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PostPosted: 23 Mar 2012 20:30 
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Will France repatriate its Moslems the way they did with the Roma?
Tolerating Islam: “He grabbed her by the hair and then shot her in the head”
Quote:
There is no denying, however, that at the nub of it, those wars are all about radical Islamists, who can’t accommodate themselves to the modern world.

And it’s also about the people who indulge them.

France has been, until now, a modern-day playground for Islamists who hearken back to the days of yore when they waged a siege on the gates of Vienna and raided the Russian and Georgian steppes for Caucasian slaves for the Ottoman Empire.

For years France has helped disseminate the lie that everything wrong in the Arab world is the fault of Israel and the United States. They welcomed Islamists into their country.

But now Merah may have brought France to its knees in ways not intended.

“This week's killings at a Jewish school and the link with the earlier killings of three soldiers in the same southwestern region of France initially prompted a fragile truce in France's election campaigning,” reports Reuters. “Political analysts say the Toulouse killings could transform the contest in the few weeks left before the two-round ballot, which takes place on April 22 and May 6.”

The beneficiaries will be those who have warned against a permissive multiculturalism that celebrates the permanent minority against the common sense of the shifting majority.
[...]
But in Europe these are not normal times.

Not since discontent swept through Italy, Germany and Spain in the 1920s and 1930s, leading to the rise of fascism, has Europe faced so grave a cultural crisis.


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PostPosted: 23 Mar 2012 20:50 
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in the aftermath of the toulouse shootings, sarko's popularity has increased sharply (matter well handled), and hollande's rating declined. marine le pen of the far right has declined and the socialist/communist candidate has increased

suggests that the french are not lurching to the right because of this, which doesn't feel normal


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PostPosted: 23 Mar 2012 22:27 
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Bali attack plot shows Indonesia terror threat evolving

By Olivia Rondonuwu and Stuart Grudgings
JAKARTA/KUALA LUMPUR | Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:00am EDT

(Reuters) - A foiled plot by suspected Islamic militants to attack and bomb targets in Bali, including a bar popular with tourists, marks an escalation of the violent threat in Indonesia as authorities race to stay ahead of rapidly evolving armed groups.

Five men were shot dead in police raids on Sunday on the island where nightclub bombings in 2002 killed 202 people - mostly foreign tourists - and forced the world's largest Muslim country to confront violent Islamist groups on its soil.

Pictures of a villa where some of the men were shot dead, showing pools of blood on the floor of a garden hut, starkly illustrated the return of violence to the mostly Hindu island where militants last launched deadly bomb attacks in 2005.

Ansyaad Mbai, head of Indonesia's National Counter Terrorism Agency, said the men had plans to bomb targets on the island, including the beach-front "La Vida Loca" bar. Police initially said the suspects were planning armed raids on money changers, jewellers and the bar, partly to raise money for future attacks.

"This group was planning not only armed attacks against those targets but also bombings," Mbai said.

"At this stage we could not be sure of the scale but high or low, bombs are dangerous, especially in Bali. The impact would be huge," he added.

Attacks in recent years have mostly been small-scale, but the latest plot suggests terror groups may be trying to raise their profile at a time when Indonesia's economy is booming and it aims to play a bigger role on the world stage.

Bali held a high-profile regional summit last November attended by U.S. President Barack Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, among other leaders, and is scheduled to host the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation summit next year.

LATENT THREAT

Indonesia has scored notable successes in its battle against Islamic militancy since the 2002 bombing, arresting about 600 suspects and heavily disrupting the activities of the Jemaah Islamiah JI.L group and its offshoots that police said had carried out the attacks.

But there has been a steady stream of violence as militants have reacted to the crackdown by splitting into smaller groups and targeted security forces and government officials.

Police officers were attacked last year in a mosque suicide bombing, drive-by shootings and by an attempt to poison drinking water - low-cost operations that require relatively little expertise and allow for easier recruitment.


"It just shows there is a latent threat in the background and it's consistent," said Kevin O'Rourke, a political risk analyst based in Jakarta. "The good thing is that the authorities have a pretty good track record, especially over the last two years in anticipating and preventing attacks."

There have been no large-scale attacks on Western targets in Indonesia since 2009 when suicide bombers blew themselves up in two Jakarta hotels, killing nine people and wounding 53.

Prosecutors scored a major success last year when JI's spiritual leader, Abu Bakar Bashir, was jailed for 15 years, following years of efforts to obtain a long sentence for the 73-year-old preacher seen as inciting hatred in his speeches.

Improved investigation and surveillance techniques by the "Detachment 88" police anti-terrorism squad, funded by the United States and Australia, have been credited for breaking up several plots - including the latest one in Bali.

Initial findings by investigators in Bali appear to highlight the fluid and unpredictable nature of militant groups in Indonesia, which has become an emerging-market darling of investors in recent years.

Police said that the men, aged between 27 and 32, were linked to an armed robbery group in northern Sumatra island and the so-called Solo group, which police say was behind a suicide bombing at a church last year and other attacks in central Java.

Mbai said no explosives had yet been found but that there was evidence the group had surveyed their targets, taken photographs and "analysed the impact". An unknown number of suspects had escaped, officials said.


NEW CELLS KEEP SPROUTING

Andi Widjajanto, a defence analyst from the University of Indonesia, said the group appeared to be a "dormant cell" related to JI's top bomb-maker, Dulmatin, who was killed by police in 2010.

Mbai said that some of the suspects were involved in gangs with links to narcotics distribution, adding to evidence that terror groups are increasingly funding themselves through criminal activities such as robberies.

"Indonesia's government has been very successful preventing terror attacks. The special anti-terror detachment has built a much better capacity in recent years, but it has been failing to completely stop or erase new cells," Widjajanto said.

He said the authorities were still falling short in efforts to disengage militants from terror groups and to plug the flow of smuggled weapons through the country's vast, porous borders.

As the JI group has been broken up, suspicion of involvement in attacks has fallen on the Jamaah Ansharut Tauhid JAT.L group, which was established by jailed cleric Bashir in 2008 with the stated aim of creating an Islamic state through peaceful means.

Police have accused several JAT members of involvement in attacks. Last month, the United States designated the group a foreign terrorist organization, raising pressure on Indonesia's government to take a tougher line on the 1,500-strong preaching organization.

"It says it is peaceful but it is the most violent terrorist group in Southeast Asia," said Rohan Gunaratna, head of terrorism research at Singapore's S Rajaratnam School of International Studies.

"It is a terrorist organization that at times masquerades as a political and religious organization."

Son Hadi, JAT's spokesman, denied the legal group was related to terrorism, saying the accusations were a ploy led by the West to undermine the Islamic group.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/ ... 0J20120322


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PostPosted: 23 Mar 2012 23:06 
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Bali is a good example of violence for violence sake. This is an apolitical resort area that has done no harm to anyone ever. How long must the planet suffer from the mindless violence of these drones? I wish I could state my solution to this infestation but it would likely get me banned from this forum. I read a similar opinion by an Indian neurosurgeon on his blog. Maybe I can find it though it was several years ago.


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PostPosted: 23 Mar 2012 23:22 
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tejas wrote:
Bali is a good example of violence for violence sake. This is an apolitical resort area that has done no harm to anyone ever. How long must the planet suffer from the mindless violence of these drones? I wish I could state my solution to this infestation but it would likely get me banned from this forum. I read a similar opinion by an Indian neurosurgeon on his blog. Maybe I can find it though it was several years ago.

Bali is being flooded by Muslims from elsewhere in Indonesia as cheap labor for the tourism industry and Hindus there are forced to accommodate these people along with their crime and violence.

Recently they celebrated their Nyepi or day of silence festival where people including tourists are supposed to stay indoors but Muslims were allowed to go for their prayers.

After the 2 blasts the economy took a big hit for a while due to the slump in tourism.

Indonesia is slowly going the way of Pakistan from bomb blasts to breaking statues of characters from Mahabharata to lynching of ahmadi's and "anti p*rn" bills.

But I have a higher hope for Bali than our own useless polity, there seems to be resistance there led by a media mogul named Satria Naradha.


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PostPosted: 24 Mar 2012 02:32 
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Surasena wrote:
tejas wrote:
Bali is a good example of violence for violence sake. This is an apolitical resort area that has done no harm to anyone ever. How long must the planet suffer from the mindless violence of these drones? I wish I could state my solution to this infestation but it would likely get me banned from this forum. I read a similar opinion by an Indian neurosurgeon on his blog. Maybe I can find it though it was several years ago.

Bali is being flooded by Muslims from elsewhere in Indonesia as cheap labor for the tourism industry and Hindus there are forced to accommodate these people along with their crime and violence.

Recently they celebrated their Nyepi or day of silence festival where people including tourists are supposed to stay indoors but Muslims were allowed to go for their prayers.

After the 2 blasts the economy took a big hit for a while due to the slump in tourism.

Indonesia is slowly going the way of Pakistan from bomb blasts to breaking statues of characters from Mahabharata to lynching of ahmadi's and "anti p*rn" bills.

But I have a higher hope for Bali than our own useless polity, there seems to be resistance there led by a media mogul named Satria Naradha.

Five Hundred years back Indonesia was a hindu nation. Now Hinduism survives only in Bali. When I visited Bali a long time ago I saw more signs of Rama and Hanuman than in India. Bali is full of western tourists and many of them come for spiritual reasons. I read that during the time of Dutch rule christian missionaries tried their best to convert Balinese Hindus and they failed. Bali represents the great Hindu nation Indonesia was once hundreds of years back and the islamists are trying to erase that. Remember how they destroyed Bamyon Buddas during Taliban regime. These Buddas had surived for over 1500 years.


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PostPosted: 24 Mar 2012 03:18 
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It is time Mohammedeans are treated the way they treat others. This one way street of violence has continued unabated since Mo invented Islam.


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PostPosted: 24 Mar 2012 05:32 
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Indonesian prosperity increased during the authoritarian/military junta regimes - and Islamism was also encouraged as a dual policy of checking communism. The mullahcracy played the secular pretension and "tolerance" card to build up their base. How can you squeeze those peaceful jumma observers when they are so smiling about being tolerant of Hindus and Buddhists? So slowly the congregations increased and ME preachers arrived - directly or indirectly peacefully addressing peaceful jamats, or spreading the pure educational messages.

Now as consistent with every Muslim majority country which has attained some degree of prosperity - oil or cheap labour or palm oil - Islamism and the demands of the mullahcracy increase with national prosperity. Pakistan is the only exception perhaps - where Islamism remains independent of prosperity. But it is probably aone way street - islamism does not decrease with decreasing prosperity - it just remains at the level, to wait for increasing again once prosperirty starts climbing again.


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PostPosted: 24 Mar 2012 06:55 
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Tahir ul-Qadri, who just completed a tour of India for "peace", was giving a lecture about Ghazwa e Hind in 2005 - assuring people that those hadiths do not refer to Mohd. bin Qasim or Mahmud Ghaznavi, but to a great victory in the future.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR9QI8PuITU


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PostPosted: 24 Mar 2012 20:03 
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Carl wrote:
Will France repatriate its Moslems the way they did with the Roma?

Tolerating Islam: “He grabbed her by the hair and then shot her in the head”

Quote:
There is no denying, however, that at the nub of it, those wars are all about radical Islamists, who can’t accommodate themselves to the modern world.

And it’s also about the people who indulge them.

France has been, until now, a modern-day playground for Islamists who hearken back to the days of yore when they waged a siege on the gates of Vienna and raided the Russian and Georgian steppes for Caucasian slaves for the Ottoman Empire.

For years France has helped disseminate the lie that everything wrong in the Arab world is the fault of Israel and the United States. They welcomed Islamists into their country.

But now Merah may have brought France to its knees in ways not intended.

“This week's killings at a Jewish school and the link with the earlier killings of three soldiers in the same southwestern region of France initially prompted a fragile truce in France's election campaigning,” reports Reuters. “Political analysts say the Toulouse killings could transform the contest in the few weeks left before the two-round ballot, which takes place on April 22 and May 6.”

The beneficiaries will be those who have warned against a permissive multiculturalism that celebrates the permanent minority against the common sense of the shifting majority.
[...]
But in Europe these are not normal times.

Not since discontent swept through Italy, Germany and Spain in the 1920s and 1930s, leading to the rise of fascism, has Europe faced so grave a cultural crisis.


Mohammed Merah's brother: I’m proud he executed those 3 kids


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PostPosted: 25 Mar 2012 04:53 
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Child prostitution inquiry: Six remanded on sex charges

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Six men from Oxford have been remanded in custody after appearing in court in connection with an investigation into child exploitation in the city....

Thames Valley Police, investigating claims 24 girls were being exploited, arrested 13 men following raids on properties in the city on Thursday....

The men charged in connection with the inquiry are Anjum Dogar, 30, and his brother Akhtar, 31, both of Tawney Street, and Kamar Jamil, 26, of Aldrich Road.

Zeshan Ahmed, 26, of Palmer Road, Mohammed Karrar, 37, of Cowley Road and Bassan Karrar, 32, of no fixed address, also appeared in court earlier....


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PostPosted: 25 Mar 2012 11:05 
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Woman died after Muslim nurse refused to help as he was praying

An elderly woman was left on the floor at a care home for up to ten minutes because a nurse was praying, an inquest heard.

7:32AM GMT 23 Mar 2012

Alzheimer's sufferer Dorothy Griffiths, 87, was found sitting down after staff heard a bang and a carer went to the office for help to lift her.

But agency nurse Abdul Bhutto, who was in charge, said they would have to wait.

Carer Zoe Shaw told the Sheffield hearing: "It took between five and ten minutes because he was praying upstairs in the office on his prayer mat. A staff member told me we had to wait for him to finish." .......................

Telegraph, UK


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PostPosted: 25 Mar 2012 11:07 
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India published book by one Hazrat Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi, described as a “prolific writer on almost every topic of Islamic learning” creates some waves in Canada :

Book tells Muslim men how to beat and control their wives


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PostPosted: 25 Mar 2012 11:13 
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Location: posted at one of the dozens of Indian consulates in Afghanistan
Anjem Choudary in action. The British woman claims in the video that muslim extremists are taking over Luton.

Youtube video TIP OF THE ICEBERG: THE EFFECTS OF IMMIGRATION FROM THE 3RD WORLD

PS - If this is how it is in Luton, then I am in agreement with her.


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PostPosted: 25 Mar 2012 11:54 
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Arun Roperia wrote:
Anjem Choudary in action. The British woman claims in the video that muslim extremists are taking over Luton.

Youtube video TIP OF THE ICEBERG: THE EFFECTS OF IMMIGRATION FROM THE 3RD WORLD

PS - If this is how it is in Luton, then I am in agreement with her.


I don't feel the slightest bit sorry for that Brit girl. All those protestors are her own people - her compatriots. Fellow Brits.

i don't recall any Briton having any remorse when money was being collected by these same Muslim Britons for terrorism in Kashmir. The number of "Kashmiris" from PoK settled in the UK is enormous.


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PostPosted: 25 Mar 2012 12:09 
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the shit that they unleashed on hapless innocents across the world comes back to **** them in the a$$.


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PostPosted: 25 Mar 2012 13:25 
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Right from 1947 to late 90's people in western Europe especially UK and USA were right behind Pakis and completely swept aside the elimanation of Hindu population in 1947-48 in some parts of the Indian Subcontinent, in Bangladesh 1971 and violence against non-Muslims in Kashmir etc.

Many Germans used to say in early 1990's to say that India as a bigger country should give Kashmir to Pakistan. $4 Billion in WB and IMF loans in early 1990's were withheld asking Indian Army to get out of Kashmir in 1993, I remember the BBC predicting this put the Indian economy in recession.

Its only after seeing some of these Islamic radicals in their countries are opinions slowly changing.


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PostPosted: 25 Mar 2012 17:36 
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That British girl is only provoking the peacefully marching Muslim protesters with her stupid questions and she has the gall to play victim ? The degenerate British society needs more Islam.


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PostPosted: 25 Mar 2012 20:44 
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The Briturds have always had a soft spot in their hearts for Poakistan over India. Now the halal chickens have really come home to roost. Whatever ails the UQ, I say more Islam is the cure :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: 25 Mar 2012 21:07 
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I have always said That UKstan deserves every paki it has x10.

Further, I have maintained that karma will be a beach in Oirostan first and foremost. I predict de facto if no de jure civil war in oirostan with escalating violence, intimidation, insurgency and enclaves+no-go areas carved out between the pious momeen and the dirty if TFTA kufr. I predict a breakdown in social order, geographic proximity driven trade ties and thereby endangered prosperity in EUstan. Think Bosnia on a continental scale.

IOW, the same fate the high-brow oiros planned for Mother India will visit their homes and chic neighborhoods soon. We'll see how much they'll bother with preachy niceties like Human rites etc at home when civil war rears its ugly rear. If history is any guide, when the orios will eventually suspend/dispense with their very recently acquired notions of humanism and fairplay in dealing with their moslem minorities, they'll likely go whole hog. We'll see. Time'll tell.

AoA indeed.


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PostPosted: 25 Mar 2012 21:32 
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^^^

Part of the problem is that Indian spokesmen are usually not quick witted, succinct, articulate and forceful. They should have made it clear many years ago, that the UK supported Islamic fanaticism and separatism as a counterweight to the more progressive, democratic, pluralistic Indian nationalism and anti-colonialism. They should also affirm that India is linguistically and religiously diverse and democratic, and that things might be different vis-a-vis Kashmir if India were totalitarian/dictatorial or colonial settler-state. Make it clear, without sounding crude, that the UK, US and their supporters bear a responsibility for Islamic/Pakistani terror against India.


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PostPosted: 25 Mar 2012 23:21 
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^^^
oh please....stop blaming Indians for supposedly being lazy and inarticulate. the UK policy of supporting Islamism in Subcontinent goes back to 1857. it goes back to the era of Syed Ahmad Khan (1817-1898). so, stop blaming the Indians for it. the India view was never given any airtime and still isn't. there is not much Indians in UK can do when faced with state policy that is generations old. so, stop preaching to the Indians.

for some of us, it seems every doing of UK and US is because of the "bloody Indians" not being "up to task". all of their dirty deeds are conveniently brushed under the rug, in the name of "wit" and "articulate" and all the other hogwash.

yet, the same commentators are quick to jump up and shout "oh! it's the big bad US and UK. what can we do about their policy? we can't stop them" when it comes to defending a certain favorite political party. and these same people go back and shout about "inarticulate Indians" when the question of UK/US perfidy in supporting anti-Hindu forces is raised.....what hypocritical nonsense.


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PostPosted: 26 Mar 2012 03:58 
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Quote:
Woman died after Muslim nurse refused to help as he was praying
An elderly woman was left on the floor at a care home for up to ten minutes because a nurse was praying, an inquest heard.

Alzheimer's sufferer Dorothy Griffiths, 87, was found sitting down after staff heard a bang and a carer went to the office for help to lift her.
But agency nurse Abdul Bhutto, who was in charge, said they would have to wait.

Carer Zoe Shaw told the Sheffield hearing: "It took between five and ten minutes because he was praying upstairs in the office on his prayer mat. A staff member told me we had to wait for him to finish."


An ambulance was not called for nearly four hours after Mrs Griffiths fell from bed and cut her head and suffered a gash to her hip at the privately-run Valley Park Nursing Home in Wombwell, near Barnsley.

She died later in hospital. Mr Bhutto failed to appear at the inquest and a summons had to be issued for him to attend the resumed hearing later in the year.

Assistant deputy coroner Donald Coutts-Wood said he had contacted him during a recess and he denied being the duty nurse that night and said he had been there on a course.

Mrs Griffiths, the widow of former Barnsley footballer Steve Griffiths, who used to live in Wombwell, had been a resident at the home since 2009 and died last November.

She was put to bed at 9.45pm on October 24 and checked checked every two hours, according to Zoe Shaw.

The old lady was using the toilet at 4am and Mrs Shaw went to an office to fill in paperwork.

She said Mrs Griffiths was not prone to falls and was not considered "at risk".

She and another carer found her on the floor and Mrs Shaw went to get help from Mr Bhutto. He was the most senior nurse on night duty at the home, run by the Mimosa Healthcare Group, because the senior carer was unable to work havning [sic[ been on duty for six of the previous seven nights.

When Mr Bhutto arrived he checked the pensioner's limbs, took her blood presssure and pulse while she was still on the floor and told the carers to put her back into bed.

But instead Mrs Shaw, worried that she might fall again, washed the old lady, dressed her and took her to the office while she carried on filling forms.

At about 5.45am she took her to the lounge and said she was "talking fine" and walking around.

But at breakfast-time when the residents were being offered a cup of tea Mrs Griffiths was found unresponsive and an ambulance was called at about 7.30am.

Mrs Shaw, who broke down and wept in the witness box, said she would have called an ambulance immediately after the fall but had only since discovered that staff could override a nurses' decision.

Speaking after the inquest was adjourned Dorothy's daughter Jean David, 61, said: "We are quite upset that Mr Bhutto hadn't appeared and we are having to come here again particularly as my brother is having to come up from Staffordshire. We would like it to have been done and dusted but we can't leave it without his evidence."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/91620 ... aying.html


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PostPosted: 26 Mar 2012 06:31 
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Varoon Shekhar wrote:
^^^

Part of the problem is that Indian spokesmen are usually not quick witted, succinct, articulate and forceful. They should have made it clear many years ago, that the UK supported Islamic fanaticism and separatism as a counterweight to the more progressive, democratic, pluralistic Indian nationalism and anti-colonialism. They should also affirm that India is linguistically and religiously diverse and democratic, and that things might be different vis-a-vis Kashmir if India were totalitarian/dictatorial or colonial settler-state. Make it clear, without sounding crude, that the UK, US and their supporters bear a responsibility for Islamic/Pakistani terror against India.


Varoon - for years the UK and US have denied that any of this has happened. The UK for example takes the attitude that:
Quote:
Britain is a free country that allows Muslims to live peacefully and the government does not interfere with charities. The UK is not going to investigate Muslims charities to help poor people in the subcontinent. It's all a part of British openness and generosity.

Oh of course it is possible that people in a "private capacity" may have indirectly helped anti social elements but that is likely to be a very small proportion of the total. Do you know how many Hindu charities were in operation in the UK when Muslims in the Indian states of Gujarat were massacred in a pogrom?


As far as the US goes the activities of Fai are an example.

Being "quick witted, succinct, articulate and forceful" is a game that many can play and is irrelevant to facts and can have no effect on liars.


Last edited by shiv on 26 Mar 2012 06:49, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 26 Mar 2012 06:41 
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If a people, after undergoing mass murder, rape and pillage for multiple centuries can still name cities after their tormentors they deserve more torment. If turning your cheek no matter how many times you are slapped is your only response are you surprised at continued slapping ? In post WW II France female Nazi collaborators had their heads shaven. In India if they had a large enough vote base, they would be given reservations.

Mohammedean violence against India will only stop when massive, disproportionate violence is given in return.


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PostPosted: 26 Mar 2012 11:04 
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shiv wrote:
quote="Varoon Shekhar"]^^^



As far as the US goes the activities of Fai are an example.

Being "quick witted, succinct, articulate and forceful" is a game that many can play and is irrelevant to facts and can have no effect on liars.


Yup, and if the elite who make ruling parties and IFS are under thier control(like MKB, MSA etc) then they will parrote only notes prepared by USA, UQ, an inteeligent articulate person cannot blaber such giblerish.


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PostPosted: 26 Mar 2012 17:12 
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Devesh, apologies, but I haven't seen even an _attempt_ by Indian spokesmen( though I have seen the odd, very odd, letter to the editor of newspapers in Canada by individual Indians) to forcefully assert that the UK used/propped up/supported Moslem fanaticism and separatism as a counterweight to the more progressive, secular anti-colonial Indian nationalism and patriotism. And naturally, no hinting therefore that the UK bears major responsibility for the behaviour of the monster that it helped to create for its devious, dirty geo-political ends. An Indian origin commentator, Mihir Bose, working for the BBC did strongly put this across in his article 3 years ago entitled "Perfidy, thy name is Albion" - justly hailed here on BRF. But that was rare.

You are right on about the policy being more or less in force since the end of the 19th century. The straightforward, martial, direct, easy-to-understand, meat-eating, fairly easy-to-get-along with Moslem has been contrasted with the more 'difficult', obtuse and politically undependable Hindu, though the Hindus have their gentlemen as well.


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PostPosted: 26 Mar 2012 17:44 
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"Many Germans used to say in early 1990's to say that India as a bigger country should give Kashmir to Pakistan."

Did any Indian respond that the idea is idiotic. Where is the mechanism to just hand over a large amount of territory and people of diverse backgrounds, to another country? The most that could even conceivably occur is that a referendum takes place, and areas that want to secede are allowed to. But this idea can be forgotten now, after all that has gone down in the last 60 years, including 4 wars and the growth of Islamic terrorism and fundamentalism. Here again, Indians/PIO's, if not Indian spokesmen, should forcefully state that any Indian concession on Kashmir would be tantamount to giving a victory to Islamists, terrorists and the Pakistani military. IOW, it would not be something progressive or enriching as far as secularism and pluralism are concerned. Is that so difficult for Indians to put across.

You can't help notice that there is an absence of sophistication in German and other European assessments of the Kashmir issue. That is, if it isn't perfidy or jealousy- the latter is more likely.


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PostPosted: 27 Mar 2012 02:01 
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Varoon,

It has been done for ages. It has had a limited impact on the US specially post-9/11 and none on the UK.


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PostPosted: 27 Mar 2012 02:31 
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I disagree that a lot has been done on the counter-propaganda about the Islamist threat from Pak and from Kashmir Valley Islamism. If we sift through the murmurs and stringent protests - we have never heard that the problem is ideological, lies in a religious militancy, has solid connections to religious institutions and institutional structures. If ever, such a problem was always loudly shouted about from the official Indian voices about the so-called saffron - never ever in any cultural/ideological/religious connection to Islamism.

It was shown as a "regime" problem from Pak - thereby disjointing the root causes and support structures of the problem - from the surface manifestations of the problem itself. In fact Indian intellectual voices - sel-proclaimed and tacit regime-approved media or "activist" voices were allowed a free reign of vilification of the majority community and its belief system as the source of all such troubles.

If it was onlee a regime problem from Pak - if there was no inherent violent genocidic, and other culture eliminating driving motivation in the Kashmir Valley Islamism, or Paki violence was merely about territory onlee - and nothing - absolutely nothing to do with genocide and elimination of all other cultures on the subcontinent, nothing that would be sustained and reproduced in every generation of mullahcracy - and all such sustained civilizational hatred and viciousness was onlee in the "saffron", why should Europeans not say

"well after all its a problem created by your majority community - which is so repressive, whose casteist repression created the conditions under which the ancestors of these Paki and Kashmir Valley Muslims escaped into Islam - and which is so repressive that Muslims are scared to live under their majority rule [after all your eminent intellectuals and even your eminent politicians say such things] - it is onlee natural and humane to give the Pakis and the Kashmir Valley Islamists a separate territory and soverigntry where they can feel more safe!"

Indian regimes - especially the congrez - the pseudo-Marxians, and eminent historians or social scientists with hidden and vicious political affiliations - have hogged the decibel space over the decades to give all the weapons the Europeans need in their arsenal to hit India back. No use complaining now and try to slyly shift the blame on to the shoulders of the Europeans onlee. They would of course try to find every reason to undermine the pagan and the non-Judaic-Abrahamic. Indians with the onlee voice allowed by the regime and regime controlled academic power structure - could have fought it at least! They didnt and instead collaborated in the European project.


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PostPosted: 27 Mar 2012 16:19 
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As someone directly involved in such initiatives I can tell you it has been done both officially and unofficially. Officially you have to couch your language in diplomacy. It had limited impact in the US till 9/11 happened and none on the UK.

If someone pretends to be deaf there is not much you can do but badger him more with the same or wait for such moments as 9/11 till the light bulb lits up. A better option is to do the dirty work yourself without wondering what the world will think. India did precisely that in J&K.


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PostPosted: 27 Mar 2012 16:49 
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France bars entry of radical imams

Quote:
PARIS: France will bar radical Muslim preachers from entering the country to participate in an Islamic conference next month as part of a crackdown after shootings by an al-Qaida-inspired gunman, president Nicolas Sarkozy said on Monday.

Sarkozy, who has announced plans to punish those viewing Islamist websites and going abroad for indoctrination, said he would block the entry of some imams invited to a congress organized by the Union of French Islamic Organizations (UOIF). The UOIF, one of three Muslim federations in France, is regarded as close to Egypt's Islamist Muslim Brotherhood.

"I have clearly indicated that there certain people who have been invited to this congress who are not welcome on French soil," Sarkozy said.

He cited Sheikh Youssef al-Qaradawi, an Egyptian cleric based in Qatar who is one of the most prominent Sunni Muslim clerics in the Arab world and a household name in the Middle East.

A former member of Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood, Qaradawi is independent of the group but remains close to it. Sarkozy said the situation was complicated because the imam holds a diplomatic passport :shock: and does not require a visa to enter France.

"I indicated to the Emir of Qatar himself that this person was not welcome on the territory of the French republic," Sarkozy said. "He will not come."


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PostPosted: 27 Mar 2012 19:11 
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Supratik wrote:
As someone directly involved in such initiatives I can tell you it has been done both officially and unofficially. Officially you have to couch your language in diplomacy. It had limited impact in the US till 9/11 happened and none on the UK.

If someone pretends to be deaf there is not much you can do but badger him more with the same or wait for such moments as 9/11 till the light bulb lits up. A better option is to do the dirty work yourself without wondering what the world will think. India did precisely that in J&K.

Can you please put up one example of such an actual diplomatically couched bald statement showing the connection of Islamic institutions and theology and theologians in sustaining and reproducing the genocidic programmes from Pak and Kashmir Valley Islamists [I object to using J&K] that was delivered from the official regime and regime connected voices? Also the tentative proportions of such statements compared to vilification of the majority community and its faith system as having been the root cause?


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PostPosted: 27 Mar 2012 19:24 
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Kashi wrote:


Well blow me down! No more radical Imams then? Only the non radical ones get a French visa? Subhan Alla.


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PostPosted: 27 Mar 2012 21:20 
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Arun Roperia wrote:
PS - If this is how it is in Luton, then I am in agreement with her.

This was around 5 years back when I was posted in UK. Had a couple of folks who stayed in an area which was part of Luton's Parliamentary constituency. The area is full of illegal taxi cabs (i.e not the black cabs) most of them operated by Pakistanis and Bangladeshis (perhaps a few Indians as well). One of the drivers of such a cab had told the friends I know a sad truth. That in the next election one of his pals (a Bangladeshi) would win the elections. His assumption was based on the number of Pakistani and Bangladeshi origin Britons who would vote for this chap.


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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2012 02:16 
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Kashi wrote:
France bars entry of radical imams

Quote:
PARIS: France will bar radical Muslim preachers from entering the country to participate in an Islamic conference next month as part of a crackdown after shootings by an al-Qaida-inspired gunman, president Nicolas Sarkozy said on Monday.

Sarkozy, who has announced plans to punish those viewing Islamist websites and going abroad for indoctrination, said he would block the entry of some imams invited to a congress organized by the Union of French Islamic Organizations (UOIF). The UOIF, one of three Muslim federations in France, is regarded as close to Egypt's Islamist Muslim Brotherhood.

"I have clearly indicated that there certain people who have been invited to this congress who are not welcome on French soil," Sarkozy said.

He cited Sheikh Youssef al-Qaradawi, an Egyptian cleric based in Qatar who is one of the most prominent Sunni Muslim clerics in the Arab world and a household name in the Middle East.

A former member of Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood, Qaradawi is independent of the group but remains close to it. Sarkozy said the situation was complicated because the imam holds a diplomatic passport :shock: and does not require a visa to enter France.

"I indicated to the Emir of Qatar himself that this person was not welcome on the territory of the French republic," Sarkozy said. "He will not come."


This is just hogwash. How is an external regulation going to correct an internal issue. Multiculturalism is the vehicle that Islam is using towards an Arabization of Europe.

-M


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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2012 02:50 
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Thats OK. MMS govt will welcome them to India. All mullahs, qadiris and others welcome.


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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2012 07:33 
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Islamic punishment for teenage cell phone "abuse"

http://www.emirates247.com/crime/world/dad-slays-daughter-for-having-us-actors-on-mobile-2012-03-26-1.450363

Also what does a grieving father do when his 10 year old child is raped? Why kill her of course, if he is Mohammedean. See second story in the link:

http://www.emirates247.com/crime/region/swinging-couple-held-for-offering-to-host-orgies-2012-03-25-1.450216


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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2012 11:35 
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Destroy Gulf churches: Saudi Arabian cleric

Important things people do not know about Islam as it is practiced.

Saudi Grand Extremist Wahhabi Mufti Ordered to Destroy All Churches / Muslims, Christians Strongly Condemned It

Quote:
The Wahhabi sheikh, who represents the highest religious authority in Saudi Arabia, ruled that the Arabian Peninsula submits only to the religion of Islam and that the existence of churches in some countries of the region is an admission of the truth of these religions.


Wonder what would be the reaction if someone says the Indian subcontinent must have only 1 religion and all others including Marxism should be banned.

Quote:
"Kuwait is a part of the Peninsula. The Arabian Peninsula must destroy all the churches that are in it, because permitting these churches is permitting a religion other than Islam. He claimed that the Prophet, peace be upon him, commanded us and said, 'there cannot be two religions in the Arabian Peninsula'. Building them is not permitted in principle because this peninsula must be empty of all such things."


Further, punishment for a non muslim coming within 90kms of Mecca and Medina is death and hence Indians working in Jeddah are always careful in case even thier Taxi driver breaks this limit, even taking a Bhagvad Gita into Saudi is punishable.


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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2012 23:40 
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brihaspati wrote:

Can you please put up one example of such an actual diplomatically couched bald statement showing the connection of Islamic institutions and theology and theologians in sustaining and reproducing the genocidic programmes from Pak and Kashmir Valley Islamists [I object to using J&K] that was delivered from the official regime and regime connected voices? Also the tentative proportions of such statements compared to vilification of the majority community and its faith system as having been the root cause?



All I can say is that it has been done both officially and unofficially in the US during the NDA, JD and INC regimes. You don't write
about it in the press.


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