Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 13 Mar 2012 21:48

Bade
Dont know but I think it makes sense to have alternate plans . Do not expect refunds to materialise. If alternate airline tickets are given, grab and run. Heard KF employees did not report to work ( salary not paid) and this led to cancellation of some flights. what I have been noticing is that on prime routes , rates have shot up some 60%.

Lesson: Book early. A drop in 30% capacity on domestic prime routes leading to atrocious prices

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 14 Mar 2012 07:48

Neela, thanks for the tip on potential increase in domestic fares in India if KF winds down. I know KF all too well, they still owe me $150 or so from a trip few years ago.

But the difference in ticket price was $300 each with this combo. So it added up to a cool savings of $900 alone. Hard to let that go, so did bite with some reluctance. I am assuming that segment alone which uses KF will not cost me more than $150 one-way for each ticket if I had to buy it again separately. So still worth it I thought when I purchased them. I bought it on Vayama and they seem to have issued the ticket as Qatar Air one, though I am using Qatar only for one segment to India on inward journey. Rest is random match of United+Brussels Air. Normally I do not go for such deals, but I am getting more adventurous as the purse string is getting tighter for these yearly jaunts.

Since the ticket was issued as a Qatar Airways ticket (which was a surprise to me) as I did not see it till reservations were confirmed online, I am hoping the Qatar folks in Kochi will find a solution. I know I am being very optimistic

which usually is not in my nature when dealing with Airlines.

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 14 Mar 2012 10:26

Bade,

KF makes me sick. THey are in serious trouble and they cannot honour their promises to big companies all over the world. Yet, their listings come on sites like makemytrip.com etc. This looks like a ruse to make people buy tickets even when the chances of any given flight from KF runs a very very high risk of not taking off.
That fellow Mallya is running rough shod over Indian customers. His reach runs deep into aviation ministry!

gunjur · Post by **gunjur** » 14 Mar 2012 17:15

Boeing to pay 500mn to Air India

Boeing Co has agreed to pay little over $500 million as compensation to state-run carrier Air India for delayed aircraft delivery.

Deliveries on the national carrier's 2005 order for as many as 50 long-range Boeing jets worth about $6 billion has been delayed by more than 3 years.

Last month a source had told a news agency that Air India was seeking nearly $1 billion from Boeing to compensate for the delays.

GOI must drive a big pressure campaign to extract as much as possible from boeing.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 14 Mar 2012 23:45

Russia hopes to have 10 pct of India's market of airliners by 2030

The president of Russia’s United Aircraft Corporation (OAC), Mikhail Pogosyan, said in an interview with the Indian newspaper Hindu, “We are planning to sell in India about 100 passenger aircraft by 2030, which will account for 10 percent of the Indian market of airliners in the 60 to 220-seat segment.” According to Pogosyan, “the first contracts may be signed as early as next year.”

He believes that “the India Aviation 2012 show, which opened in Hyderabad on Wednesday, will mark the beginning of a marketing campaign to sell Russian-built airliners in India and South Asian markets.”

In Hyderabad, the corporation will present its airliner Sukhoi Superjet-100 and a full-scale prototype of a cockpit and compartment of a new MS-21 aircraft, currently in the development phase. “We are interested in inviting Indian companies to take part in the MS-21 programme,” Pogosyan said.

“The unprecedented scope of Russian-Indian cooperation in military aviation has created the scientific and engineering basis for undertaking joint projects in civil aviation,” he added.

“Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) and the Sukhoi Design Bureau have started work on the preliminary design of the fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA), the Indian variant of Russia’s Perspective Multi-role Fighter (PMF)," the UAC chief said.

“We’re working as one team. Indian specialists are in Moscow, while a Russian team is in Bangalore.”

Pogosyan also said Russia and India plan to sign by July a preliminary design contract for the Multirole Transport Aircraft (MTA), which the two countries will jointly build for their air forces.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 15 Mar 2012 13:48

India needs a common vision for aviation : IATA

FICCI-KPMG 8-point action agenda to make India a global aviation hub

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 16 Mar 2012 20:53

Tatas, AugustaWestland to set up helicopter assembly line near Hyderabad.

Indian Rotorcraft, a joint venture company of Tata Sons and AgustaWestland, a Finmeccanica company, will assemble, customise and flight-test new helicopters at a facility in Hyderabad for the global market.

The joint venture will initially start producing the 8-seat AW119Ke light helicopter, with production commencing from mid-2013.

Indian Rotorcraft has announced that the ground breaking ceremony was held at Hyderabad’s Rajiv Gandhi International Airport, marking the start of construction of a new helicopter production facility.

The ceremony was performed in the presence of Mr Ratan N Tata, Chairman, Tata Sons, Mr. Bruno Spagnolini, CEO, AgustaWestland and other dignitaries.

In a statement, Mr Ratan Tata said: “The project is integral to our plans in the aerospace sector and we look forward to an enduring and successful partnership with AgustaWestland for fostering the growth of the Indian aerospace sector.”

Mr Bruno Spagnolini, CEO of AgustaWestland, said, “Our joint venture with Tata Sons will play an important role in the development of the Indian aerospace industry. Not only will this new facility be able to build helicopters for the Indian market but it will supply helicopters to AgustaWestland customers around the world.”

The facility is being built on a 10-acre site adjacent to the Rajiv Gandhi International Airport, Hyderabad, and include a 9,000 sq.m. building incorporating a main assembly building, flight hangar, office accommodation and outside several helicopter landing pads.

The facility will be capable of producing up to 30 helicopters per year and is designed to be further developed for other helicopter types, right up to the 16-ton AW101.

AgustaWestland has its operations in Italy, the UK, Poland and the US, with a global presence through its network of industrial partners.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 18 Mar 2012 22:08

India needs 1,043 aircraft over next 20 years: Airbus

Airbus forecasts that India will need 1,043 new aircraft over the next 20 years.

Despite the current climate in India's aviation industry, the airframer was optimistic about the outlook.

These 1,020 passenger and 23 freighter aircraft are valued at $145 billion, said Airbus head of marketing for India Joost Van Der Heijden at a press conference at the India Aviation air show.

Of the 1020 passenger aircraft, 160 will replace retiring aircraft, while the remaining will cater to the strong demand growth expected in India. Airbus expects 646 aircraft to be single aisle, 308 to be twin aisle and the remaining 66 to be very-large aircraft such as the Airbus A380.

"Globally, we target 50% of the market. In India, we hope to have a very strong position as well," said Van Der Heijden when asked how many of the 1,043 new aircraft Airbus expects to supply.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 20 Mar 2012 14:47

What has happened to B'lore Airport?

Yesterday, it felt as if I landed in the middle of a flea market.

The old airport even though small and SDRE looked a lot cleaner IMHO.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Mar 2012 15:06

yep - its gone to the dogs in terms of order, discipline, rule of law, control of touts .... no different from majestic bus stand or blr central apron.

the karnataka govt itself is in comatose state with Yeddy playing resort politics to get his seat back.

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 20 Mar 2012 15:14

It's even more apparent if you transit to Bangalore through T3. It was much better 2-3 years ago.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 20 Mar 2012 16:19

>>majestic bus stand

That is exactly how I described the "airport" to my mother.

of course the traffic enroute home was terrible to say the least, but that was kind of expected.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 21 Mar 2012 15:12

Eurocopter sells three corporate helicopters in India

Eurocopter has signed deals in India for three helicopters configured for executive transport.

G. R. Constructions purchased a single AS350 B3e, said Eurocopter. This will be the Indian company's second AS350.

The company also signed two deals with undisclosed customers. One ordered an EC135 and the other an EC155.

"Business aviation is one of the key segments that is driving the growth of the helicopter market in India," said Eurocopter India chief executive Xavier Hay.

"These bookings mark a good start to the year. We will continue to work on developing other segments as well, such as emergency medical services, law enforcement, utility and aerial work," Hay added.

The deals were officially closed at the India Aviation 2012 show, which was held on 14-18 March, in Hyderabad.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 22 Mar 2012 12:47

Interesting bit of co-operation between Bombardier and Comac on Civil Aircraft Development

Common cockpit to feature in CSeries-C919 co-operation

Bombardier is to co-operate with Chinese airframer Comac on four programmes centred on exploiting commonality between its CSeries twinjet and the C919.

The initial programmes include exploring common aspects of crew interfaces in the cockpits of the two aircraft.

Bombardier says the other projects will focus on the electrical systems of the jets, the development of aluminium-lithium materials standards, and customer services.

The definitive agreement will deepen the collaboration between the two airframers established a year ago.

All four projects will be completed over the next year, says Bombardier, adding that the effort "demonstrates the complementary nature" of the CSeries and C919 programmes.

"Both parties will continue exploring other possibilities for co-operation with regards to aircraft program commonalities, joint procurement, synergies in development and customer services, as well as collaboration on Bombardier and Comac programs," it says.

The agreement aims to "maximise both parties' cost savings", states Bombardier chief Pierre Beaudoin.

Comac chairman Jin Zhuanglong adds that the tie-up will enhance the competitiveness of each aircraft.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 27 Mar 2012 15:00

It is rare but not unusual for an airline CEO to fly another airline. CEOs may do so for convenience (urgent meetings, for instance) or to experience the in-flight service of a competitor. But if you are Kingfisher Airlines CEO such travel choices do raise eyebrows given the current problems in the airline. Last Sunday, Kingfisher CEO Sanjay Aggarwal flew from Mumbai to Goa on SpiceJet (of which he was CEO till recently) in afternoon even though Kingfisher has a flight to Goa 50 minutes later. He returned to Mumbai the same night on an Air India flight. The airline spokesperson says the CEO’s airline choice had nothing to do with the crisis in the airline but the timing of his meeting. But Kingfisher staff find that reason hard to believe. Travelling by another airline ensures that the trip remains hush hush. About a month ago, Aggarwal was mobbed by ground staff at Delhi airport demanding salaries. On flights, too, cabin crew have made the same pleas. We do not know why Aggarwal made that travel choice on Sunday but he would have surely had quieter flights to and from Goa.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 29 Mar 2012 20:35

'Mallya may sell brewery stake to Heineken'

They added that Mallya has the option of
selling a stake in United Breweries Ltd (UB) to ease his financial woes, and Heineken would be a keen buyer to gain control of India's biggest brewer and maker of Kingfisher beer.

Jayram · Post by **Jayram** » 02 Apr 2012 23:44

Surprising appearance last week at an out of the way airport in Sacramento CA - not the main airport but an executive one..
Not sure if it connected to all the turmoil in KF these days..

Surprising enough for me to pause and take this picture... It may have been there for some time and it may still be there or it might be gone by now.. But KF does not fly to US hence the double take. Maybe being sold..

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 03 Apr 2012 10:10

^^
Or perhaps being returned to the leasing company.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Apr 2012 10:39

what is the plane , which route was it used? I thought KF had ATR72 and A321 only?

Mallya sir has family in CA, could it be his private jet?

Manas · Post by **Manas** » 03 Apr 2012 10:45

That is a Boeing 727, it is Mr. Mallya's private jet. Not connected to the Airline he runs (even though the livery is the same).

manish · Post by **manish** » 03 Apr 2012 11:38

That's correct. IIRC he also has an A319 (?) for personal use.

Sridhar K · Post by **Sridhar K** » 03 Apr 2012 21:22

On BIAL, initial reviews on this forum mentioned that is undersized and will saturate pretty soon. For the domestic terminal, the waiting area near the gates are very small similar. There are 50 odd seats near each gate considering that each domestic aircraft carry 120 passengers and there are usually at least two planes using the same gate during peak hours. The domestic terminal having 10 gates has 3 toilets with 3 western closets each. Very bad for a new green field airport. Even the Mumbai domestic terminal is also undersized and it is not surprising that they are built and operated by GVK

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Apr 2012 22:15

the pvt contractors seem to be willing to get away by doing the bare minimum.

the GOI needs to impose some minimum norms countrywide both on AAI and pvt airports.
- if the passenger peak load is X / hr / gate - what is number of seats, counters, toilets , open sq ft per pax needed.

on their own these contractors will use least cost approach. they will wave some shiny CGs and brochures from HOK and other foreign shops to hoodwink ministers. VIP lounge will be well kept to make ministers happy with best looking ground staff.

BIAL is only the most visible example of being a kanjoos. when HIAL and T3 hit the peak numbers perhaps skeletons will emerge there too. in BIAL case, it was a skeletal place from day1.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 04 Apr 2012 08:59

We should have stake in these air sector: Exclusive 'Sneak Peek' at Doha's new airport with Qatar Airways CEO

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/239 ... uring.html

Rs.18,000-crore Air India restructuring plan approved

Mumbai, April 3, 2012, (IANS) :
The long-awaited Rs.18,000 crore financial restructuring plan for cash-strapped Air India has finally been approved by a consortium of 19 banks led by State Bank of India, an official said here Tuesday.
The plan includes a debt restructuring of Rs.18,000 crore by the banks and a committed equity infusion by the government, the official said in a statement here.
The high-cost working capital debt of the national carrier stands at Rs.22,000 crore, of which the banks will restructure Rs.18,000 crore.

From this (Rs.18,000 crore), Rs.10,500 crore will be converted into long-term debt with a repayment period of 10-15 years.

The remaining Rs.7,400 croe will be repaid to banks through a government-guaranteed bond issue.

The proposed restructuring - which will now go for cabinet approval - will help AI reduce its interest outlay substantially.

As part of the airline's restructuring plans, the government had announced an infusion of Rs.4,000 crore during the current fiscal, raising the airlines' equity base to Rs.7,345 crore, in the union budget for 2012-13.

Anurag · Post by **Anurag** » 06 Apr 2012 00:27

Anyone know of updates on the Pakyong Airport that was scheduled to be commissioned in the first quarter of 2012. I haven't found any news items reporting on it. Perhaps it's delayed again!

Added later...

Never mind, just found out it's scheduled for June 2012, not the first quarter. Can't wait for this one!

Marut · Post by **Marut** » 08 Apr 2012 12:22

Sridhar K wrote:On BIAL, initial reviews on this forum mentioned that is undersized and will saturate pretty soon. For the domestic terminal, the waiting area near the gates are very small similar. There are 50 odd seats near each gate considering that each domestic aircraft carry 120 passengers and there are usually at least two planes using the same gate during peak hours. The domestic terminal having 10 gates has 3 toilets with 3 western closets each. Very bad for a new green field airport. Even the Mumbai domestic terminal is also undersized and it is not surprising that they are built and operated by GVK

BIAL was designed & executed by a consortium of Zurich Airport, Siemens & L&T. It has always been a subject of immense scrutiny for their planning, design & construction standards (specifically, their lack thereof!). The current woes are mainly the result of cutting corners and skimping while on the drawing board itself. GVK does not have much freedom to rectify this. The expansion currently underway and the second terminal which should follow will hopefully alleviate a lot of the initial drawbacks. But one has to remember, it's like putting a whole lot of bandages to all over the body rather than a comprehensive overhaul.

Mumbai is a different kettle of fish. When the PPP agreement was signed, GVK had to develop the existing terminals to the best possible levels while they went ahead with the new terminal building. So all the improvements and changes being done in Terminal 1 will be ultimately demolished. Maybe 1C will survive, but not sure. It may become the domestic hub, while airlines with international+domestic will shift to T2 integrated terminal building.

of the two - GMR & GVK, the latter seem to be more focused on quality & passenger comfort and it shows.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 08 Apr 2012 12:28

Marut wrote:
Sridhar K wrote:On BIAL, initial reviews on this forum mentioned that is undersized and will saturate pretty soon. For the domestic terminal, the waiting area near the gates are very small similar. There are 50 odd seats near each gate considering that each domestic aircraft carry 120 passengers and there are usually at least two planes using the same gate during peak hours. The domestic terminal having 10 gates has 3 toilets with 3 western closets each. Very bad for a new green field airport. Even the Mumbai domestic terminal is also undersized and it is not surprising that they are built and operated by GVK

BIAL was designed & executed by a consortium of Zurich Airport, Siemens & L&T. It has always been a subject of immense scrutiny for their planning, design & construction standards (specifically, their lack thereof!). The current woes are mainly the result of cutting corners and skimping while on the drawing board itself. GVK does not have much freedom to rectify this. The expansion currently underway and the second terminal which should follow will hopefully alleviate a lot of the initial drawbacks. But one has to remember, it's like putting a whole lot of bandages to all over the body rather than a comprehensive overhaul.

Mumbai is a different kettle of fish. When the PPP agreement was signed, GVK had to develop the existing terminals to the best possible levels while they went ahead with the new terminal building. So all the improvements and changes being done in Terminal 1 will be ultimately demolished. Maybe 1C will survive, but not sure. It may become the domestic hub, while airlines with international+domestic will shift to T2 integrated terminal building.

of the two - GMR & GVK, the latter seem to be more focused on quality & passenger comfort and it shows.

It is expected that low cost airlines may move into terminal 1

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 08 Apr 2012 12:31

Jayram wrote:
Surprising appearance last week at an out of the way airport in Sacramento CA - not the main airport but an executive one..
Not sure if it connected to all the turmoil in KF these days..

Surprising enough for me to pause and take this picture... It may have been there for some time and it may still be there or it might be gone by now.. But KF does not fly to US hence the double take. Maybe being sold..

This is one of uncle mallaya's personal aircraft, the older one.

His family lives in california, second wife + two daughters.

Flight and maintenence crews for his newer AB 319 usually comes from Kingfisher airlines. Strained relationship with employees and pilots may have left him stranded as far as the AB is concerned.

He also maintains smaller private aircraft there that he pilots himself.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 09 Apr 2012 19:42

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 595140.cms

NEW DELHI: India experienced the second strongest domestic air traffic growth in the world after Brazil, but the high growth hid the financial weakness facing the Indian carriers, global airline body IATA has said

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 10 Apr 2012 17:24

Govt to take decision on FDI in aviation this week

The above title should read :

To help Mallya and Praful Patel government is allowing FDI in airlines but we are going to pretend as though this has nothing to do with Kingfisher. And we will pretend to make a decision one week from now
.

Both link to the same article.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 11 Apr 2012 22:35

Is Reliance Industries closing in on Kingfisher Airlines?

The Mukesh Ambani-owned Reliance Industries may be close to buying the ailing Kingfisher Airlines, according to market sources.

The sources say that as part of the deal, Reliance would also get Mangalore Chemicals and Fertilizers Ltd, in which the UB group has a 30.44 per cent stake. When contacted, a Reliance official said they were unaware of any such development, while Kingfisher's spokesperson was not available for comment.

A chance meeting between Mr Mukesh Ambani, whose wife owns the Mumbai Indians IPL franchisee, and Mr Vijay Mallya, who owns the Royal Challengers Bangalore team, at an IPL match a few days back has led to intense speculation that a deal was imminent.

Kingfisher Airlines, whose operations have been severely curtailed, has an accumulated loss and debt of nearly Rs 7,500 crore. It is now operating only a fourth of its services and has only a fifth of its fleet.

According to exchanges, a series of block deals was put through in Kingfisher last week.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 12 Apr 2012 09:54

among the domestic players I think only RIL and Sahara have the war chest to bail out KF. Tatas is a dark horse as I dont imagine they are as cash rich.
foreign players like Etihad / Qatar or Emirates who are rolling in money could also pick up KF to make a strong entry into the domestic market.

but with the high cost of opex in india I dont know how new management will help turn it around.....they might have to cancel it as a full service airline and go to bare bones like IndoGo....cut the bling and focus on the meat.

tejas · Post by **tejas** » 12 Apr 2012 21:17

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/busi ... 639271.cms

Absolutely mind boggling. This is a govt which has to cut defense spending this year due to money problems and yet can flush Rs. 30,000 crore down the toilet on an airline no one wants to fly on. Why is the GOI in the airline business

Bob V · Post by **Bob V** » 12 Apr 2012 23:03

http://in.news.yahoo.com/trainer-choppe ... lding.html

The Schweizer 300 from HAL flight school.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 12 Apr 2012 23:11

The Lucky Tu-154

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 13 Apr 2012 06:29

Bob V wrote:http://in.news.yahoo.com/trainer-choppe ... lding.html

The Schweizer 300 from HAL flight school.

VT-HAV, Schweizer 269C, Date of registration: 09/04/2010

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 13 Apr 2012 08:25

Austin wrote:The Lucky Tu-154

They have shown a black box (made in USSR) which is very old and rickety and seems to be oozing some gooey stuff. The caption says it is the one responsible. How can a black box be responsible? Or is it a battery of some kind. Whats that stuff ozzing out anyway?

Bob V · Post by **Bob V** » 13 Apr 2012 20:33

PratikDas wrote:
Bob V wrote:http://in.news.yahoo.com/trainer-choppe ... lding.html

The Schweizer 300 from HAL flight school.
VT-HAV, Schweizer 269C, Date of registration: 09/04/2010

Model 269 is traded as the 300.

gunjur · Post by **gunjur** » 16 Apr 2012 12:39

Jet airways seeks govt help to secure 1000 cr loans

In January, Jet posted its fourth straight quarterly loss, as it struggled with high fuel costs and low fares

All but one of India’s six main airlines are loss-making, with state-run Air India on government life-support. Jet is yet to pay January salaries to employees, the report said.

Hopefully FDI will help these cos get the much needed cash.

Abhijeet · Post by **Abhijeet** » 16 Apr 2012 14:02

All the AI money would be far, far better spent giving the private airlines a lifeline while they try to find additional investment. With the high expected CAGR in Indian aviation over the next 20 years, there will be deep pocketed investors who can afford to invest for the long term.

Private Indian airlines provide a world class product at relatively affordable prices despite the dice being loaded against them -- they deserve better than to be thrown to the dogs during hard times. The airline industry has enough barriers to entry that it's going to be a long time before a completely new airline comes up if KF or Jet folds.

All airlines should immediately switch to whatever the "Indigo model" is. If it means selling a chicken tikka sandwich for Rs.200 on board, so be it -- free food on short domestic flights is a needless luxury anyway.