Indian Interests

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brihaspati
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by brihaspati »

shiv ji,
even the "moderate" "immoderate" is an old repeat - as per forum archives, isnt it? People have quite strongly demanded that there exist "moderate" muslims.

The problem in this whole categorization of "moderate" and "extremist" is that moderation needs to be measured in the face of "violence". Moderation can only be proved in the face of extremism from the same ideology. In the past violent encounters - we have little proof of the moderates if they were present - having any active preventive role. Whole Muslim populations sat completely idle if not all participating in violent ghazyias on the non-muslim. Within the majority community however there were active factions who opposed majority violence on the minority Muslims. In contrast - no active opposition in the Muslim majority cases.

As my anecdotal experince indicates - a person could be apparently breaking sharia taboos - and thereby appear moderate - yet where it concerns violence on the kaffir he may not be inclined to oppose the sharia which fully supports such violence on the non-Muslim.

So the category of moderate or extremist you are using carries no meaning when it comes to what we are discussing - the threat of jihadi violence fueled by theological aspirations on the non-Muslim. There were extremely few known cases of Muslims actively coming down on the streets to prevent jihadi violence on non-muslims in the 40's - in the then East Bengal only Batam Sardar's example is known to me. Subsequent data on riots in post-independence India has been deliberately fudged - but my local knowledge suggests that it never really happened in any significant number in the riots in GV post-indepndence.
shiv
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by shiv »

brihaspati wrote:shiv ji,
even the "moderate" "immoderate" is an old repeat - as per forum archives, isnt it? People hae quite stringly demanded that there exist "moderate" muslims.

The problem in this whole categorization of "moderate" and "extremist" is that moderation needs to be measured in the face of "violence". Moderation can only be proved in the face of extremism from the same ideology. In the past violent encounters - we have little proof of the moderates if they were present - having any active preventive role. Whole Muslim populations sat completely idle if not all participating in violent ghazyias on the non-muslim. Within the majority community however there were active factions who opposed majority violence on the minority Muslims. In contrast - no active opposition in the Muslim majority cases.

So the category of moderate or extremist you are using carries no meaning when it comes to what we are discussing - the threat of jihadi violence fueled by theological aspirations on the non-Muslim. There were extremely few known cases of Muslims actively coming down on the streets to prevent jihadi violence on non-muslims in the 40's - in the then East Bengal only Batam Sardar's example is known to me. Subsequent data on riots in post-independence India has been deliberately fudged - but my local knowledge suggests that it never really happened in any significant number in the riots in GV post-indepndence.
Brihaspati these are clever, complex arguments of the highly literate, meant for the equally literate. A Muslim who hums and taps his feet to a tune during a Hindu celebration is declared moderate and no one is going to listen to long winded arguments about why moderation is not moderation.

Why does this fact escape those of us who have complex enough minds to parse the minute nuances that separate real moderation from what only appears to be moderation to those whom we consider less well informed than ourselves?

I have thought about why people who try to explain the danger of islamism are unable to simplify the explanation of the danger to a few words that any person with an attention span of 30 seconds can understand. When there is no killing involved the dangers of Islamism cannot be explained in simple terms.

Technically a dedicated islamist who understands this can postpone/avoid killing and appear moderate knowing fully well that all actions will automatically be deemed moderate until the killing starts. But that is a bad ploy. Killing is too blatant and obvious and in this day and age killing non Muslim opponents invites retaliation.

In the absence of killing islamism still spreads insidiously and "under the radar". That insidious spread is by punishment of Muslims who oppose islam while welcoming others to join and forcing a conversion before marriage. Please pardon me for digressing, but such "under the radar" expansion is being done by Christianism as well with some differences.

The islamism "threat" is visible mainly because of its propensity for violence, and stopping violence is the first step. But when it comes to the "next step" of checking insidious spread, it is not Islamism alone that is doing that. Christainim, again with US aid is right in there in that game.

I had remarked earlier that Islam spread initially because of the military superiority of its early followers. Its later losses were predominantly due to military defeats. Coming to the Indian context, the US arming of the Islamists of Pakistan made Pakistan a serious military threat to India. When Islamism has a military victory, all is lost. We are back to the days of widows having to burn themselves to avoid being taken. I was astounded by what appeared to me as a gap in your analysis as you tried to dismiss the US's arming of Islamists as irrelevant. It was not.

First and foremost, Islamists cannot be allowed military victory. Next the violence must be stemmed. Third the insidious spread must be checked. One follows from the other.
abhishek_sharma
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by abhishek_sharma »

There is a book "Communal Riots in India:A Case study of An Indian State".

In this book, following riots in Bihar have been discussed in detail:

1. Ranchi - Hatia Riot (1967)
2. Sursand Riot (1967)
3. Jamshedpur riot (1979)
4. Biharsharif riot (1981)
5. Bhagalpur riot (1989)

I can post a few paragraphs if you guys are interested.
ramana
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by ramana »

Shiv,
ramana wrote:X-Post..
The real issue is how the EIC period historians wrote the history of India during the 18th-19th centuries. The first three hundred years of Islamic rule are depicted in a particular narrative.

The first aspect is Gothic dark narrative of death, destruction and ruination in the early Islamic centuries. It didnt help that the Islamic hagiographers glorified and chronicled that aspect to show their belief in triumph of their religion based conquest. Most of the conquest turned out that way due to chance. It was a touch and go most of the time. Akbar became emperor due to a lucky arrow shot.

The second aspect is the inevitability of the loss of the conquered people. Narrative after narrative, historian after historian writes about how Hindus were only going to lose due to many factors: caste system, out-moded chivalry, ancient warfare techniques, quarreling leaders etc.

Yet the Rajputs had put up centuries of resistance (from Battle of Rajasthan to Rana Sanga, Rana Pratap etc.) and had transformed the Mughal empire into a collaborative rule. This is what tempered the Mughal rule and made it so glorious that it attracted all those European merchants who later became rulers and rewrote histories.

The Marathas had founded their kingdom in 1680 and in less than a century had become the dominant power in India. They ignore the fact that within fifty years of the death of Aurangazeb, the Mughal Emperor was pensioner of the Marathas.

The third aspect is geographic. One vision is that of a greater India stretching from Afghanistan to Burma from Kashmir to Kanya Kumari. The other is the lesser India shorn of all the peripheral lands and peoples.

In the end it was the lesser India that the freedom struggle agreed to.

SAARC is way to get back to greater India just as EU is way to forget the Thirty year war in Middle Europe.


The unstated thesis of all these historians is that the advent of the British had lesser impact compared to the ravages of the Islamic centuries.

Islamic centuries(1200 to 1550)= very bad
Mughal rule(1550-1700) = not so bad
British (1757-1857 & 1858-1947) = good

First the British wrote such narratives and next the Indian historians followed it. Next the spun a Marxist interpretation which is a mix of the first two themes: Gothic and inevitable defeat.

We don't know the role of Protestant triumph after emerging from the Reformation era Europe in those two centuries of rise of EIC.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by devesh »

brihaspati ji,

the problem, as I understand it, is that the deniers and those who insist that any anecdotal evidence of Islamics being radical as nothing more than propaganda, have operated within a framework which makes it hard to counter their denialism. as a first priority, they carried out Partition under the "amputating the 'evil'" theory. next, they systematically erased any historic narratives of atrocities of the Islamics that were left over in India. they made sure that none of it entered the official state history textbooks. and then bestowed the power of history-making to the Marxists. with a combination of all these tools, they have formed the narrative of "moderatism", where if a Muslim resides inside the borders of India, then he/she looses any trace of Jihadi thinking. it is as if the boundary which delineates India and Pak is some grand mythical gift given to Indians, that as soon as you cross over here, the forces of history, of long term Islamic networks doing their dirty deeds, all loose their power and you enter the realm of the "moderate" muslim.

the above is the only thing which explains why LoC has become such a mythical "don't pass" line. if LoC becomes a paper-tiger, then the entire edifice, so carefully constructed, becomes obsolete. the deniers and naysayers *need* the boundary as it is, to foist their propaganda as truth. for better or worse, JLN gave them LoC, and they need to maintain it. even IG, for all her mythical Goddess Durga-like powers, was seemingly powerless when she came up against that mythical gift to Indians, LoC. if LoC and the rest of the border stops being the actual border, whether due to India's or Pak's aggression, the carefully constructed worldview of the post-1947 Indian regime risks collapse.

this is why you keep hearing the repeated calls of "moderatism". the deniers need a "moderate" construct in India vs a "radical" construct in Pakistan. they will bash the Paki for all their Jihadi attitude, but will insist with equal fervor that on this side of the mythical border, there is nothing but "moderatism".
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by brihaspati »

abhishek_sharma wrote:There is a book "Communal Riots in India:A Case study of An Indian State".

In this book, following riots in Bihar have been discussed in detail:

1. Ranchi - Hatia Riot (1967)
2. Sursand Riot (1967)
3. Jamshedpur riot (1979)
4. Biharsharif riot (1981)
5. Bhagalpur riot (1989)

I can post a few paragraphs if you guys are interested.
Might not be a good idea to discuss Bihar riots. Each of them are controversial - and Engineer and Pandey will have field monopoly over selections of narratives. To discuss Bihar riots - we have to discuss land-ownership and the criminal-mafia-politico-landowner nexus. The Bhagalpur story is iconic, and the key was a certain mafia don who drew in the theology angle to cover for his own agenda. But both sides were violent - even though only the pond incident is highlighted. This is a turf I know well - and Islamism started there violently, was all about land and women, lost out later with the Mughal expansion, and curious realignments happened within the now partially islamized landed gentry [many of whom were perhaps blood kins of the Hindu gentry]. The silk industry was ana added complication - and coal mafia also sometimes tried to enter the zone.

The riots are a process of taking back land that went over with conversion - a rather harsh and generations later retribution, which I will not judge but am inlcined to say was upon wrong targets. A lot of insitutions have been destroyed - but many rebuilt. However it has left a mark on the territorial contiguity of the institutional network. There are big holes punched now in the spatial domain in that network.

Riots have been tried to be discussed on the forum - and for obvious reasons closed down.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by brihaspati »

devesh ji, I will have a post for your attention in gdf strat scenario.
devesh
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by devesh »

shiv wrote:
Brihaspati these are clever, complex arguments of the highly literate, meant for the equally literate. A Muslim who hums and taps his feet to a tune during a Hindu celebration is declared moderate and no one is going to listen to long winded arguments about why moderation is not moderation.

Why does this fact escape those of us who have complex enough minds to parse the minute nuances that separate real moderation from what only appears to be moderation to those whom we consider less well informed than ourselves?

I have thought about why people who try to explain the danger of islamism are unable to simplify the explanation of the danger to a few words that any person with an attention span of 30 seconds can understand. When there is no killing involved the dangers of Islamism cannot be explained in simple terms.

Technically a dedicated islamist who understands this can postpone/avoid killing and appear moderate knowing fully well that all actions will automatically be deemed moderate until the killing starts. But that is a bad ploy. Killing is too blatant and obvious and in this day and age killing non Muslim opponents invites retaliation.

In the absence of killing islamism still spreads insidiously and "under the radar". That insidious spread is by punishment of Muslims who oppose islam while welcoming others to join and forcing a conversion before marriage. Please pardon me for digressing, but such "under the radar" expansion is being done by Christianism as well with some differences.

The islamism "threat" is visible mainly because of its propensity for violence, and stopping violence is the first step. But when it comes to the "next step" of checking insidious spread, it is not Islamism alone that is doing that. Christainim, again with US aid is right in there in that game.

I had remarked earlier that Islam spread initially because of the military superiority of its early followers. Its later losses were predominantly due to military defeats. Coming to the Indian context, the US arming of the Islamists of Pakistan made Pakistan a serious military threat to India. When Islamism has a military victory, all is lost. We are back to the days of widows having to burn themselves to avoid being taken. I was astounded by what appeared to me as a gap in your analysis as you tried to dismiss the US's arming of Islamists as irrelevant. It was not.

First and foremost, Islamists cannot be allowed military victory. Next the violence must be stemmed. Third the insidious spread must be checked. One follows from the other.

what makes you say that "Killing" is not happening? what happened in Kashmir? was that not killing on a mass scale? and you talk of retaliation. what retaliation? the Hindu has been revoked of that "retaliation". the Hindu, in modern India, has been denuded of the chance to seek vengeance for crimes committed upon his body. what is happening in WB, if not killing and violence? what about Assam? what about Kerala? there have been numerous cases of acts of violence against Hindus. this was happening in kerala as far back as 2001. check this link: http://marad-hindu-massacre.blogspot.com/

it is astonishing to me that even after living through an Islamist sponsored genocide (Kashmiri Hindus) and the majority of Muslims, who are nothing but moderate and enlightened, of course, having remained silent bystanders to that genocide, we still insist of pretensions of "majority are moderate". what good is "moderation", other than wiping my a**, if it sits idly and silently witnesses the genocide of lakhs? I personally don't care for this moderation. you can construct a little temple and worship this mythical "moderation" all you like. I'm not interested, sorry. I think I value my physical safety a bit too much, to have faith in this special kind of "moderation".

and this military defeats business is also interesting. what if some areas of India never heaped such "military defeats" on the sections of Muslim population which exist there? does it mean that modern India has to inflict "military defeat" on these sections of muslim population? Kerala comes to mind. the Vijayanagara Empire never made any sustained foray into this region, on the scale which would have decimated the Samuthiris and started a new era. come to think of it, even the Marathas never really ventured into Kerala that much. does that mean that this lack of "military defeat" on Kerala Muslims is the reason for increased radicalism of Muslims in that part? so, what is you solution? should modern India use the Indian Army to inflict a "military defeat", whatever that means.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by devesh »

brihaspati wrote:devesh ji, I will have a post for your attention in gdf strat scenario.
eagerly awaiting it, saar!
devesh
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by devesh »

abhishek_sharma ji,
try to post anything that you can. I, personally, welcome the gyan. post it and hope for the best, that it doesn't get deleted! and we have enough experienced people to *steer* discussions in the right path, if they feel that certain directions don't need to be further explored on an open forum.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Sanku »

devesh-ji; I would advise that you listen to Shiv-ji, very very carefully, and read between the lines as well.

Humble suggestion.
shiv
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by shiv »

"Islam in India"
From a sociology textbook currently in use
Image
Jarita
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Jarita »

Kya Bakwas log hai - Future leadership of India indeed

http://www.sunday-guardian.com/analysis ... from-india

Rahul Gandhi takes a break from India


Rahul Gandhi | Photo: Reuters

f a little bird which nests in the dovecotes of the stately buildings atop Raisina Hill is correct, Rahul Gandhi decided to take yet another break from India after the just-concluded assembly polls,travelling Business Class early morning of March 9 on a Thai Airways flight out of dusty Delhi into exciting Bangkok. The bird warbled that the Congress Party's Mr Always Correct spent a delightful week at pricey locations in Southeast Asia before getting back to Delhi on March 15 to resume helping Mamma run the party and the country

After absorbing the results of the 5 state assembly elections on March 6, Rahul Gandhi must have been a trifle disconsolate. After all,he spent months advertising the intense affection he feels for India's underprivileged. Despite his exertions,Congress candidates did poorly,including in Punjab,where even his worst critics did not expect Rahul's party to lose, while in Uttarakhand,it was a state BJP leader known for being generous both in the distribution of laddoos to his own party leaders and to rival Congress candidates of at least six BJP contestants who ensured that the Congress Party formed the government in Dehra Dun. Hopefully,memory of the laddoos consumed by them will stay the hand of the BJP leadership against this highly spirited saffronite from the hills of Uttarakhand

If those monitoring movements and safety of the man who was begged by Manmohan Singh to join the Union Cabinet are accurate,Rahul's hair colour became visibly lighter when he finally reached his holiday destination. Of course,the Youth Leader had shed his khadi uniform,wearing instead a faded pair of denims and a sports shirt. North Block avians say that the reason for the colour change is that while in India, Rahul's cranial hair is "blackened out of a tube", so that the 43-year old appears more a native of the subcontinent than a Mediterranean. However,such a conclusion may simply be conjecture, as may be reports that an individual who was "visibly close to Rahul" was waiting for him in Bangkok, with whom he participated in "a host of activities that were enjoyable despite being strenous"

The action sports indulged in by the youth leader and his holiday companion were not revealed by the little bird,who is wary of the many air guns in the vicinity of the Raisina Hill structures,all trained to shoot down gossips such as himself on sight. Following a pattern mandatory in external travels of the Maino-Gandhi's, no one from the media was anywhere near the comfortable locations where Rahul was getting over the disappointment of the just-concluded polls,not that Indian or international journalists have shown any interest in the overseas prereginations of the Maino branch of the Nehru family. And when they do report, taking thewir cue from a Swamy tweet followed up by an AICC spokesperson's clarification,the media mix up New York with London while mentioning the location where another member of the family recently travelled on a corporate jet,this time for reasons other than a holiday. Of course,the corporate jet was supposedly travelling to that destination to ferry a mid-level company official,who spent the flight in a seat close to a toilet

As the Mother of Transparency in India,who waved a magic wand and gave the people the Right to Information Act,hopefully Sonia Gandhi will initiate a Court Diary that tells her adoring people exactly when,where and how the country's post-royalty royalty travels.Till then,we will have to depend on the birds for information about the House of Maino-Gandhi
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Varoon Shekhar »

Islamic writers and apologists use articles such as Subramanya's to show that Islam is indeed the religion of peace, and that it's spread was entirely peaceful. Ignoring it's history in West and Central Asia, and of course North India. In South India, glossing over Vijayanagar and the sack of Madurai( where the loot taken back to Delhi by the Khiljis was greater than anything Mahmud plundered), among other major depredations.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Jarita »

^^^ Such brainwashing is at the same level as Holocaust denial
shiv
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by shiv »

Varoon Shekhar wrote:Islamic writers and apologists use articles such as Subramanya's to show that Islam is indeed the religion of peace, and that it's spread was entirely peaceful. Ignoring it's history in West and Central Asia, and of course North India. In South India, glossing over Vijayanagar and the sack of Madurai( where the loot taken back to Delhi by the Khiljis was greater than anything Mahmud plundered), among other major depredations.
The interesting part is the the way the man just sweeps away the occupation of Sindh like someone going to the loo. And at the bottom (but spilling on to the next page that I did not scan) he contradicts himself. After starting the page saying that islam did not spread by the sword, the bottom of the page says "The uslim rulers in India apart from spreading islam had other aims also: etc i.e. convert, become a dhimmi or fight. On the next page he says how becoming a dhimmi was not possible so basically and he say "Acceptance of Islam or death" were the only choices available

How the heck can this man declare that it was all spread by peace?

Here is Wiki on Momammad bin Qasim in Sindh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_b ... nt_of_Jats
After battles all fighting men were executed and their wives and children enslaved in considerable numbers and the usual fifth of the booty and slaves were sent to Hajjaj.
ramana
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by ramana »

Even Crusader accounts say the same thing about 500 years later (~1200AD). And by Islamist accounts of aftermath of conquest.

Line up the prisoners and behead them sequentially. Women and children sold of as slaves or appropriated.

He is drunk on the syncretic koolaid of psec-intellectuals.

So when he lies he thinks he is not.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Yayavar »

I was 10yrs or so (5th grade) when one of my classmates told me that his father (an IA man) told him of the atrocities and that all this glory of mughal-vughal was all wrong. It was quite a disconnect, and at that age, from what I had heard/read. It was a disconnect inspite of all the Rana Pratap stories I had heard and seen enacted. I just brushed him aside and did not sit with him in the next class. It was much later that I learnt that he/his father was right, but before that I was taught more of the sanitised history in higher classes. This same disconnect is hard for many others.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by nawabs »

viv wrote:I was 10yrs or so (5th grade) when one of my classmates told me that his father (an IA man) told him of the atrocities and that all this glory of mughal-vughal was all wrong. It was quite a disconnect, and at that age, from what I had heard/read. It was a disconnect inspite of all the Rana Pratap stories I had heard and seen enacted. I just brushed him aside and did not sit with him in the next class. It was much later that I learnt that he/his father was right, but before that I was taught more of the sanitised history in higher classes. This same disconnect is hard for many others.
Very true.I was taught more about Mughals then Mauryas or Guptas.There was a time when I used to think that Muslim rule in India was all good except some 'exceptions' like Zaziya.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Yayavar »

It is not so much specifically of Mughal or Sultanat or other rule but of knowing what has transpired. The fear maybe that it will inflame passions, and might have been the fear post partition, but if SA can have truth and reconciliation, I'm sure we can handle events from long past. Similarly we need to know and understand the impact and repercussions of Portugese and English rule.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by nawabs »

viv wrote:It is not so much specifically of Mughal or Sultanat or other rule but of knowing what has transpired. The fear maybe that it will inflame passions, and might have been the fear post partition, but if SA can have truth and reconciliation, I'm sure we can handle events from long past. Similarly we need to know and understand the impact and repercussions of Portugese and English rule.
Yes,we need to know and come to peace with our past before our nation can march forward to achieve what we have long lost.Our future cannot be based on a manipulated past.We need to know the truth about what mistakes were committed in past which enabled the british to rape our country.Because History always repeats itself for those who do not learn from it.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by nawabs »

Finally the Government is moving after Supreme Court gave a nod on river interlinking.
7 mega water routes identified for private investment

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 025778.ece
Seeking to tap the huge potential of the Inland Waterways Transport (IWT), the Prime Minister's Office has identified seven mega projects and corridors all over the country — entailing an outlay of Rs. 2,100 crore — for private sector investment in the 12 Plan. This would throw open new opportunities in transportation of bulk cargo, including imported and domestic coal, and food grains through the inland waterway system.

At a recent meeting held in the office of Principal Secretary to the Prime Minister, Pulok Chatterjee, it was decided that major thrust should be given to attract private investment in these seven corridors. The major beneficiaries would be NTPC's upcoming power plants at Kahalgaon and Barh in Bihar and Bongaigaon in Assam.

Corridors for transportation of food grains of the Food Corporation of India (FCI) from North India/Kolkata to Tripura via Ashuganj and within the State of Assam; containers between Pandu (Guwahati) and Kolkata; shipment of pipes of ONGC from Kolkata to the north east; ferrying of fertilizers on National Waterway (NW-1) between Allahabad/Varanasi and Kolkata; perishable cargo (produced in Meghalaya and West Garo Hills) from South bank of Brahmaputra to Dhubri on North bank; North/South bank connectivity through roll on-roll off ferries are the seven projects identified for private sector investment.

The transportation of coal through NW-1 is for NTPC's super critical power plant at Barh in Bihar where it is setting up a 3300 MW power plant in two stages — 3x660 MW and 2x660 MW. The annual coal requirement for the Barh plant would be around 16 million tonnes per annum. The coal linkage is from Amrapali block of North Karanpura coal fields, which is to be transported through the rail route. This coal can be transported through NW-1 through IWT. It is estimated that this facility will require an investment of around Rs. 1,200 crore.

Another investment of around Rs. 550 crore has been identified for the IWT terminal at Jogighopa with a coal handling facility and for transportation of food grains from FCI by IWT mode in Kolkata-Tripura (through Ashuganj) route. At present, FCI food grains are moving by rail and road to the NE States and the same could be transported effectively by IWT. Food grains could also be moved from Kolkata to Tripura by IWT mode by transhipment at Ashuganj in Bangladesh in view of circuitous road and rail connectivity to Tripura.

Similarly, a Rs.120-crore investment project has been identified for transportation of containers by IWT mode on the Kolkata-Pandu-Kolkata and Kolkata-Patna-Kolkata routes. The PMO has also pitched for transportation of pipes and other cargo of Oil and Natural Gas Corporation and Oil India Ltd from Kolkata to Dibrugarh, Jorhat, Karimganj, Agartala via Ashuganj. Another corridor identified is for transportation of fertilizers by IWT mode in Varanasi-Kolkata.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by abhishek_sharma »

Views from the Right
Rights and Wrongs

The RSS weekly, Organiser, has taken a strong stand on the resolution against Sri Lanka being moved at the United Nations Human Rights Council, saying India should not support this US-sponsored resolution.

The lead editorial contends that the United States, whose track record is “pathetic” when it comes to human rights violations, now wants to intervene because it will open up the possibility of a similar role in India, which faces internal problems in Kashmir and the Northeast, from Naxalites and Islamic extremists, and has had to deal with campaigns led by “so-called human rights activists”.

“India should take an unequivocal stand against the resolution being backed by the US to condemn Sri Lanka. If India baulks today and adopts a neutral position, it would find itself in the dock one day. India, by its geopolitical position, must take a robust stand against the West interfering in issues not concerning them directly,” says the Organiser. “There is no case for the US or any of the European nations to dictate to a democratically elected government or try to humiliate it in a world forum that belongs as much to us as it does to them,” it says. The RSS stand, significantly, is at variance with that of the BJP, which has supported the UNHRC resolution.

“Two years after the civil war in Sri Lanka ended with the decimation of the terrorist outfit LTTE, the United States of America is poking around the scab to reopen healing wounds. What else could be the intention of the resolution being moved by it at the UNHR Council session?” asks the Organiser.

It says that the LTTE was no hapless, unarmed group of peaceful activists, but well-trained cadres, armed to the teeth with the latest machine guns, rocket launchers and tanks. “The last few weeks of war that are under scrutiny now, witnessed a pitched battle in which both sides killed and got killed unrestrained. The number of child-soldiers Prabhakaran recruited and trained has not been documented. Boys and girls were picked at an unsuspecting age, fed on a liberal dose of LTTE literature enumerating the torture and humiliation of the Tamils by the Lankans and were prepared to fight on the command of well-structured LTTE ‘army’. Several thousands of Tamils were killed by LTTE cadres for defying the leadership. But the US or any other nation did not raise the issue of war crimes then,” says the Organiser.

IT TAKES A VILLAGE

AFTER a considerable gap, the Organiser carries an article lauding the efforts of former BJP ideologue and RSS pracharak K.N. Govindacharya demanding that 7 per cent of the Union budget be allotted to gram panchayats for development. Govindacharya, who has been in self-imposed exile from the BJP for the last 12 years, had recently staged a three-day dharna at Jantar Mantar. He has argued that since 70 per cent of the population lives in villages, the demand for granting 7 per cent of the total budget for their development is justified. “In the year 2011-2012, the Union budget was of Rs 12 lakh crore and there are 2.5 lakh gram panchayats in the country. By this calculation, every village will get Rs 30 lakh that will increase year by year. According to the people engaged in rural development activities, this financial support is sufficient to rejuvenate the villages” Govindacharya told the Organiser.

DISASTER ON WHEELS

THE Panchjanya editorial makes a scathing comment on the railway budget and its steep fare hikes, moved by then railway minister Dinesh Trivedi and the politics behind Mukul Roy replacing him. Instead of discussing the impact of the budget and the fare hikes, the UPA leadership had to firefight the political crisis, following TMC chief Mamata Banerjee’s diktat that the anti-aam admi minister must go, says the Panchjanya. “The crisis showed once again the disunity within the UPA and the helplessness of the prime minister, who has had to comply with the wishes of alliance partners. How can such a weak prime minister and this government leading the country work for the good of the people?” says the Panchjanya. It adds Mamata Banerjee herself never did much as railway minister, being more engaged with West Bengal politics.

The Panchjanya maintains that Indian Railways has always been the biggest victim of politics, with ministers using it to fulfil their regional aspirations and politics. It says the prime minister has again chosen to remain silent, giving into coalition compulsions, letting the railways become a pawn in the hands of a single Mamata Banerjee. A few days ago, Dinesh Trivedi had said that if real change is to brought in the railways, it should be separated from politics and run in a professional manner. The attempt to do this probably cost Trivedi his job, says the Panchjanya.
shiv
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by shiv »

viv wrote:I'm sure we can handle events from long past.
+1 to that.

You see the attitude that has been taken from the time of my own school education right up to this day is that somehow Hindus can handle their past and you can push through reconciliation and reforms, but Muslims might ask for another Pakistan or do another Direct Action day if they are touched. The attitudes have not been helped by Pakistan sitting on the side, looking into India and trying to encourage direct action days all the time. It's not just Pakistan who sit and think they are a separate electorate within India. Indians too keep worrying about what that separate electorate might say.

Made for each other.. :roll:
member_19686
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by member_19686 »

Education minister gives Rs 3 lakh each to private madrassas
TNN | Mar 21, 2012, 09.42AM IST

GUWAHATI: To upgrade the khariji (private) madrassas in different parts of the Assam, state education minister Himanta Biswa Sarma distributed Rs 3 lakh each to 640 different khariji (private) madrassas at a ceremonial distribution ceremony held at the Guwahati Municipal Corporation ( GMC) auditorium on Tuesday.

The state government will provide financial assistance to around 700 khariji madrassas in the state under chief minister's special scheme.

Each madrassas are supposed to get 5 lakhs in total, out of which, Rs 3 lakhs each has already been distributed
to about 21 madrassas in six districts, Jorhat, Karbi Anglong, Morigaon, Kamrup, Sonitpur and Darrang.

Himanta said, "Education has been given the highest priority in every religion, but mere religious education is not enough. Besides this, the students have to keep up with the changing times. If we can introduce vocational courses in madrassas, it would really benefit the students."

He added, "This is the first time that the khariji (private) madrassas are being provided government assistance. It is sad to know that most of the private madrassas are running purely on charity money. The government has formed a core committee to upgrade these madrassas."

Forest minister Rockybul Hussain, who was also present, said, "It is important to introduce modern subjects like English and Computer Science in the madrassas."

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... ttarget=no
Aditya_V
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Aditya_V »

Surasena wrote:
Education minister gives Rs 3 lakh each to private madrassas
TNN | Mar 21, 2012, 09.42AM IST

GUWAHATI: To upgrade the khariji (private) madrassas in different parts of the Assam, state education minister Himanta Biswa Sarma distributed Rs 3 lakh each to 640 different khariji (private) madrassas at a ceremonial distribution ceremony held at the Guwahati Municipal Corporation ( GMC) auditorium on Tuesday.

The state government will provide financial assistance to around 700 khariji madrassas in the state under chief minister's special scheme.

Each madrassas are supposed to get 5 lakhs in total, out of which, Rs 3 lakhs each has already been distributed
to about 21 madrassas in six districts, Jorhat, Karbi Anglong, Morigaon, Kamrup, Sonitpur and Darrang.

Himanta said, "Education has been given the highest priority in every religion, but mere religious education is not enough. Besides this, the students have to keep up with the changing times. If we can introduce vocational courses in madrassas, it would really benefit the students."

He added, "This is the first time that the khariji (private) madrassas are being provided government assistance. It is sad to know that most of the private madrassas are running purely on charity money. The government has formed a core committee to upgrade these madrassas."

Forest minister Rockybul Hussain, who was also present, said, "It is important to introduce modern subjects like English and Computer Science in the madrassas."

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... ttarget=no
Can these Govt's give similair aid to Vedic Patsalas also. OOps that would be communal.
Aditya_V
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Aditya_V »

[Double post]
Philip
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Philip »

http://the-diplomat.com/2012/03/23/indi ... dium=email

India’s Military Inferiority Complex

March 23, 2012
By Trefor Moss

Indian officials are preoccupied by China’s growing military power. They would do better to fix their own incoherent defense establishment.
ramana
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by ramana »

neel wrote:A study of the sources of the skewed sex ratio in India (among other countries). Highlights include that only 11% of the "missing" women were victims of sex-selective abortion. More (14%) are attributable to excess female deaths due to injuries (i.e. violence against women). Even more still (42%) are attributable to higher female:male ratios of the fatality rates of chronic diseases among Indians relative to Western populations. Also, 23% are due to higher female:male ratios of the fatality rates for communicable diseases. A further 8% are due to maternal mortality and 2% due to poor nutrition.

So a total of 65% of the "missing" women are due to higher female:male ratios of fatality rates for diseases that effect both men and women in India as compared to the West. Is this due to better medical treatment given to men than to women? If so, this is a 6x more pressing problem than sex-selective abortion. It is even 4x more pressing than violence against women. Also, if so, it may explain why the skew in the sex ratio declined so much (~27% per the latest round of NSSO), since there was so much room for improvement.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Atri »

Very important video. Interview of Gen V K Singh. A candid interview.



Must watch and be studied.. Please read between the lines what Gen. V K Singh says.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by JwalaMukhi »

ramana
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by ramana »

Atri, Please tell us what you think of the interview. Its a open forum and not a guided democracy.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Pranav »

brihaspati wrote: Those who think otherwise - that there are well adjusted individuals too - are speaking the truth too : but again it is based on their own anecdotal experience.. ...

The question that is never explored is that - what are the social realities through which one gains such anecdotal experience? How many non-Muslims have long-term exposure to the inner workings of Muslim society? How many of the deniers are in such great confidence of mullahcracy and the mullahcracy's networks into Muslim society - that what is not meant for non-Muslim eyes and ears - are actually exposed to the deniers?
Mullahcracy has to be marked for ideological elimination.

As regards well adjusted individuals ... there are many Muslim followers of Baba Ramdev for example, or members of the RSS affiliated Muslim Rashtriya Manch.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Atri »



Part two of General VK Singh Interview.. Again, highly recommended..
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Varoon Shekhar »

This is a posting from a timesofindia message board, by one "Raghavendra". Is the description accurate? Are there American talk shows that slight/insult India, and boost China, with even CEO's of multinationals( that operate profitably in India) joining in to poke fun at India? Absolutely appalling, if true.

"Recently there was a Charlie Rose talkshow here in USA. To please the Chinese guest speaker, almost all of the participants insulted India. But when an acdemic told them that India can afford her own comparatively slower space of advancement ebcause INDIA needn't change her DEMOCRACY, POLITICAL SYSTEM, CONSTITUTION, BANKING SYSTEM or CIVIL RIGHTS and has every foundational structure already in place, unlike China. So he is not very much worried about India's slow pace. At that those inimical smiling faces went blank. So take your own time, don't be pressurized by foreigners because they want to make profits immediately. Yes, if you work hard, and your grandchildren will become millionaires. That should be the target. Then if God sees your motivation, he will accelerate the pace and make you a millionaire in your lifetime. IMPORTANT: Remember, in this talkshow the CEO of Yum Brands was poking fun of India despite Indians filling his pocket through 160 KFCs and 215 Pizza Hut restaurants with their hard-earned money. Beware of foreign CEOs who smile at you and then give little worth to your money for the simple reason that you don't look like Chinese."
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by anmol »

Varoon Shekhar wrote:This is a posting from a timesofindia message board, by one "Raghavendra". Is the description accurate? Are there American talk shows that slight/insult India, and boost China, with even CEO's of multinationals( that operate profitably in India) joining in to poke fun at India? Absolutely appalling, if true.

"Recently there was a Charlie Rose talkshow here in USA. To please the Chinese guest speaker, almost all of the participants insulted India. But when an acdemic told them that India can afford her own comparatively slower space of advancement ebcause INDIA needn't change her DEMOCRACY, POLITICAL SYSTEM, CONSTITUTION, BANKING SYSTEM or CIVIL RIGHTS and has every foundational structure already in place, unlike China. So he is not very much worried about India's slow pace. At that those inimical smiling faces went blank. So take your own time, don't be pressurized by foreigners because they want to make profits immediately. Yes, if you work hard, and your grandchildren will become millionaires. That should be the target. Then if God sees your motivation, he will accelerate the pace and make you a millionaire in your lifetime. IMPORTANT: Remember, in this talkshow the CEO of Yum Brands was poking fun of India despite Indians filling his pocket through 160 KFCs and 215 Pizza Hut restaurants with their hard-earned money. Beware of foreign CEOs who smile at you and then give little worth to your money for the simple reason that you don't look like Chinese."
This the episode: http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/12245
Varoon Shekhar
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Varoon Shekhar »

Thanks anmol. It wasn't anywhere near as bad as the poster "Raghavendra" said. In fact, it wasn't bad at all. Even the CEO of Yum wasn't really making fun of India. And the other 2 commentators said favourable things.

In this particular case( I stress, this case) the Indian was really being hyper-sensitive bordering on paranoid.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by JwalaMukhi »

INDIA needn't change her DEMOCRACY, POLITICAL SYSTEM, CONSTITUTION, BANKING SYSTEM or CIVIL RIGHTS and has every foundational structure already in place, unlike China.
India needs quite a lot of improvements. There is need to change from the governance being from being exclusive, rent-seeking predatory role to inclusive and getting out of the way from development. Just singing democracy doesn't make it any better. Given a good hand if it is played poorly more often performs substantially worser than playing best given a bad hand. Do not have to underestimate others who are making the best use of a bad situation.

India definitely has been underperforming due to special interests that has hijacked the system, even with a very good hand. Complacency is road to ruin and a fuel to further empowerment of nehruvian style of functioning.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Hari Seldon »

Missing Women: Age and Disease (pdf link)

Very interesting academic paper, myth-busting and all that. Lemme excerpt just the abstract:
Relative to developed countries and some parts of the developing world, most notably sub-Saharan Africa, there are far fewer women than men in India and China. It has been argued that as many as a 100 million women could be missing. The possibility of gender bias at birth and the mistreatment of young girls are widely regarded as key explanations. We provide a decomposition of these missing women by age and cause of death. While we do not dispute the existence of severe gender bias at young ages, our computations yield some striking new findings: (1) the vast majority of missing women in India and a significant proportion of those in China are of adult age; (2) as a proportion of the total female population, the number of missing women is largest in sub-Saharan Africa, and the absolute numbers are comparable to those for India and China; (3) almost all the missing women stem from disease-by-disease comparisons and not from the changing composition of disease, as described by the epidemiological transition. Finally, using historical data, we argue that a comparable proportion of women was missing at the start of the 20th century in the United States, just as they are in India, China, and sub-Saharan Africa today
Hmmm .... or what?
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Prem »

India, South Korea boost business, defence ties; ease visa norms
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/237 ... iness.html
India and South Korea have targetted doubling their annual trade to $40 billion by 2015, even as they boosted defence ties and signed a pact to ease visa norms to promote greater business and people-to people to contact.Bilateral trade has risen by 65 percent over the past two years since the implementation of our Comprehensive Economic Partnership Agreement. We have therefore set a new target of $40 billion by 2015," Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said at a joint media interaction with South Korean President Lee Myung Bak after their talks here."We also agreed to accelerate work in progress to upgrade the Agreement and make it more ambitious," added Manmohan Singh, who is on a two-day official visit to South Korea, after which he will attend the March 26-27 Nuclear Security Conference here.The talks, Manmohan Singh said, were "aimed at adding momentum and substance to our Strategic Partnership. Ours is a partnership built on shared values that provide a firm foundation for further development", adding the two leaders "agreed that our strong economic ties are fundamental to our growing interaction".
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