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PostPosted: 01 Mar 2012 08:45 
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atma wrote:
chackojoseph wrote:


You probably mean "Collision"


Well the two ships colluded with each other to come into forceful physical contact at sea no? It may reek of conspiracy to you but conspiracies are possible. :D


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PostPosted: 01 Mar 2012 09:10 
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Philip wrote:
Quite true,we'll soon have a massive queue in our courts of murderers all quoting from the "Italian" deal,wanting to get off for a few paltry rupees.The Kerala people should physically if need be,resist this insidious "Roman" version of the Saudi Sharia finding its way into Indian legal practice,by surrounding the vessel and preventing it from ever leaving Indian waters.


[off topic] Philip, people can still get away with murder in India if they have enough money and power.

And here we are talking about million dollar out-of-court settlement and whole Italian Gov pressure. Remember Purulia weapon drop case.

Lets not attach nation's pride with this case.

P.S. I am not saying this is good, but stating what can be an obvious outcome of current events.


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PostPosted: 01 Mar 2012 09:24 
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Sid,true.However,if we are always seen as a soft state,compromising in incidents like this,our ability to walk the talk in international disputes and fora will be severely diminished.Look at the way in which even the US has denied the release of Jonathan Pollard,who spied for Israel.Pollard has recd. massive support from various Israeli govts.,Jewish organisations in the US,streets have been named after him inIsrael, but the US govt. has not budged an inch and Pollard still serves his term of Life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard

Xcpts:
Quote:
In addition to the release requests by the Israeli government, there has been a long running public campaign to free Pollard. The organizers include the Pollard family, his ex-wife, Anne, and Jewish groups in the US and Israel. The campaign's main points claim that Pollard spied for an ally instead of an enemy, that his sentence was out of proportion when compared to similar crimes, and that the US failed to live up to its plea bargain.[54][55] Some Israeli activists compared President Bush to Hamas and Hezbollah leaders who have taken Israeli soldiers prisoner.[56][57]
[edit] Pro-Pollard efforts
An Israeli billboard comparing former US President Bush to Hamas and Hezbollah leaders Ismail Haniyah and Hassan Nasrallah (shown left and right of Bush respectively). The people in blue text were taken prisoner by these groups. Bush is shown above Pollard's name, in red.

Pollard's supporters argue that his sentence was excessive. Although Pollard pleaded guilty as part of a plea bargain for himself and his wife, he was shown no leniency and was given the maximum sentence with the exception of death, because he allegedly broke the terms of that plea agreement even before the sentence was handed down.[58]

The issue of his imprisonment has sometimes arisen amidst Israeli domestic politics.[59] Benjamin Netanyahu has been particularly vocal in lobbying for Pollard's release, visiting Pollard in prison in 2002.[3][60] Netanyahu raised the issue with President Bill Clinton during the Wye River peace talks in 1998.[61] In his autobiography, Clinton wrote that he was inclined to release Pollard, but the objections of U.S. intelligence officials was too strong:

For all the sympathy Pollard generated in Israel, he was a hard case to push in America; he had sold our country's secrets for money, not conviction, and for years had not shown any remorse. When I talked to Sandy Berger and George Tenet, they were adamantly opposed to letting Pollard go, as was Madeleine Albright.[62]

Alan Dershowitz has been among Pollard's high-profile supporters, both in the courtroom as a lawyer and in various print media. Characterizing the sentence as "excessive," Dershowitz writes in an article reprinted in his bestselling book Chutzpah!, "As an American, and as a Jew, I hereby express my outrage at Jonathan Pollard's sentence of life imprisonment for the crime to which he pleaded guilty."[63] Dershowitz writes:

[E]veryone seems frightened to speak up on behalf of a convicted spy. This has been especially true of the Jewish leadership in America. The Pollards are Jewish... The Pollards are also Zionists, who--out of a sense of misguided "racial imperative" (to quote Jonathan Pollard)--seem to place their commitment to Israeli survival over the laws of their own country... American Jewish leaders, always sensitive to the canard of dual loyalty, are keeping a low profile in the Pollard matter. Many American Jews at the grass roots are outraged at what they perceive to be an overreaction to the Pollards' crimes and the unusually long sentence imposed on Jonathan Pollard.[63]

The Jerusalem City Council has also acted in support of Pollard, changing the name of a square near the official prime minister's residence from Paris Square to Freedom for Jonathan Pollard Square.[64]

Pollard has at times claimed that he provided only information that, at the time, he believed was vital to Israeli security and that was being withheld by the Pentagon, in violation of a 1983 Memorandum of Understanding between the two countries regarding the sharing of vital security intelligence. According to Pollard, this included data on Soviet arms shipments to Syria, Iraqi and Syrian chemical weapons, the Pakistani atomic bomb project, and Libyan air defense systems.[65]
[edit] Official requests for clemency

Yitzhak Rabin was the first Israeli prime minister to ask for the release of Pollard, requesting US President Bill Clinton to pardon him in 1995.[66] Among the many requests for Pollard's release was one at the 1998 Wye River conference, where Netanyahu recalls, "if we signed an agreement with Arafat, I expected a pardon for Pollard".[1][28] Of his meeting with Netanyahu during the Wye River talks, Bill Clinton writes, "Netanyahu was threatening to scuttle the whole deal unless I released Pollard. He said I had promised him I would do so at an earlier meeting the night before, and that's why he had agreed on the other issues. In fact, I had told the prime minister that if that's what it took to make peace, I was inclined to do it, but I would have to check with our people."[62] Clinton states that Madeleine Albright, Sandy Berger, and George Tenet were all "adamantly opposed" to letting Pollard out of prison.[62]

Another Israeli request for Pollard's release was made in New York on September 14, 2005 and was declined by President George W. Bush. A request on Pollard's behalf that he be designated a Prisoner of Zion was rejected by the High Court of Justice of Israel on January 16, 2006. Another appeal for intervention on Pollard's behalf was rejected by the High Court on June 8, 2006.

On January 10, 2008, the subject of Pollard's pardon was again brought up for discussion, this time by Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, during President George W. Bush's first visit to Israel as President. Subsequently, this request was turned down by President Bush. The next day, at a dinner attended by several ministers in the Israeli government (in addition to U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice), the subject of Pollard's release was again discussed. This time however, Prime Minister Olmert commented that it was not the appropriate occasion to discuss the fate of the convicted Israeli spy.[67]

As President Bush was about to leave office in 2009, Pollard himself requested clemency for the first time. In an interview in Newsweek former CIA director James Woolsey endorsed Pollard's release on two conditions: that he show contrition and decline any profits from books or other projects linked to the case. Bush did not pardon him.[68]

The New York Times reported on 21 September 2010 that the Israeli government (again under Netanyahu) informally proposed that Pollard be released as a reward to Israel for extending by three months a halt to new settlements in occupied territories.[69]

In 2010 representatives Barney Frank (D-Mass.), Edolphus Towns (D-N.Y.), Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.) and Bill Pascrell (D-N.J.) wrote a letter which "notes the positive impact that a grant of clemency would have in Israel, as a strong indication of the goodwill of our nation towards Israel and the Israeli people",[70] On November 18, 2010, 39 members of Congress submitted a Plea Of Clemency to the White House on behalf of Pollard, asking the president for his immediate release: "Such an exercise of the clemency power would not in any way imply doubt about his guilt, nor cast any aspersions on the process by which he was convicted."[71]

On December 21, 2010, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said he would formally and publicly call for Pollard's release.[72] This was the first formal request made by Israel. On January 4, 2011 Netanyahu formally submitted a letter to President Obama requesting clemency. The White House issued a statement saying the letter would be reviewed.

Henry Kissinger, former U.S. Secretary of State, wrote in a letter to Barack Obama, "I believe justice would be served by commuting."[73]

Lawrence Korb, former assistant secretary of defense under Ronald Reagan, has called on the Obama Administration to grant clemency to Polard:

Some now argue that Pollard should be released because it would improve US-Israeli relations and enhance the prospects of success of the Obama administration’s Middle East peace process. Although that may be true, it is not the reason I and many others have recently written to the president requesting that he grant Pollard clemency. The reason is that Pollard has already served far too long for the crime for which he was convicted, and by now, whatever facts he might know would have little effect on national security.[74]

In August 2011 Barney Frank sought permission from Congress to discuss the incarceration of Jonathan Pollard and called on Barack Obama to "answer the many calls for Pollard's immediate release." According to activists promoting the release of Pollard, Frank said Pollard has paid a price much higher than anyone else that spied on a friend of the United States and more than many who spied for its enemies.[75]

At the 1998 Wye River Conference, Benjamin Netanyahu demanded Pollard's release, and President Clinton made a public statement about reviewing the case.[62] This precipitated an "incredulous" reaction in the American intelligence community.[76] Former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, as well as six other former U.S. Secretaries of Defense (Melvin R. Laird, Frank C. Carlucci, Richard B. Cheney, Caspar W. Weinberger, James R. Schlesinger and Elliot L. Richardson) spoke out in opposition to clemency for Jonathan Pollard.[44] They were joined by several senior congressional leaders.[44]

Four past directors of Naval Intelligence, William Studeman, Sumner Shapiro, John L. Butts, and Thomas Brooks, authored a response to the talk of clemency and what they termed "the myths that have arisen from this clever public relations campaign... aimed at transforming Pollard from greedy, arrogant betrayer of the American national trust into Pollard, committed Israeli patriot".[77] They asserted that Pollard passed information to three other countries before engaging in espionage activity on behalf of Israel, and that he had offered his services to a fourth country while he was spying for Israel.[78]


With that amount of pressure upon the US govt. from Israel and the jewish lobby,and it still has not budged,why on earth should India compromise in this instance? We owe Italy no favours (that is if you discount their "gift" of SG to us!) and need not buckle under to pressure from an EU state on the verge of bankruptcy.


The "collusion":
"Unknown merchant vessel". The waters off our western coast esp. the Kerala coast is becoming very dangerous given the amount of international traffic on the high seas and coastal traffic.Monitoring them is a massive task.A media report today showed a pic of the surveillance radar now being fitted to all our lighthouses to monitor all shipping,fishing boats,etc.,within a 20km (NM?) range.

The sooner we start to install RFIDs on every fishing boat ,the easier it will be to monitor the high seas and our extremely porous coastline.

PS: The Pollard case highlights the fact,as I've highlighted in the quotes,that the US as far back as 1983 knew about Pak's N-bomb project and were denying the Israelis details,most probably because they thought that the Israelis would tip India off! It exposes the enormous duplicity of the US which knew about Pak's N-bomb all along,kept quiet and who are we to know if it actually assisted Pak in acquiring N-weapons to counter India as it was a key US Cold War ally! This may be the hidden secret between Pak and the US which is why the US always hesitates to punish Pak despite its perfidious behaviour in Af-Pak. Any revelation by pak that the US secretly helped it to acquire N-weapons would expose US hypocrisy and duplicity and dramatically see many nations with N-ambitions,like Iran,to accelerate their programmes .


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PostPosted: 01 Mar 2012 09:54 
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atma wrote:
chackojoseph wrote:


You probably mean "Collision"


:lol: Spell demon hits again. IMO, this is third in a week. Will work on this.


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PostPosted: 01 Mar 2012 11:00 
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chackojoseph wrote:
quote="atma"]
chackojoseph wrote:
Coast Guard and Navy in SAR after ship collusion/quote]

You probably mean "Collision"


:lol: Spell demon hits again. IMO, this is third in a week. Will work on this.


Looks like we should force International Shipping going to Singapore to stay at least 200 miles of the Indian coast.

Since they have armed guards they can protect their ships.


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PostPosted: 01 Mar 2012 11:04 
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Location: "There is no greater weapon than a prepared mind."
Thats what happens when you type in a hurry


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PostPosted: 01 Mar 2012 16:37 
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Chakra left Russian waters early on 21st February. Expect her in Vizag around 25th March.


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PostPosted: 01 Mar 2012 18:24 
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The recent issues related to shooting of innocent fisherman and collision of fishing boat with tanker is due to the failure of UPA govt in preventing piracy. The govt did not take a pro-active approach to eliminate the pirates. They took a defensive stance and was asking the pirates to surrender and throw their guns into the ocean. The only way piracy can be tackled is by eliminating the pirates along with their ships. This is to be followed by hitting them in Somalia at times we like. This can end Piracy. If laws need to be made to proclaim Piracy as terrorism or whatever so be it. Let there be laws passed by the Parliament to take on Piracy and pirates and their complete elimination. And this law need to be enforced all over the Indian ocean by IN and ICG. The incompetent govt is not only allowing the piracy to spread and create panic in the Indian ocean but also making ships to travel close to Indian shores, resulting in the death of innocent fisherman. And above all the attempt being made to release the Italians arrested for shooting dead two Indian fisherman says all about the incompetence and irresponsibility of many in the government. :evil: Those who attempt or rescue the Italian murderers need be they politicians or bureaucracy need to be exposed and punished.


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PostPosted: 01 Mar 2012 19:15 
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^^ and how do you know who is a pirate from a local fisherman till you board each boat to verify? am sure gone are the days when they hoisted jolly roger and sang yo ho ho and a bottle of rum...!!


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PostPosted: 01 Mar 2012 19:30 
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There are many signs. And if they play Gandhi and did not return fire to provocation, board them, search them. then.....
There are many ways of dealing with Pirates.
Here is one video. But one Moron put it with the caption
Somali pirates killed by Russian Navy where is the world?

Now the comment section has this to say.
basic guidline for somali pirates on enemie naval forces:

1 European navy: will let you life and give you an education

2 American navy: will blow up everything around you in a dramatic fashion

3 Russian navy: will castrate and kill you and your whole family

RESULT: Don't ****** with the Russians


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PostPosted: 01 Mar 2012 21:01 
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uddu wrote:
basic guidline for somali pirates on enemie naval forces:

1 European navy: will let you life and give you an education

2 American navy: will blow up everything around you in a dramatic fashion

3 Russian navy: will castrate and kill you and your whole family

RESULT: Don't ****** with the Russians



:rotfl: :rotfl:


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PostPosted: 01 Mar 2012 22:58 
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chackojoseph wrote:


Recd an update and added it.


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PostPosted: 01 Mar 2012 23:19 
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MiG-29K's to join Russian Navy
The relevant part is, they will replace Su-33 with them. :)


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PostPosted: 02 Mar 2012 00:26 
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This augurs well for the future development of the MIG-29K,as there will be inevitable upgrades in the future,with the aircraft serving in both the IN and RuN,until the naval variant of the FGFA/T-50 arrives.India will not be the only operator and one may see a few other nations also wanting the aircraft in either naval or regular air force versions.It is also a moment of quiet satisfaction for the IN to see Russia following their example in plumping for the Russian aircraft first! The effect of a TVC version should be examined as in both Russia and in India,land based ski-jumps are/have been set up for testing and training of pilots.


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PostPosted: 02 Mar 2012 00:58 
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This also establishes IMO the advantage of Mig 29K over Su33. The latter though having a better range and load cannot be utilized to its fullest capability when lunched from an AC. The Mig OTOH is a perfect balance of size and capability offering several modern technologies at a very competitive price.

IN's choice of the MiG was a very risky investment, however it is now established in sorts that the decision in itself is a worthy alternative and Russians themselves now acknowledge its validity by this purchase.


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PostPosted: 02 Mar 2012 06:07 
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ndian navy purchasing 9 more recon planes
Quote:
Published: March. 1, 2012 at 5:11 PM

NEW DELHI, March 1 (UPI) -- The Indian government has allocated its navy funds to buy an additional nine mid-range reconnaissance airplanes for nearly $1 billion.

The new aircraft will assist in maintaining India's Indian Ocean security and supplement the Indian navy's earlier order of P-8I Poseidon long-range reconnaissance airplanes from U.S. defense manufacturer Boeing.

The tender for the new aircraft is being sought by not only by Boeing and U.S. defense contractor Lockheed Martin, but Sweden's Saab, France's Dassault Aviation, Brazil's Embraer and European concern EADS, Web site navaltoday.com reported.

India's military specifications demand the new aircraft must carry missiles and torpedoes capable of destroying both surface ships and submarines and have a minimum flight range of the airplanes of 400 miles. The range of Boeing's P-8I is in excess of 1,250 miles.

In 2008 India signed an initial procurement contract with Boeing for eight P-8I Poseidon airplanes worth $2.1 billion, with another contract for an additional four P-8Is expected to be signed this month, as India intends to increase its fleet of Poseidon P-81 patrol aircraft to 24 in total.


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PostPosted: 02 Mar 2012 08:02 
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An inkling of the confusion within Britain over its future carriers and expensive JSF aircraft to equip them,and the costs of such naval ambitions for the Brits.A comparison with the same of the IN's carrier ambitions and cost should be made as well.There are lessons to be drawn from both naval forces' plans for our future carrier task force ambitions.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/mar/0 ... ke-fighter
Quote:
Defence officials said that the government was "re-assessing" its earlier decision because, they indicated, of pressures on the defence budget.

HMS Queen Elizabeth, the first carrier, will be mothballed immediately it is launched in 2016, according to existing plans. The second, HMS Prince of Wales, will be able to put to sea by 2020, but it is not known how many planes will be able to fly from it – nor what kind.

The two carriers, originally priced at £3.5bn, are now estimated to cost £6.2bn. According to the Commons public accounts committee, the cost is likely to nto as much as £12bn.

The government, which originally said it wanted more than 100 joint strike fighters, says that it will have just six operational ones by 2020. The unit cost of the joint strike fighter, made by Lockheed Martin, has soared because of production problems and delays caused by US defence budget cuts. Britain's BAE Systems and Rolls-Royce have big stakes in a future deal adapting the joint strike fighter for British forces.

A spokesperson for the MoD said: "We are currently finalising the 2012-13 budget and balancing the equipment plan. As part of this process, we are reviewing all programmes, including elements of the carrier strike programme, to validate costs and ensure risks are properly managed. The defence secretary expects to announce the outcome of this process to parliament before Easter."

Related

16 Nov 2011

Harrier fleet sold to US military

29 Sep 2011

Reality check for defence industry

29 Nov 2011

MPs warn Royal Navy's carriers will be costly, late, and of limited use

24 Nov 2011



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PostPosted: 02 Mar 2012 08:31 
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At a cost of 12-billion pounds, and the additional cost of teething, etc.

The british should have bought two Nimitz class from their ally, and it would have cost them ~$10 billion for both, with no delays, and a much bigger air contingent with it.


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PostPosted: 02 Mar 2012 11:01 
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A K Antony will hand over (TAL) indigenous Lightweight Advance Torpedo to the Indian navy on tomorrow. Its specifications as per chindit:

‘TAL’ TORPEDO

The Light Weight Torpedo has been indigenously developed by the National Science and Technology Laboratory (NSTL), Visakhapatnam.

The Light Weight Torpedo (TAL) is an electrically propelled, self- homing Torpedo which can be launched both from ships and helicopters. It can hunt submarines with a speed of 33 knots with endurance of six minutes in shallow and deep waters. The Torpedo weighs around 220 kgs. BDL is manufacturing these Torpedoes at its Visakhapatnam Unit. :)

For air launch which platform IN will use for these TORPEDO... :?:


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PostPosted: 02 Mar 2012 11:32 
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How good is this Torpedo? Any news of Tech information?


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PostPosted: 02 Mar 2012 12:06 
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koti wrote:
MiG-29K's to join Russian Navy
The relevant part is, they will replace Su-33 with them. :)


Superb, is the Russian have the aircraft in service it will make sure the Logistics and spare parts do not become too much of an issue.


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PostPosted: 02 Mar 2012 12:07 
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keshavchandra wrote:
A K Antony will hand over (TAL) indigenous Lightweight Advance Torpedo to the Indian navy on tomorrow. Its specifications as per chindit:

‘TAL’ TORPEDO

The Light Weight Torpedo has been indigenously developed by the National Science and Technology Laboratory (NSTL), Visakhapatnam.

The Light Weight Torpedo (TAL) is an electrically propelled, self- homing Torpedo which can be launched both from ships and helicopters. It can hunt submarines with a speed of 33 knots with endurance of six minutes in shallow and deep waters. The Torpedo weighs around 220 kgs. BDL is manufacturing these Torpedoes at its Visakhapatnam Unit. :)

For air launch which platform IN will use for these TORPEDO... :?:


Does that mean its maximum range is 3.3 knots ~ 6Kms? Anuke sub can outrun it and a conventional sub 4km away with max speed to 15 knots submerged can hope to outrun it.

But I guess its 220KG overall weight means small ships, aircraft and Helicopters can easily carry this a payload and the last 2 can drop it on top of the submerged sub.


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PostPosted: 02 Mar 2012 12:23 
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Aditya_V wrote:
Does that mean its maximum range is 3.3 knots ~ 6Kms? Anuke sub can outrun it and a conventional sub 4km away with max speed to 15 knots submerged can hope to outrun it.


AFAIK a light torpedo will never be used in sub to sub action unless they manage to come extremely close and head on, in which case the outrunning issue will not arise. If the victim sub is in a tail on phase, there is no point using a light Torpedo as med Torpedos will be employed.

I think Kilo or Foxtrot subs carry only standard torpedos of 533mm.
Anyway, TAL will be primarily used by ASW Helos, and the range IMO is quite adequate given this.


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PostPosted: 02 Mar 2012 12:27 
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I meant if fired against a conventional sub 4 km away.


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PostPosted: 02 Mar 2012 12:58 
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I was just seeing the Pics in the presidential fleet review link and I didn't find any RBU-1200 or torpedo tubes on INS Agray which is supposed to be a Pauk Class Anti Submarine Corvette. :eek:

Image

Can some Guru's throw some light? When did IN decide to turn a Pauk Class Corvette into a patrol craft? :?: :?:


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PostPosted: 02 Mar 2012 15:19 
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Philip wrote:
This augurs well for the future development of the MIG-29K,as there will be inevitable upgrades in the future,with the aircraft serving in both the IN and RuN,until the naval variant of the FGFA/T-50 arrives.India will not be the only operator and one may see a few other nations also wanting the aircraft in either naval or regular air force versions.It is also a moment of quiet satisfaction for the IN to see Russia following their example in plumping for the Russian aircraft first! The effect of a TVC version should be examined as in both Russia and in India,land based ski-jumps are/have been set up for testing and training of pilots.


Philip,
Can a TVC used for a carrier take-off ? Would it not burn the flight deck ? Has it been done anywhere before ?

K


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PostPosted: 02 Mar 2012 15:32 
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Kersi D wrote:
Can a TVC used for a carrier take-off ? Would it not burn the flight deck ? Has it been done anywhere before ?

K


Harrier :D


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PostPosted: 02 Mar 2012 16:01 
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Kersi D wrote:
Would it not burn the flight deck ?

Won't the nozzles be pointing upwards during take-off? Pointing in the same direction as the elevators.


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PostPosted: 02 Mar 2012 16:42 
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Also I think by the F-35B if I am not wrong


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PostPosted: 02 Mar 2012 16:52 
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There is a huge amount of data about the Harrier's unique "VIFFing" ability (vectoring in forward flight),giving it unparalleled dogfighting advantage.The Harrier actually has one of the best air-to-air combat records-I do't think a single Harrier has been lost in air combat at all.
The VSTOL system is ideally the best for carrier ops,which i why the UK govt. prefers this system instead of cats.There have been some posts earlier about "relative recovery",where a STOVL aircraft can approach the deck at any angle to the carrier,making it a very simple and tension free exercise when recovering aircraft,landing vertically.The enprmous cost of installing steam cats/EMALS,which also require aditional power/more pwoerful powerplants,adds to bilions. I think the quoted figure I gave earlier was $1.6 for the UK carriers.

Though the STOVL version of the JSF would have a lesser weaponload/capablities than the CTOL version,in my opinion,it is fully worth it.In fact,this is the only version of the JSF that one would buy even at a very high cost. The USMC require hundreds of this version for their amphibious carriers to replace their Harriers,and they made a huge bargain by buying all the 70+ UK GR Harriers stupidly retired early,lock,stock and barrel at throwaway prices.(The IN should've at least acquired a dozen of them to have kept our small number aloft until the end of the decade.I think that there are still some Sea Harriers available.)


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PostPosted: 02 Mar 2012 17:11 
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shiv wrote:
Kersi D wrote:
Can a TVC used for a carrier take-off ? Would it not burn the flight deck ? Has it been done anywhere before ?

K


Harrier :D


OOooooppppssss.

I really forgot the Harrier !!! I am getting old !!!

K


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PostPosted: 02 Mar 2012 18:57 
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shiv wrote:
Kersi D wrote:
Can a TVC used for a carrier take-off ? Would it not burn the flight deck ? Has it been done anywhere before ?

K


Harrier :D


Yakovlev Yak-38 as well


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PostPosted: 02 Mar 2012 20:38 
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And the V-22 Osprey is in service with the US Navy on small carriers.


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PostPosted: 02 Mar 2012 20:45 
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shiv, Osprey is technically not a TVC. They tilt the entire engine. I don't think can vector-control the wash of propeller. :)


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PostPosted: 02 Mar 2012 21:23 
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JTull wrote:
shiv, Osprey is technically not a TVC. They tilt the entire engine. I don't think can vector-control the wash of propeller. :)

Technically it is thrust vectoring. Having said that the externally "blown flaps" of the C-17 are also thrust vectoring which is vector control of the wash of the engines. Semantics more than traditional terminology


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PostPosted: 02 Mar 2012 21:50 
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Location: havildar-major, 1st JSOC munna detachment.
harrier has never had to undertake air combat against competent enemies loaded for a2a with good radar. its sole claim to fame being bagging a few argentine etendards loaded with bombs and at limit of their range.

a well handled M2K/Mig29 with good radar and aam combo will probably make short work of the famous RAF sea harrier with sea vixen radar and amraam. they will launch from superior height and speed to max the advantage and retain far greater energy.


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PostPosted: 02 Mar 2012 22:13 
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book written by RN harrier pilot who was shot down over yugoslavia talks about DACT with Luftwaffe Mig29's - the sea harriers (non BVR model) got their musharraf's handed to them on a platter during training over Sardinia

viffing is a mixed blessing, the loss of energy could be a problem


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PostPosted: 02 Mar 2012 22:40 
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What the Armed Forces Expect from DRDO? By Admiral Arun Prakash

I didn't see this article posted here, great read.


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PostPosted: 02 Mar 2012 22:51 
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Location: Frontier India : Nemo me impune lacessit
Indian Naval Ship Sarvekshak to locate sunken Fishing Vessel


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PostPosted: 02 Mar 2012 23:08 
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koti wrote:


1) I am not too sure why a Russian Naval news item is posted in IN thread. But, others have been similarly corrupted, So, .............

2) On

Quote:
The relevant part is, they will replace Su-33 with them. :)


NOPE.

This is a give-a-dog-a-bone.

If one were to check on Uncle google, they would have found:

2009 Russian Navy will probably buy 24 MiG-29K fighters designed for India

Yikes. Yes. Yikes. In that article:

Quote:
Currently, there are 19 Su-33 deck-based fighters in Russian naval aviation (the only fighter serially produced for Russian Armed Forces in 1992-1996), but their service life will be expired by 2015; therefore, the issue of their replacement is actual nowadays, said the source in the Ministry of Defense.

Production of new Su-33 is possible but unprofitable if production volume is small; and production of Mig-29K, considering 16 aircrafts ordered by India and potential 28 fighters to be delivered to this country, is much more economic value-added, says Makinenko. According to him, this cheapens the series and saves money for development.


Seems to me that IF India did not have a follow on order, THIS RuN order may not have taken place.

TIA India.

All that discussion about TVC, etc, is bogus. I doubt that India would do very much after this order. IF nothing more happens to Indian 29K, nothing is going to happen to the RuN 29Ks. I would like to think when all said and done IN will sell their 29K to the RuN. All of them for a FGFA-N or a F-35C.


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