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PostPosted: 22 Mar 2012 13:47 
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China tests J-10 fighters near India border


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PostPosted: 22 Mar 2012 14:47 
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IMR had in an earlier issue details of the Chinese order of battle against us in the Tibetan region.They ijnclude SU-27s,J-seres of aircraft,MBTs,MICVs and a variety of artillery including their 300mm MBRLs amd tactical missiles with ranges upto 300+ km.These are ostensibly meant for knocking out our forward air bases/airstrips and key military comand centres,logistic depots,etc. closer to the border.Over a dozen tunnels into the mountains have also been completed to house elemnets of the PRC's military machine.

Meanwhile in Taoiwan authorities have discovered PRC espionage ops aimed at stealing key US-Tiwanese air defence

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2012-03/D9TKUKK00.htm

Xcpts:
Quote:
Chinese spies target Taiwan's US-made defenses
By PETER ENAV

When Taiwanese security personnel detained a suspected spy for China at a top secret military base last month, they may have had a sense of deja vu.

Air force Capt. Chiang -- he was identified only by his surname -- was the fourth Taiwanese in only 14 months known to have been picked up on charges of spying for China, from which the island split amid civil war 63 years ago. While Taiwan's Defense Ministry did not disclose details of his alleged offense, his base in the northern part of the island hosts the air force's highly classified radar system and U.S.-made Patriot surface-to-air missiles, both vital to the island's aerial defense.


Quote:
At the heart of the China's Taiwan espionage efforts are two systems with substantial U.S. technology -- the Lockheed Martin Corp. and Raytheon Co.-built Patriot missile defense system and the Lockheed-designed Po Sheng command and control system.

The Patriot uses sophisticated radar to track incoming aerial threats, then launches high-performance missiles to bring them down. The Po Sheng network -- the Chinese name means Broad Victory -- allows Taiwan's army, air force and navy to exchange battlefield information in real time. That is a big advantage in coordinating responses to the attack China has promised if Taiwan ever moves to make its de facto independence permanent.

Defense expert Arthur Ding of Taiwan's Institute for International Relations said successful penetration of the Patriot system could wreak havoc with Taiwan's air defenses, a key component in turning back any future Chinese attack.

"China wants radar data so they can develop countermeasures," he said. "If you have this data you can jam the system or redirect its missiles."

Former Taiwan Deputy Defense Minister Lin Chong-pin said it is not surprising that China was targeting the Patriot and Po Sheng systems.

"These are several of our key capabilities which have been helped by the U.S.," he said. "They are the main obstacles to seizing Taiwan by force."


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PostPosted: 23 Mar 2012 06:51 
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Chinese plans in Seychelles revive Indian fears of encirclement


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PostPosted: 23 Mar 2012 10:44 
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Chinese military exercises

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 374900.cms


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PostPosted: 23 Mar 2012 13:07 
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Chinese massive sying.

http://www.businessinsider.com/china-sp ... ses-2012-3

Taiwan Just Uncovered A Massive Chinese Spy Ring Inside Its Military

XCpt:
Quote:
A Taiwan Air Force Captain is the fourth confirmed person to be caught spying for China within the last two years, reported the Associated Press.

The espionage from within Taiwanese ranks focused on the nation's missile defense and communications systems built with sensitive U.S. technology.

Capt. Chiang was based in the north of Taiwan where the military houses their Lockheed Martin and Raytheon-supplied Patriot missiles along with the island's early warning radar system.

In addition, local media reports translated by the AFP in Taipei said that a retired Taiwanese agent from the Ministry of Justice Investigation Bureau is in police custody for allegedly luring his colleagues to China under the pretext of traveling or doing business. They were then forcibly detained and interrogated on sensitive information, said the Chinese-language United Daily News.

Inside information on Taiwan serves China's long-standing resolve to take back the nation by military force if necessary. The successfully modern island off the southeast coast of China remains independent and resistant to reunification with the mainland since a civil war 63 years ago.

Last year, the Taiwanese army's head of communications and information was also arrested on the charge of spying for China. Taiwanese news reported that Maj. Gen. Lo Hsieh-che was recruited by a Chinese female spy in Bangkok while he was stationed in Thailand. He gave strategic secrets to Beijing and has now been sentenced to life in prison.

The Taiwan defense ministry said at the time that the Maj. Gen. was unlikely to have had access to U.S.-related intelligence. However, as a high-ranking officer he had documents regarding the purchase of the Po Sheng command and control system from American defense contractor Lockheed Martin.

The Po Sheng provides branches of the Taiwanese forces with a shared communication network that is crucial for coordinating military action.

In the event that China launches an attack on Taiwan for not ceding its independence, which China views as rebellious, the Chinese would want to know how to make their target as vulnerable as possible.

Having access to data on Taiwan's radar-enabled missile defenses and communications system would give China a crippling upper hand, as gaining control of the electromagnetic spectrum is a major asset in modern warfare.



Monster Smart Bombs Revealed As Part Of The Taiwan Arms Deal

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/jdams-so ... z1pvKflJeT


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PostPosted: 23 Mar 2012 15:17 
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China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA) in turn is now proceeding to India’s moves by undertaking its own build-up of offensive airpower capabilities stretching from eastern Ladakh all the way up to the India-Nepal border adjacent to the southwestern portion of the Tibet Autonomous Region.

It means that
A) the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) will realise its tactical objectives on the ground by resorting to massed fire-assaults (against forward-deployed Indian ground forces) delivered by a numerically superior deployed force comprising tactical non-line-of-sight battlefield support missiles (NLOS-BSM) and long-range multi-barrel rocket launchers (MBRL) capable of firing rockets equipped with sensor-fuzed munitions (SGM);
B ) such rocket artillery-based weapons would be employed for the ‘deep battlespace’ in tactical areas that are ideally suited for deployment of such weapons, i.e. the flat, locational deserts around eastern Ladakh and the foothills opposite Uttarakhand State;
C) while increased use will be made of NLOS-BSMs and tactical ballistic missiles (TBM) to neutralise the Indian Air Force’s (IAF) offensive airpower generation capacities that would be located in Jammu & Kashmir (J & K), the PLA Air Force’s (PLAAF) manned combat aircraft backed up by AEW & C platforms would be employed for blunting/neutralising any localised ground offensives (during the contact battle phase) that could be mounted by the Indian Army.

Presently, the IAF’s Western Air Command (WAC) can deploy some 150 combat aircraft of various types within air bases located inside J & K, these being Adampur (capable of housing Mirage 2000Hs, MiG-29B-12s and Jaguar IS), Awantipura (MiG-21 Bisons, MiG-29B-12s and Jaguar IS), Pathankot (MiG-21 Bisons and MiG-27UPGs), Srinagar (Su-30MKIs, MiG-21 Bisons and MiG-27UPGs), Udhampur (MiG-21 Bisons), Leh (MiG-29B-12s and Su-30MKIs) and Thoise (Su-30MKIs)


More details on this Link.


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PostPosted: 23 Mar 2012 18:01 
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This continues to be one of the worries I have and no one has explained to me how we will survive a surprise missile barrage.

Unless our assets have solid cover to withstand the initial surprise attack we will be in trouble.

and we need lots more Brahmos to hit back at everything they possess - not 10s and 20s.


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PostPosted: 23 Mar 2012 18:15 
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Sipri looks like Psy-ops more than anything else, Saudi Arabia purchases from US and UK make India defence contracts look relatively puny, similar other Gulf state Purchases. UK purchases from US for virtually everything in their subs is completely ignored. NATO country purchases from other NATO countries also do not make it to the list.


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PostPosted: 23 Mar 2012 21:32 
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Surya wrote:
This continues to be one of the worries I have and no one has explained to me how we will survive a surprise missile barrage.

Unless our assets have solid cover to withstand the initial surprise attack we will be in trouble.

and we need lots more Brahmos to hit back at everything they possess - not 10s and 20s.


+100! I"ve always had the same question - a debilitating surprise attack could make a lot of fighters and other assets unavailable. And frankly, it seems we can expect this some time soon.

What is the counter strategy? MKIs from Bareilly and Pune to take over major air ops? Where are IAF Prithvis located, they'd be useful along with the Brahmos.


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PostPosted: 23 Mar 2012 23:09 
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This is not exactly military news but a developing story in China.

Censors block online rumors about coup as China battles infighting within ruling party

Quote:
Chinese censors have blocked internet content speculating a military coup amid reports of serious power struggle within the ruling Chinese Communist Party (CCP) that threatens to disrupt a smooth transition of power when its general secretary and President Hu Jintao completes his term later this year.


Quote:
The struggle has come to the fore after the party's Chongqing city head Bo Xilai was removed from his post as his deputy had reportedly sought asylum in the US. Bo, who is a CCP founding member's son, was a contender for the party's top post.


-Ankit


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PostPosted: 24 Mar 2012 04:00 
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You can recognize an article (actually, farticle) written by Chor Gupta by just sampling the number of abbreviations in the article...Non-Line of Sight Battle Support Missile??? I mean....what the fvck!!! is there a line of sight battle support missile???? And the comment about massed fire assaults and MBRL is made as if the joker has discovered some hidden secret....guess what we were doing in Kargil before infantry went in for the final assault???? yup....using fire assault to soften the enemy and pin him down. All the above is given. What we need to do is get the infra up ASAP at least in middle sector...from the Chinese side, the height of the Tibetan plateau means that the gradient to the LAC from Tibet is relatively shallow while in our case it is very steep. But once you come up, the region is extremely rugged...IMO, the PLA can induct and sustain more troops in the region. However, the lines of communication are limited and axis of advance can be only through the valleys - which are narrow and few. The mountain ridges compartmentalize the sector and lateral movement is next to impossible - at least for any large body of men. The higher reaches around the tri-junction areas (India/Nepal/Tibet) are worse off than Siachen - the terrain is so bad. If I were a PLA general, I'd make a dash for the disputed pockets (Barahoti pass area) and sit tight...no point going further...they would not reach anywhere.


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PostPosted: 24 Mar 2012 05:01 
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China has been about large numbers. And, that has its own strengths. However, if the first wave can be absorbed then they are in a decent amount of trouble. This is not 1962, although there are some amount of parallels.

Secondly, what if, their gamble does not pay off? After all IA has the advantage of taking risks that the PLA does not.

What bothers me is the second front is now manned by china too. Pakis have been sidelined. But with time IA will solve that too.

Like I have always said, there is a very small window within which China can act. That window is slowly closing, although the likes of GoI are helping keeping it open.


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PostPosted: 24 Mar 2012 07:47 
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rohitvats wrote:
You can recognize an article (actually, farticle) written by Chor Gupta by just sampling the number of abbreviations in the article...Non-Line of Sight Battle Support Missile??? I mean....what the fvck!!! is there a line of sight battle support missile????


:D If there is any award for mindless use of jargon, he should get that. For quite sometime, he is using this NLOS prefixing all missiles that comes for discussion, If I could recall correctly. Even Prahaar is addressed as NLOS, when Prahaar was not fully evolved and exact details were not forthcoming from the development agency.

At present only missile from Indian stable which has enough details to confirm as NLOS is long range Helina.


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PostPosted: 24 Mar 2012 07:53 
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Cain Marko wrote:
Surya wrote:
This continues to be one of the worries I have and no one has explained to me how we will survive a surprise missile barrage.

Unless our assets have solid cover to withstand the initial surprise attack we will be in trouble.

and we need lots more Brahmos to hit back at everything they possess - not 10s and 20s.


+100! I"ve always had the same question - a debilitating surprise attack could make a lot of fighters and other assets unavailable. And frankly, it seems we can expect this some time soon.

What is the counter strategy? MKIs from Bareilly and Pune to take over major air ops? Where are IAF Prithvis located, they'd be useful along with the Brahmos.


Missiles/rockets are considered as long range artillery. If the long range of such missiles acts as an advantage for the adversary, it also gives us some advantage. You can have monitoring radars at vantage points, that gives us enough warning to hide or act if we have the necessary counter strike options.


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PostPosted: 24 Mar 2012 10:13 
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^^^^^

In addition, missile/rockets have a predetermined path. Many a times mountain slopes can be used to shelter artillery, etc.

IA has tested a Brahmos that is capable of turning around or diving vertically to attack a position. Not too many place to hide. I am not too sure, but, I do not think the Chinese have something in the same class - yet.


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PostPosted: 31 Mar 2012 08:21 
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Article from CNBC
http://www.cnbc.com/id/46905488


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PostPosted: 31 Mar 2012 08:53 
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The ballistics of artillery shells is supposed to be completely different at high altitude than what is tabulated for lower altitudes so I guess each area where artillery is to be place has to be customized in some way I guess - at least in terms of equipping the men with the correct parameters of feeding them onto a computer.


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PostPosted: 31 Mar 2012 12:08 
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Awacs and J-10's

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PostPosted: 02 Apr 2012 02:08 
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Is China the next superpower?

Many people see China's strength mainly in its economy and although China's economy now ranks as the second largest in the world, its per capita income is still roughly 10 times lower than that of Japan and the United States. Due to The low standard of living China is forced to export. And that's what the Chinese economy is, an export- oriented economic system. This has made China overwhelmingly dependent on consumers in the West. Chinese exports, which go through the global sea trade routes, are dominated by the U.S. Navy. This forces Beijing to invest its resources to build a modern navy to protect its interests. Aside from the economics and naval buildup, China faces enormous domestic issues. The east side of its territory is inhabited by secessionist-


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PostPosted: 03 Apr 2012 04:11 
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http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/world ... .html?_r=1

INteresting Read of what the *deleted* think .....


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PostPosted: 03 Apr 2012 04:17 
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S_Prasad wrote:


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PostPosted: 05 Apr 2012 19:13 
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Quote:
China has funded or plans to invest in several major infrastructure projects including ports in Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Burma, in a policy described as a “string of pearls” with which to ‘choke’ India.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/seychelles/8953319/China-considers-Seychelles-military-base-plan.html

This could get interesting as the US does operate drones from Seychelles. Dheere Dheere sahi but they are strategically positioning around the Indian Sub-continent.


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PostPosted: 05 Apr 2012 19:47 
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NRao wrote:
^^^^^

In addition, missile/rockets have a predetermined path. Many a times mountain slopes can be used to shelter artillery, etc.

IA has tested a Brahmos that is capable of turning around or diving vertically to attack a position. Not too many place to hide. I am not too sure, but, I do not think the Chinese have something in the same class - yet.


Except that the Brahmos must be compromising its range to be able to do that. It already has only bare minimum ground-launch range to be useful against China. Air-launched Brahmos missiles will do better, but then you are coupling aircraft that would be needed for other tasks on launch duty for the Brahmos, making it into a longer range PGM rather than a force-multiplier. Also it forces the delivery aircraft of having to fight past the Chinese air-defences in order to provide any useful deep-strike range to the Brahmos.

Brahmos is very nice for use against Pakistan, and surely has use in a tactical FEBA support role in Tibet, but its not a counterforce weapon against China the way some might suggest. The ground launched versions are sorely lacking range to attack some of the deeper Main Operating Bases for the Chinese forces.

Nirbhay will fill that role when it comes in. Its subsonic, has long-range and will not require air-launches for hitting deep inside China, freeing up aircraft for other tasks near the border and keeping them safe from Chinese air-defences.

Added Later: Brahmos high-speed capabilites make it ideal for attacking deadly long-range, Army/Corps level air defences (read Chinese S-300 batteries) which are anyway placed on relatively open terrain and cannot be hidden if they are operational.

-Vivek


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PostPosted: 05 Apr 2012 20:34 
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vivek


true

based on official range

one hopes.... :wink:


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PostPosted: 05 Apr 2012 20:40 
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China’s military rise
The dragon’s new teeth
A rare look inside the world’s biggest military expansion

http://www.economist.com/node/21552193

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PostPosted: 06 Apr 2012 08:42 
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http://news.yahoo.com/us-miscalculates- ... 14473.html

US miscalculates China military growth: study

Quote:
The United States has underestimated the growth of China's military as policymakers have taken public statements at face value or failed to understand Beijing's thinking, a study said Thursday.

The report prepared for the US-China Economic and Security Review Commission said the United States had a mixed record on predicting the rising power's new weaponry, including largely missing the emergence of more advanced submarines.

As for the speed of military modernization, the study found "identifiable cases of miscalculation" with China developing anti-ship ballistic missiles and stealth fighter-jets earlier than the United States expected.

US analysis could have improved if more experts read Chinese or even looked at open publications such as academic technical journals, it said.

"US observers should not take at face value statements from the Chinese government on military policy, as they could either be deceptive, or simply issued by agencies" such as the foreign ministry "that have no real say over military matters," it said.

The staff report was prepared for the Commission, which was set up by Congress in 2000 to assess security implications from China, and does not represent the view of the body or of the US government.

The study said that US experts "may have failed to fully appreciate the extent to which the Chinese leadership views the United States as a fundamental threat to China's security."

It said that China's views were "inflamed" by incidents including the 1999 bombing of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade, which the United States said was accidental, and the US show of naval force near Taiwan in 1996 after Beijing's missile tests.

The study said that US experts assumed in the late 1990s that China would never catch up militarily to the United States and would put a low priority on its defense industry compared with other parts of the economy.

"A decade on, it is now clear that much of the conventional wisdom about China dating from the turn of the century has proven to be dramatically wrong," it said.

"To avoid being similarly caught off-guard in 2022, US analysts should carefully reexamine many of their widely held assumptions about the Chinese government and its policy goals," it said.

China said its military spending will top $100 billion in 2012, the latest sharp increase. While many experts believe its actual spending is much higher, it remains far below the $613 billion requested by the US Defense Department for fiscal year 2013.

...


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PostPosted: 07 Apr 2012 12:41 
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China military warned on rumours
China's official military newspaper has warned soldiers to ignore internet rumours and maintain absolute loyalty to the party, following online rumours of a coup last week.


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PostPosted: 08 Apr 2012 08:47 
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Beijing's "Starter Carrier" and Future Steps: Alternatives and Implications: Naval War College Review

Book review: Red Star over the Pacific: China’s Rise and the Challenge to U.S.Maritime Strategy


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PostPosted: 08 Apr 2012 10:01 
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Exploring Unmanned Drones as an Option for China’s First Carrier --- Jamestown Foundation Dated 30-March-2012

There are people who are claiming that it will take PLAN a significant amount of time to master its naval aviation wing. This is based on a fallacy known as "mirror-effect". The reasoning given was that since it took USN soo long to master naval aviation, it will take PLAN a similar time. They forget that when USN, RN and the IJN were trying out carrier based aviation, there were a few countries attempting the same. Now there are a plethora of countries which have naval aviation experience, and some of these countries will not be averse to pass on the their expertise to PLAN. We should not forget that the Chinese manned space program did not suffer from all the delays that other countries space and manned program suffered from, as there were countries which were willing, if not eager, to share the know-how with the Chinese.

But we are digressing from the topic. What the above mentioned article says that in stead of having a human element in carrier aviation, the Chinese might go in for a unmanned aviation complement for their carriers, so as to "leap-frog" the current known limitations of carrier aviation. For example the cost of F/A-18 hornet was USD 55 million. The cost of a unmanned weaponized UAV is less than half of the same. And we are not even considering the operational cost, just the acquisition cost. Consider what the article claims
Quote:
The combination of size, space and economics of UAVs suggest an extremely tantalizing possibility for naval combat situations. For example, the Northrop Grumman X-47B (Unmanned Combat Air System Demonstrator or UCAS-D) footprint is at least one third smaller than the F-18E. If the wings are collapsed, the X-47B footprint is further reduced. Not only is the X-47B’s horizontal cross section smaller but also the vertical cross section. If UAV weight reductions match the footprint reductions, it could even be possible to stack helicopter or fixed-wing UAVs in multiple columns in the hangar bay or on the flight deck of the ex-Varyag. This could dramatically increase the overall number of UAVs that could be flown, increasing strike potential. The typical compliment of the Kuznetsov-class carrier is 41 mixed rotary- or fixed-wing assets. Taking into account the savings in size and weight, it could be possible that as many as 60-plus UAVs could be mission capable at any one time. Flying times and range also are significantly greater for UAVs depending on the variation.


This makes sense as going forward in naval aviation or plain vanilla air force, the human element will get eliminated. Also it is difficult to replace a fighter pilot, as the training and competence take time to build up and replace. For example the IJN aviation progressively suffered as the war in pacific went on, because of the attrition in its fighter pilots. In fact come 1945 a majority of its best aviation pilots were long gone. The same happened to Nazi air force post 1943. Does that mean that we, as in Indians should be worried? Well not exactly.

A few months ago, in Dec-2011, Iran bought down a stealth drone of US. Not via guns or fighters but by attacking its communication link with its base/controller. That is the greatest weakness of UAV, whether armed or unarmed. This does not mean that we should be complacent. Rather that would be a mistake. We should take this breather to expedite our owned armed UAV program, if we have any, and target for autonomous capability. For example programming the UAV to accomplish a mission on the ground without any interaction with its home base or carrier.


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PostPosted: 08 Apr 2012 10:10 
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UCAVs might see some use as strike role, but are plenty far from running a CAP air defence grid.


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PostPosted: 08 Apr 2012 18:39 
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As we sit and discuss the current capabilities of a UAV it does seem that it is ideal for strike role and as a surveillance platform. If we look back to the history or shall we say evolution of fighters, then initially too, planes were viewed primarily as surveillance platforms. History records instances where opposing pilots used to wave at each other while they went on with their work. It was later on that guns were added to the planes. The reasoning was for them to shoot down enemy surveillance platforms.

Now look at where planes have evolved to right now. We have fighters, bombers, pure surveillance planes, transport, etc. They have completely morphed and taken on roles which are mind boggling.

The future of UAV will be on similar lines. Right now we do not see them suitable for limited roles. Just like fighters planes have their beginnings in humble single propeller surveillance planes, Armed UAV too have their origins in surveillance drones. UAV will serve in the near future in all of the current roles which manned planes are serving. And UAV is just a subset of the entire gamut of Unmanned Vehicles.

What these Unmanned Vehicles will do is return the balance of war not to the person who can field the largest army, but to those who can manufacture the most of them. Ever since the American Civil war ended or shall we say the Indian Mutiny was crushed, it has been an article of faith that god is on the side of the biggest and mightiest armies. That will change.


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PostPosted: 08 Apr 2012 21:16 
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well whoever can field and train the mightiest army would have the most cash to produce the highest number and best UAV/droids/mecharobots too. these things wont be cheap as capabilities increase. already they are approaching $100 mil at the high end global hawk level.


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PostPosted: 08 Apr 2012 22:37 
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The Chinese hav a much, much cheaper method of attaining all these things: steal or hire.

I suggest India invest in something similar before venture beyond where they are today. And, IMHO, specially the IN, is doing a pretty good job of planning and deploying that plan.

Also, one more thing that will be crucial/critical is to invest in pooling - as in with other like minded nations.


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PostPosted: 09 Apr 2012 12:08 
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DIA Assessment: Chinese Nuclear Modernization: Smaller and Later
- Hans Kristensen


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PostPosted: 10 Apr 2012 22:30 
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Interesting analysis by APA

Advances in PLA-N Carrier Aviation


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PostPosted: 11 Apr 2012 08:14 
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Singha wrote:
produce the highest number and best UAV/droids/mecharobots too

Pakistan has a high number of Oedipal entities that have a name that looks like what I read "mecharobots" as when I saw the word. :) Sorry. OT


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PostPosted: 11 Apr 2012 12:18 
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Location: Col of the regiment, ORR JTF unit
well there you go. a 200 mil field army right there once the chinese have implanted a control chip in each brain.


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PostPosted: 11 Apr 2012 15:18 
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BRFite

Joined: 06 Dec 2009 14:09
Posts: 296
Trouble in S.China Sea

Philippine warship 'in stand-off' with Chinese vessels


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PostPosted: 11 Apr 2012 16:54 
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BRFite

Joined: 07 Dec 2008 02:32
Posts: 987
China launches space drug laboratory


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PostPosted: 12 Apr 2012 14:22 
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BRF Oldie

Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31
Posts: 11771
China's game is for real - Ranjit B Rai


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