India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 03 Mar 2012 09:16

Karnataka beacons Defence MSME companies at DEFEXPO 2012

aniket · Post by **aniket** » 03 Mar 2012 10:34

I don't get it.Why start the disinvestment process just before HAL gets major orders like the MMRCA,LCH,PAK-FA ?
If the government delays this process till some of these orders are completed won't HAL be worth more and won't the government make more money ?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 Mar 2012 11:04

Q:Does HAL's net profit is returned to GoI?

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 03 Mar 2012 12:07

It is only a 10% stake--GoI will still own 90%. But it is a light bulb moment, an admission that HAL needs an injection of outside expertise, specially in project management. Something IAF has been complaining about for years. There is a realization that if left alone, HAL will make a mess of the critical major projects on the burner, like Rafale, FGFA, LCA2 etc. A timely though still too timid move IMO but a turning point for Indian aviation industry. If things go well, GoI will have a minority stake in a decade or less.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 03 Mar 2012 12:17

if they start with 10%, it will take at least a generation (25-30 years) before the govt's stake falls anywhere close to 50%. minority stake is a long way away, let alone a decade. a decade is like a week when it comes to disinvestment.

JohnTitor · Post by **JohnTitor** » 03 Mar 2012 17:30

aniket wrote:I don't get it.Why start the disinvestment process just before HAL gets major orders like the MMRCA,LCH,PAK-FA ?
If the government delays this process till some of these orders are completed won't HAL be worth more and won't the government make more money ?

It doesn't make a difference. Today you talk of more money due to MMRCA etc.. tomorrow it will be PAKFA, day after AMCA, after that something else. The point is, the "value" doesnt change, the price changes and is offset by inflation. The quicker disinvestment occurs, the better run HAL will become. Is giving 10 or 20% more money to the babus (who will probably pocket it anyway) more important than increasing efficiency and advancing technology through innovation?

aniket · Post by **aniket** » 03 Mar 2012 19:50

Thanks for the explanation.You are probably right.

tejas · Post by **tejas** » 03 Mar 2012 21:33

Why can't HAL be privatized? Is it some great surprise that a gov't owned company is not as well managed as its foreign privately owned competitors? Are there any gov't owned fighter manufacturers in the world ( other than communist China) ? The IAF is not satisfied with HAL's performance. So lets import foreign management practices but keep gov't ownership of HAl. Brilliant absolutely brilliant.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 03 Mar 2012 22:28

The small private ownership represents an outsize kick. There will no longer be any way to hide stuff under the carpet and the big bosses will be forced to answer questions and explain things. Even this small disinvestment is a major victory over the powerful entrenched bureaucracy and vested interests. IMO, it is still a long dark tunnel but now we can see a light at the end of it. My suspicion is that GoI was warned by Dassault who were appalled by what they must have seen at HAL. They would have talked directly to the lower-level engineers, not just the top guys, to gauge the overall level of competency and preparedness.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 04 Mar 2012 00:43

tejas wrote:Is it some great surprise that a gov't owned company is not as well managed as its foreign privately owned competitors?

More than foreign, Indian private companies are now on the cutting edge of management practices and in the best position to catapult HAL into the international big leagues. But efficiency aside, just being answerable in a "perform or perish" environment is a powerful incentive to do your job or find someone who can. This is absent at HAL. The writing has been on the wall for a decade at least but nobody bothered because the easy money was flowing. The only party that has any say other than the useless babus and politicians is the IAF, the actual end user, and they have very low confidence in HAL. It was shocking and disheartening to see HAL crowing about getting a big license building opportunity from Dassault. Being the biggest arms importer is a matter of shame for a country like India, but the easy money is drying up and it is finally crunch time. The same story is being played out at other defense PSUs so let's see what happens.

tejas · Post by **tejas** » 04 Mar 2012 01:10

What I don't understand is how long does one stick with the same method of operation when the desired results are not forthcoming? The current MIC in in India results not only in imports of nearly every non-strategic weapon system including propeller driven planes and assault rifles. If an arms embargo were placed on India tomorrow how long of a conventional war could it fight before having to decide between fission bombs and throwing stones? Now the useless MOD wants MDL and a foreign shipyard to build India's next tranche of subs. This despite several Indian private shipyards wanting to participate. L&T can fabricate the hull for the Arihant but not a conventional sub?

The chimps at MOD know if L&T competes on an equal footing with MDL, it will be the end of MDL. Aack thoo!

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 04 Mar 2012 07:25

Shonu wrote:.. Is giving 10 or 20% more money to the babus (who will probably pocket it anyway) more important than increasing efficiency and advancing technology through innovation?

I am concerned at this analogy. be it 1 paisa or $1trillion.. scam is a scam. as said, the values (not monetary) are all that matters. increasing efficiency and advancing technology need not happen only by paying bribes to babooze.

If there are still new age youngsters in the old age shoes of bribing to get even a small share of freedom, then I am really concerned at our nation's future. It does not matter if HAL does it or Tata does it, under some other banner. The same shaming will continue to happen and grow into a giant monster.

We will ever be slaves to firangi technology as it is slowly becoming the case starting from GTRE's give up!

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 04 Mar 2012 21:13

so the babu speak sense only lasted for few seconds/hours I guess. did they fire their strategic consultant? and back to being baboozed!

http://www.bharatrakshak.com/NEWS/newsr ... wsid=17324
The MMRCA saga is well known, and it has taken decade to finalize to Rafale. Now, that is all done with no priority at all!?

I am surprised at the budget balance speak as for the arrears collected over the years, the budget is all washed away.. this is the reason, every one keeps baying that we don't spend in time, lose it!

suddenly we have a new finance consultant throwing away the strategic consultant. when will this stupidity stop? only when public maturity at large becomes a stay.

arnabh · Post by **arnabh** » 05 Mar 2012 00:20

Microwave Masters

http://www.frontline.in/stories/20120309290412000.htm

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 06 Mar 2012 23:39

Defence major DCNS of France signs Rs 310-cr deal with SEC.

DCNS, the French defence major has signed a partnership sub-contract with SEC Industries for the manufacture of Scorpene submarine components. The deal is worth €50 million (approx Rs 310 crore). This is a significant win for the Hyderabad-based, private sector manufacturer of key defence components. In addition to executing the contract, SEC Industries will benefit from the transfer of technology from the French company.

DCNS, is one of Europe's leading shipbuilders. The over 350-year-old company, has bagged a huge contract from India to supply six Scorpene attack submarines, which are under construction at the Mazagon Dock Ltd (MDL), Mumbai.

SEC Industries has upgraded its facilities near Hyderabad to meet the needs and standards of DCNS for the components and assemblies that it will manufacture for the naval submarine. The first batch of a dozen employees (total 40 employees) from the company is in France to get trained at the facilities of DCNS , said Mr D. Vidyasagar, Managing Director of SEC Industries.“We have to execute the contract in four years. We will gain in technology terms, infrastructure and trained manpower,” he told Business Line.

SEC Industries, which is over 50 years old, is also well equipped to take advantage of the defence offset clauses which provide big opportunities to Indian industry. It is already in partnership with IAI of Israel for manufacturing a number of products like shipping containers, ground data terminal trailers, refuelling carts, hook arresting systems etc.During the last two years, exports to Israel from the company have been over Rs 20 crore, said Mr Vidyasagar.

The company has signed agreements to make equipment for heavy duty launchers from Belarus and other defence products from Ukraine to tap the offset and defence export market, he added.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 07 Mar 2012 05:26

Gujarat Contemplating Defence Manufacturing Policy

With a view to encouraging domestic manufacturing of defence equipment, Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi today said his government is contemplating a manufacturing policy in this regard.

"The country is spending huge amount on import of defence equipment. The Gujarat government is planning to come out with a policy for manufacturing defence equipment in the state, Modi said here at an award function.

The industry department in a discussion paper in 2010 had proposed to raise FDI in defence production to 74 per cent from the current 26 per cent, saying it would help ensure technology transfer and funds to effectively replace imports.

India is one of the largest users and importers of conventional defence equipment and ranks among the top ten countries in the world in terms of military expenditure.

India opened up the defence equipment industry to private sector in May 2001. The country imports over USD 8 billion worth of defence equipment and its defence budget is growing at 13.4 per cent annually since 2006-07.

According to estimates, nearly 70 per cent of India's defence requirements are met through imports.

Apart from defence PSUs like Hindustan Aeronautics, Bharat Electronics and BEML private players such as Mahindras, Tatas and Pipavav Defence and Offshore Engineering Company are domestic defence equipment suppliers.

The central government's stated aim is to reverse this trend and manufacture 70 per cent or more of its defence needs indigenously.

India spent over Rs 4,42,000 crore in the last ten years on procuring defence equipment for the armed forces from both foreign and Indian players.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 07 Mar 2012 11:04

^^^ wonder what those two guys with backpack and Jeans are doing in the Factory floor?

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 07 Mar 2012 11:07

DRDO's NSTL seems to be on the verge of realizing multiple products. Fortunately for them, the Navy might deploy them quickly and place subsequent orders in larger numbers...

The NSTL has developed both light-water torpedoes (LWTs), named TAL, and heavy-weight torpedoes (HWTs), named Takshak and Varunastra. Takshak has two versions, a submarine-launched variant with wire guidance and a ship-launched one with autonomous guidance. Varunastra is an advanced version of the ship-launched HWT. Under development is a torpedo called Shakti with thermal propulsion, which can generate 500 kilowatt of power and rev up the engine within a second. “Thermal propulsion is a challenging technology,” said Rangarajan. “It is a totally indigenous effort. We have already consolidated several technologies in its development. Only the United States, the United Kingdom and Russia had torpedoes with thermal propulsion when we took up the challenge.”

The above quote from Frontline article... multiple Torpedoes on the horizon apart from TAL.

See original article @ http://www.frontlineonnet.com/stories/2 ... 509800.htm

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 07 Mar 2012 11:10

Another Gem from TSS, again in the Frontline!!!

This time about the NPOL, Kochi... he calls them the "Eyes and Ears of the Indian Navy"
http://www.frontlineonnet.com/stories/2 ... 510000.htm
A good read, very informative...

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 07 Mar 2012 11:18

arnabh wrote:Microwave Masters - http://www.frontline.in/stories/20120309290412000.htm

The link to this informative article given by Arnabh is probably wrong, here is the corrected URL
http://www.flonnet.com/fl2904/stories/2 ... 412000.htm

Kailash · Post by **Kailash** » 09 Mar 2012 14:21

Gene therapy for soldiers

Dr Saraswat further maintained that genetic engineering is evolving as the future of modern medicine and it can help treat wounds, bleeding and trauma in soldiers without complex surgeries.

Guess the "it can" could be read as "it can, down the lane, sometime in the far future". Sincerely hope otherwise.

Kailash · Post by **Kailash** » 12 Mar 2012 16:15

Govt to enhance domestic defence production capabilities

gunjur · Post by **gunjur** » 13 Mar 2012 19:20

Indian army tanks get 'All seeing eye'

certain excerpts

The indigenous Arjun tank, considered the finest third generation battle tank in the world , will soon be fitted with an ‘Automatic Video Tracker’

A prototype of the device was successfully tested on Arjun tanks in the Pokhran range, Rajasthan recently.

“Whether the target is in the front or at the rear of the tank, the device can detect any enemy threat and lock on to it,” Sheshadri said. “During trials, it detected fighter aircraft and missiles at a distance of 25 to 30 kms away. But for terrestrial targets, the army wanted us to limit it to 3km. Israel has also installed a commercial grade version of the product in their surveillance gadgets like air balloons etc. The defence grade has been made available only to the DRDO ,”

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 13 Mar 2012 22:44

Does that mean this product is licensed from Israel, or that Israel has the Indian commercial version( that would be impressive-India transferring a technology to Israel)? Or are the two devices independent of one another?

aditp · Post by **aditp** » 14 Mar 2012 00:02

It probably means that an Indian payload was asked to be incorporated in the aerostats procured from Israel and they agreed.

gunjur · Post by **gunjur** » 14 Mar 2012 17:42

^^^ though the article does not mention that technology has been procured from israel, it mentions

Israel has also installed a commercial grade version of the product in their surveillance gadgets like air balloons etc.

So this could mean that this product has been sold to israel (hope this to be true), it could also be part of offset package from israel. i mean as part of offset package, israel may have bought this product(maybe a plain commercial transaction with no tech transfer).

Meanwhile
Nigerian navy delegation visits Goa Shipyard Ltd
Hopefully various private shipyards which were shown the door by government take cue and aggressively pitch for contracts especially across africa and build technology base.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 15 Mar 2012 01:22

NO! This simply means that Israel installed a commerical grade version which in BRF lingo would mean a Dumbed Down version. Either the Yehudi's didn't have clearance from their big brother to install this on air ballons or the mil grade was deemed too expensive (highly doubt that!) by India. Take your pick!

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 15 Mar 2012 08:34

Indian Defence supplier Radiant Corp to source TTI Inc. components

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 15 Mar 2012 08:51

ITC Infotech implements PLM at CVRDE

KrishnaK · Post by **KrishnaK** » 15 Mar 2012 11:10

Looks like algorithms for video tracking are available publicly. The Condensation Algorithm. Leaf blowing in the wind looks pretty impressive. SDREs would lap up this shit up like curd rice and not even burp.

koti · Post by **koti** » 15 Mar 2012 11:40

SDREs would lap up this shit up like curd rice and not even burp

The most disgusting sentence I came across on BRF.

Thanks for the links though, I will be on them for sometime.

koti · Post by **koti** » 15 Mar 2012 13:38

tata 8x8
What is the Air defense gun system shown here. I remember it to be a stationary AAA German system.
But that coupled with a Tata platform is something I have never heard of.

keshavchandra · Post by **keshavchandra** » 20 Mar 2012 10:44

DRDO requests for more funds
Link

The chief of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) complained to Defence Minister A K Antony today that the ministry had not allocated enough funds for research and development, given the number of weapon development projects on the anvil.

Speaking at a DRDO conference in New Delhi, where Antony was present, DRDO’s director V K Saraswat, said, “At the recently concluded Indian Science Congress, the honourable PM had promised a substantial increase in fund allocation for science and technology. But, it is noted in the Budget proposals for 2012-13, the share of funds for DRDO remains more or less the same. DRDO has a requirement of about Rs 14,000 crore against an indicated allocation of Rs 10,640 crore.”

Saraswat cited several new development projects that demanded immediate funding, specifically the short-range surface to air missile; the Arjun Mark II tank; the Tejas Mark II fighter; and the Agni-5 and Agni-6 nuclear-capable, long-range, ballistic missiles. “We request the honourable RM (raksha mantri) to consider higher allocation of funds for DRDO,” said Saraswat.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 20 Mar 2012 10:59

hoping against hope that tejas mk2/arjun mk2 dont get hit

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 21 Mar 2012 01:57

Ordnance Factory to invest Rs 15,000 cr for modernisation.

Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) plans to invest Rs 15,000 crore towards modernisation of its factories in the next five years.

Ordnance Factories Board , which has a total of 41 factories including two newly-set units in Bihar and Uttar Pradesh, expects a turnover of Rs 12,000 crore this fiscal, as compared with Rs 11,200 crore last year. Having invested Rs 1,600 crore to procure plant and machinery at its new units during the first four years of the Eleventh Plan period, The OFB would invest another Rs 500 crore this fiscal, Mr S.D. Dimri, Chairman, Ordnance Factories Board, said.

“We are planning a total investment of around Rs 15,000 crore for the modernisation of 41 factories as a part of the 12th Five Year Plan.
Demand has doubled (Defence sector) over the last two years,” Mr Dimri said.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Mar 2012 12:30

is that tata thing the oerlikon skyshield? I guess rheinmetall owns oerlikon now
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Be0oKlgHeIc/T ... gun_01.jpg

one of the things I have been howling about for a decade+ now. essential to back up spyder in static defence , and to supplement protection for army units - our zsu and tunguska numbers are very low, this would be cheaper and less complex.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 21 Mar 2012 17:35

DRDO Young Scientist Award 2011 winners Listed with achievements.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 21 Mar 2012 20:35

keshavchandra wrote:DRDO requests for more funds
Link
The chief of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) complained to Defence Minister A K Antony today that the ministry had not allocated enough funds for research and development, given the number of weapon development projects on the anvil.

Speaking at a DRDO conference in New Delhi, where Antony was present, DRDO’s director V K Saraswat, said, “At the recently concluded Indian Science Congress, the honourable PM had promised a substantial increase in fund allocation for science and technology. But, it is noted in the Budget proposals for 2012-13, the share of funds for DRDO remains more or less the same. DRDO has a requirement of about Rs 14,000 crore against an indicated allocation of Rs 10,640 crore.”

Saraswat cited several new development projects that demanded immediate funding, specifically the short-range surface to air missile; the Arjun Mark II tank; the Tejas Mark II fighter; and the Agni-5 and Agni-6 nuclear-capable, long-range, ballistic missiles. “We request the honourable RM (raksha mantri) to consider higher allocation of funds for DRDO,” said Saraswat.

AGNI 6 hmmm.. Tracking?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Mar 2012 22:10

Dont they discuss allocations with heads of dept before presenting this budget?

Looks like gap if DRDO chief finds out what is his allocation from the press!

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 22 Mar 2012 20:18

Turnaround even in general perception of DRDO’s accomplishments : Defence Minister