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PostPosted: 07 Mar 2012 19:06 
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BRFite

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Austin wrote:


I am tempted to take it with a pinch of salt. I don't know how they calculated the probability of win and this is for the first time I have seen aircraft being compared in terms of fuel economy (like they are scooters)


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PostPosted: 07 Mar 2012 21:59 
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BRFite

Joined: 05 May 2007 01:20
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Location: ghaziabad
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this was an ideal mmrca,alas the controls and stupid pacts like cismoa etc. have ruined its chances. with the new cockpit from elbit,cft,apg-79, higher thrust gef414 EPE engines,internal IRST. JHMCS 2 HELMET and a far cheaper price, it was a better mmrca compared to rafale but what we wanted was complete tech transfer and handing over of source codes. rafale is ideal in that sense. but for N-MMRCA we should definitely give this a thought. for follow on order of 63 jets for IAF i think rafale is good because it has already been selected. spare a thought for the boeing guys and super hornet, they lost in japan and india,but this jet is really good no doubt


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PostPosted: 07 Mar 2012 22:11 
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BRF Oldie

Joined: 26 Jun 2005 10:26
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Location: Atop Orthanc, cursing, "Damn it where are those backfires??"
^^ Well, they'd have stood a much better chance had they introduced it earlier and demoed a flying proto for tech evals instead of just a mockup at AI 11 - too little too late.


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PostPosted: 07 Mar 2012 22:45 
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BRFite

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Cain Marko wrote:
^^ Well, they'd have stood a much better chance had they introduced it earlier and demoed a flying proto for tech evals instead of just a mockup at AI 11 - too little too late.




super hornet international roadmap detailed.with n-mmrca they can make it. i think mig-29k with aesa,rafale ,f-35c and super hornet international roadmap will be the contenders. with 45 mig-29k already ordered for ins vikramaditya and ins vkrant,it is easy to guess that iac-2 will be having lca mk2 and n-mmrca. it will most probably be a 65000 tonne carrier.indian navy plans a fleet of 100-120 fighters. 45 mig-29k,40 lca mk2 and 40 n-mmrca just fits the bill,but that will be post 2015 so most probably rafale or f-35 will win the deal. naval fgfa or pak-fa can also be there.


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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2012 00:11 
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BRF Oldie

Joined: 08 Aug 2006 18:43
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Update on BAe digging dirt on dassault winning the MRCA: they have identified a consultant that may have been involved.


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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2012 01:00 
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BRFite

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Location: ghaziabad
shyamd wrote:
Update on BAe digging dirt on dassault winning the MRCA: they have identified a consultant that may have been involved.

the mod and iaf should sign the contract without delay after concluding the negotiation . bae might resort to other dirty tricks.


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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2012 03:23 
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shyamd wrote:
Update on BAe digging dirt on dassault winning the MRCA: they have identified a consultant that may have been involved.



A BRF member perhaps?


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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2012 05:01 
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BRF Oldie

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^^ Lets see. Why this kolaveri though? Is it the disbelief that there HAS to be some foul play to get the L1? Does that mean Rafale is really more expensive? I mean to dig dirt on Dassault - that would mean someone at the top is seriously pissed off - and obviously the french govt/Dassault will respond in kind if there are allegations made.

But at least we know that the ball is rolling and BAe is looking for some mud to throw.


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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2012 05:11 
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BRF Oldie

Joined: 02 Dec 2008 10:49
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shyamd wrote:
? I mean to dig dirt on Dassault

Why? Isn't that what BAe is doing?

Quote:
- that would mean someone at the top is seriously pissed off -

The only ones pissed off are members of the EF consortium. For losing the contract. Well tough luck. I hope the govt. asks them to pi$$ off if they start creating too much trouble.


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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2012 06:52 
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BRF Oldie

Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
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Location: The Deep State
Ban EF for 10 years!!!!!!!


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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2012 07:01 
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Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
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Location: Gaius Bangaloricus - leader of 39th legion
BAE and HMG were involved in kickbacks for the saudi deals. they could rightly be banned here for 50 yrs for unethical and adharmic business practices. they better watch where they are treading.


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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2012 10:05 
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BRFite

Joined: 20 Sep 2000 11:31
Posts: 1337
Lalmohan wrote:
why only yesterday un named sources said that shiv was dating aishwarya
meanhile confirmed unnamed sources are saying that I was seen in a Bips/Sush sandwich


WOW BR is going places !!!!!!!


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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2012 03:08 
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Bernard Baiocco, the former director of Thales International Asia who retired in 2006 and is now a consultant. Baiocco has been based in Singapore for many years but he is a specialist in South-East Asia rather than India. He is one person BAe are focusing on.


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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2012 07:59 
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Location: Gaius Bangaloricus - leader of 39th legion
from 5th Feb 2012 - seems S Swamy is in the game.
http://janataparty.org/pdf/fighterjet.pdf
Although it is unclear whether any of these families have been involved in the fighter jet deal, industry
insiders claim that Bernard Baiocco, a veteran French consultant, took part in background negotiations.
Baiocco, a former employee of the Thales defence firm, allegedly met a senior and influential official in
the administration.
Last week Thales, which contributes radar and electronic systems to the Rafale, said Baiocco was not
working on its behalf. However, a Paris defence industry source said Baiocco was part of a team set up
by the consortium GIE Rafale, a group of 500 companies involved in making the plane.
In Delhi one prominent source suggested that Baiocco’s role was influential. “I was told that the
Eurofighter had won and then this changed,” said Subramanian Swamy, an Indian MP. “Baiocco was
here and he went around, and everything changed after that.”
Last week Baiocco could not be reached for comment and Dassault declined to answer questions about
his alleged meeting with the senior official. The French insist they have become the preferred bidder on
pure value for money
.....
Another Westminster source said that after allegations of corruption surrounding the huge Al-Yamamah
arms deal with Saudi Arabia, BAE had been at pains to play by the rules. “They are absolutely terrified
about doing anything that could even be construed as not cricket,” said the insider. “I’m not sure some of
their competitors play by the same rules.” :rotfl:


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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2012 16:06 
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BRFite -Trainee

Joined: 27 Jun 2011 12:05
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Dassault Says Indian Fighter Jet Deal Secure as Talks Intensify

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-09/dassault-says-indian-fighter-jet-deal-secure-as-talks-intensify.html

Quote:
For 15 years, we’ve been saying the Rafale costs less than the Eurofighter,” Edelstenne said. “Now it’s the Indians who are saying it.”

Dassault will prevail against the Eurofighter in India because in every competition where the two jets have been in direct competition, the French model gained higher rankings, even if it ultimately didn’t win the final deal, the CEO said.


Quote:
Little by little, the whole plane will come to be produced in India within 10 years,” he said. “We are open to all transfers of technology, I don’t fear competition.


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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2012 19:35 
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BRFite

Joined: 20 Sep 2000 11:31
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Lalmohan wrote:
un named sources can say anything to anyone
why only yesterday un named sources said that shiv was dating aishwarya
meanhile confirmed unnamed sources are saying that I was seen in a Bips/Sush sandwich


You lucky $#$%^!#^$#


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PostPosted: 10 Mar 2012 19:52 
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BRFite

Joined: 13 Jul 2010 11:02
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Just great. This deal is sought to be pulled into corruption scandal, too. Please leave this deal alone. We need this fighter. And we need all of them, i.e. 128 units, yesterday.


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PostPosted: 13 Mar 2012 11:58 
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BRFite

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Antony tells MoD to probe Rafale deal

Tamasha start again. God save India


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PostPosted: 13 Mar 2012 11:59 
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BRFite

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Eurofighter 'stands ready' to renegotiate MMRCA bid with India

Looks like critical parts of CAPTOR sourced from the US company Micronetics


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PostPosted: 13 Mar 2012 12:04 
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BRF Oldie

Joined: 11 Jan 2009 00:14
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At times I feel Antony is a blessing but thats just a minority. The good thing that seems to be coming out of this is that bofors from drawings is being made at OFB, whether it eventually turns out to be good we dont know. Also pray that we doint get into war while this turmoil is unfolding and see who is raising the complain mysoora reddy. he is a joke of a politician in AP

Added later well when r.chowdhary could do it why not m.reddy


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PostPosted: 13 Mar 2012 12:43 
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BRFite -Trainee

Joined: 13 Jan 2012 18:02
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Mr Teddy must be a defence expert when claiming that EF was sent over Lybia to compensate for the "lack of precision" of Rafale. If he was really unpartial he would know that EF bombing was so inappropriate to this battlefield with 1000lbs bombs that the number of EF decreased from 10 to 4.
And his files must be quite old, because everyone knows that while UAE officially rejected Rafala in last November, discussions were never interrupted and newspapers say that a contract is nearly to be signed with Dassault.
And if he wants India to be "clean", the way towards EF is all but clean with allegations of corruption in Austria and moreover in Saudi Arabia.
I am confident that Rafale will remain L1 even after inquiry. And it'll at the end prevent any further allegation.


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PostPosted: 13 Mar 2012 12:57 
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Location: Following the ice sheets back out over the steppes to the north
if the EF consortium members had any brains, they would be pitching for full JV on AMCA instead of harping on about EF now


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PostPosted: 14 Mar 2012 01:15 
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BR Mainsite Crew

Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31
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Cross post from Keypubs by Arthuro

Quote:
Who could work with Dassault ?
Air & Cosmos , march 9

To fulfill the conditions of the MoD in matter of offsets, Dassault Aviation will not only work with large state firms like HALand Bharat Electronics, the champion of Indian radars. The MoD wants also to promote the industrial private sector. Its agency for offsets, the Dofa, has referenced fifty players capable of producing equipment or systems for the Indian Rafale. These include Bharat Heavy Electricals, a diversified group which manufactures flight simulators and avionics, Larsen & Toubro (sensors, radars ...), Samtel (cockpit equipment, navigation), the latter being a partner of Thales for renovation of the Indian Mirage 2000 through a JV. There are also Alpha-ITL Electro Optics and Memory Electronics, which manufactures optronic equipment, or groups not necessarily specialists in matter of defense, like Reliance (who just signed an agreement with Dassault), Mahindra & Mahindra and Tata Power. The latter has created a division in combat systems and data link. Without forgetting ECIL, which manufactures joysticks and black boxes, or Precision Electronics, specialist in cabling.
In contrast, the Dofa list has few industrial specialized in aerostructures: there is Aurora Integrated Systems and Infra Polytec. Logically, this area is the prerogative of HAL.


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PostPosted: 14 Mar 2012 13:08 
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AKA told IAF chief that MRCA will be scrapped if any foul play is found. Please pray for there to be no corruption.

SS doesn't realise that he is playing on national defence preparedness.


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PostPosted: 14 Mar 2012 13:50 
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He realizes very well what could happen but he's letting his hatred for this govt. come in the way of national priorities


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PostPosted: 14 Mar 2012 15:21 
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BRFite

Joined: 12 Feb 2009 06:40
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Location: Mumbai
My Latest Photo:
Capitaine Cédric "Rût" Ruet getting back in his office > http://www.airliners.net/photo/2079587/L/

Click here to rate & remark on it Image


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PostPosted: 15 Mar 2012 03:55 
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BRFite -Trainee

Joined: 26 Sep 2009 15:14
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http://www.deccanchronicle.com/channels/cities/hyderabad/rafale-aircraft-shunned-all-countries-708
Quote:
"In Libya, in the war against Gaddafi, the Rafale had failed in precision bombing and finally the Typhoon was inducted". said MP M.V. Mysoora Reddy


Rafale Air Strike over Lybia:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlaZj6cyBS0&feature=youtu.be

Comparative table Rafale vs Typhoon:
Image

Copy/paste from:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/sh ... ost6080677


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PostPosted: 15 Mar 2012 04:33 
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Nihat wrote:
He realizes very well what could happen but he's letting his hatred for this govt. come in the way of national priorities

He isn't stupid, he knows what he is doing. He thinks every Indian citizen is dumb (based on my personal interaction with him).


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PostPosted: 15 Mar 2012 14:07 
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He serves the US interests if you ask me. His decibels go up when the relationship is bad between both countries. I really don't know why he is jeopardising national security, I told him about it. I guess winning elections might be more important. I do admire his ideology of integrating all citizens under the indian/Hindu identity regardless of religion. A nation that is not split and united as one is very important in a national security perspective.

Have a look at his replies to people on twitter. All this is off topic for this thread. We can take this discussion elsewhere.


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PostPosted: 15 Mar 2012 15:21 
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BRFite

Joined: 22 Nov 2011 18:59
Posts: 610
I think this deal should be scrapped as well, buy the F-18 IN with all the new upgrades and with a larger enough order we can get uncle to drop the intrusive bs and strings, I am sure unkil will oblige. Would be cheaper to operate the F-18IN through it's life time and it brings along commonality with the LCA MK-2 engine as well. With the upgrades offered for the SH, none can match it in terms of overall multirole ability.


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PostPosted: 15 Mar 2012 15:36 
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^^^ For that we may have to start MMRCA saga Part-2 will be back in 10 years


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PostPosted: 15 Mar 2012 16:03 
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BRFite

Joined: 07 Dec 2008 02:32
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This deal can't and won't be scrapped. Even if it is, a Tejas Mk2 with an Indian/Israeli or even a Russian AESA radar would do best on timelines and autonomy. Take 4-5 Billion out of MMRCA budget and invest it on the AMCA, sit back and see how fast it gets to the air

Any foreign angle and planted evidences should be investigated and closed(i.e. dismissed) quickly. Cant have a artillery or KNPP types saga with something as time-critical as MMRCA.


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PostPosted: 15 Mar 2012 20:59 
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BRFite

Joined: 26 Nov 2011 13:22
Posts: 172
Location: New Delhi
Septimus P is back - and he soars on his flights of fantasy.

What fun, friends. The bane of the Rafale, Septimus P, now wants us to go in for the F-18IN. Bully for him.

Why doesn't he really fantasise ? The IAF opting for the Mustang ?

Exciting days ahead for all of us on this topic. :lol:


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PostPosted: 15 Mar 2012 21:30 
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BRFite

Joined: 19 Oct 2009 06:40
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Location: www.ravikarumanchiri.com
Septimus P. wrote:
I think this deal should be scrapped as well, buy the F-18 IN with all the new upgrades and with a larger enough order we can get uncle to drop the intrusive bs and strings, I am sure unkil will oblige. Would be cheaper to operate the F-18IN through it's life time and it brings along commonality with the LCA MK-2 engine as well. With the upgrades offered for the SH, none can match it in terms of overall multirole ability.

:rotfl:

.................. 'nuf said................


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PostPosted: 16 Mar 2012 03:27 
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Joined: 09 Feb 1999 12:31
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http://www.rafalemalaysia.com/wp-conten ... 00x155.jpg

Image

Myth was that Rafale would not fare well against f22


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PostPosted: 16 Mar 2012 05:46 
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Location: Evolution is a circular firing squad and we all have bandanas
Acharya wrote:
http://www.rafalemalaysia.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/rafale_68-300x155.jpg

Image

Myth was that Rafale would not fare well against f22


Are you saying that Rafale faring 'well' against the F-22 is now a reality based on a Dassault site?

If so, I have a MiG-35 to sell that singlehandedly can fight off hordes off alien invaders:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlAsSyDAWR8


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PostPosted: 16 Mar 2012 09:25 
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Location: Gaius Bangaloricus - leader of 39th legion
those pics are from some other place...either red flag or such wherein the rafale took those shots. american fanboys claim they were taken during routine formation flight :) bit atleast the 6th pic looks surely like ACM

generally whenever any weakness in raptor is pointed out, the reaction of US fanboys is similar to the T72 fans who claim all manner of excuses why the T72 got thrashed and continues to get thrashed :twisted:


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PostPosted: 16 Mar 2012 15:02 
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BRFite -Trainee

Joined: 26 Sep 2009 15:14
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Old news , these pics were taken in 2009 during the ATLC exercice in Al Dhafra/UAE. The match between F22 and Rafale was related by Air & Cosmos magazine in June 2010. According to french pilots, there were 6 dogfights (wvr) : 5 draws and 1 win for the F22. Us pilots, on their side, said F-22 was undefeated at Al Dhafra. So , two consistent versions. (although other sources claim that one F22 was "shot down" by a Mirage 2000-9)

http://russiadefence.englishboard.net/t ... fale-pilot
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/sh ... ost5016188

Image
http://www.rafalemalaysia.com/rafale-sp ... nics-fso/#


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PostPosted: 16 Mar 2012 19:29 
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BRFite

Joined: 22 Nov 2011 18:59
Posts: 610
Having the F-22 on the OSF is hardly an accomplishment, even the MKI with OLS can easily spot it. The only aircraft to have offcially have killed the F-22 is a dog fight is the F-18SH. Rafale was turning circles around it.


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PostPosted: 16 Mar 2012 20:26 
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BRFite

Joined: 06 Sep 2008 13:35
Posts: 625
...And the mirage 2000-9 piloted by a french instructor. It's pretty official in france with even a commemorative patch about that event.

The rafale also had the F22 in its gunsight as shown but it was not deemed as a victory here. Anyway with 5 draw and one victory for the F22 we can say that both jet are on par as far as dogfighting is concerned.

http://www.google.fr/imgres?q=mirage+20 ... 9,r:8,s:19


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