Bharat Rakshak

Consortium of Indian Defence Websites
It is currently 28 Nov 2014 23:55

All times are UTC + 5:30 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1865 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39 ... 47  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: 23 Feb 2012 10:46 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Posts: 33779
Location: Col of the regiment, ORR JTF unit
it seems khan has very wideranging radar technology programs with progressive goals to push the capability every year. at various points as maturity and cost allow these demos make it into products.
http://www.fas.org/spp/military/docops/ ... 070301.htm
excerpt:

Enhanced Moving Target Detection Development (DTO SE.03.01). This technology development will focus on detection of targets in severe clutter from moving platforms using space-time adaptive processing and offboard sources, improved target tracking using advanced algorithms, and detection of stationary targets using real and SAR techniques.

High-Frequency Surface Wave Radar Shipboard Demonstration (DTO SE.04.02). The HFSWR demonstration will provide OTH critical early warning of low-flying missiles (30 seconds for Mach 2+ target) and cue weapon engagement radars.

Automatic Radar Periscope Detection and Discrimination (DTO SE.05.01). This technology development will demonstrate the advanced radar technology necessary for surface ship and airborne radars to automatically detect exposed periscopes in the presence of sea clutter and small targets and debris found in the littoral environment.


----
they had improved the APS-137D a half decade ago to some of the stuff being deleted in P8I
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/965 ... dar-01605/
APS-137 is a multi-mode Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) and Inverse Synthetic Aperture Radar (ISAR) system used for anti-surface warfare and anti-submarine warfare. It performs long-range surface search and target tracking, periscope detection, ship imaging and classification using ISAR. The SAR capability is used for overland surveillance, targeting and ground mapping. It is used in America’s current land-based and carrier-borne fleet, and its core technologies will serve on the future P-8A MMA program as well.

----
so ISAR deletion will mean we cannot classify a ship type quickly or detect periscopes. SAR deletion to protect the munna's land based assets.
both deletions are to increase the comfort factor of the munna as well as make sure khan always has the best kit.

the Saudi F15 radars also get some ground attack modes deleted to keep israel happy.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 23 Feb 2012 12:37 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 31 May 2004 11:31
Posts: 4065
Location: The rings around Uranus.
^^^This is the fruit resulting from funding research, development and industry with taxpayer money for over 60 years.

Quote:
so ISAR deletion will mean we cannot classify a ship type quickly or detect periscopes. SAR deletion to protect the munna's land based assets.
both deletions are to increase the comfort factor of the munna as well as make sure khan always has the best kit.


Not for munna, more for protection against the Bear, who also has great technical ability, but not capacity. And the Panda, who has great capacity, but not technical ability. That sort of radar range resolution for an airborne radar system involves key technologies. That is what gives the khan its technical competitive advantages and very likely India could have gotten it had it signed the various smorgasbord of EULAs. The downsides are regular inspections of weapon system platforms. If they sold this sort of technologies outside its traditional Judeo-Christian allies without some sort of inspection scheme, then khan would loose supremacy in the last industrial and technical base they have.

None of the P-8 variants have land based target distinction capability. The AN/APY-10 is less capable than the modified AN/APS-137 at this time due to software, power, weight and volume constraints. When the USAF gets the P-8S, it will have this capability, and rest assured, Raytheon will learn from the IN's use of the P-8I to improve the platform.

As I said before, the P-8I with reduced capability is very very potent and there probably is nothing else that the Indian armed forces have that has this sort of resolution.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 23 Feb 2012 22:04 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 06 Feb 2009 07:46
Posts: 1517
Location: GSLV++
PratikDas wrote:
I sincerely hope you're right, Mort, or else a Scorpene will appear as 2 pixels.

Mort Walker wrote:
^^^I think you're confusing the towed sonar with radar. What the USN version is capable of is periscope detection with the radar, hence the use of SAR & ISAR.

Actually, I'm not confusing the two. If a 60 m long submarine has surfaced and the radar showed one pixel for every 30 m then this radar wouldn't be very useful in detecting the submarine, which is now a 'surface ship'. Of course, the Canadian MAD or a sonar buoy will help there. But you did mention that 30 m was the range resolution and not the target resolution and I was hoping that you're right.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 23 Feb 2012 23:20 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 31 May 2004 11:31
Posts: 4065
Location: The rings around Uranus.
^^^ I am talking about range gate resolution which is the pulse width of a pulse modulated waveform. With a 30m range gate you have a pulse which is 200 nano seconds wide. The radar computer counts these pulses and determines range and velocity. If you can put enough pulses on the target, then you have sufficient return pulses to distinguish it against background clutter. The narrower pulse, the better, but that comes with trade offs in the design. Even a 100m range gate resolution will resolve details of an object which is a few meters in length, provided you can put enough pulses on it. All of these radars are putting out several hundred pulses per second.

Pixel size can change. That is in the display software and you can make a target look as big as necessary.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 24 Feb 2012 07:52 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Posts: 33779
Location: Col of the regiment, ORR JTF unit
I thought in WW2 B24 liberator and PBY catalina flying boats equipped with primitive radar were able to hunt U-boats in the atlantic by detecting their snorkels from upto 20miles away?

was this limited in range and sea state that this new ISAR thing trumps?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 24 Feb 2012 08:50 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 31 May 2004 11:31
Posts: 4065
Location: The rings around Uranus.
Read about ISAR here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse_synthetic_aperture_radar
And SAR here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_aperture_radar

SAR and ISAR is not a new concept. It is just that the processing power and electronics are available to this now.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 24 Feb 2012 17:01 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31
Posts: 11612
Not sure what is the fuss about SAR/ISAR capabilities , Indian Navy Sea Dragon suite has SAR/ISAR capability

link

Quote:
Operating in I/J band, the Sea Dragon radar has a system weight of 260kg. Unit cost is around US$2.8 million, and NIIS claims it is more versatile than the US AN/APS-137, having an air-air detection capability against a sea-clutter background, as well as both synthetic aperture radar (SAR) and inverse SAR (ISAR) target classification modes. Other functions include long-range detection of surface targets in high sea states in jamming and precipitation environments; detection of small targets and emergency beacons in high sea states; navigation; adverse weather look-through and threat evaluation; plus target acquisition and tracking (range, heading and velocity)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 24 Feb 2012 23:07 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 23 Jun 1999 11:31
Posts: 410
From what I have read they are not removing the SAR/ISAR modes - just degrading them for a "monkey" version that is useless for littoral/overland applications. Since the limitations are enforced flexibly through software the periscope search feature will be left alone and should work fine.

Degrading SAR precision to greater than 3 foot renders it irrelevant for overland targets without severely degrading it for maritime use (ships are much larger than AFV/trucks). Similarly they are removing the Ultra High Resolution (UHR) ISAR modes; presumably some ISAR capability will be retained for manual NCTR. With the full precision modes those radars can tell you which ship got hit where as well as what damaged was caused, all at standoff ranges. IN aircraft won't be capable of that kind of resolutions which is fine I guess.

US is ensuring through technological means that the P-8I remains a purely naval asset. i.e. No sudden appearance of the P-8I near Punjab border acting as a mini-JSTARS cuing PGMs. Which is fine so far as the IN is concerned. The other CNI "removals" are probably because of the Indian middle finger to CISMOA and again no great loss.

My view is that the P-8I is not significantly shortchanged in its advertised role for the IN - LRMP/ASW.

Air to air mode is intriguing. Useful to have no doubt but I am having a hard time coming up with use cases where paying extra for it is worth it for an LRMP aircraft. Periodic air scan for self defense when in the suspected vicinity of enemy carrier based aviation? Search for UAV? ASW Helo?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2012 07:38 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 31 May 2004 11:31
Posts: 4065
Location: The rings around Uranus.
Badar wrote:
From what I have read they are not removing the SAR/ISAR modes - just degrading them for a "monkey" version that is useless for littoral/overland applications. Since the limitations are enforced flexibly through software the periscope search feature will be left alone and should work fine.

I don't know, it doesn't appear to have it, but perhaps you know more.

Badar wrote:
Degrading SAR precision to greater than 3 foot renders it irrelevant for overland targets without severely degrading it for maritime use (ships are much larger than AFV/trucks). Similarly they are removing the Ultra High Resolution (UHR) ISAR modes; presumably some ISAR capability will be retained for manual NCTR. With the full precision modes those radars can tell you which ship got hit where as well as what damaged was caused, all at standoff ranges. IN aircraft won't be capable of that kind of resolutions which is fine I guess.

The P-8I radar still has excellent resolution. What the UHR ISAR modes will provide is more detail about the target, which is very useful for a number of purposes.


Badar wrote:
US is ensuring through technological means that the P-8I remains a purely naval asset. i.e. No sudden appearance of the P-8I near Punjab border acting as a mini-JSTARS cuing PGMs. Which is fine so far as the IN is concerned. The other CNI "removals" are probably because of the Indian middle finger to CISMOA and again no great loss.

To do this, you would need to have very good ground clutter maps in order to distinguish targets from terrain features. It would also involve extensively modifying the scan strategy for ground clutter. Even if the P-8I had the resolution, getting the clutter maps made for this radar is a task, which I don't think are available for test or deployment yet even for the USAF. Otherwise we would have had some news from the US about the P-8S variant in testing.

Badar wrote:
My view is that the P-8I is not significantly shortchanged in its advertised role for the IN - LRMP/ASW.

I agree.

Badar wrote:
Air to air mode is intriguing. Useful to have no doubt but I am having a hard time coming up with use cases where paying extra for it is worth it for an LRMP aircraft. Periodic air scan for self defense when in the suspected vicinity of enemy carrier based aviation? Search for UAV? ASW Helo?

Perhaps to provide surveillance over the seas to protect assets like "Bombay High" about 160 Km from the coast which provides 12-14% of India's oil.
I could see it being useful for providing AWACs type capability over the ocean and the Phalcon for use over land. We don't know Phalcon's capability in maritime conditions.
The cost is would be software development to optimize the scan strategy and clutter maps for A-to-A mode and extensive system integration testing. Its a one time cost that can be applied to the entire fleet that can also be applied to future aircraft. Once its developed for the IN, then its available to other Raytheon customers, but now the IN has a working relationship with Raytheon and IMHO that is also quite valuable.


Last edited by Mort Walker on 25 Feb 2012 12:56, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2012 07:50 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Posts: 14118
Location: General Error : Bhery Phamous General !
how are we supposed to know who said what ?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2012 07:51 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: 03 May 2006 01:31
Posts: 2030
Location: Trivandrum
^^^ :rotfl:

Mort Walker wrote:
Air to air mode is intriguing. Useful to have no doubt but I am having a hard time coming up with use cases where paying extra for it is worth it for an LRMP aircraft. Periodic air scan for self defense when in the suspected vicinity of enemy carrier based aviation? Search for UAV? ASW Helo?


It is intriguing indeed. Most probably for finding and tracking other LRMP/ASW Helos. The high-priced buys of Vik carrier (without a cat, that is nice to have for serious land attack or an offensive air-war) and this long loiter P8I seems to be to keep the seas around a friendly SSBN sanitized of threats. Maybe a revised version of the Bastion strategy of USSR. Considering we are not yet there with just the Thin Ladies in the tubes, the SSBNs need some help in far-off seas.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2012 11:06 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Posts: 33779
Location: Col of the regiment, ORR JTF unit
self defence against fighter intercepts is also definitely useful...these long legged birds will usually operate on their own. a F-16 could likely detect the emissions of the P8I from 300-400km away and track it on radar from 150km away.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2012 12:39 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25
Posts: 7021
What about fleet defense, with Agosta's capable of firing low flying exocets, P3C's firing Harpoons etc, a long range detection of Aircraft and CM will be very useful for the IN, today the only assets the IN has is Ka 31, doubt the IL 38 or TU 142 can detect Ariel threats at long range.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2012 14:25 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 23 Jun 1999 11:31
Posts: 410
hnair, I think you are onto something about the A2A mode for supporting a bastion. P-8I will be able to simultaneously scan for surface, sub-surface and aerial threats in an area. From that perspective, however mediocre it's A2A capability, it is none the less an asset.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2012 16:53 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Posts: 33779
Location: Col of the regiment, ORR JTF unit
pls see my post in the indian missiles thread. a wild theory could be we are planning a initial bastion in the deep water trench area that lies along the eastern rim of the A&N island chain and extends further down past sumatra.

this is directly within supporting distance of IAF and IN bases in the islands and a short ride from the eastern coast main sub base (vizag or rambilli)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 27 Feb 2012 12:57 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 23 Jun 1999 11:31
Posts: 410
Singha wrote:
pls see my post in the indian missiles thread. a wild theory could be we are planning a initial bastion in the deep water trench area that lies along the eastern rim of the A&N island chain and extends further down past sumatra.

this is directly within supporting distance of IAF and IN bases in the islands and a short ride from the eastern coast main sub base (vizag or rambilli)

Very interesting. This is what I think would make a good bastion. Would you say the area you identified satisfies the following?

[1] Be secure. Viz Tightly monitored/controlled ingress points specially with respect to the greatest threats - subs. Ability to blanket the areas with superior numbers (by being close to friendly bases) of air, sea and sub defense assets. Waters that favor ASW rather than the subs themselves (since the primary motivation for a bastion is acknowledgement of friendly forces undersea inferiority).

[2] Be reachable. The boomer force should have safe passage from bases to operating areas without detection or interdiction. i.e. the bastion ingress-withdrawal routes should be as safe as the bastion itself.

[3] Allow full exploitation of safe guarded assets from within the bastion. Boomer weapons must be able to reach all desired targets from within the bastion.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 27 Feb 2012 18:35 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Posts: 33779
Location: Col of the regiment, ORR JTF unit
I think the area I described certainly satisfies [1] and [2] nicely among all other areas in our littorals. ofcourse it does not have tight chokepoints like the white sea but then nothing apart from chilka lake does!

the andaman sea-thailand-malaysia area is relatively shallow while still having sufficiently deep waters. we can build a chain of ASW helicopter and a few LRMP bases to lock down the A&N region end to end with help from the mainland like tambaram close at hand also. shallow water will impede enemy SSNs and we can certainly station enough fighters to defeat any ship or LRMP threat starting from car nicobar.

[3] has the 1800km story I posted. if we deployed the K4 with 4000km range pretty much all of PRC would be in range barring a couple of north east provinces. distance from port blair to beijing is 3800 and shanghai is 3000.

once we get better SSBN-SSN forces, the vast empty reaches of the middle and southern IOR is open to us.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 27 Feb 2012 20:37 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Posts: 33779
Location: Col of the regiment, ORR JTF unit
it would not be a closed bastion but more a open challenge bastion like presumably the waters around murmansk or pearl harbour are. as Mithunda would say:

"kisi <snip> mein dum hai, ki yaha aa ke kuch kar sakey?"


Last edited by Rahul M on 29 Feb 2012 18:04, edited 1 time in total.
language saarji. phamily phorum and all.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 27 Feb 2012 21:53 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 29 Mar 2008 19:27
Posts: 165
Location: prêt à monter dans le Arihant
Singha wrote:
it would not be a closed bastion but more a open challenge bastion like presumably the waters around murmansk or pearl harbour are. as Mithunda would say:

"kisi mai ka lal ke gaand mein dum hai, ki yaha aa ke kuch kar sakey?"


Sir please mind the words even if you are quoting someone else.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 28 Feb 2012 00:04 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 31 Mar 2009 00:10
Posts: 1575
Cross posting from Military Safety thread. Read this:

Quote:
They were picked up by a SAR helicopter shortly thereafter and transferred to the military hospital in Gwalior.


from

http://www.livefist.blogspot.com/2012/02/air-marshal-punches-out-of-doomed.html

There was so much R&Dh over why our SAR equipped aircraft are incapable of picking up wreckages in the Himalayas or YSR's helicopter. Well - here is one success & a crucial one at that (the pilots needed to be found fairly quickly in case they were injured).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 28 Feb 2012 00:25 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 10 May 2005 09:47
Posts: 177
Location: Mumbai
Prem Kumar wrote:
Cross posting from Military Safety thread. Read this:

Quote:
They were picked up by a SAR helicopter shortly thereafter and transferred to the military hospital in Gwalior.


from

http://www.livefist.blogspot.com/2012/02/air-marshal-punches-out-of-doomed.html

There was so much R&Dh over why our SAR equipped aircraft are incapable of picking up wreckages in the Himalayas or YSR's helicopter. Well - here is one success & a crucial one at that (the pilots needed to be found fairly quickly in case they were injured).


mmmmmmm
So the SAR helicopter is
a.> {Search and Rescue} Helicotper ?
b.> { Synthetic-aperture radar Equipped} Helicotper ?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 28 Feb 2012 00:27 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 22 Dec 2009 19:31
Posts: 1995
Location: Aapke paas paisa hain but mere pass class hain
Prem Kumar wrote:
Cross posting from Military Safety thread. Read this:

Quote:
They were picked up by a SAR helicopter shortly thereafter and transferred to the military hospital in Gwalior.


from

http://www.livefist.blogspot.com/2012/02/air-marshal-punches-out-of-doomed.html

There was so much R&Dh over why our SAR equipped aircraft are incapable of picking up wreckages in the Himalayas or YSR's helicopter. Well - here is one success & a crucial one at that (the pilots needed to be found fairly quickly in case they were injured).


I think SAR here stands for "Search and Rescue".


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 28 Feb 2012 01:40 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 31 Mar 2009 00:10
Posts: 1575
<deleted>


Last edited by Prem Kumar on 28 Feb 2012 01:49, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 28 Feb 2012 01:40 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 31 Mar 2009 00:10
Posts: 1575
Hmmm - good point Sagar. Now that I read it again, it might mean search & rescue (especially, since the report says SAR helicopter rather than SAR-equipped-helicopter)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012 17:50 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 23 Jun 1999 11:31
Posts: 410
Singha wrote:
it would not be a closed bastion but more a open challenge bastion like presumably the waters around murmansk or pearl harbour are.

AFAIK US does not have a bastion doctrine. At least not one openly acknowledged.

Weather its Bohai, Okhotsk sea - or the conjectural Andoman bastion the area will be crawling with US, Russian, Chinese subs along with tokens RN or French elements. That's a given. Everyone will have to tolerate it in peacetime and risk it in wartime.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012 19:12 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Posts: 33779
Location: Col of the regiment, ORR JTF unit
thats good. in peacetime we can prowl around and collect all the signatures of hostile subs...rather than have to go looking for them.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 05 Mar 2012 09:17 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Posts: 26378
Location: NowHere
fantastic read!
http://flonnet.com/stories/20120309290411800.htm


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 05 Mar 2012 10:24 
Offline
BRFite -Trainee

Joined: 23 Jan 2010 00:51
Posts: 64
indian eye in the sky

http://www.frontline.in/stories/20120309290411800.htm

Microwave masters
http://www.frontline.in/stories/20120309290412000.htm


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2012 16:49 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 01 Mar 2010 22:42
Posts: 4131
Location: Frontier India : Nemo me impune lacessit
DRDO AEW&C could be modified for disaster management


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 27 Mar 2012 01:25 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 05 Dec 2008 22:23
Posts: 254
SaiK wrote:

Sir, link is not working. :-?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 27 Mar 2012 05:01 
Offline
BRFite -Trainee

Joined: 27 Apr 2011 10:06
Posts: 12
keshavchandra wrote:
SaiK wrote:

Sir, link is not working. :-?


http://flonnet.com/fl2904/stories/20120309290411800.htm


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 28 Mar 2012 04:39 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: 01 Mar 2003 12:31
Posts: 2189
Location: JPEG-jingostan
As per Robert Wall's post :

Quote:


Robert Wall is "Aviation Week's International Editor London · http://www.aviationweek.com"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 05 Apr 2012 17:42 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: 01 Mar 2003 12:31
Posts: 2189
Location: JPEG-jingostan
Pics: Second EMB-145I for India completes first flight
http://bit.ly/Hb47yD

Second Indigenous Airborne Radar Flight Tested
http://bit.ly/HfG7xK

Maiden flight of (second) home-built Eye-in-the-Sky
http://bit.ly/HfGbgQ


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 05 Apr 2012 22:43 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Posts: 26378
Location: NowHere
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=17681
Quote:
"The necessary mission systems and components, including the dummy AAAU (Active Antena Array Unit) are successfully fitted on board Embraer EMB 145I aircraft,"
^^^^

VVVV
The other mission systems will then be integrated on to the aircraft, and mission system flight trials are likely to commence from November.


It is important to note it is "dummy".


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 26 May 2012 04:38 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 06 Feb 2009 07:46
Posts: 1517
Location: GSLV++
Tarmak007: AEW&C arriving in July
Quote:
India’s eye-in-the-sky AEW&C platform (EMB-145I) is scheduled for an official touchdown this July. Sources say that the platform would first arrive at Jamnagar Air Base enroute to its destination in Bangalore for system integration. The plane had its first official flight on December 7 (2011), in Brazil.


A neat little footnote in AK's latest post on IFF units.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2012 06:26 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 06 Feb 2009 07:46
Posts: 1517
Location: GSLV++
Times of India: India to launch AWACS project to counter China, Pak
Rajat Pandit, Jun 19, 2012

Quote:
NEW DELHI: With Pakistan stealing a swift march in the "eyes in the sky" arena and China already way ahead, India is now going to launch its own full-blown futuristic AWACS (airborne warning and control system) programme.

"Clearances are underway" to initially develop two AWACS aircraft, with four more to follow at a later stage, under the new `AWACS-India' project to be executed by DRDO and its Bangalore-based Centre for Air Borne Systems (CABS).

"Under it, 360-degree AESA (active electronically scanned array) radars will be mounted on large aircraft like IL-76, Boeing or Airbus," said a DRDO source.

Potent force-multipliers like AWACS or AEW&C (airborne early warning and control) systems have changed the entire nature of air warfare because they can detect incoming aerial threats, ranging from fighters to cruise missiles, much before ground-based radars.

They also serve to direct air defence fighters during combat operations with enemy jets and also help in tracking troop build-ups.

Pakistan already has four Swedish Saab-2000 AEW&C aircraft, with four more Chinese ZDK-03 AWACS in the pipeline. China has around 20 AWACS, a mix of new and old systems, say sources.

But IAF has only three Phalcon AWACS mounted on IL-76 aircraft, under the $1.1 billion tripartite agreement among India, Israel and Russia finalized in 2004, despite being confronted with two potentially hostile fronts.

The case for two additional "follow-on" Phalcon AWACS, with a range of over 400-km and 360-degree coverage like the first three, has run into some rough weather due to sharp cost escalation.

Moreover, DRDO's ongoing mini-AWACS project, under which indigenous AEW&C systems are to be mounted on three Embraer-145 jets obtained from Brazil for $210-million, has also slipped after being approved in October, 2004, at a cost of Rs 1,800 crore.

DRDO, however, contends the project is now on track. "CABS will get the first Embraer, modified with antenna units and other structures mounted on its fuselage, in July," said an official.

"All electronic systems, with a normal radar range of 250-km and a 240-degree coverage, will then be integrated. The first flight should take place in early-2013. The project completion date is April 2014," said an official.

IAF is awaiting the completion of the mini-AWACS project as well as the launch of the larger 'AWACS-India' programme with crossed fingers. AWACS also constitute a crucial constituent of its IACCS (integrated air command and control system) programme, the fully-automated network being set up to integrate the wide array of military radars with each other as well as with civilian radars to plug surveillance gaps in Indian airspace.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2012 06:41 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 15 Mar 2002 12:31
Posts: 1032
Remarkable how all indigenous projects - Arjun, IJT, LCA, AEWC, etc seem to have gone into hibernation.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2012 07:06 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 05 Mar 2001 12:31
Posts: 4657
well the coming cash crunch will take care of that khujli.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2012 07:38 
Offline
BRFite -Trainee

Joined: 22 Feb 2012 21:01
Posts: 34
Location: Bangalore
PratikDas wrote:
Times of India: India to launch AWACS project to counter China, Pak
Rajat Pandit, Jun 19, 2012

Quote:
NEW DELHI: With Pakistan stealing a swift march in the "eyes in the sky" arena and China already way ahead, India is now going to launch its own full-blown futuristic AWACS (airborne warning and control system) programme.

"Clearances are underway" to initially develop two AWACS aircraft, with four more to follow at a later stage, under the new `AWACS-India' project to be executed by DRDO and its Bangalore-based Centre for Air Borne Systems (CABS).

"Under it, 360-degree AESA (active electronically scanned array) radars will be mounted on large aircraft like IL-76, Boeing or Airbus," said a DRDO source.

Potent force-multipliers like AWACS or AEW&C (airborne early warning and control) systems have changed the entire nature of air warfare because they can detect incoming aerial threats, ranging from fighters to cruise missiles, much before ground-based radars.

They also serve to direct air defence fighters during combat operations with enemy jets and also help in tracking troop build-ups.

Pakistan already has four Swedish Saab-2000 AEW&C aircraft, with four more Chinese ZDK-03 AWACS in the pipeline. China has around 20 AWACS, a mix of new and old systems, say sources.

But IAF has only three Phalcon AWACS mounted on IL-76 aircraft, under the $1.1 billion tripartite agreement among India, Israel and Russia finalized in 2004, despite being confronted with two potentially hostile fronts.

The case for two additional "follow-on" Phalcon AWACS, with a range of over 400-km and 360-degree coverage like the first three, has run into some rough weather due to sharp cost escalation.

Moreover, DRDO's ongoing mini-AWACS project, under which indigenous AEW&C systems are to be mounted on three Embraer-145 jets obtained from Brazil for $210-million, has also slipped after being approved in October, 2004, at a cost of Rs 1,800 crore.

DRDO, however, contends the project is now on track. "CABS will get the first Embraer, modified with antenna units and other structures mounted on its fuselage, in July," said an official.

"All electronic systems, with a normal radar range of 250-km and a 240-degree coverage, will then be integrated. The first flight should take place in early-2013. The project completion date is April 2014," said an official.

IAF is awaiting the completion of the mini-AWACS project as well as the launch of the larger 'AWACS-India' programme with crossed fingers. AWACS also constitute a crucial constituent of its IACCS (integrated air command and control system) programme, the fully-automated network being set up to integrate the wide array of military radars with each other as well as with civilian radars to plug surveillance gaps in Indian airspace.


i would say go for Israeli Falcon which is the next best to the american just 3 for a country size of india what was the MOD and defence procurement were thinking


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2012 07:51 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Posts: 33779
Location: Col of the regiment, ORR JTF unit
I am extremely skeptical of the 1.5 yr timeline given for first flight with radar to project completion...the stuff is not flying yet in another testbed.

in the commercial sector, much smaller products which would not be more than 10% of whats involved here have 18 month test cycles.

they should learn to give some honest timelines....my estimate to get the 1st one FOCed from first flight, through multiple sw and hw revisions would be in 3-4 yr range BEST CASE...5-6 yrs AVG CASE. we have zero prior experience in airborne command posts of any hue to fall back on. phalcon and p8I feature imported kit.

case in point - the US tried to merge the JSTARS, AWACS and space based sensors into a 'paul revere' == M2CA a/c and gave up after a while due to very low MTBF of complex mission sensors. this inspite of having so many building blocks , decades of prior exp, the best talent pool for the job and vast funding.

look how a deceptively simple project like the IJT is dragging on and on...


Last edited by Singha on 19 Jun 2012 08:56, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1865 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39 ... 47  Next

All times are UTC + 5:30 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Jaeger, Lisa and 18 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group