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PostPosted: 22 Mar 2012 18:58 
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Location: Bharathavarshey Bharathakhandey Jumbudweepey Kaveryaha Uttare Teerey
If it comes to converting civilian planes to tankers then we have a boatload of planes we can get from Kingfisher airlines :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: 22 Mar 2012 20:27 
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they could be better used to haul palletized military cargo and personnel if onlee the IAF would adopt that practice. not everything needs the rough field and STOL abilities of dedicated mil transports like C130/AN32/IL76/C17. they will do fine flying into the major concreted airports which they do everyday incl jodhpur, bagdogra, leh, tezpur, port blair, dabolim, pune for instance all shared with civilian ops.


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PostPosted: 22 Mar 2012 20:55 
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Yogi_G wrote:
If it comes to converting civilian planes to tankers then we have a boatload of planes we can get from Kingfisher airlines :mrgreen:


Planes belong to the creditors and not to the people of India. KFA has tax liabilities to Indian govt, but on top of that it has $1.3 billion of debt. Moreover it has massive future payments towards new aircrafts.

Anyone wanting to get hold of those aircraft will have to pay off the govt, the creditors, the fuel companies, the aircraft manufacturers and then have to pay large sums to convert the aircraft to a cargo configuration. Awful waste of capital!


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PostPosted: 22 Mar 2012 21:24 
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JTull wrote:
Yogi_G wrote:
If it comes to converting civilian planes to tankers then we have a boatload of planes we can get from Kingfisher airlines :mrgreen:


Planes belong to the creditors and not to the people of India. KFA has tax liabilities to Indian govt, but on top of that it has $1.3 billion of debt. Moreover it has massive future payments towards new aircrafts.

Anyone wanting to get hold of those aircraft will have to pay off the govt, the creditors, the fuel companies, the aircraft manufacturers and then have to pay large sums to convert the aircraft to a cargo configuration. Awful waste of capital!


JTull, I know, it was a tongue in cheek comment, my 400 KFA shares have driven me crazy :twisted:. Yup they dont make financial sense at all. BTW, most of KFA planes are dry leased, not outright purchased. so if anyone wants to get them they will just continue to pay the lease after possession. In defence terms leasing is a very attractive with options to purchase at a later point. Like India's Nerpa.


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PostPosted: 22 Mar 2012 21:27 
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shiv wrote:
rohitvats wrote:
I was hoping that this one project - IJT - would leverage the learning in LCA program and we'll be able to showcase results in aviation domain. Sigh!!!


Rohit. Betting one bottle of Hundred Pipers the next time we meet. Chorgupta is wrong and gassing as usual. No proof. No "inside info" Just a hunch.


My sentiments, too shiv saar and the drink(s) will be on me.


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PostPosted: 22 Mar 2012 22:30 
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Austin wrote:

33 % composite by weight is quite good even by todays modern standards , 500 Kg weight savings will compensate weight issue that it has faced in its early development.

They should work in parallel with the low cost carrier and begin pitching Saras as means for short distance regional transport which needs minimum airport infrastructure to operate .....commercial sale would add value to the aircraft and boost confidence of HAL and End Customer.


Yes, it is a lot of weight for a plane the size of the Saras. the 500 kg weight savings and the increased power of the engines from 800 shp to 1200 shp will make a big difference to the performance of the Saras.


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PostPosted: 22 Mar 2012 23:22 
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Kartik wrote:
Yes, it is a lot of weight for a plane the size of the Saras. the 500 kg weight savings and the increased power of the engines from 800 shp to 1200 shp will make a big difference to the performance of the Saras.


It should but i think i had read before that Saras was already quite over weight and shaving extra flab was already on the anvil , so its possible the 500 kg loss could be more than just composite.

Extra power means its good for hot and high operation , so its a great boon for NE operators and short range regional operation in far North and West, hopefully they are actively pursuing civil operators beyond the military customers.


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PostPosted: 23 Mar 2012 06:55 
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if you're on microsoft flight simulator, here is the scenery for Bagdogra Airport

http://flyawaysimulation.com/downloads/ ... t-scenery/


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PostPosted: 27 Mar 2012 20:47 
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JBT AeroTech awarded $5.5 million for Halvorsen 25K Loaders for Indian Air Force C-17A Globemaster III


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PostPosted: 27 Mar 2012 21:15 
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IAF’s sourcing spares for MIG planes from outside Russia “wrong”: Envoy


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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2012 06:58 
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karan_mc wrote:


Sir, you actually publish such trash?


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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2012 16:18 
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Raytheon begins Munitions Control Unit part procurement For IAF Jaguar Darin II upgrades


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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2012 16:53 
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looks like a huge PGM order is imminent to upteeth the Jaguars.


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PostPosted: 29 Mar 2012 19:32 
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Upgradation of Mirage Aircraft

Quote:
Contracts have been signed with M/s Thales, France and M/s Dassault Aviation, France, along with M/s Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) for upgrade of the Mirage 2000 aircraft of the Indian Air Force (IAF). A contract has also been signed with M/s MBDA, France, for procurement of air to air missiles for the Mirage 2000 aircraft.

The cost of the contract for upgrade of the Mirage 2000 with M/s Thales and M/s Dassault Aviation is Euro 1470 Million, while the cost of the contract with M/s HAL is Rs.2020 crore. The cost of the contract for procurement of the missiles from M/s MBDA, France, is Euro 958,980,822.44.

The entire upgradation of the Mirage aircraft is scheduled to be completed by 2021. Delivery of MICA missiles is scheduled between 2015 and 2019.


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PostPosted: 29 Mar 2012 22:34 
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saps wrote:
Austin wrote:
hat would be the best thing that can happen , I recollect looking at HTT-35 mockup and its superb cockpit view with those bubble canopy .... why they should import a trainer is something beyond me when way back in 1995 HAL has been displaying HTT-35 mockup.

Even though i fully agree that we should buy desi, however in its entire life span of at least two decade HPT 32 produced by HAL could not be sorted out for its engine cuts.
Come on lets be realistic, wishing to do something and delivering a reliable product are miles apart.

100% agreed. Nationalistic Pride & Patriotism has nothing to do with producing quality AC...each and every single one (not just the initial batch).

Also need more players in the AC Manufacturing segment. Healthy competition for government funding might yield better products??? Wishful thinking for now.


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PostPosted: 29 Mar 2012 22:40 
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Yogi_G wrote:
So the source of smoke is just like good old smoke --> incomplete combustion? If I am not wrong incomplete combustion means reduced thrust from engine in those altitude regimes where engines get smoky?

It can also be the quality of Jet Fuel.

What is the standard Jet Fuel for AF?


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PostPosted: 29 Mar 2012 22:49 
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Indian Air Force To Take Delivery Of All 10 Boeing C-17 By Aug 2014 : Boeing

Americans sure do deliver on time :D


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PostPosted: 30 Mar 2012 10:48 
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venku_Raj wrote:


I think we are comparing apples and oranges here, C-130's and C-17 have been produced in huge nos with limited customization. Cant be compared to Gorhskov, Mig 29K or scorpenes. The Russian joint head of Brahmos has claimed that Brahmos will be fired from Scorpenes, such customisations might not have been part of the original deal, as of now if things go well we even want the Indian AIP to be integrated with the last 2 scorpenes.

Are the Americans delivering Boeing 787 on time to Air India? I hope the P-8I's which look on schedule get delivered on time.

Equipment with GSQR's which are futuristic or cutting edge will always have delays, I don't think the IAF's C-130J or C-17's special -ops and transport planes had any technology hurdles and have been used by American forces for a long time.

Its like saying in the past Soviets delivered Mig 23, Mig 21, T-72's on time. These items were sold to us well after they were inducted in Soviet forces.


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PostPosted: 31 Mar 2012 08:02 
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Aditya_V wrote:
Are the Americans delivering Boeing 787 on time to Air India? I hope the P-8I's which look on schedule get delivered on time.

Equipment with GSQR's which are futuristic or cutting edge will always have delays, I don't think the IAF's C-130J or C-17's special -ops and transport planes had any technology hurdles and have been used by American forces for a long time.

Its like saying in the past Soviets delivered Mig 23, Mig 21, T-72's on time. These items were sold to us well after they were inducted in Soviet forces.


US deliveries worldwide have been robust in terms of time. They have one of the most advanced weapons and mil complex. They have issues perfecting Fifth gen types, but have shown the capability to deliver technologies below that in record time. Rest of the world struggles to deliver what US delivers with ease.


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PostPosted: 31 Mar 2012 13:46 
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It's not as if Americans are late in delivering P-8Is for IN, which is a new aircraft. They surely know how to estimate the time of delivery at the time of signing the contract. That must be acknowledged.


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PostPosted: 03 Apr 2012 15:46 
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From a silent hill, these men defend India's skies


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PostPosted: 04 Apr 2012 22:13 
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Lockheed bags deal to supply laser-guided bombs to IAF

Since the article mentions "bunker-busting" version of Paveway II, it is most likely the GBU-10 kit that is used on a 2,000-lb bomb. IAF has ordered an initial batch of around 100 kits which will most likely be followed by few hundred more once integrated w/ Jaguars (with a new Raytheon's Munitions Control Units (MCU)), inducted and validated. Rafale is already qualified with GBU-10.

Paveway II Dual Mode Laser Guided Bomb (DMLGB)
Quote:
The Lockheed Martin Paveway II Dual Mode Laser Guided Bomb (DMLGB) is the next generation laser guided bomb kit that uses the existing Paveway II Laser Guided Bomb infrastructure and upgrades the existing Computer Control Group (CCG) system with an Inertial Navigation System/Global Positioning System (INS/GPS), an all-weather guidance system that provide dual-mode guidance capability. With the combination of the upgraded INS/GPS system, existing SAL (semi-active laser) seeker and anti-jam technology, the DMLGB minimizes collateral damage and improves mission effectiveness by providing precision strike capabilities in all weather at extended standoff ranges. The DMLGB is effective against fixed, relocatable and moving targets.

The Paveway II GBU-16 kits are used on 1,000-lb bombs, while GBU-10 and GBU-12 kits are used on 2,000-lb and 500-lb bombs, respectively. Lockheed Martin kits are capable of employment by F/A-18, F-16, F-15, F-117 and other aircraft currently configured to carry and release Laser Guided Bombs. The SAL seeker technology and upgraded INS/GPS guidance system are mature, affordable and proven in combat.


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PostPosted: 05 Apr 2012 07:14 
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Does IAF have 2000lbs bombs? Is the Jag qualified for 2000lbs bombs?


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PostPosted: 05 Apr 2012 07:31 
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imo it will be GBU-16. our std weapon is 1000lb while USAF preferred 2000lb in the past.

Jags can carry 6 x 1000lb normal bombs - 4 under the fuselage and 2 under the wings, with 2 drop tanks and 2 AAMs as a peak load I think. but usually might carry 4 x 1000lb.
the Mirage2000 is also known to carry 6 x 1000lb and infact used such a loadout in the attack on paki supply dump in kargil. I recall a press conf saying 4 M2K had dropped 24 bombs on target.


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PostPosted: 05 Apr 2012 08:24 
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GD, The US 2000 Lbs bomb is called the Mk 84 bomb. It was designed by Heinnaman of McDouglas Aircraft. He came up with a bomb family from 500, 1000, 2000 lbs. The units consist of the basic mid section with standard tail section and a bunch of fuses forward and tail. They are called GP or general purpose bombs with a lot of blast. They have some good concrete penetration capability. The Brits use the 1000lbs wih forged steel casing which is even better concrete penetration capability.

Some where in mid 70s the USAF wanted hard target penetration bombs. And there was a initial model called APW Advanced Penetration Weapon. That evolved into the I -series of which I-2000 was shown in the Gulf War I.

Anyway massa has given a lot of Paveway and JDAM kits to TSP.

I once talked to the designer of some of these. He said kinetic energy based bombs will kill the target dead. One hit one target. All those shaped charge bombs of UK look glamorous but are not effective. Nothing beats big Mo ie momentum.


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PostPosted: 05 Apr 2012 09:20 
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^^^

Before PGM capability, large bombs (1,000lb/2,000lb) were the preferred choice. This allowed even a near miss to destroy the target and anything around it. But together with the accuracy of PGM kits and collateral damage sensitivities, there is a trend to use smaller bombs (225lb & 500lb) for most tasks. Large bombs, especially in the 2,000lb+ category, are the preferred choice for bunker-busting of deep & hardened bunkers.


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PostPosted: 05 Apr 2012 11:16 
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But why these dual mode guidance kits from Unkil, unless we get milspec GPS signal from Unkil as well ? Are we getting that along with the package ?


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PostPosted: 05 Apr 2012 14:13 
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Second Embraer EMB 145I aircraft for DRDO AEW&C flies

Phuto :

Embraer EMB 145I aircraft for DRDO AEW&C


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PostPosted: 05 Apr 2012 14:44 
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Location: havildar-major, 1st JSOC munna detachment.
i think we r getting laser guvided only not jdam gps guidance kits


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PostPosted: 05 Apr 2012 21:40 
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vina wrote:
But why these dual mode guidance kits from Unkil, unless we get milspec GPS signal from Unkil as well ? Are we getting that along with the package ?


Dual-mode is required for all-weather capability.


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PostPosted: 05 Apr 2012 22:24 
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Location: havildar-major, 1st JSOC munna detachment.
maybe khan is willing to sell JDAMs and the associated mil-grade GPS signal to anyone, with the catch being only the JDAM seekers can decode it from a black box, while any other navigational instrument in our armed forces cannot.

if we had mil grade GPS signals we would not have needed to pay Rus for access to mil grade GLONASS signal for use by armed forces.
as such all our planes and missiles will use glonass in general for precision navigation.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 726888.ece
A day before Prime Minister Manmohan Singh arrived here last weekend for his annual summit with the Russian leadership, an Indian defence team of scientists and defence brass returned to Delhi after inking an agreement for receiving precision signals from Glonass, Russian constellation of satellites.

These signals will allow missiles, including those fired from nuclear submarine Chakra, to strike within half a metre of distant targets.


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PostPosted: 06 Apr 2012 03:50 
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khans's mil grade gps can be snapped in a second - all algos built in. so want khan grade precision, get close with khan, and obey his orders.

so, technical strategy for implementing this could be:
long term - gagan (high)
mid term - glonass (near high)
short term - gps (low precision)

Now, we can have all three fusions. that would add weight to the system. but we can build some algo like:

arrange for high precision gps,
if we get it without condoms, then use it -

if khan snaps the signals, then switch (context) to using glonass,
and validate coordinates are withing non-mil grade gps - cya to check if glonass is not cheating us

and get to our own gagan asap


Last edited by SaiK on 06 Apr 2012 03:59, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 06 Apr 2012 03:56 
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vian, Even though its called dual-mode what it means is there is an INS which gets its update form the aircraft and it also has laser seeker. Its not a true JDAM but quasi JDAM as it can get inertial update from host a/c and has the laser for clear weather attack.


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PostPosted: 06 Apr 2012 17:06 
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not sure if correct thread but got a glimpse in the TOI (New delhi edition) that ACM Fontaine died earlier today...any links or validity in this?


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PostPosted: 06 Apr 2012 17:20 
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^That would be this day last year 06 Apr 2011.


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PostPosted: 12 Apr 2012 17:36 
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TOI is reporting a HAL helicopter has landed on top on apartment complex in Bengaluru.


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PostPosted: 12 Apr 2012 17:46 
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Aditya_V wrote:
TOI is reporting a HAL helicopter has landed on top on apartment complex in Bengaluru.


Trainer chopper makes emergency landing on building:
Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd trainer chopper makes an emergency landing on top of a building called Maitri Apartments, in Bangalore. Both pilots are safe.


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PostPosted: 12 Apr 2012 19:40 
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Dawn has more detailed report than indian papers?

I found the Indian link.

NDTV


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PostPosted: 13 Apr 2012 11:57 
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What has happened to the much ballyhooed IJT Sitara . No news about it at all!


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PostPosted: 13 Apr 2012 12:48 
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^^^^

The last news i heard from a chaiwala is that they are setting up the assembly line for IJT in Kanpur.


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