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PostPosted: 19 Dec 2011 19:19 
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RajeshA wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:
Lalu when he was power would not dare make such statements which would have made him bad in the Delhi based Sickular circuit.

I think he has made some remark earlier also regarding pride in the fact that Lord Krishna was a Yadav too.

As the leader of the Yadavs, Lalu Prasad Yadav can hardly be seen as not supporting the word of the most popular Yadav in India and beyond.

But regardless of his reasoning, it is a good thing that he has picked that up as an issue!


Let one leader fume and another say its unfortunate that freedom of religious practise is being compromised :)
Why require consistency of political leaders? Arent they supposed to reflect popular opinion? If opinion shifts, so should they :lol:


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PostPosted: 19 Dec 2011 20:12 
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RajeshA wrote:
This is not something against Hindus, or that they want to distance themselves from Hindus. They look at it a lot more technically than we from India do. To be frank, I don't have a clue why a Hindu should oppose ISKCON or feel discomfort in it.

I do not have any disagreement with what you have stated, I was just pointing out in different language what you explained. I do not see any danger/malice in their approach, rather I am a part of that community and have good relations with them. Some of them also understand the small differences in their and my approach.

RajeshA wrote:
prahaar wrote:
Now coming to the Indo-Russia relevance to this topic, there is a swell of support for the vedic memes in E-Europe (Latvia, Russia, etc) given the fact that many were nature worshippers before the advent of organized church, so for them, giving Aahuti to Indra, Varuna, Agni, etc fits in well with their folklore. Combine this with overall decline in xtianity in Europe, newly found political support for church in Russia, west meddling in Russia, provides many reasons. To give an example, countries like Finland, Sweden, Baltic states who do not lose a chance to ungli Russia, are the key proponents of ISKCON in Russia, this might make Russi establishment types good false excuse or good reasons or a combination of both.

For most Russians, ISKCON does not have any connection with Bharat, for them it is something coming via western europe. What is needed is decoupling of BG/Vedic Philosophy with any single cult, otherwise we risk hijacking of Dharmic symbols like it was done w.r.t swastik. Banning of BG must be opposed, what it says applies to srushti not just ISKCON followers.

There is no hijacking of symbols taking place here. ISKCON is not a single-leader led organization anymore. It has got a broad leadership.

In fact there is revival of pantheist neo-paganism in Eastern Europe but also in Northern Europe and USA. There are movements like Ásatrú, Odinism, Forn Siðr, Wicca, Theodism, Druidry, etc. There is much scope for Hinduism to give these religions a more solid cosmological and philosophical foundation, as all these religions have many blank spaces. Learned Hindu gurus should open a more intense dialogue with these movements.


Again, I do not have any disagreement with what you have stated above. I was just pointing out the fertile landscape available for Dharmic memes to grow while being careful about SD/Hinduism/Krishnaism symbols not being misused by anyone. Also, I should make it clear that in no way I intended to accuse ISKCON of hijacking (I am sorry if that sentence comes across to mean that) dharmic symbols.

Having experienced my friends getting knock on the door by police during Diwali for making Rangoli that contained Swastika (in 2010), I know the clear dangers of this phenomena. ISKCON is doing great awakening, my observations were more to do with the reason why some Indians may not be completely comfortable with their ways of working.

All this does not change the fact that for many in Russia, many of the promoters of ISKCON are from Baltic states/NEurope, I feel it should be explained to Russians that BG/ISKCON/SD are much bigger than E-Europe N-Europe etc, and it is not (and cannot) be owned by anyone.


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PostPosted: 20 Dec 2011 00:21 
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Guess who sat on the issue for over 6 weeks

Pulok sat on Bhagvad Gita issue for six whole weeks
Wonder what Obama or the King of Saudi Arabia would do in a visit if an Indian court had cooked the goose for banning their holy book

http://governancenow.com/news/regular-s ... hole-weeks

Other worthies who were sent the communication
A similar protocol was endeavoured for four key people on cc., ie, UPA chairperson Sonia Gandhi, Commerce and Industry Minister Anand Sharma, External Affairs Minister SM Krishna, and National Security Advisor Shiv Shankar Menon. It was hoped that diligent follow up will ensure that at least one of these people will understand that doing business with Russia will be difficult once India’s social media stream discovers how a state prosecutor is leading the charge against the Bhagwatgita.


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PostPosted: 20 Dec 2011 00:36 
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prahaar ji,

thanks for the clarification! :)


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PostPosted: 20 Dec 2011 02:18 
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RajeshA ji,
I should have put up a disclaimer on the last post of mine. anyway, it wasn't my intention to hurt anybody's beliefs or feelings. let us agree to disagree here. but I still contend that in the quest for finding something suitable for the "west" ISKCON traveled too far too fast. they should have been more circumspect in their expansionary phase, IMO.

-peace-


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PostPosted: 20 Dec 2011 19:50 
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Petition against banning of the Bhagavad Gita in Russia:

http://www.petitions24.com/gita


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PostPosted: 20 Dec 2011 20:04 
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Carl wrote:
Petition against banning of the Bhagavad Gita in Russia:

http://www.petitions24.com/gita

Bhagavad Gita too hot for Russia
Quote:
A ban on the Bhagavad Gita by a Moscow court that judged the sacred Hindu religious text guilty of advocating war and spreading social discord has vexed the Russian capital's 15,000-strong Indian community and the Hare Krishna movement. With Indian luminaries and parliamentarians rushing into the brouhaha, scholars say they cannot fathom why the transcendental teachings should be branded "extremist literature".

Our parliamentarians should be focussing on the Lokpal issue. Although this is important, I hope they are not misuing this as an opportunity to delay.


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PostPosted: 20 Dec 2011 23:55 
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Do read in full....

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/russi ... y/889960/0

Russia expresses sadness over Bhagwad Gita controversy

Quote:
"It is strange that such events are unfolding in the beautiful university city in Siberia, as Tomsk which is famous for its secularism and religious tolerance," Alexander M Kadakin, Russian Ambassador in India said in a statement here.

"Well, it seems that even the lovely city of Tomsk has its own neighbourhood madmen. It is sad indeed.

"I consider it categorically inadmissible when any holy scripture is taken to the courts. For all believers these texts are sacred," the Ambassador said.

Kadakin said, "It is not normal either when religious books are sent for examination to ignorant people. Their academic scrutiny should be done at scientists' fora, congresses, seminars, etc. but not in courts."


I quite like the Russian Amby's views, on one hand he clearly holds the Bhagawat in high esteem, but does not give a "scripture" a free pass (thus blocking scriptures which demand no inquiry therein) -- asking for books to be examined in intellectual space.

India takes up Gita ban issue with Russian authorities


Quote:

India has strongly taken up the issue of demand for banning Hindu scripture Bhagavad Gita, which a group linked to the Christian Orthodox Church has described as 'extremist', with the Russian authorities, Indian Ambassador to Russia Ajai Malhotra said.

Malhotra personally and his mission here have been publicly expressed their support to the local chapter of International Society of Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON).


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PostPosted: 21 Dec 2011 02:09 
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A picture is worth 1000 words
http://www.salagram.net/sstp-Moscow.html


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PostPosted: 21 Dec 2011 02:20 
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RamaY wrote:
A picture is worth 1000 words
http://www.salagram.net/sstp-Moscow.html

Now look for the Raa Agint in those photos! :wink:


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PostPosted: 21 Dec 2011 03:53 
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Just as India has established the India-Japan-US trilateral dialogue, so too should India establish a India-Iran-Russia trilateral dialogue especially dealing with Afghanistan and Energy.


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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2011 14:40 
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The Gita episode should have been a non issue, which has been blown out of proportion, by the Media & by inaction from GoI.

The case was originally filed in June '11, in Tomsk (not Moscow, as was incorrectly reported in some articles).

I've been to Tomsk several times - had a Girlfriend who lived there :)
Tomsk is a quiet provincial town with hardly any outsiders or Religious minorities (since it is not on the main Trans Siberian railway,
and had few immigrants). News from Tomsk hardly ever makes it to the National media - indeed, the coverage on this incident in the Russian media, is based on quotes from Indian media (no Russian media channel had covered the case or verdict).
The few articles I have seen, are actually surprised at this verdict and stress on the close ties India and Russia have.

If the Russian church wanted to assert itself - against ISCKON, it would have chosen to file the case in Moscow, rather than a province
where there are a negligible number of Hindus and people are curious rather than Xenophobic, about outsiders.
Hence, I believe this is the work of some idiot, or fringe group, who managed to influence the local prosecutor.
The case could have been killed had GoI intervened at the outset and either had a quiet word with the Russian Govt (which does
have influence over judges and courts), or hired a good lawyer.


Last edited by Deans on 22 Dec 2011 17:35, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2011 16:22 
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What if this case really is a psy-ops by UK or US dirty tricks departments to drive a wedge between India and Russia?


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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2011 17:40 
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Yes rather than ISKCON being the penetrated, those who filed the case could have been penetrated by Western Agencies to drive a wedge between India and Russia.


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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2011 17:57 
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So tomorrow if Russia or some other state takes offence to Quran and attempts to outlaw it, can we expect the now-silent sickulars to go ballistic, citing the present scenario?


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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2011 20:13 
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abhischekcc wrote:
What if this case really is a psy-ops by UK or US dirty tricks departments to drive a wedge between India and Russia?


I wouldn't rule it out.


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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2011 20:48 
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RajeshA wrote:
RamaY wrote:
A picture is worth 1000 words
http://www.salagram.net/sstp-Moscow.html

Now look for the Raa Agint in those photos! :wink:


Veeji,

That sister who was giving harati and all those little little Sri Krishnas and Sri Lalitas running around :D


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PostPosted: 23 Dec 2011 13:59 
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By Jove! Smiley must be turning over in his grave with this turn up for the books.Imagine it,the Queeen renting out her palace grounds to the ....Russkies!
Cold War afficiandos will be horrified at the very thought of it...or is it a diabolic plot by MI-5/6 to rumble the Russkies at the party?.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... sians.html

Queen rents Olympic venue to Russians
The Queen is renting out the grounds of Kensington Palace to Russia’s Olympic commitee during the 2012 Games in order to boost the Royal Household’s budget.


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PostPosted: 24 Dec 2011 00:20 
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abhischekcc wrote:
What if this case really is a psy-ops by UK or US dirty tricks departments to drive a wedge between India and Russia?

Now that I think about it, it seems quite likely. After all, just recently India and Russia issued a joint statement over Iran, against military action and in favor of diplomacy, while also warning Iran about complying with IAEA, etc. It could well be psy-ops to break up Indo-Russian common ground.

I do recall that a few years back when the antagonism between the Russian Orthodox Church and the Hare Krishnas was hot, one of the leaders of the Orthodox campaign against the Hare Krishnas was actually based in the US! He was once photographed directing a stoning of a Rath-yatra. He was also behind the co-ordinated effort at that time, which included a respected archbishop writing a thesis that Krishna = Satan, etc. So all this was being co-ordinated from within the US. At that time the significance of this didn't strike me, but now that I think about it...


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PostPosted: 26 Dec 2011 17:21 
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Russia’s GDP may grow by 4,1% in 2011

Quote:
MOSCOW, August 27 (Itar-Tass) —— The Russian Ministry of Economic Development expects that Russia’s GDP may grow by 4.1% in 2011 that is a little bit lower than the previous target rate (4.2%). The specified report on the forecast of Russian socio-economic development for 2011 and the planned period until 2014 contained these figures, Deputy Minister of Economic Development Andrei Klepach told reporters on Saturday.

“This is caused by the fact that the effect (of the growth) is quite low for the first half of this year, if to extrapolate it, we can reach 3.8%-3.9% in growth. But we expect some accelerated growth by the yearend,” Klepach elaborated. Meanwhile, the Russian GDP will increase by 3.7% against 3.5%, which were earlier forecasted in 2012, and by four percent (previously forecasted 4.2%) in 2013 and 4.6% in 2014, he noted.

The forecast for the growth of investments in the capital assets was left unchanged at six percent of the previous forecast. Meanwhile, “we raised substantially” the consumer demand forecast, Klepach pointed out. “For instance, the retail trade, went up 5.3% according to our forecasts. The figure was 3.8% in the previous forecast, but this was reported before the Russian Statistics Service revised the basic growth rate,” the deputy minister of economic development elaborated. “The forecasts were lowered in terms of investments for the years to come,” Klepach said. The investments will grow just by 7.8% (8.8% in the previous forecast) in 2012, and by 7.1% (7.7% in the previous forecast) in 2013 and by 7.2% (9.6% in the previous forecast) in 2014. This downward tendency will be taking shape primarily thanks to a lower growth rate of state investments and the investments of infrastructure industries, infrastructure companies and natural monopolies.

The industrial production growth forecast for 2011 was brought down to 4.8% from 5.4%, which were earlier forecasted. The Ministry of Economic Development did not revise the real incomes of people for 2011. In 2012 the real incomes will increase by 4.8% (four percent were previously forecasted), will grow by 4.9% (4.4% were previously forecasted) in 2013 and 5.1% (five percent were previously forecasted) in 2014. The salary forecast for this year was revised in the upward trend. The salary will grow by 3.6% against previously forecasted 3.3% by the end of this year.

As for the inflation rate, the ministry lowered the upper level of the inflation corridor. Thus, the inflation forecast for 2011 is within 6.5%-7%. “Now we are close to 6.5%, but the inflation will hardly go down due to the inflation risks at the end of the year,” Klepach said. The inflation forecast for 2012-2013 remained unchanged at 5-6% and 4.5%-5.5%, respectively. Only in 2014 the inflation rate will accelerate slightly to make 4.5%-5.5% instead of 4-5%, which were forecasted previously.


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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2011 02:12 
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ISKCON in Russia is funded 100% by Ford Foundation - for, as one of my favorite posters likes to put it - social engineering. Just a simple check will make this apparent.

ISKCON was used to bring "God to a godless Russia". Started in the early 1970s and a decade later (under Brezhnev) several ISKCON folks were jailed.

I think it was in 1985 (very much during the cold war) when the deputy head of the KGB stated: three main threats to the Soviet Union were: pop music, Western culture, and Hare Krishna.

Look up "Committee to Free Soviet Hare Krishnas". This has a long history to it.

Ironically, in 1988, the Council for Religious Affairs officially registered the Moscow Society for Krishna Consciousness (the first religious society registered in the Soviet Union since World War II).

This is definitely foreign backed. Doesn't excuse Ugly Russian Xenophobia of course.


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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2011 03:07 
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Manu wrote:
ISKCON in Russia is funded 100% by Ford Foundation - for, as one of my favorite posters likes to put it - social engineering. Just a simple check will make this apparent.

You might have also cared to mention that one of the Iskcon founder's disciples was Ford scion Alfred Ford aka Ambarisha Das. He heavily funds big projects within Iskcon, including some in Mayapur, India, and a proposed "Vedic planetarium", etc.

Moreover, it was also the Iskcon founder's own statements (not Ford Foundation's) that his greatest wish was for Vaishnavism to be preached in the Communist and the Islamist countries.

Further, the idea of "social engg" was conceived by the Iskcon founder himself (not Ford Foundation), in line with the mission statements of the 6 Gosvamis of Vrindavan 400 years ago who were charged with rolling back Islamization and reconstructing Hindu holy places that were lying dormant, such as Vrindavan, Puri, and over the last 150 years, Navadwipa in WB. Bhaktivedanta Swami called it "cultural conquest".


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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2011 03:22 
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Conspiracy theorists would see nothing but.....


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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2011 11:53 
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Carl wrote:
one of the leaders of the Orthodox campaign against the Hare Krishnas was actually based in the US! He was once photographed directing a stoning of a Rath-yatra. He was also behind the co-ordinated effort at that time, which included a respected archbishop writing a thesis that Krishna = Satan, etc. So all this was being co-ordinated from within the US. At that time the significance of this didn't strike me, but now that I think about it...

I do remember seeing one such program on TV, long time ago, that said Krishna was a demon. When one opens our heart and asks Krishna to come in it, we are asking a demon to take over. But the US is full of crazies like that.
Gautam


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PostPosted: 28 Dec 2011 20:52 
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Ford foundation or no, the russians will not risk pissing off India at any cost.

Sheer weight of economics and greed will triumph over ideology and over religion every time.


Russian court dismisses plea to ban Bhagavad Gita

Quote:
NEW DELHI: Hindus in Russia Wednesday won a hard-fought six-month battle in a Siberian court against a plea to ban the Bhagavad Gita, among their holiest of religious scriptures, with the judge dismissing the state prosecutors' stand the book be branded "extremist" literature, as first reported by IANS.

The court in the Siberian city of Tomsk took up the case for a final hearing Wednesday morning and the judge, after reviewing the petition from the state prosecutors and the responses from the Hindus, dismissed the plea.

"The court has dismissed the state prosecutors' case during the hearing today," Sadhu Priya Das, a leader of the Russian unit of International Society for Krishna Consciousness (Iskcon), told IANS on the phone from Moscow.

The case has been going on in the Tomsk city court since June and Hindus in Russia had pleaded with the Indian government to intervene diplomatically.

After the Indian authorities were informed of the case, the government in New Delhi and the Indian embassy in Moscow too took up the matter with the Russian government.

Indian External Affairs Minister SM Krishna had met Russian Ambassador to India Alexander Kadakin Tuesday on the issue.


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PostPosted: 28 Dec 2011 22:12 
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chetak wrote:
Sheer weight of economics and greed will triumph over ideology and over religion every time.


And a real meeting of minds too.

That is mocked, but is true nevertheless.


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PostPosted: 28 Dec 2011 23:09 
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Its good that this is behind , the court took the right decision and on merit.

The issue was too sensitive now the court take a decision in favour of ISKON many would complain its done under Indian Government Pressure or Russian pressuring its court to take that decision or something else.

If the court would have banned the Holy Book or some text of it many would have complained it was done under Orthodox Church Pressure with a nod nod wink wink from Russian Government.

Either ways it was a legal case all along with loosing party having every right to appeal in higher court.


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PostPosted: 31 Dec 2011 21:05 
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This is an interesting article with interesting stats and interesting images of life in USSR. The article compares the condition and views of people in Lithuania, Ukraine and Russia back in 1991 before the collapse of Soviet Union with that of now.

They say that the Democracy, Capitalism and all that which came from west in USSR is a big flop. The survey comes out with some interesting facts. Like People in these countries now prefer a strong leader solving their nation's problem rather than having a democratic multiparty system in which politicians are only worried about their image, turning down the opposition. Similarly more than half percent of Russians and Ukrainians feel that it was a misfortune that Soviet Union collapsed resulting into a unipolar world which led US freely launch wars on small countries for its benefit.

The article Democracy, Capitalism Loosening in Former Soviet Union, Union is Being Missed appeared on The World Reporter


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PostPosted: 01 Jan 2012 15:27 
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In communist ideology, they are very much concerned of their image. The great Chinese communist leader has to stage manage things, be it a visiting a farmer or anything else. And who said that U.S is democratic. Inside it's Communist with lobbies, corporates ruling while outside it's more Maoist. :lol:


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PostPosted: 01 Jan 2012 18:38 
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Sanku wrote:
chetak wrote:
Sheer weight of economics and greed will triumph over ideology and over religion every time.


And a real meeting of minds too.

That is mocked, but is true nevertheless.


The issue of a ban in saudi arabia still remains with no one in the GOI willing to bell the cat??


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PostPosted: 01 Jan 2012 19:26 
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^ because the cat is not in SA it is here inside India. If SA thinks they dont need Gita well good luck. But hell somebody needs to make the Russies understand that they dont need to be afraid of Gita being used to subvert their country. Quite to the contrary Gita can be the best tool to hold their country together (though it is not in any danger of getting apart). If Amerikhans can learn to use a foreign philosophy to their advantage (if it really is the case) then so can the Russies.


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PostPosted: 04 Jan 2012 11:26 
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chetak wrote:
Sanku wrote:
"chetak">>Sheer weight of economics and greed will triumph over ideology and over religion every time.

And a real meeting of minds too.

That is mocked, but is true nevertheless.


The issue of a ban in saudi arabia still remains with no one in the GOI willing to bell the cat??


Chetak-ji -- I dont quite understand what you meant here.

I believe it strengthens my point further -- with Russia & India, there is convergence of intrests, as nations, DESPITE the govts in question and thus most things eventually work even if economic relations shudder. With other countries like SA, things are fundamentally opposed, and thats why some things never happen despite all the economic pappi-jhappi.


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PostPosted: 04 Jan 2012 14:55 
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Russia slams US for its hypocrisy and human rights abuse


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PostPosted: 06 Feb 2012 10:25 
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Mother’s boys: conversations with the parents of Russia’s neo-Nazis


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PostPosted: 12 Feb 2012 02:49 
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From this book on Kennan.

Image
Image


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PostPosted: 13 Feb 2012 01:43 
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Continuing from above:

Image
Image


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PostPosted: 13 Feb 2012 01:45 
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It would be interesting to know whether similar analysis can be done for Pakis.


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PostPosted: 13 Feb 2012 12:57 
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What is the purpose of these links. Please elaborate . TIA


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PostPosted: 16 Feb 2012 18:11 
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India will benefit from GLONASS


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PostPosted: 17 Feb 2012 04:19 
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Quote:
Russian superlaser to be as good as H-bomb

Published: 12 February, 2012, 22:41

Russia has launched a $1.5 billion project to create a high-energy superlaser site which designers pledge will be the best in the world. Capable of igniting nuclear fusion, the facility will be used both for thermonuclear weapon and civil purposes.

The new laser device will be used for inertial confinement fusion (ICF) studies. The field aims to recreate in the lab the processes which happen inside a star or in a hydrogen bomb explosion. ICF is similar to what scientists are trying to do with the International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor (ITER) project, but takes an alternative approach to how nuclear fusion is started.

The laser facility will be developed by the Research Institute of Experimental Physics (RFNC-VNIIEF), a leading Russian nuclear laboratory. In its six decades of history, it was involved in the development of both the military and civilian nuclear programs in Russia.
The site will have the size of a 360-meter long 10-story building and be built near the Sarov technology park in Nizhny Novgorod region in central Russia, said the institute’s head of research, Radiy Ilkaev, who said it will be a dual-purpose device.

“On the one hand, there is the defense component, because high energy density plasma physics can be productively studied on such devices. It’s necessary for developing thermonuclear weapons. On the other hand, there is the power industry component. The world’s leading physicists believe that laser nuclear fusion can be useful for future energetics,” the scientist said.

The Russian device will be compatible with the American National Ignition Facility (NIF) and the French Laser Mégajoule (LMJ) in terms of their capabilities. The US laboratory is currently online. The French counterpart is due to be launched in 2012. The Russian facility may be ready in a decade, Ilkaev estimates.

Ilkaev says the future Russian facility will be able to deliver 2.8 megajoules of energy to its target, as compared to energy levels of about 2 megajoules for the American and French lasers.
“We are making our device later than they did, because such projects are costly, but ours will be the best in the world,” the scientist promised.

An ICF laser device takes a powerful laser beam, splits it into a dozen separate “beamlets”, amplifies each one individually and shoots all of them at a pellet of fusion fuel. If carefully timed, the pinhead-sized target implodes on itself, which makes the mix of deuterium and tritium in it 100 times denser than lead and heats it up to 100 million degrees. This is enough to start a chain nuclear fusion reaction.

The process is somewhat similar to what happens in a thermonuclear bomb. In such a weapon an ordinary fission bomb is used to produce energy to trigger reaction in fusion fuel. An ICF attempts re-release the same nuclear energy in a more controlled manner.
It may sound simple, but in practice it took scientists and engineers decades to create powerful lasers, special optic systems, techniques for precise target fabrication and other technologies to even come close to success. So far no laboratory has managed to produce more energy in this fashion than the amount used to power the laser.

But when this ignition milestone is reached, the result could be a source of clean power with fuel reserves lasting for centuries to come. Unlike uranium, which is used in present-day nuclear power plants, deuterium and tritium, which are rare variations of hydrogen, are abundant in the oceans.

And for the generals an ICF facility gives an opportunity to find out more about how thermonuclear weapons work. Currently the US, France and Russia are signatories to the Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty, which forbids any kind of tests involving nuclear explosions.

It means the military cannot just take an old bomb and detonate it to see if it's still operational after decades of storage. A superlaser capable of performing a mini-H-bomb blast can provide the data to alleviate those professional fears.

http://rt.com/news/russia-superlaser-th ... eapon-123/


India needs to invest heavily in ICF.


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