locally i.e J-10 ,J-20 etc are not paying enough ooomp hence the need to import. From Russia pov they would be happy to sell them latest but gen minus export quality stuff and keep check of its own security and earn revenue.

The final outcome of the deal will depend on satisfactory resolution of IPR agreement .... Putin at one recent occasion indirectly without mentioning China said we dont steal like them and pay the full lic fees.


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PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012 11:46 
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Hmmm, every a couple of months, we can heard some news from the Russian side, Chinese shows interest to this or that, blah, blah. :)
Please show some patience and let's wait and see.

I can bet, in the future, China will never buy any Russian fighters with a quantity more than 5 per each model, more likely 2 or 3 and even from a country other than Russia. As you know, for the research purpose only. :roll:

BTW, America also tries to import Russian planes, each time several of them too.

Kartik wrote:
Surprise surprise..the Chinese have expressed an interest in the Su-35 fighters and S-400 Triumph SAMs. No doubts what they will eventually intend to do with those if they do land a contract for them with Russia. And the Russians are even considering the request, it seems. I guess they deserve to be ripped off with reverse engineered Su-35, sorry J-XX Jing Jangs and HQ-XXs.

China requests Su-35 fighter buy


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PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012 13:40 
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take it FWIW...
China's J-15 Has Been Spotted On The Deck Of The Varyag


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PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012 20:31 
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46559385/ns ... nce-space/

China's advances in space unnerve US military leaders

Quote:
Nation is quickly developing technology with indisputable defense applications

By Mike Wall

updated 2/28/2012 2:19:04 PM ET 2012-02-28T19:19:04
Print Font: +-The rise of China's space program may pose a potentially serious military threat to the United States down the road, top American intelligence officials contend.

China continues to develop technology designed to destroy or disable satellites, which makes the United States and other nations with considerable on-orbit assets nervous. Even Beijing's ambitious human spaceflight plans are cause for some concern, since most space-technology advances could have military applications, officials say.

"The space program, including ostensible civil projects, supports China's growing ability to deny or degrade the space assets of potential adversaries and enhances China's conventional military capabilities," Army Lt. Gen. Ronald Burgess, director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, wrote in testimony presented before the U.S. Senate's Armed Services Committee Feb. 16.

Burgess was delivering the DIA's annual assessment of threats to U.S. security and interests around the globe


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China's big space dreams

China has made no secret of its ambitious space goals. In 2003, it became the third nation — after the United States and the Soviet Union — to independently launch a person into orbit.

In November 2011, China successfully docked two robotic spacecraft in Earth orbit, a key step in its quest to have a manned space station up and running by 2020. Beijing also hopes to land an astronaut (called a "taikonaut") on the moon after its planned 60-ton orbital outpost is operational.

This past December, China joined the United States and Russia as the only nations with operational homegrown satellite navigation systems. China's Beidou system — whose name translates as "Big Dipper" — is somewhat rudimentary at the moment, consisting of just 10 satellites and covering a swath of the Asia-Pacific region from Australia in the south to Russia in the north.

However, China envisions a global system with 35 satellites by 2020. The emergence of Beidou should eventually make China far less dependent on the GPS constellation, which is operated by the United States military and is currently the world's dominant satnav network.

Beidou "will enable subscribers outside of China to purchase receivers and services that give civilian and military applications greater redundancy and independence in a conflict scenario that employs space assets," Burgess wrote.

China operates many other satellites, for research, weather monitoring, communications and reconnaissance purposes. But it's tough to know exactly what the nation is getting out of these spacecraft, even the seemingly innocuous ones, according to Burgess.



Quote:
Anti-satellite technology

China is developing some space technology with indisputably military applications. In January 2007, the nation shot down one of its own weather satellites with a missile, spawning thousands of new pieces of space junk.

The test drew strong criticism from the United States and other countries. But China has continued to develop its anti-satellite (ASAT) capabilities in the years since, aided by advances across various sectors of its space program, according to Burgess.

Beijing "is developing jammers and directed-energy weapons for ASAT missions," he wrote. "A prerequisite for ASAT attacks, China's ability to track and identify satellites, is enhanced by technologies from China's manned and lunar programs as well as technologies and methods developed to detect and track space debris."

The United States has long enjoyed playing a dominant role in space, giving the nation the "ultimate high ground" in military conflicts for decades, experts say. ASAT capabilities — whether they're developed by China or other nations — represent a genuine threat to this dominance, Burgess and other analysts contend.

"From the counter-space perspective, Russia and China continue developing systems and technologies that can interfere with or disable vital U.S. space-based navigation, communication, and intelligence collection satellites," Burgess wrote.


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PostPosted: 01 Mar 2012 03:40 
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Dragon planning military offensive in Arunachal, J-K?

Indian experts warn of “major military offensive” from China


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PostPosted: 01 Mar 2012 06:43 
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VinodTK wrote:


I doubt it. It will be an expensive (and prolonged) war for both China and India. For China, it does not make an economic sense as there are no large oil/gas and other materials reserves in that region to justify conducting an expensive war.

This is not 1962; the world is much more integrated economy-wise. It is no longer just going to be isolated to the Himalayas if a war does break out. At the moment, IN can defeat PLAN in the Indian Ocean region. This means IN can effectively block Chinese shipping passing through between Middle East/Africa and China; thus, cutting off large chunks of energy and raw materials from a resource-hungry China.

Here's a bit about IN's role in the Kargil War:
Quote:
...The Indian Navy also prepared to blockade the Pakistani ports (primarily Karachi port) to cut off supply routes. Later, the then-Prime Minister of Pakistan Nawaz Sharif disclosed that Pakistan was left with just six days of fuel to sustain itself if a full-fledged war had broken out....


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PostPosted: 01 Mar 2012 07:59 
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but the dragon has already intruded into some unoccupied areas and MEA/GOI always instructs the IA to let it go.

they could occupy small chunks of many other unoccupied areas using the creeping method.


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PostPosted: 01 Mar 2012 12:48 
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Lot of establishment fellows are there in this "study" Is it Psy war effort? Making it easy to increase fund allotment to defence sector - particularly in NE areas and development of missiles etc.


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PostPosted: 01 Mar 2012 13:09 
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The border states of india adjoining china are several decades behind in any kind development. Much of that region in untouched terrain specifically cultivated for ambush. The massive resource buildup across the chinese border is baffling for indian security. It doesn't make any other sense.


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PostPosted: 01 Mar 2012 22:31 
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From today's Rediff - not exactly a military move but if true, this could be construed as an "act of aggression":

http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/slide-show-1-is-china-behind-drying-up-of-brahmaputra-in-arunachal/20120301.htm

They could be testing the waters, pun intended

Will be interesting to see MEA response


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PostPosted: 02 Mar 2012 01:03 
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Posting link from BR news page. This exercise is taking place while PRC foreign minister is IN India! That is clearly a slap on the face of the CCP! Hope the feelings of the Chinese people aren't hurt :((

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=17313


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PostPosted: 02 Mar 2012 17:15 
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http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/nasa- ... ion-181883

NASA LOSES COMMAND CODES TO CONTROL SPACE STATION:

Washington:  An unencrypted laptop computer stolen from NASA last year contained command codes used to control the International Space Station (ISS), media reports said.

The PC Magazine reported that the March 2011 theft of the computer containing the ISS command algorithms was just one of "5,408 computer security incidents (in 2010 and 2011) that resulted in the installation of malicious software on or unauthorized access to (NASA) systems", the agency's Inspector General Paul Martin informed the US House of Representatives in the letter dated Wednesday.

Other laptops stolen during the period in question contained data related to Orion, the Multi-Purpose Crew Vehicle (MPCV) being built for NASA's future manned spaceflight missions. NASA reported "the loss or theft of 48 Agency mobile computing devices" between April 2009 and April 2011, reported Xinhua.

Such security incidents resulted in losses of more than $7 million. NASA believes some IT security breaches in the past two years originated from amateur hackers and cybercriminals, but that others may have been the work of foreign agents.

NASA has a $1.5 billion annual IT budget, of which approximately $58 million is spent on IT security. But the space agency is behind the curve when it comes to encrypting some of its most vulnerable IT assets, said the magazine.

Federal agencies encrypt about 54 percent of their laptops and other mobile devices on average, but as of Feb 1, 2012, NASA had only encrypted 1 percent of its own mobile systems.

NOW WE KNOW HOW CHINA'S SPACE PROGRAM IS PROGRESSING SO RAPIDLY......oops :wink:


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PostPosted: 02 Mar 2012 17:34 
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tejas wrote:
Posting link from BR news page. This exercise is taking place while PRC foreign minister is IN India! That is clearly a slap on the face of the CCP! Hope the feelings of the Chinese people aren't hurt :((

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=17313


Long overdue and much needed show of strength and just the right amount of symbolism in having the arunchali IAF officer fly the sukhoi in the lead. More such exercises at needed to keep the chinese from believing in their own hype and doing something stupid.


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PostPosted: 02 Mar 2012 19:51 
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The exercise is rich in symbolism. Please note that PRC invaded Vietnam ( I believe in 1978 or 1979) when ABV was visiting as foreign minister. They also detonated a multi megaton nuke when Indian defense minister Venkataraman was visitng ( forgot exact date I think 1990-1991).


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PostPosted: 02 Mar 2012 22:17 
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jamwal wrote:
PratikDas wrote:
Spot on, Shiv ji, regarding the 2nd parcel falling near the soldier's feet.

Also, they won't have portable holes at their convenience in a real battlefield, so if they'd have to grab the explosive and lob it back then they might as well practice that as opposed to banging it down into their own bunker :lol:


Is that drill supposed to increase mental toughness or what ?
Which gun is that and why is that officer firing in air just like in a Paki wedding ? Isn't that dangerous, even in a firing range ? Some buildings are seem like they are only less than 100m away from where they are shooting.


I have a question - "Is he actually firing the gun, or are the sounds added later?" I mean, except for a camera shot at approx 1:50, everytime you hear the sound of a gun fire, it is conveniently hidden behind some soldier! Now it might just be me imagining things, but even when the gun is partially visible during the sound effects, there is just no sign of a recoil, or even spent cartridges falling out.

Request if some guru can have a relook at the video (incl the firing at 1:50 mark) and put my mind at ease :?:


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PostPosted: 04 Mar 2012 20:20 
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China hikes defence budget to USD 106.4 billion
Quote:
:
:
China, which has the world's largest standing army of 2.3 million, had been hiking its defence budget by double-digits during most part of the last decade. Analysts believe its actual spending is much higher than the official figures.

Last year, the country unveiled its first aircraft carrier, a former Soviet-era vessel which is expected to enhance the reach of the Chinese navy.

According to the officials figures, China had spent about USD 92 billion on defence last year, which represented a 12.7% increase over the 2010 budget of USD 77 billion. This year's increase would represent a hike of USD 14.4 billion.

Besides, the specified military spending, which many western analysts say is far higher than the official version, China last year spent over USD 100 billion on internal security.

Analysts say the hike in China's defence budget, which is now almost triple of the Indian defence spending, may impact New Delhi's military expenditure.
:
:


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PostPosted: 05 Mar 2012 19:22 
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Chinese Mobile ICBMs Seen in Central China

FWIW - China Secretly Seeks The High Ground


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PostPosted: 06 Mar 2012 05:38 
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The biggest threat from China is indeed not for Land, Air or Sea - it is over the wire and space.

Enter the cyber dragon
Quote:
However, instead of the present Indian Computer Emergency Response Team (Cert-In) which is the primary referral agency of India’s cyber response options, New Delhi, should take immediate steps and put in effect a full-fledged cyber command that is designed to prevent hacking of computer networks and siphoning of strategic data stored in information systems.



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PostPosted: 06 Mar 2012 06:10 
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http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 155113.cms


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PostPosted: 06 Mar 2012 09:32 
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Russia Close to Sign Su-35 Fighter Deal With China

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Russia and China may soon sign a $4-bln contract on the delivery of 48 Sukhoi Su-35 Flanker-E fighter jets to the Chinese air force, Russia’s Kommersant business daily said on Tuesday.

“The sides have practically agreed on the delivery of 48 Su-35 multirole fighters, worth $4 billion, to China,” Kommersant said citing a source in the Russian defense industry.

According to the paper, the only obstacle remaining is Moscow’s demand that Beijing should guarantee the protection of copyrights on the production of Su-35s without proper licensing.

“Moscow is not only aiming to ensure its presence on the Chinese [combat aircraft] market, but also attempting to prevent the potential copycat production of Russian aircraft for subsequent sales to third parties with predatory pricing,” a Russian government source told Kommesant.


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PostPosted: 06 Mar 2012 10:05 
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good luck to the russians trying to enforce copyright.

this indicates their cloned J-11 is not all that good. because if it were adequate they'd just produce more of it with local engines and radar.


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PostPosted: 06 Mar 2012 12:55 
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From what I could gather on the whole reverse engineer story from Russian/Western sources.

The Chinese only managed to reverse engineer the original Flanker which was sold to them in early 90's which is Su-27SK including the FBW , although there are many news snippet out there which claims the quality of reverse engineered J-11 is poor even when compared to original Su-27SK.

They could not reverse engineer the Su-30MKK nor could they do with AL-31 engine , reason they still import the engine in big number for J-10 and MKK.

WS-10 has been a poor substitute for AL-31 lacking in quality and life time of the latter and still not widely adopted or would perhaps never be , its admittedly a failure even when compared to basic AL-31 specs something chinese would never admit it , but a good way to find out is how many AL-31 they keep importing every year and the deal is always close to billion $ , it seems metallurgy , composition ,multilayer coating , hot parts for engine are the most hardest to reverse engineer for any body even if some one tries that the result as always less then optimum.

The Su-35 is not just another update of earlier flanker considering the time Sukhoi took to flight test the Flanker now in its 4th year first flight in feb 2008 , so it will be much harder to reverse engineer and duplicate things , not worth the time and money when you can simply lic it and the Russian would make that much more harder since Chinese have known habit to copy if this deal goes through ...which remains to be seen.


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PostPosted: 06 Mar 2012 13:05 
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Austin wrote:
Russia Close to Sign Su-35 Fighter Deal With China

Quote:
Russia and China may soon sign a $4-bln contract on the delivery of 48 Sukhoi Su-35 Flanker-E fighter jets to the Chinese air force, Russia’s Kommersant business daily said on Tuesday.

“The sides have practically agreed on the delivery of 48 Su-35 multirole fighters, worth $4 billion, to China,” Kommersant said citing a source in the Russian defense industry.

According to the paper, the only obstacle remaining is Moscow’s demand that Beijing should guarantee the protection of copyrights on the production of Su-35s without proper licensing.

“Moscow is not only aiming to ensure its presence on the Chinese [combat aircraft] market, but also attempting to prevent the potential copycat production of Russian aircraft for subsequent sales to third parties with predatory pricing,” a Russian government source told Kommesant.


How do plan to counter these as the SU-35's will be superior to our SU-30 Mki's?


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PostPosted: 06 Mar 2012 13:34 
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Aditya_V wrote:
How do plan to counter these as the SU-35's will be superior to our SU-30 Mki's?


No one system no matter how superior it is will be a game changer , it will boil down to many systems , training , equipment/logistics ,integrated IADS and ability to innovate in thick of war will we see one getting better then the other.

IAF does seem to have advantage in areas such as training/tactics since it has been exercising with many AF of the world in past 10 years and has good exposure to western training , tactics and can innovate , the MKI and Rafale will on an average will be superior to most deployed types fighter of PLAAF . PLAAF on the other hand has much better integrated IADS and perhaps numbers of most deployed 4th gen fighter where number would end up having its own quality , considering most types will be indiginous it would be an advantage if it leads to war of attrition.


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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2012 05:07 
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The Chinese Military’s Great Leap Forward
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Ironically, China’s best efforts to increase its security by developing powerful military capabilities and asserting its interests more vigorously may only render its leaders more insecure. Other Asian countries are moving closer to the United States, and each other, to balance growing Chinese power. President Barack Obama is reorienting the United States’ military posture away from Europe and the Middle East in ways that reinforce, rather than diminish, the U.S. leadership role in Asia. Resentment of the uses and abuses of Chinese power has also spilled over into the economic realm: Western businesses are no longer the cheerleaders for China they once were as concerns over economic piracy, currency manipulation, forced technology transfer, and the role of the state in the Chinese economy come to the fore.


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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2012 17:22 
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Chinese MOD denies Su-35 deal news

China has denied the possibility of purchasing Sukhoi Su-35

Quote:
"Media reports that China and Russia reached agreement on the purchase by China 48 Su-35 are without factual basis," - said in a written reply to China's Ministry of Defence.

In this case the Ministry of Defence of China praised by the military-technical ties between the two countries, stressing that the "military-technical cooperation between China and Russia is an important part of the strategic partnership between the two countries, it is steadily growing and producing results."

The relationship of strategic partnership between China and Russia have developed steadily, the parties are actively cooperating in various fields, achieving good results in the release notes.


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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2012 18:16 
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Austin wrote:


Like I said, why spend money on 4th generation aircrafts like SU-35, rafale, or Euro Fighter when the next 5th generation is right around the corner ? Besides the stuff the Chinese are developing is better than any SU-35 counterpart. However it would be usefull in an aggressor role since its tech is an advance version of MKI. 8)

It kinda reminds me when the Russian said the MMRCA is going to be cancelled because its too expensive. The fact is the Russians says lots of things. :D

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/ ... ompetition

Quote:
India May Cancel Fighter Competition

Dec 6, 2011

By Leithen Francis

LANGKAWI, Malaysia — Victor Komardin, the deputy director of Russia’s arms export agency Rosoboronexport, contends that the two short-listed candidates for India’s Medium Multirole Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) competition have effectively ruled themselves out by putting too high a price on their fighters.


Quote:
“Against the backdrop of the [financial] crisis [sweeping the world], it is hard to see how any government would allow such a waste of money, particularly when there are social problems” to deal with, Komardin says. “And there is no imminent threat to India’s [sovereignty]. My prediction is that this tender will be canceled.” Komardin spoke to Aviation Week on the sidelines of the LIMA Airshow in Langkawi, Malaysia




or this story from 2008 about China buying SU-33
Quote:
Oct. 30, 2008Print | E-mail | Home China Ready to Buy Su-33 Shipboard Fighters in Russia



http://www.kommersant.com/p-13476/China_Su-33/


Last edited by Don on 09 Mar 2012 21:02, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2012 19:31 
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BRFite

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I think that they do want this deal to go public and are trying to downplay this incident.


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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2012 21:16 
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BRFite

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China's 1st aircraft carrier to be deployed in August

Quote:
The military authority plans to let the aircraft carrier be commissioned this year," Deputy Commander of Chinese navy Xu Hongmeng said.


-Ankit


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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2012 23:51 
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BRF Oldie

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Don wrote:
Like I said, why spend money on 4th generation aircrafts like SU-35, rafale, or Euro Fighter when the next 5th generation is right around the corner ? Besides the stuff the Chinese are developing is better than any SU-35 counterpart. However it would be usefull in an aggressor role since its tech is an advance version of MKI. 8)


Better then Su-35 , Rafale etc is very much debatable unless Chinese can put these so call 5th Gen fighter into production and prove competing with the rest of other 5th Gen fighter and win some customers. Its more of a question of credibility viz a viz established names , ofcourse the chinese can always this is better then those flying there but such claims will lack credibility unless backed by substance , we still dont know how good the J-10 is till date.

Quote:
China buying SU-33
Oct. 30, 2008Print | E-mail | Home China Ready to Buy Su-33 Shipboard Fighters in Russia
http://www.kommersant.com/p-13476/China_Su-33


Every one who follows the Su-33 offer knows that the deal fell through because Chinese just wanted to buy it in single digit numbers and Russians were insisting they buy in 40-50 odd numbers , needless to say the single digit buy was just to reverse engineer it , the chinese then took one prototype from Ukraine and tried to engineer the Su-33 and built one or more then one prototype.


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PostPosted: 10 Mar 2012 10:47 
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Aditya_V wrote:
How do plan to counter these as the SU-35's will be superior to our SU-30 Mki's?


Apart from what Austin has said previously, I think this Chinese buy (if it goes through) is a good indication that the Su-30MKIs will get upgrades that will top the Su-35. IIRC the development/introduction time line was something like this:

1993-1997: Su-35 and Su-37 (TVC+NO11) - clear improvements over Su-27SK and the Su-30

1999: Su-30MKI - improvements over 35 and 37 by combining best of both.

2004-5: Introduction of Irbis and 3D tvc

2008-10: Su-35BM - improvements over MKI based innovations including IRBIS, and additional composites, and 3D TVC

2012-15: Su-30MKI.2 - improvements over Su-35 by including stealth features, better EW suite, and radar - either Bars with the 20kw TWT OR Pakfa based AESA.

All in all, it will be very difficult to determine a clear cut superiority for the Su-35 vs. an upgraded MKI, esp. when considering that there is also the Rafale to further mix it up. And then there is the Pakfa. So, while a systems approach provides a better understanding (as Austin suggested), individual platformwise too, the IAF still will maintain an edge.

A LOT will also depend upon the success of homegrown projects though because it is the latter that will truly enable the IAF to get the numbers required to keep the Chi-Pak duo in check. Success in LCA and AMCA is a MUST.


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