Bharat Rakshak

Maybe. As per Swamy, Karthik PC, Tejinder Singh and some Major Hooda, relative of Haryana CM act as a pack.

I know that was not the implication here but I thought I should put in a word for the poor pandus. A large number of them might be corrupt but they're not anti-national by any stretch. I only say this because it could be construed that way and I think always pitting the Army and the Police in the public space is unhelpful and mostly not true anyway. We're all on the same side. FWIW I'd imagine the cops would have organized traffic at the request of the CO.

The report is stupid in so many ways it boggles the mind. What stopped them from simply using the units from the R-day parade and just issuing out ammunition? I wonder if the leaks are deliberately preparing ground. Are we slated for an attack in the near future?

Might be that gentleman (who rather aptly, looks like Peter Pettigrew of Harry Potter) who wants to censor the internet.

That editor should be prosecuted for defamation of the units he besmirched as well as inciting unrest in the Army/Civil against a serving CoAS. It does directly impact national security if the CoAS is being tarnished without reason.

(This seems a VERY bad phase - hope those Gulfstreams and UAVs are busy flying around the borders)

I am wondering, with the current state of affairs and status of our polity, IF a military coup did happen, how many here would support it.

No intention to start a rumor and suggest anything, just trying to understand the thought process of various people here.

There is no need for such a poll.

The Indian Army can find great support for a coup as long as it does not actually do a coup. ie. We respect them precisely for they don't do.

Even with all the muck flying around you'd be hard pressed to find any operational commanders who'll actually obey orders for a coup. You'd need an Army commander and none of them would do it. That is the long and short of it.

If the media were to truly fight for the weak(poor/victims) and target the strong(rich/powerful), then I think they would have had several fans. Infact, this is one aspect of the so-called leftist ideology that I can agree with: help the poor against the rich. But, generally, this aspect is just rhetorical. The truth is that the poor become real victims in leftist governed places(ex: USSR, China, Naxal areas,...etc). Because the leftist ideology provides a justifiable excuse(of fighting for the poor) to usurp power(absolute dictatorship). And once the power is acquired, like everybody else, the power is used to perpetuate a monopoly on the power. For this, the rich and elite are co-opted or eliminated. But the poor, they become eternal victims. They are literally treated as slaves.

As far as media is concerned, they tend to lick up and kick down. In most countries, the media is in cahoots with elite power-brokers and power-centers (internally and externally). Here again, the people are the ultimate victims because they are fed wrong/biased/insufficient information and the people's judgement gets clouded. The media is used as a tool to control the people. In a democracy, this can have seriously implications. Because if the people are not properly informed, then their judgements(votes) will be wrong which means that the elected representatives(and the newly formed Govt) would be corrupt/inefficient/imbeciles.

India media seems to have imbibed a strange derision and hatred towards majority community of India. I don't know the exact reason for this. Maybe the leftist leaning is responsible for such thinking. Maybe the majority community(the sheer numbers) are seen as a threat to the power-centers who sponsor the media. Maybe a combination of both factors. Infact, one can say that the media in India displays a strange behaviour: it has contempt for everything that is Indian(culture, product, attire, values,...whatever) and celebrates everything that is foreign.(Hakimullah Shiv may have a field day with analyzing what is the reason for such feelings of inadequacy). To me, it seems to be a relic of colonialism. This media behaviour has been slowly imbibed by the educated Indians. And from them, it is transmitted to rural Indians. In a way, it is a mental slavery and cultural slavery which is being transmitted from the very top of Indian power structure.

So, the media dislikes Advani or NaMo because(and as long as), they stand with(and for) majority community or Indian indigenous products(culture, materials, attires, ...etc). If and when, Advani or NaMo or whoever goes against majority community or India, they will be celebrated. A Roy is a prime example of this phenomenon.

In this particular case, I think the Army is not the strong party. It is the weaker party. So, the media can go against them without any fear of repercussions. On the contrary, if the media started investigating the source of the corruptions, the money-trail, demanding responsibility and accountability from the Govt(and politicians in general), ...etc; then the media would have truly gone against the strong party(and would have done a huge favor to India/people/poor).

I would NEVER support anybody in a uniform running Delhi. I doubt many people in India would want some desi Mushraff clone swaggering up and down Parliament House.

It would require a LARGE "pair" to claim with a straight face that they can manage 1 billion rancorous Indians when managing the Army of 1 odd million is a handful.

Also how is slowing down traffic on highway going to help? Mechanised infantrymen are driving Maruti 800s and cannot get off the road?

As per Dr. Subramanian Swamy some 60 seats in the last Lok Sabha elections were swung using EVMs.

If that's the case, then the coup has already happened.

Here are some of the Tweets by a person named Akhilesh Mishra

I mean no disrespect but this is not even something worth discussing about. I hope that the forum members won't take this (hopefully unintentional) bait.

ShauryaT, No need for that question. Please folks no more follow-up on that.

ramana

Interesting info not corroborated in Mathai's tell all book




Wah wah what psy-ops!
Now a Cohen baccha quotes Cohen! No need for the great master to write as he has his chelas to do the needful.
There is Latin phrase: "Lapsis Calami, Suggesto Falsi!"
Slip of the tongue and false suggestions.

So the TSP coup in 1957 prompted JLN to promote Krishna Menon the most un-Defence Minister of India.

All TSP had to do to make Chacha self-flaggelate would have been to do one more coup and JLN would have disbanded the Army.

NVS writes in NewsInsight:

Media putsch



So what made Shekhar Gupta write that hack piece? And write a confrimatory piece next day?

absolutely not

Lalmohan whats the chatter in your area?

Maroof Raza said on TIMES NOW's The Newshour debate that less than thousand troops were part of the so called movement and there are around 30,000 personnel stationed in Delhi at any given time and coups are rarely carried out by mechanised infantry.

Shekhar Gupta has discredited himself by putting such a ridiculous story on his front page. He is also the anchor person of NDTV's Walk The Talk program.

a few years ago, i recall meeting someone quite high up in the american civil-military set up, who remarked to me - almost incredulously - 'man your indian army sure does believe in democracy and staying in the barracks!'

ramana - zero chat i am aware of, like i said, this story is not getting any airtime

Arun, The real question is why did Shekhar Gupta do this? Who gave him the backing to publish the rot? What made him do this?

Thanks LM.

He is corrupt and he serves the corrupted. Who they are specifically will sooner or later come out into the open as well. This gov will not survive for long.

Ramana sir,

I am checking how the entire English media covered this story.

Both the shows on NDTV approached the whole matter by concentrating on the red herring - Civil military relations.

The best so far has been the discussion on Times Now - the panelists have debunked that story by proving that something like this is operationally not feasible. To support this point the former army commander says - there are six independent army commands in India and the Chief can't bypass the army commanders to order troop movements. (I'm yet to watch Rajdeep Sardesai's show)

Debate: Scoop story flawed?-1
Debate: Scoop story flawed?-2
Debate: Scoop story flawed?-3

Some panelists hint that there is a concerted effort by a group (possibly made of arms lobbies, bureaucrats and politicians) to discredit the Chief. They do not like him since he is cracking down on the corruption which is sadly this group's way of life. The only mistake this time was they went overboard and miscalculated how much nonsense the people of India are willing to buy.

So some good out of this is there are checks and balances in the system besides the military is not interested which is the best CBM.
Arun, Keep with it. Need ot get to bottom of why SG printed this calumny.

Also wonder why the IB was not set out to find out the real story of this fake coup?
Or they might be embarrassed of its origins?

Few things to note about the events outside India at this time.
The pressure on Pakistan and the bounty on Hafiz Saeed has put the PA on alert. To make sure that India is preoccupied and an army which is under scanner for corruption suits the power center since this will give Indian an excuse that it is not watching Pakistan.

China is also slowly moving up its defense readiness in the border areas and may make the first move. Indian political - occupation and controversy over civil mil relations are good to keep other countries relaxed. Induction of the SSN today may have alerted the panda and its preparedness.

Because apparently they were planning a coup while staying on their tank transporters. Shekhar Gupta probably thinks they are force multipliers.

I have to say props to AKA for rubbishing the story in such strong terms. Either it's blind panic on the part of the corrupt or morale is deliberately being lowered for some other purpose.

Over the past decade, Shekhar Gupta seems to have no raisin dieter other than to warm RAPE balls by breathing gently on it. Earlier it was his "we will take care of BJP" asinine comment to RAPEs and now this..... as if he is oblivious of India being a democracy with hard fought elections.

What has he got against Indian democracy that he feels to do this? He want to convince his omlette-providers that we are equal onleee?

I hope this has strong negatives for Shekhar Gupta, more than just being the 'laughing stock'. He was also the primary 'Musharraff Bhakt' at the Agra summit.

As suspected here few years ago ,the assault on the national security from within has started. I am afraid , its going to get ulglier unless guilty behind the whole drama are exposed and tried in court of law as well in public. This bizarre episode and the coincident with the shutting up of Anti nuclear power Missionaries in Tamilnadu and the arrival of Akula is indeed strange. As they say follow the money trail, national security now demands exposing this corrupt lobby and its foreign masters and the money involved in it .
If Hazzam Sethi thinks that Poaqs can now squeeze concessions from MMS , he might as well buy the bridge i am selling on Astroid 72p .The whole tamasha might end up plus by strengthing of the instituons.

..

Ramana,a long post unfortunately was lost due to system failure.I'll repost the basics.Ckd out some of it with sources inside the force.

Here is a maverick viewpoint,perhaps not so maverick after all and you have put superbly the finger on the spot.
Who benefits? That is the question....

Gen.VKS,the "Saint",etc. are mere pawns on the chessboard.The pieces think that they are making their own moves,but the moves have already been anticipated and programmed and they are playing true to form.The real target is "the Saint".He is the chief stumbling block for vested interests.His "statuesque" image is because like a statue,he never moves on anything major. Gen.VKS is a "ship that passes in the night".He is a transitory phenomenon.He is of nuisance value.His term in any case has been terminated,but he is also playing his unwitting part.The media too are being manipulated,with exclusive scoops being thrown to them from inside sources ,some of them do not realise how they are all pieces on the board being manipulated.

For quite some time now,a few years in fact,the grouse in Delhi has been the slow decision of the "Saint". $80 billion worth of acquisitions is expected within the next 5 years (KPMG).A real boom time for global defence manufacturers.However,the UPA-2 regime is rapidly running out of steam and the deals must be clinched asap.Removing "the Saint" without good reason is going to be veryt difficult,given his clean character.A raging controversy and scam has to be found.There is already one controversy that will terminate the chief's tenure,his DOB error.It is put into play and "the Saint" has fallen for the babu bait.The "civil vs military" mindset,"politicos must be the bosses" argument is trotted out,and Gen.VKS true to form fights back controversially for a COAS using the media-perfect! The cat is out of the bag,the country now knows that the IA (Gen.VKS) and the MOD (the Saint) are at war.The media regales us with names of other IA suspect senior officers in the "line of succession",reputations are trashed, giving the impression that there is war within the IA too.

But this is only the appetiser.Next comes the "entree".The alleged Tatra bribe offer that rocks the nation.Here the pieces moved on the board are an arms manufacturer-Indian owned,and a PSU.The quiet role of PSU price padding becomes universally known.This is worse than foreign manufacturers where we drive a hard bargain.We are now informed that the PSUs are the main route for kickbacks.One can just imagine what is happening in the other defence PSUs! No longer is the issue a DOB spat,or a succession spat,but a series of potential major scams like Bofors.But this is not the end of the banquet,wait for the main course.

The main course of the plot is the good general's secret letter to the PM,which is tradition for service chiefs,who all moan about the state of their service.The timing is superb,as if it was done by the chief in an act of revenge,on the eve of the BRICS summit when the Chinese "Dr.Hu" will delight in the revelations.Suddenly we are aghast at the state of affairs (as if we didn't know about it all along).Uproar in the house.Cries of "sack the general" from all parties. No ammo to fight with,tanks unreliable,no artillery,the PLA can come down the Himalayan slopes tomorrow and it will be '62 deja vu ! Find the culprit.Who is to blame? Not the good chief,he has been in the saddle only for two years and it takes time to re-equip,at least 3-4 years.Therefore,the villain of the piece is the "Saint".He has done nothing for 6 years while at the helm of defence.He has been an abject failure.He couldn't keep the DOB issue within the "family",he allowed it to become public knowledge,kept quiet about Tatra and now stories about his failure to book the guilty in scandals when CM and Min for civil Supplies (sugar scam) are trotted out staining his dhoti.

What must be done? Typical Congress firefighting.One can't sack the chief,he will become a martyr and enrage the IA.,sacking Adm.Bhagwat was much easier as the IN doesn't have sufficient troops on land for any mischief making unlike the IA.Sack the "Saint"? The Congress dissident hounds start their usual background baying for his scalp.He is a quitter,but will he? Doubtful. Therefore embarass him to the maximum,put a shaft up the "Saint's " backside,and force him to take quick decisions on a fast track basis.He starts obeying and uses the words "streamline" to the IA regarding trials and decision making.The green light goes on,decisions will be forthcoming in double-quick time,no one can now fault the govt. for decisions as the chief's letter revealed all and the GOI/PMO is coming to the rescue!

"Who benefits ?" ,and are now going to laugh all the way to the bank? ....The foreign mainly US and western arms dealers and manufacturers.Here is why.

"Indian Bloom",is one heading in a def.mag."Industry fights for a piece of the growing Indian defence pie".
KPMG study."$80B" to be spent in 5 years time.Only two years left for decision-making.Hurdles though.Some details:

* Boeing expects to do "$32B" business in the next decade."Not just sales ,but partnerships too",Boeing overseas VP.

*IAF to have 60 sqds (1000 aircraft) by 2030.

*Indian Def. budget up ($33.3B")

*New rules,PSUs and private players can form JVs with foreign firms,apart from the formation of "consortia" and pub-pvt partnerships,policy includes provisions for "the exit of state-run defence companies from deals" !!!

Now we understand why the Tatra scam has been exposed.It is a PSU.The owner is an Indian.The principal a former east-bloc manufacturer.No tears shed if Tatra is taken down,it won't affect western manufacturers and open huge opportunities for them! Expose Tatra first then step by step irregularities in other PSUs."Why buy from PSUs wares with padded prices when it costs far less if made abroad ? Bring in pvt. players to replace PSUs,they will be more efficient and less costly".Allow JVs with foreign firms and increase the level of FDI.

* "Not suprisingly",Boeing,Lockheed Martin,and EF have set up Indian operations,including partnerships with pvt. players.30% offsets.

*Robust growth also attracting foreign "second-level" players and leading desi companies like...the Hinduja Group,poised to enter the def, sector to manufacture..."guns,rockets,missile artillery systems"! Ashk Ley. is to establish a JV with Brit. Chemring,munitions and EW major.Also with S.African Paramount Group (anti-mine vehicles).

* 250 Arjuns and 1650 T-90s by 2020,114 LCHs,400 Light helos,150+ ALHs,F-INSAS (future infantry soldier as a system,1st phase alone worth $5B),66,000 advanced assault rifles,plus lcocal manufacturing to equip 800,000 troops,tripod mounted 12.7mm HMGs .IA's mil. mod program of upgrading firepower ( to counter China with more divisions,etc ) $12B.More Agnis,A-5 ICBM etc.

Apart from making massive moolah from the nation's defence plans,another sinister interest is at work.The vested interest want to protect Pak from any Indian adventurism.Therefore,against Pak,we should be incapable of a decisive mil. victory due to eqpt. shortfalls.The thrust should be to counter China.China too does Pak a favour by sabre rattling and India in knee-jerk fashion now plans to spend tens of billions to counter China,while we are being seduced by Pak about "peace",turning our attention away from Af-Pak,where Pak and its backers plan to control Afghanistan.The master-manipulators have been playing this war game for a long time.The pieces on the board are moving very rapidly as time is running out for the UPA-2 "game".We must now wait and see what turns up for for dessert!

PS:The mood in the IA is that Gen.VKS should not suffer Adm.Bhagwat's fate.He is clean,so too is his designated successor (fine soldier) say officers who have served with both.

Just one PSU horror story. LIke Ripley's "Believe it or Not ?" Take your pick.

Deputed IA offr. to major PSU discovers info being regularly sent to Pak. "Mole" in outfit,writes to the boss.Boss calls back ,"mind your own business"! Offr. furious, further investigates and finds PSU R&D product secretly offloaded to pvt. player,while pretending that R&D on product still going on. Pvt.player offers Govt. same (PSU developed) product at huge price.Same bought! When offr. reveals/threatens to reveal all,is sacked!

Philip now I got your attention. How about this? Its 2G related. They sense that internal INC guys are pushing for a re-imaging and hence leaked this 'coup' story to scare them off! After UP loss there is a push for remake.

I really wish we never had these weapon tenders and specially this MMRCA.

Either this whole situation is going to distroy delicate thread of our democracy or we will emerge strong as a bull.

How easily a nation can be manipulated by just playing it's so called free media.

There is not even a charge that a coup was attempted, only that someone jumped at a cat's shadow, and army must be blamed for it, knowing full well that there is no chance of power flowing through the barrel of the gun. Schizophrenia?

Regarding Gen K Sundarji there were some rumours (after all the messes he cleaned up for the govt of the day) which again turned out to be rumours.

There were similar rumours between Indira ji and SAM Manekshaw, also Cariappa.

The closest India has come to an undemocratic setup is during Emergency.

Josy Joseph wonders

LINK



The fact that police were activated shows PC's hand.

JJ is diverting attention towards IA to show its broken.

One thing in the VKS saga is the continuing finger pointing towards MI doing this, doing that. Previously the National Insecurity Adviser implicated MI elements into saffron terror hangama.

So there is an agenda to drag that branch into some mess or the other.

Shekhar Gupta on NDTV on his story

I must say Shekhar Gupta has NEVER fumbled so much for words. There is something very fishy in this whole affair. Shame on him and IE.

Lt. Gen. H.S. Panag (R) on twitter:
=> Never heard of permission to be taken 4 routine Trg movement of Army units.I was at Hissar as GOC.Never asked anyone.1/2
=> 2/2 Only Banana Republics doubt their AFs.
=> Night of Jan 16th-There was similar insinuation when Sam was Chief!Sam's quip,"Routine movement!Rest is imagination of small minds!"

Fresh PIL against IAC-in-waiting

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_fr ... ng_1671721