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PostPosted: 23 Mar 2012 07:50 
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amit wrote:
Hari Seldon wrote:
amit saar, thou art caste-ing pearls before swine, methinks...


Hari Saar,

I know. :-)

But what to do my (our as well) Indic nature makes me/us the keeper of the pearls.


You see, saarji, the swine are not really swine, but only pretending to be swine, so they can eat tigers later.

Hope you "catch my poo-oint," as Kameswaran would say in Michael-Madana-Kama-Rajan. If they are truly swine, they will not appreciate the pearls. If they are pretending to be swine, they will pretend not to understand the pearls - which is worse if you think about it.

Which is why I say - ignore the trolling, and get on with the original intent of the thread.

Sudarshan


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PostPosted: 23 Mar 2012 08:00 
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^^^^^

Agree with you Sudarshan ji.

I can't vouch for the others but I do have a definite reason for responding to these posts. Over the years I found that many Indian posters here have also succumbed to the "Shock and Awe" tactics adopted by Chinese posters here. Most of my posts are for this audience as well as for our guests! :-)

I'm happy to see less number of gushing posts admiring China and chest beating about India.

I must add, I personally think there are many things worth admiring in what China has achieved. However, those are not the things which our Chinese posters like to highlight.


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PostPosted: 23 Mar 2012 14:43 
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If you mean searching Google news, then yes I do that too but it doesn't find the nugget of really extreme China bashing articles at the top. I may have scroll to page 15 for that. Coming here saves me the time.

For example, the article stating China will have $22 TRILLION in total debt in 3 years. I could never have found that "gem" using Google News and I like to know as much as possible.

Shape/Mold views?? How does responding to silly articles on an anonymous internet forum qualify as shaping news or molding views?? For any debate, there has to be a minimum of two sides. Otherwise, you're talking into a vacuum or an echo chamber.

PrasadZ wrote:
wong wrote:
But if I want to read the latest China bashing story in the Western press, BR is definitely the place to go.

:rotfl:
Try google reader, wong, and save yourself the trouble of posting a reply. If you can. Of course, you are a drone. So? Whats wrong with that?

China does innovate in .. protests

This forum exists for the like minded to preach to each other. As 99% of forums do, on the internet. But you, wong, do not behave like 99% of the users of such forums. You claim to seek news of bashing, then spend way too much time countering it. I await with bated breath the "torn fly open shirt" argument you cant resist

Sheesh. And you claim to seek news, not mold views :eek:


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PostPosted: 23 Mar 2012 15:27 
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The 6 to 7 figure salaries for car designers is for the 1 or 2 global design stars. Not every designer is making million dollar salaries. In fact, most aren't and this is true in most artistic fields. Using an extreme example to prove a point is no different than the "panda poop tea" strawman to discredit a prize winning drug that has saved millions.

Concept cars aren't a big deal. If you have $2 - $5 million dollar, the design houses will give you a concept car. It really is not an impressive achievement. Go to any major international auto show and you'll find boutique design houses with 10 employees and less than a $1 million in revenue showing some pretty impressive concept cars. Advances in computer technology has just made it easier. Look up Wiesmann or Tramontana. Both have successful boutique car lines with only a handful of employees. Certainly if 2 German brothers with $3 million can do it, I should certainly hope a multi-billion dollar legacy licensed Raj can pay someone to do it for them too.

There is about 4 generations between the Hyundai cloned Mitsubishi and the current Hyundai Elantra (the picture you showed). There is a span of almost 30 years between the 1st and 4th generation Hyundai. The Chinese automakers are advancing even faster. Like Huawei they will probably close the gap in only 5 years. BBC Top Gear recently did a show on Chinese cars and basically came to the same conclusion.

As for fanthoming a commission vs. "blatantly ripping them off", you mean that's not what the Indian drug industry have been doing with mandatory licensing of patented drugs??? Ask Bayer if they think their new patented cancer drug is being ripped off right now by two Indian drug companies. This Indian holier than thou does get tiresome.

Raja Bose wrote:
wong wrote:
@amit

So did Tata commission Bertone, ItalDesign or Pininfarina for the work ??


I hope you can fathom the difference between commissioning someone to design something for you as opposed to blatantly ripping them off like the above pics. Do you know what is Intellectual Property? Going by Huawei's 'innovation', I guess not....

wong wrote:
And even if Tata did it in house, so what? So can any second year design student.


:rotfl: :rotfl: This is classic! I guess then the car companies don't need to pay 6-7 figure salaries to their designers. After all a second year design student can do it! They should just hire interns and pay them $50k a year. Or wait....even better why not just rip off someone else's design since that is clearly so impressive from an Econ perspective. Now that is gleat chinese innovation, I tell you! Ferrari/Lexus/, did you hear that? You guys need to learn from Cherry and Geely about true innovation and creativity in products and process!


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PostPosted: 23 Mar 2012 16:49 
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wong wrote:
There is a span of almost 30 years between the 1st and 4th generation Hyundai. The Chinese automakers are advancing even faster. Like Huawei they will probably close the gap in only 5 years.


Nice display of hubris. Keep up the good work! :-)


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PostPosted: 23 Mar 2012 16:55 
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amit wrote:
wong wrote:
There is a span of almost 30 years between the 1st and 4th generation Hyundai. The Chinese automakers are advancing even faster. Like Huawei they will probably close the gap in only 5 years.


Nice display of hubris. Keep up the good work! :-)


Not me. Jeremy Clarkson of the BBC. I figured he knows cars.


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PostPosted: 23 Mar 2012 17:08 
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Quote:


As for fanthoming a commission vs. "blatantly ripping them off", you mean that's not what the Indian drug industry have been doing with mandatory licensing of patented drugs??? Ask Bayer if they think their new patented cancer drug is being ripped off right now by two Indian drug companies. This Indian holier than thou does get tiresome.





Bayer itself rips products from university research.. Western pharma industry is a scumbag industry. There innovations are limited to shifting an alkyl group from one place to another . They pick up government funded research , and buy off patents from universities . Barring a few compounds most drugs so far have been developed by the academia and stolen by the scumbags ... They should have no claim over the anti-cancer biologicals .. because they did not invent them .. If an Indian company looks up at open source university research and synthesises a compound that is a derivative of the one synthetised by the western companies , that it should not be called IPR violation. In some cases the drugs were released a lot earlier in India than in the US. Metformin for instance has been available in India since the late 60s .. In US it was available only in the late 90s. Yet some company (can't remember which one) sued Indian company for metformin. Turns out that some french university had discovered it in the 20s . why do the american pharma companies charge thrice as much for the metformin ,in comparison to the Indian "generics" (the term generic is starting to have racial undertones these days) ? . The common argument they use is that they innovated . While the Indians copied . When the drug was available a quarter century earlier in India than US , I wonder what innovation they are talking about. Most other drugs have similar history . Pharma companies buy out the IPRs of promising univ research , and than using legal force to prove that they "innovated" ..


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PostPosted: 23 Mar 2012 17:26 
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Ooooogh!!! Wong San and Ashi San. China is a HUGE HUGE country. I am sure there is a lot of research and development happening. Name something more then Huawei please. So that we ca discuss something else.


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PostPosted: 23 Mar 2012 17:35 
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There is an Indian member, I forget the name, who is always talking about how poor China is because millions of Chinese live in caves. That is why I'm surprised this LA Times article about Chinese caves hasn't been posted here. Not gloomy enough ???

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... 2472.story

Honestly, that cave looks better than many Manhattan apartments. That very specific cave, not all Chinese caves.


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PostPosted: 23 Mar 2012 21:44 
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wong wrote:
The 6 to 7 figure salaries for car designers is for the 1 or 2 global design stars. Not every designer is making million dollar salaries.


Have you met or worked with any car designer from a major car company such as GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda, JLR, VW (I don't meant Cherry and Geely :lol: )? If you have you would know that they earn pretty handsome salaries. The very senior ones do take home 7 figure salaries whereas all the rest are pretty comfortably in the 6 figure range in USD. Now your point was that car design can be done by any 2nd year design student - please tell me why in that case car companies don't just hire interns to do their car designs?? Why spends millions and millions of dollars in design? They must be stupid - I am sure they need to learn from the Gleat Chinese Innovation Machine. Perhaps China's Geely can lead the way by firing all the Volvo designers, cancel all design house contracts and hire cheap student labour to replace their design force.

wong wrote:
Certainly if 2 German brothers with $3 million can do it, I should certainly hope a multi-billion dollar legacy licensed Raj can pay someone to do it for them too.


This basically reveals a lot to me. So for our Chinese biladels, everything is an unskilled labour problem - throw more bodies at it and they think it will get solved. Apparently skill and knowledge mean nothing. Thats why they think if 2 skilled professionals can do it, clearly 20 2nd year design students can do it! No wonder Chinese car companies are restricted to producing copies and crap like the QQ. :rotfl:

And why the :(( :(( over license Raj - is it becoz Huawei got barred? Then you should :(( :(( about the license Raj in USA too. :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: 23 Mar 2012 21:46 
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wong wrote:
As for fanthoming a commission vs. "blatantly ripping them off", you mean that's not what the Indian drug industry have been doing with mandatory licensing of patented drugs???


Do you know the difference between a product patent and a process patent? I guess not.


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PostPosted: 23 Mar 2012 22:49 
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Raja Bose wrote:
This basically reveals a lot to me. So for our Chinese biladels, everything is an unskilled labour problem - throw more bodies at it and they think it will get solved. Apparently skill and knowledge mean nothing. Thats why they think if 2 skilled professionals can do it, clearly 20 2nd year design students can do it! No wonder Chinese car companies are restricted to producing copies and crap like the QQ. :rotfl


I have pointed out this particular fallacy of their thought process earlier with the way they are building structures and bridges in Earthquake country. They are copying designs for bridges from elsewhere without understanding or bothering to do the engineering effort necessary to adapt to the site and earthquake load conditions. The belief is that 200 people working fast is better than 10 people working who know what they are doing. At the Wenchuan Earthquake a large number of bridges collapsed, many with clear design failures. One bridge in particular got knocked off and their solution was to simply pick it up and drop it back in place with minimal modification. I’m given to understand the Chinese example is intensely studied as how not to build in earthquake country. There are over 120 articles in JEE that point out detail aspects of items that were thoughtlessly copied without real understanding though the wording is a lot more neutral. Many of these bridges that suffered pounding damage but stayed upright have now been reopened for use. I have a colleague of mine who designed a bolted OMF structure only to get there and find out that all the bolts had been replaced by welds by the foreman in the field! Nothing was done to fix it and it is still standing out there in Wuhan. Second time around the developers used a local engineer who faithfully copied all the details into a building 3 times as tall!

It is obvious they mistake pastiche for having arrived. When the truth is they have done nothing of the kind.


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PostPosted: 23 Mar 2012 23:00 
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China's external debt soars to 27-yr high at $695 bn.

China's external debt totalled a whopping $695 billion last year, highest in 27 years, adding to concerns that it might undermine the country's fiscal position at a time when its economy has slowed down due to declining exports.

The external debt rose by $146 billion, or nearly 27% from 2010, data released by the State Administration of Foreign Exchange (SAFE) said.

The proportion of short-term external debt to the total also climbed to a record high of 72% as of December 31, in contrast to 68% in 2010 and 60% in 2009, SAFE data said.

But the year-on-year increase in short-term debt moderated. As of 2011 end, outstanding short-term debt stood at $500.9 billion, up 33%. The growth rate was nearly 12 percentage points lower than in 2010.

The jump in foreign debt shows that China, which lends more than it borrows, is borrowing more from overseas to hedge against the devaluation of its foreign exchange reserves, analysts said.

Meanwhile, enterprises on the Chinese mainland have resorted to borrowing from overseas due to financing difficulties at home, they added.

As the yuan has strengthened against other currencies, the value of China's foreign exchange reserves has shrunk, Li Jian, a research fellow from the Chinese Academy of International Trade and Economic Cooperation from the Ministry of Commerce said.

According to SAFE, the Yuan has risen 13.69% against the US dollar since the beginning of 2008.

The Yuan appreciation also had adverse impact on China's foreign exchange reserves of $3.20 trillion, highest in the world. As a result, the value of the Chinese government's dollar-denominated assets has fallen, Li argued.

Borrowing in dollars allow the government to offset some of those losses because it would effectively have to pay less when the loans come due if the yuan continues to strengthen, Li told state run Global Times.

Also, the Chinese business enterprises have become more reliant on borrowing from abroad due to soaring costs of domestic financing, Zhang Yugui, dean of the College of International Finance and Trade at Shanghai International Studies University said.


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PostPosted: 24 Mar 2012 14:26 
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I guess our biladels are not at work posting bojitive neuj since its the weekend but the Gleat Chinese Innovation Machine bashes on regardless....

Made in India, Faked in China


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PostPosted: 25 Mar 2012 00:10 
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^^^^
The 5 Most Insane Examples of Chinese Counterfeiting
The #1 item in that list is cigarettes.


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PostPosted: 25 Mar 2012 00:28 
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ArmenT wrote:
^^^^
The 5 Most Insane Examples of Chinese Counterfeiting
The #1 item in that list is cigarettes.


From the article:

Quote:
The illusion was so perfect that even the employees thought the place was legit. Let's say that again: Even though it's a complete knockoff, all the employees completely believed they were working for Apple. :rotfl:


These fakes do show that the Chinese can work very hard, very opportunistic and are very industrious - more than most nations. The big question is why don't they even attempt to channel their creativity in the right direction?

They are like the skilled artists who can paint high quality fakes of original paintings of other big name artists but nobody would call those artists who simply copy, as being talented or give them respect becoz they are lack the creativity for originality. There something deeply wrong in the Chinese psyche here and I don't think the comparisons with Japanese and Koreans of yore is valid becoz unlike these 2, the more China grows, the more they indulge in these ridiculous acts of faking.


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PostPosted: 25 Mar 2012 00:35 
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Raja Bose wrote:
These fakes do show that the Chinese can work very hard, very opportunistic and are very industrious - more than most nations. The big question is why don't they even attempt to channel their creativity in the right direction?


Because the moment they do someone knocks off the product or the state takes over. It is far easier and more lucrative to knock off stuff in Panda land. No IP to protect or invest in.


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PostPosted: 26 Mar 2012 19:17 
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China's Huawei barred from Australia broadband deal


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PostPosted: 26 Mar 2012 20:34 
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Gee!

China's Not-So-Super Computers

Quote:
Supercomputers are largely seen in China as local economic-development tools. City governments play a much larger role in setting China's supercomputer research agenda than they do in the U.S. because Chinese cities finance a larger share of the projects.

Shenzhen, which paid three-quarters of the $1.3 billion cost of the Shenzhen supercomputer center, "doesn't care about climate change and astrophysics"—traditional supercomputer research projects—said Feng Shengzhong, deputy director of a Shenzhen research institute that develops applications for the Nebulae. "They care about local problems."


I wonder what these local projects are? Great Filewall of China!

Quote:
To illustrate the uneven perception of China's supercomputer efforts, Mr. Qian, the veteran supercomputer researcher, holds his palms at hip level. "Generally, we're here," he said, "but everyone thinks we're higher," as he raises his palms to shoulder height.


This statement holds true in a lot of other things....IMHO

Lotsa hearburn in the comments section :((


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PostPosted: 27 Mar 2012 06:00 
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^^^Well to be fair, why should they care about the western obsession with climate change and finding little green beings on Mars? If they are using their super computers just like we use our super computers and ISRO, more power to them. If they are using their super computers for Gleat Chinese Phyrr-wall onlee, even more power to them! :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: 27 Mar 2012 08:24 
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Quote:

Gee!

China's Not-So-Super Computers



This guy bob davis is keeping a watch on this thread.. I exposed the chinese sooper duper computers months ago...non of them do anything scientific.. all of them are listed as providing internet service.. Most of them have been supplied by HP..


viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4036&start=3880


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PostPosted: 27 Mar 2012 09:22 
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Shanghai designed and made shield machine exported to India to help Chennai metro construction.
Image


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PostPosted: 27 Mar 2012 12:13 
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Red Terror Revisited in Chongqing. No wonder "Glandpa Wen" - Teletubby talked about the Cultural Revolution repeating. And no, it takes just one nutty leader to do it. What if Carrot - Hu went nuts and wanted to do a "Mao" , just like this Bo Xilai wanted to do ?

Bo Xilai's Crime crackdown Adds to Scandal from NYT

Quote:
BEIJING — As Bo Xilai, the dismissed Chongqing party chief, becomes immersed in an ever-more tangled scandal, disturbing details are emerging about one of his best-known initiatives, a crusade against organized crime on which he built a national reputation.

Quote:
critics now say it depicts a security apparatus run amok: framing victims, extracting confessions through torture, extorting business empires and visiting retribution on the political rivals of Mr. Bo and his friends while protecting those with better connections.


Quote:
“Even by Chinese Communist Party standards, this is unacceptable,” said Cheng Li, an analyst of the Chinese leadership at the Brookings Institution. “This is red terror.”



Quote:
The campaign’s overlord was Wang Lijun, Mr. Bo’s police chief and, now, the force behind Mr. Bo’s downfall. Mr. Wang caused an international incident last month when he sought refuge in a United States consulate, apparently fearing for his safety. Details that have surfaced in the past week indicate that, in part, he feared retaliation after telling Mr. Bo that his family was linked to an inquiry into the death of a British citizen, Neil Heywood, who was an acquaintance of Mr. Bo’s family.


Quote:
Examples are not hard to find. Gong Gangmo, 48, a motorbike mogul, and Fan Qihang, 40, a construction entrepreneur, were charged with a string of felonies that included ordering the murder of a man after a nightclub fight. Both claimed innocence.

In an interview videotaped before his death, Mr. Fan said he had been secretly confined in a military reserve camp for five months and shackled to an iron bar — once, for five days straight — with only his toes touching a table. His handcuffs cut so deeply into his wrists that his guards once needed an hour to remove them.

Mr. Fan said he had tried to kill himself by beating his head against the concrete wall and by biting off the tip of his tongue, injuries supported by medical records. His lawyer, Zhu Mingyong, said he had seen only a few pages of the prosecution’s voluminous file. Even so, “There were so many obvious violations of the law, you don’t even have to look for them,” he said. Mr. Fan was found guilty and executed in July, 2010.

His co-defendant, Mr. Gong, underwent similar torture, according to his lawyer, Li Zhuang, and his medical records also documented wrist scars. But any chance to exclude his confession vanished after Mr. Gong suddenly accused Li Zhuang of advising him to lie about being tortured. Li Zhuang said Mr. Gong had turned on him to spare himself from execution.

Li Zhuang was convicted of suborning perjury just 18 days after his arrest. Upon appeal, with no hope of justice, he said he wrote a confession, but began his paragraphs with words that combined to read “forced to confess.” His 18-month sentence scared other private attorneys away from da hei cases.

He Weifang, a Peking University law professor, said the case “sets China’s legal reform back 30 years.”
Quote:


One of the wealthiest magnates ensnared in the purges was Li Jun, a Chongqing real estate mogul. Like hundreds of other private business executives, he said during 16 hours of interviews this month, he became a target of police, government and military officials who framed him as a “black society” boss.

He eventually lost control of his $711 million conglomerate and fled the country, branded a fugitive. Before his escape, he said, he endured three months of beatings, torture and relentless pressure to implicate others in nonexistent crimes.

He said his tormentors sought to confiscate his assets and extract a confession that could help frame rivals of Mr. Bo’s powerful ally in the military, Gen. Zhang Haiyang, now the political commissar of China’s nuclear forces.

Li Jun buttressed his account with photos taken at a secret detention facility and with binders of legal documents signed by military and police officials. A scholar of Chinese politics at Columbia University, Andrew Nathan, authenticated five documents supporting his claims of innocence.

Li Jun’s troubles began within a year after Mr. Bo’s appointment. A subsidiary of his company won a $50 million public bid for a hilly tract of land outside Chongqing. The seller was one of China’s five regional military commands, he said, led at the time by General Zhang.

In December 2009, under orders signed by the police chief, Mr. Wang, Li Jun was detained on suspicion of more than a dozen crimes, including organizing prostitution, usury, contract fraud, bid-rigging and bribery. He was bound to a “tiger bench,” a medieval-style iron seat with a straight back and a grooved bottom, and was kicked, pummeled and berated for 40 straight hours. At that point, he said, “I just wanted to die.”

A top military interrogator presented Li Jun with a list of more than 20 military officers, apparently rivals of Mr. Bo’s ally General Zhang, and accused him of bribing 2 of them to win the bid on the tract of land. “Don’t you see?” he said his interrogator finally told him. “Bo Xilai and Political Commissar Zhang are friends who grew up together. You are being framed. ”


Quote:
Thirty-one relatives and colleagues have since been jailed. His wife served a one-year sentence for aiding his flight. His elder brother was sentenced to 18 years in prison, his nephew 13 years. He had transferred ownership of his company to them in an attempt to shield it.

“It’s just like some new kind of Cultural Revolution,” he said. “Chongqing strikes down the landlords, redistributes the land and slaps a bad name on your head, ‘triad,’ from which you can never be freed.”


Oh well, what can I say. Good luck CPC drones. I just wish that you don't get "purged" one of this days after "criticism" and sent to "hard socialist labor" after being confined to an "Iron chair with grooved bottom and pummeled and kicked and beaten" and "interrogated".


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PostPosted: 27 Mar 2012 13:09 
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quite scary if powerful billion $ industrialists can be destroyed in this way with no legal protection or media coverage. foreigners cannot afford to be 'too successful' there for sure, lest they attract attention of the hawks.


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PostPosted: 27 Mar 2012 22:10 
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China's ChangAn EADO Sedan

Priced around $11K to $15K. 124hp, AT/MT.


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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2012 04:12 
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^^^ A Chinese Yakov Smirnoff would have said, "In Communist China you pay cash-for-clunkers"


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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2012 04:49 
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The posts by Chinese members before and after the one by Vina on the Bo Xilai purge episode and the coup rumors are a very interesting case study.

It's almost like a person walking past a major politically-charged public infarction that they studiously ignore in order to avoid getting into trouble, and instead commenting on the pretty flowers near the footpath instead: "Never mind the public purge of a top Politburo member. Here's a pretty car, and a cute tunneling machine" :)


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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2012 08:53 
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Suraj wrote:
The posts by Chinese members before and after the one by Vina on the Bo Xilai purge episode and the coup rumors are a very interesting case study.

It's almost like a person walking past a major politically-charged public infarction that they studiously ignore in order to avoid getting into trouble, and instead commenting on the pretty flowers near the footpath instead: "Never mind the public purge of a top Politburo member. Here's a pretty car, and a cute tunneling machine" :)


Suraj, this is an economy thread and I want to stick with that. If I wanted to discuss politics, I would go to the politics forum which Vina also has posted the same news there. Besides that, what is the point of discussing politics? There is no hard data, no bench mark, no reference point. It doesn't take long before someone starts name calling.

The car link I post is a response to some one's early request in this thread. He wanted to see a China design car. I show him with this link.You pay 11K to 15K, you get a car has 125hp, moon roof, parking radar, GPS, good interior design, all auto windows/side mirrows etc... Pretty nice. They are working on a turbo model now.


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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2012 09:17 
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The site was in Chinese - is there an English version?


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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2012 09:24 
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ashi wrote:
Suraj, this is an economy thread and I want to stick with that. If I wanted to discuss politics, I would go to the politics forum which Vina also has posted the same news there. Besides that, what is the point of discussing politics? There is no hard data, no bench mark, no reference point. It doesn't take long before someone starts name calling.

That's a very noble sentiment indeed coming from someone who had no problem trolling a page ago. How about I solicit a response on the topic from you in the PRC thread instead ? What's the general refrain on the expat-oriented (knowing that you're not PRC based, unike, say, zlin) Chinese-language blogosphere on the matter of Bo Xilai and the general state of affairs in Beijing ?


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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2012 09:39 
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Raja Bose wrote:
The site was in Chinese - is there an English version?


Frankfurt show

Chagna Eado Launched

Looks like Changan has a design center in Italy and that office leads the design effort of this car, according to some media reports.


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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2012 09:49 
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Look at their symbol. They turned the Acura symbol on its head. What originality :rotfl:


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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2012 09:50 
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ashi wrote:
Suraj, this is an economy thread and I want to stick with that. If I wanted to discuss politics, I would go to the politics forum which Vina also has posted the same news there. Besides that, what is the point of discussing politics? There is no hard data, no bench mark, no reference point. It doesn't take long before someone starts name calling.




You see the problem now Ashi San. You want to use our freedom of speech rights to glorify China and insult India viz a viz China. But you would refrain to criticize your own political system because you are a coward. This moral, ethical and intellectual bankruptcy. You squirm and shout when holes are picked in your story, but you don't balls to be honest.

Go ahead project the glory of China and show us how bad things are in India. And don't be afraid, Mother India guarantees your right to do so, even though you are a Han Chinese.


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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2012 10:28 
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Sri wrote:

You see the problem now Ashi San. You want to use our freedom of speech rights to glorify China and insult India viz a viz China. But you would refrain to criticize your own political system because you are a coward. This moral, ethical and intellectual bankruptcy. You squirm and shout when holes are picked in your story, but you don't balls to be honest.

Go ahead project the glory of China and show us how bad things are in India. And don't be afraid, Mother India guarantees your right to do so, even though you are a Han Chinese.


Wow, what a speech. I post a link to a new car in China and that means I am glorifying China and "show how bad things are in India". I am not criticizing China's political system because i am a coward? If I said "xxxx you, CCP", does it make me a hero?


Last edited by ashi on 28 Mar 2012 10:32, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2012 10:31 
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BRF Oldie

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Location: havildar-major, 1st JSOC munna detachment.
you are a very pragmatic person Ashi sir :)


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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2012 11:11 
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ashi wrote:
I am not criticizing China's political system because i am a coward? If I said "xxxx you, CCP", does it make me a hero?


No it makes you an honest poster ready engage in intelligent discussion. I don't want you to call CCP names. But I do want to see you acknowledge that not everything is perfect in China and there are gaping holes in some of CCP policies. It will help us better understand China.

Every time you post, you only post propaganda, which we all can see through. Unfortunately, you don't seem to understand that.


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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2012 14:43 
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BRFite

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Sri wrote:
ashi wrote:
I am not criticizing China's political system because i am a coward? If I said "xxxx you, CCP", does it make me a hero?


No it makes you an honest poster ready engage in intelligent discussion. I don't want you to call CCP names. But I do want to see you acknowledge that not everything is perfect in China and there are gaping holes in some of CCP policies. It will help us better understand China.

Every time you post, you only post propaganda, which we all can see through. Unfortunately, you don't seem to understand that.


Park Chung-hee built modern South Korea. China is exactly 20 years behind.

[Today, Park's legacy is split between those who credit his role in rebuilding war-ravaged South Korea after the devastating Korean War, to those who fervidly condemn his authoritarian policies, particularly those implemented after 1971.]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Park_Chung-hee

Park Chung Hee or Nehru-Gandhi. ????
You know what South Koreans would choose.
Lee Kuan Yew or Nehru-Gandhi. ????
I know what Singaporeans would choose.


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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2012 14:56 
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wong wrote:
Park Chung Hee or Nehru-Gandhi. ????
You know what South Koreans would choose.
Lee Kuan Yew or Nehru-Gandhi. ????
I know what Singaporeans would choose.


We will never know the answer Wong Sir. Both Nehru and Gandhi are now dead. Neither Nehru nor Gandhi fought an election against either Park Chung Hee or Lee Kuan Yew.

But please do tell how is this relevant to present debate?

Do enlighten us.


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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2012 15:01 
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Quote:
Park Chung Hee or Nehru-Gandhi. ????
You know what South Koreans would choose.
Lee Kuan Yew or Nehru-Gandhi. ????
I know what Singaporeans would choose.


Nice rhetoric, but runs aground against reality.

Fact is South Koreans COULDN'T have done any choosing.

Singaporeans CAN'T (yeah yeah, I know its supposed to be a democracy etc, I have lived there) choose in a meaningful way, even today!

While Indians COULD and DID always choose since 1947. A BIG difference.


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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2012 15:05 
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BRFite

Joined: 27 May 2011 19:21
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Sri wrote:
wong wrote:
Park Chung Hee or Nehru-Gandhi. ????
You know what South Koreans would choose.
Lee Kuan Yew or Nehru-Gandhi. ????
I know what Singaporeans would choose.


We will never know the answer Wong Sir. Both Nehru and Gandhi are now dead. Neither Nehru nor Gandhi fought an election against either Park Chung Hee or Lee Kuan Yew.

But please do tell how is this relevant to present debate?

Do enlighten us.


Obviously, I was talking about an authoritarian economic development system (Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea, pre-war Japan and 1 party post war Japan and now China) vs. Some pseudo-democrazy for poor countries.


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