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PostPosted: 18 Mar 2012 17:22 
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PAKFA = jessica michibata. not very indic figure...long, slim, edgy...not fullsome curves.


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PostPosted: 18 Mar 2012 20:38 
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Singha wrote:
PAKFA = jessica michibata. not very indic figure...long, slim, edgy...not fullsome curves.


PAKFA should be = Anushka Sharma 8)


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PostPosted: 19 Mar 2012 09:28 
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[OT] I'm sorry, but if you need to use a last name then you have not identified a name worthy for IAF aircraft :P [/OT]


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PostPosted: 19 Mar 2012 10:26 
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Well that was in reply to jessica michibata :P


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PostPosted: 19 Mar 2012 16:05 
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Will wrote:
Singha wrote:
PAKFA = jessica michibata. not very indic figure...long, slim, edgy...not fullsome curves.


PAKFA should be = Anushka Sharma 8)


I think PAKFA should be Deepika Padukone

DeePiKA PAduKone 8)


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PostPosted: 19 Mar 2012 23:49 
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India to induct new combat jets from 2016
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Come 2016 and India will start inducting the first of the 126 combat jets it is purchasing for nearly $20 billion, parliament was informed Monday.


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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2012 00:47 
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Some details on the price offered by Dassault for the Rafale as well as limited details on licence manufacturing

Eric Trappier Dassault interview translated to English

Quote:
Despite the battering of BAE who tries to deliver the Eurofighter in the race, Dassault expects to conclude the first sale of Rafale abroad this year. La décision de New Delhi a eu un effet d'entraînement sur les autres campagnes en cours, affirme le directeur de l'international de l'avionneur. The decision of New Delhi has had a ripple effect on other ongoing campaigns, says the director of international aircraft manufacturer.

In India, the Rafale has won the tender for the purchase of 126 combat aircraft. Qu'est-ce qui pourrait enrayer les négociations désormais exclusives ? What could stop exclusive negotiations now?
Eric Trappier (Dassault) :

I see no reason why we can go after and bring the Indians to stop when they have done the hard part. The procedure started in 2007. After several weeks of evaluations in extreme conditions, the slopes of the Himalayas to the desert sands, the Air Force selected two aircraft: the Rafale and Eurofighter. Ultimately, it is the lowest bid that won both in terms of unit cost of the device itself and its maintenance over time. Everything was conducted on the basis of criteria set in advance and have been scrupulously observed, without political involvement. This tender is exemplary.

When do you expect to find?

The Indians want to go fast, and considering a conclusion in about six months. We need to finalize the terms technical and industrial, and build a contract whose terms are equivalent to those of the Mirage 2000 (signed in 2000, Ed).

BAE has been suggested that the Eurofighter could get back on track ...

I do not believe, and I am surprised that some people are themselves surprised that the Rafale has prevailed. In all competitions where the two planes were opposed, the Eurofighter has been eliminated in the first round, as in Korea, the Netherlands, and Brazil, where he was ranked behind the Rafale, as in India. Or in Switzerland, as evidenced by the evaluation report of the armed forces published in the press. I add that the calculations of the Court of Accounts UK show that the Eurofighter is much more expensive. Operationally then, the Rafale has proved its versatility during Operation Harmattan, unlike the Eurofighter was conceived as a pure fighter. The tender has appointed Indian clearly the best aircraft.

Have you offered cheaper than that sold to France?

The price of the Rafale in India is offered at French prices, adjusted for expenses related to the contract since it is not quite the same technical configuration, and that manufacturing will be in part locally. The competition was so tough that each side had to offer the best possible price. That said, we have not done dumping to win. A iso-conditions, we proposed the price of French Rafale.

Of the 126 units planned, only 18 will be manufactured in France. Should we expect limited industrial benefits?

The IRB will not match the production of 126 Rafale in France, but not to build a few copies. Technology transfer will be done gradually and there will be no global licensing agreement, but licensing agreements for each device. . In other words, each device will live his own life and its production in India will obey a rise own. . The goal is that India is capable of manufacturing Rafale, but there will always be some activity in France. On the whole, the contract will employ tens of thousands of people.


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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2012 02:47 
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I hope we don't pay for that "some activity retained in France". we must use that for price negotiations, as Fr would maintain the hold on us for these strategic services, components and parts.


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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2012 03:29 
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SaiK wrote:
I hope we don't pay for that "some activity retained in France". we must use that for price negotiations, as Fr would maintain the hold on us for these strategic services, components and parts.


Like the Su-30MKI (and Hawk AJT) license manufacture deal w/ TOT, Rafale production at HAL will also follow a similar 5-step process. This is necessary in order to allow Indian industries to absorb new technologies gradually while still meeting the IAF's delivery timeline.

  1. First lot (18 units [2013-2016]) -> direct from France
  2. Second lot (guess-estimate ~18 units [2013-2018]) -> assembled at HAL via SDK supplied from France
  3. Third lot (guess-estimate ~36 units [2016-2021]) -> assembled at HAL w/ partial SDK from France and partial SDK from India
  4. Fourth lot (guess-estimate ~52 units [2018-2024]) -> assembled at HAL w/ most SDK produced in India
  5. Fifth lot (follow-on order ~60 units [2022-2027]) -> assembled at HAL w/ most SDK produced in India

So as you can see, French companies will retain portions of the manufacturing of parts for the next 15 years of Rafale production run for IAF, and then they will be involved in the MLU as well. There is no such thing as 100% indigenous production on a licensed-manufacture w/ TOT.


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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2012 05:00 
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If we're still proposing names........ for an Indian beauty.............

..................... Persis................


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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2012 07:31 
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Indian beauty Indian name so here goes : laajwanti .. Not seen easily that's why :)


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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2012 08:21 
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Shankaraa wrote:



I think PAKFA should be Deepika Padukone

DeePiKA PAduKone 8)


no way... When she was with ranbir , his films were flopping .. now she is with the mallya kid..look whats happening to kingfisher...the only place where the chick should go is the con party...


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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2012 08:50 
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Mamta or Jaya would be a better name. Beepuls should shudder at the mere mention of the name. Wars will fought without even lifting a finger.


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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2012 09:30 
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HAL raised a 360Cr tender last week for setting up the MMRCA line. Requirements were very clear and nice to read. iirc completion was 24 months, so do not expect any assembly to begin before 36-48 months.


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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2012 15:29 
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gakakkad wrote:
Shankaraa wrote:



I think PAKFA should be Deepika Padukone

DeePiKA PAduKone 8)


no way... When she was with ranbir , his films were flopping .. now she is with the mallya kid..look whats happening to kingfisher...the only place where the chick should go is the con party...


Ranbir is a flop with or without DP!

Mallya kid is NOT interested in DP

DP's beauty and grace matches with Rafale!

OR

We can always rely on MADHURI DIXIT, my fav!


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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2012 18:08 
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U.K., U.S. at Odds Over Saudi Deal
LONDON — British efforts to seal a major deal with Saudi Arabia for precision-guided bombs appears to be stalled by U.S. International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR), according to sources here and in Washington.
The deal to sell Paveway IV weapons developed by Raytheon’s U.K. arm has been on the table since mid-2010, but the U.S. State Department has rebuffed British efforts to secure ITAR approval despite high-level intervention by the government here, the sources said.
http://www.defensenews.com/article/2012 ... CFRONTPAGE

I will never understand US foreign policy : they've just sold another batch of 48 F-15E silent Eagle to Saudi Arabia and now they refuse to export GPS guided bombs !
If we had any plan to buy F-18 or F-35 for MRCA or Navy ... I think that this new US embargo, towards the biggest US ally in that area, is a proof that India wouldn't never be military independent with any US fighter (without speaking of sensible ToT).
At least Rafale can fire french weapons (Hammer GPS and future laser or EM guided bombs), thus ensuring total independence and full autonomy (of course bombs' unit price should be a bit more expensive).


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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2012 19:57 
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pandyan wrote:
Mamta or Jaya would be a better name. Beepuls should shudder at the mere mention of the name. Wars will fought without even lifting a finger.


'INDIRA' means beauty in Sanskrit. And we know for sure that the 'wimpies' to our west shudder at that name :)


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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2012 20:14 
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US policy is to make sure arms sold to Saudi Barbaria cannot be used against Israel. The above deal clearly doesn't fall into that category.


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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2012 21:39 
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US seems willing to sell Saudis the best of a2a weaponry - amraam, aim9x, AWACS etc but is unwilling to give them precision strike weapons and the sensors to support it. so no JSTARS and even the older F-15S had their ground mapping SAR modes deleted.

a bit peculiar because the saudis can always get A2G weapons from other sources..and planes like Tornado fleet and now typhoon. and because the US could disable most saudi weapons and shut down the saudi economy if it ever attacked Israel....


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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2012 22:48 
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saudi will not be able to integrate a2g weapons from other sources into unkil's kit
they are given a2a but insufficient training, and more importantly infrastructure to handle it in the battle space
then there is the whole issue of how many of the flyboy saudi princes are actually proficient in handling the equipment they have?


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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2012 23:52 
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Shankaraa wrote:
I think PAKFA should be Deepika Padukone

DeePiKA PAduKone 8)


My Vote for Deepika , Much like her long stealthy lethal legs , PAK-FA long stealthy lethal range will be devastating :shock:


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PostPosted: 21 Mar 2012 00:27 
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before an admin drone strike is called, I want to add something to the discussion.

LCA has a male name (Tejas) and is Indian, every foren fighter is phemale? Bhy???? Bhy phor there ijj no lady name for LCA? Is it because only great things to come out of India are male? Whyyyyy??? :(( :(( :((


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PostPosted: 21 Mar 2012 00:37 
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lakshmikanth wrote:
LCA has a male name (Tejas) and is Indian, every foren fighter is phemale? Bhy???? Bhy phor there ijj no lady name for LCA? Whyyyyy??? :(( :(( :((

Because "Tejas" isn't a name given by BRF. :P

Anyway, official BRF name for it is Jahaj-e-kufr (© Vina)


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PostPosted: 21 Mar 2012 01:43 
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back to naming discussions eh! are you guys questioning rak bhais favoirite name katrina for Rafale. Be aware that such a discussion means you are asking to change the name of this thread.


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PostPosted: 22 Mar 2012 05:54 
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Austin wrote:
Shankaraa wrote:
I think PAKFA should be Deepika Padukone

DeePiKA PAduKone 8)


My Vote for Deepika , Much like her long stealthy lethal legs , PAK-FA long stealthy lethal range will be devastating :shock:


But the PAK-FA does have generous proportions akin to the Su-30MKI..Deepika is very slim and doesn't have the large rear that Rambha had which was why Rakesh named the Su-30MKI that..IMO, Ileana is the one that suits the PAK-FA the most.


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PostPosted: 22 Mar 2012 08:43 
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Singha wrote:
US seems willing to sell Saudis the best of a2a weaponry - amraam, aim9x, AWACS etc but is unwilling to give them precision strike weapons and the sensors to support it. so no JSTARS and even the older F-15S had their ground mapping SAR modes deleted.

a bit peculiar because the saudis can always get A2G weapons from other sources..and planes like Tornado fleet and now typhoon. and because the US could disable most saudi weapons and shut down the saudi economy if it ever attacked Israel....


Not true.

Check this out: http://www.warisbusiness.com/521/news/n ... arms-deal/

Quote:
84 F-15SA Aircraft
170 APG-63(v)3 Active Electronically Scanned Array Radar (AESA) radar sets
193 F-110-GE-129 Improved Performance Engines
100 M61 Vulcan Cannons
100 Link-16 Multifunctional Information Distribution System/Low Volume Terminal (MIDS/LVT) and spares
193 LANTIRN Navigation Pods (3rd Generation-Tiger Eye)
338 Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems (JHMCS)
462 AN/AVS-9 Night Vision Goggles (NVGS)
300 AIM-9X SIDEWINDER Missiles
25 Captive Air Training Missiles (CATM-9X)
25 Special Air Training Missiles (NATM-9X)
500 AIM-120C/7 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM)
25 AIM-120 CATMs
1,000 Dual Mode Laser/Global Positioning System (GPS) Guided Munitions (500 lb)
1,000 Dual Mode Laser/GPS Guided Munitions (2000 lb)
1,100 GBU-24 PAVEWAY III Laser Guided Bombs (2000 lb)
1,000 GBU-31B V3 Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAM) (2000 lb)
1,300 CBU-105D/B Sensor Fuzed Weapons (SFW)/Wind Corrected Munitions Dispenser (WCMD)

50 CBU-105 Inert
1,000 MK-82 500lb General Purpose Bombs
6,000 MK-82 500lb Inert Training Bombs
2,000 MK-84 2000lb General Purpose Bombs
2,000 MK-84 2000lb Inert Training Bombs
200,000 20mm Cartridges
400,000 20mm Target Practice Cartridges
400 AGM-84 Block II HARPOON Missiles
600 AGM-88B HARM Missiles

169 Digital Electronic Warfare Systems (DEWS)
158 AN/AAQ-33 Sniper Targeting Systems
169 AN/AAS-42 Infrared Search and Track (IRST) Systems
10 DB-110 Reconnaissance Pods
462 Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System Helmets
40 Remotely Operated Video Enhanced Receivers (ROVER)
80 Air Combat Maneuvering Instrumentation Pods




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PostPosted: 22 Mar 2012 09:28 
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which means they are just trying to weaken sales prospects of eurofighter.


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PostPosted: 22 Mar 2012 09:32 
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^^^

True


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PostPosted: 22 Mar 2012 09:33 
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Did any body notice this piece fro The Hindu -

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-international/article3026518.ece

Few silver linings from the article-

In its most direct message that India, along with other nations importing oil from Iran, could face sanctions by July if it did not “significantly” reduce such imports, the U.S. State Department warned in a conference call this week that if such countries, “in addition to having imported petroleum products, may have had other kinds of sanctionable activities, it could actually become liable to sanctions even before [June 28]”.

The remarks raised brows here as sanctions against countries such as India, China, and South Korea appeared more imminent following the White House's push for upping the ante against Iran through its 2012 National Defence Authorisation Act (Section 1245).

seems sanctions music is the talk of the town ....


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PostPosted: 22 Mar 2012 10:06 
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Deepika


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PostPosted: 22 Mar 2012 10:17 
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Marten wrote:
HAL raised a 360Cr tender last week for setting up the MMRCA line. Requirements were very clear and nice to read. iirc completion was 24 months, so do not expect any assembly to begin before 36-48 months.


Could you link that tender for us? I couldn't find it in HAL e-tenders website. TIA.


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PostPosted: 22 Mar 2012 14:12 
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This is normal US behaviour, Paveways 4 is made in the UK and has lot of US tech, UK can't just sell it to any one it please and unkil will always remind anyone who plans to sell such high tech items with US content to stick to ITAR rules. Nothing shocking here, TOT for EF ror the Saudis had to be approved by the US as well and now Rafale's TOT has to be approved by US ae well when the deal is signed. All Western fighters have a lot of US content, Rafale too has US content.

Looking at the direct sale of weapons of PGMs from the US to saudi is quite a heavy kit.

Specially the 1300 CBU-97/105 SFW, I think we need to order 2000 of these in addtion to the 500 we already did. One of those weapons that will defeat the enemy's will to fight.

The AASM or Hammer costs well over 150 K euros per unit, one could get an eqully deadly JDAM-ER for a fourth of the price. All US made wepaons are in most cases 3 times cheaper and 3 times more effective, taking on china and pak is an expensive proposition, can't go dropping a 150 to 300K bomb to destroy a target that really isn't worth that kind of expensive attention. AASM relies on US GPS and the Rafale to has US made components so good luck actually trying to get full autonomy from the US. France neither has the production capacity to match or meet the volume of weapons we need to take on China and Pak at the same time.


It is quite clear that what we need to take on both china and pak is large volumes of cost effective standoff Pgms, cruise missiles and


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PostPosted: 22 Mar 2012 18:11 
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Hmm.... in a country of billion people with many movie industries employing many actresses and known for their beauty, all we could find is two names, Deepika and Anuksha sharma, sigh! Either this forum is full of gents who never watch regional movies other than bollywood or full of tasteless oldies waiting for retirement.

Though Deepika have look, at times, the look resembles more as He-woman than She-woman. With her looks, she is best suited for the Catwoman role played by Anne Hathaway. To know why we are talking about Ileana, which means light as the name Deepika, watch the Telugu movie, Pokiri. And there are many movies where she appeared in 'baring and daring' role.

PAKFA, Su-30, F-14, F-15 are 'heavy' fighters. Don't spoil PAKFA image by naming it after Anushka Sharma, Priyanka Chopra, Piaa Bajpai, Genelia etc.

With zero youthfulness, I seriously consider changing to another forum... :evil: :D /OT


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PostPosted: 22 Mar 2012 18:16 
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Septimus P. wrote:
PAKFA, Su-30, F-14, F-15 are 'heavy' fighters. Don't spoil PAKFA image by naming it after Anushka Sharma, Priyanka Chopra, Piaa Bajpai, Genelia etc.


Ok what about Katya Zharkova plus size and russian also... :twisted:


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PostPosted: 22 Mar 2012 18:21 
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OMG, enuff with the names already :evil: :evil:


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PostPosted: 22 Mar 2012 20:38 
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what we need for 2 front was is large quantity of 500lb, 1000lb Sudarshan LGB kits to start with. these would have a range of 10-20km depending on speed and altitude. thats got to be the bread, butter and dosa.

next would come cheap folding wing range extention kits bolted to the above to extend the range to around 50km when launched from 35,000ft and mach0.9...to be used for more defended target areas.

third would be powered weapons of upto around 150km - to hit SAM/radar/C3I type targets or battlefield infra targets. these would be much costlier to field..like Jassm/Crystal maze/KEPD350 type stuff.

fourth and last the more strategic weapons like a air launched nirbhay on deep targets...not to affect the tactical battle.

1st category - we need to locally make 10000s of these for all IAF ac and indigenize it 100% or atleast 95% to cut costs and secure our main stick, easily we need 50,000
2nd category - we need a few 1000 of these...maybe 10,000 again indigenization is a must with some licensing of tech to speed the curve
3rd category - we can import a few 100 to start with, and work on a local project which none exists at the moment. in a decade goal should be local design n production.
4th category - nobody will sell this to us. Nirbhay-A has to work. we need atleast 3000. also a smaller version will backfill the gap in 3rd category

so salvation lies neither in US weapons or French weapons, but in 1000s of local weapons that may be 85% as accurate or versatile but will get the job done cheaper and give us strike autonomy and immunity from wartime price gouging. this will also make the top players more willing to sell bits and pieces of tech once they know main finished product market is gone.

first step up the ladder is for IAF to place a $1 billion confirmed order for say 50,000 Sudarshan kits. this will send a powerful message to everyone concerned we mean business instead of pussyfooting around. OFB will have to ramp up production of new bombs, new munitions storage and handling built up in all bases, and BEL or whoever is production agency will need a good sized plant and investment to start churning things out .. lead time will be surely 2-3 yrs best case


Its time to draw the line in sand and act. stop talking. start moving. we have already paid for and obtained access to glonass signal mil grade. so sudarshan can be made dual mode laser and GLONASS guided -- for blind attacks on static targets through smoke, cloud and dust where laser is useless or undesired due to threat levels.


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PostPosted: 22 Mar 2012 21:25 
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GD, if people in MOD are 10% as forward thinking as you, India still has a chance.


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PostPosted: 22 Mar 2012 23:09 
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50,000 LGB kits? now, that would truly give some muscle to the firepower department. and precisely the reason it's unlikely to happen. remember the recent decision not to allow private cos in military ship building....the powers that be have some very strong handles in MoD establishment. such thoughts of even order 50,000 LGB's will be crushed if anyone comes up with it.


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PostPosted: 22 Mar 2012 23:55 
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devesh wrote:
50,000 LGB kits? now, that would truly give some muscle to the firepower department. and precisely the reason it's unlikely to happen. remember the recent decision not to allow private cos in military ship building....the powers that be have some very strong handles in MoD establishment. such thoughts of even order 50,000 LGB's will be crushed if anyone comes up with it.


I wonder what our Babu's think wars are fought with :mrgreen: There should be a political think tank for military affairs to educate them.


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PostPosted: 23 Mar 2012 00:40 
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50,000 LGB kits looks a good number, if we still think in terms of a Soviet style power, but the upkeep (storage, diagnostics, batch defect rectification etc) and management of Blocks during the lifecycle can be taxing to our logistics. Have a few thousand local ones, but have openings to worldwide *reliable* suppliers, who can ramp up production, when needed. Even if a few of our centers get taken out, we can still get them shipped over.

keeping a few 1000 cruise missiles at operational readiness needs khan budget (and supply chain), not panda's, not our's.


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