Bharat Rakshak

Bose babumoshai

Doesn't the same hold true for Hong Kong as well? Or is it OK for you to visit HK on a Chinese business visa...

I think you don't need a visa for HK for upto 2 weeks stay unless you are a Paki.

Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and Sri Lankan citizens also need a transit visa for HK airport, in addition to a visit visa requirement. Indian citizens require neither of those. I ran into an SL guy there who was complaining about it when I told him I just came back from a quick trip to the city on a short layover.

How about Mainland Chinese folks? Can they visit HK as and when they please?

^^^I would presume so. Would be strange if they couldn't.

Nope. chinease people cant just enter HK, they need at least a passport, and I think a permit.

Name one major country which recognize Taiwan is a country. Not even India. I guess you can vote a government that will next time.

Jhujar-bhai, you also have to give hints how to copy that and reproduce cheap versions.

It's still a country with its own independent government, currency, foreign affairs and defence. Unlike Tibet, it is not even a government in exile because it is not hosted by another country - they run their territory.

Furthermore, your contention is not quite accurate: India does not recognize the ROC's claim over the mainland. It de-recognized ROC and instead recognizes PRC as the sole 'China'. However, it also recognizes Taiwan as a separate de facto nation of its own (without recognizing its claim to the mainland) - there exists both a Taiwan embassy in New Delhi as well as a consulate in Bombay, and an Indian consular office in Taipei.

Taiwan Embassy in India
N-88, Panchsheel Park
New Delhi

Taiwan General Consulate in Mumbai, India
9th Floor, Hoechst House, 193 Backbay Reclamation
Nariman Point
Mumbai

Indian Representative Office in Taipei, Taiwan
Room 2010, 333 Keelung Road., Sec. 1
Taipei

You want to belabor the point of de facto vs de jure recognition ? By all means, do. It's the only fig leaf you have. Every country that maintains consular relationships with Taiwan essentially mocks China. The only ones who follow a proper One China policy are those who do not maintain any consular ties with Taiwan. Everyone else (including India) just says 'yes, yes, One China onlee' from one side of the mouth, while talking to Taiwan from the other side of the mouth, if you get my drift.

From my perspective it is not even rhetorical - if I wanted to visit PRC, I get a PRC visa. If I wanted to visit Taiwan, I get a Taiwan visa. Actually, Indians with professional visas or permanent residencies from a bunch of western nations can enter Taiwan visa-free; that applies to me as well.

hmm...strange question since for visiting Taiwan one needs to get a Taiwanese visa and not a PRC visa. And there used to be a Taiwanese embassy quite close to my home in New Delhi, probably still is there. I dont think 'non-nations' or entities which are not nations have proper embassies with consular services in other countries.

I once asked a man from Taiwan whether he was from China. He got offended.

^^^I did that to a Paki once who told me he was from Kashmir and I replied, "oh! So you are a fellow Indian" Poor Paki's face looked like Groper was fiddling with his testimonials.

Every Taiwanese I know has made it a point to politely ask me to refer to them as Taiwanese and not Chinese. Sample size of about a dozen people in all.

I'll keep this in mind

Marten, I don't understand why you were offended.

I think it's the one of the wonderful material for the Chinese to understand India and for the Indians to unsterstand how Chinese view India.
Some amazing facts about the thread. It has a hit rate of over ten millions with 8000+ replies up to now. It has also been reproduced to various forums and other websites.
It only takes four days for this happening. It seems that the ordinary Chinese's interest (or curiosity) in India is growing.

The Chinese people should be proud of the fact that it is doing as well as it has despite being a communist dunghole. But it should be less proud that it is communist. Because without a shadow of a doubt, all communist states were failed ones from the USSR to Romania to North Korea.

Without communism, you chinis should be at where Taiwan, Japan and South Korea is today. But you are not, you are many many times poorer per capita.

Conversely, India should be more confident of the fact that the wealthiest nations on earth are democracies. Instead, while we speak of democracy as being great for freedoms of speech, association and other higher aspirations onlee, we refuse to acknowledge that it is also the most powerful creator of material wealth on earth.

As a democracy India should be already be where Taiwan, Japan and South Korea is today. We are rightly proud of democracy but we should be less proud of how we we've failed to use this advantage.

If China remains communist, and I hope it does, it will eventually collapse. If it democratizes in the future, it will take a lead that no one else can ever overcome as a Japan times 10 or a Hong Kong times 100.

But my bet is that it will remain communist and eventually crumble under its own weight and contradiction -- at which point, it will be rebuilt by the US in its own image and Panda will remain as an American lapdog like South Korea or Japan forever more.

OT: Read it at length and the curiosity seems to be all around how poor India should be rather than what India is. Am sure you can do better and make it a billion hits. Point is if you are genuinely interested, there are a gazillion lonely planet and other such travel threads that outline travel in India. You can get the viewpoint of unbiased travelers right from backpackers to those that live in royal resorts. The choice is yours - accept India is an emerging rival (note the choice of words), and if there is a genuine interest, rely on genuine sources. Of course, we encourage diversity of views and you might find it a new experience to have the same places both praised and cursed in the same thread. You're all welcome to visit India (without trying to sneak in through Arunachal Pradesh, of course). And you might just be surprised.

PS: Suraj, apologies for the OT.

I think you got it wrong. I own it to the poor Chrome trannslator. As a matter of fact, the culture shock mainly came from social,political and religion aspects. Many people contributed to the thread, including businessmem and travlers who ever visited India and students who are studying in Indian university.
I believe there is no unbiased viewpoint from any person. We form our point based on different viewpoints with our rational judgement.


I don't think you read the thread even quarter through. Or you will be find it your new expericence of diversity of viewpoint in communist country.


I just checked global map, there is no place called Arunachal Pradesh, so it seems you were worried for nothing.
I do have plan for visiting India, and hope to be surprised.

You're serious enough. There's an elected government (DEMOCRATIC) in this INDIAN state.
The thread you posted is completely unreliable, as you are. Thank you for visiting India - may your experience enrich your life. You can also apply for asylum at Dharamshala - there are a large number of Tibetans doing the same each year.

You mean the same map which shows Taiwan as a part of PRC?

Marten,
If you're convinced that the thread is completely unreliable, please prove it. I'm glad to hear another side of a story. As a democracy worshiper I can't be too ready to take your words to defend the ideal of democracy which seems damaged in the thread.
Before you do so, I'm afraid that India is the last place for me to apply for asylum. You read the thread and you knew why.

Raja Bose.
I saw maps which show Taiwan as part of PRC and other maps which show mainland China is part of ROC. Of cource , none of which has a place named Arunachal Pradesh.

So what ?

I guess then you should tell us, na educate us as to why the great peoples republic of China armed forces have so many missiles pointed at an island which is supposed to be a part of the Mainland? Do the Chinese threaten their own people with missiles?

Great post Chola. You should contribute more often.

Having a look at the thread after a short break. I find it telling that our Chinese guests have been reduced to proving Taiwan to be a part of the Mainland and denying that there exists a place called Arunachal Pradesh and that the people there prefer that name to Southern Tibet!

Jai Hu, Jai Mao!

Hope your firewall lets the links through.

http://arunachalpradesh.nic.in/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arunachal_Pradesh

the region was mentioned in the Hindu texts Kalika Purana and Mahabharata, and is attested to be the Prabhu Mountains of the Puranas, and was where sage Parashuram washed away sins, the sage Vyasa meditated, King Bhishmaka founded his kingdom and Lord Krishna married his consort Rukmini.

http://www.collinsmaps.com/maps/India/A ... 32.00.aspx

Forget Taiwan, PRC does not even have jurisdiction over Kinmen and Matsu Islands. Look at the maps to see where they are. They're not adjacent Taiwan; Kinmen is 2km from the mainland coast, off Xiamen. As an analogy, this would be like the Lankans controlling Rameswaram Island (which is about 2.5km, connected by Pamban Bridge) and keeping us out.

Let's have some perspective here - if my hypothetical Rameswaram example had been the case there's have been a 500-part thread going on with posters whining about impotent PMs and political establishment on our part. Here we have PRC - gleat powel with P5 membership, allied winner, SSBNs, SSNs, spacewalks etc but no control over an island so close. Yes they're a rising power, but are beset with absurd issues like this.

One needs to separate the bluster from the reality in the PRC-Taiwan crisis. Not only is Taiwan a thriving independent country but they hold territory right in front of PRC, and are backed by the US:

Could things change in future. Sure. But the present is what it is.

Folks, please stop wasting time trying to prove Arunachal Pradesh's existence.

^It did bring out the pathetic attempt to do an equal equal with Taiwan. Imagine when Tibet starts rumbling louder - these folks will have to post twice as much to keep the din out of their heads. The tipping point for China's economy is not a statistic - it will be at which point Tibet burns and forces the Chinese to understand what their oppression truly is like. The veil on their minds cannot lift itself unless they're honest to themselves. Sadly, the propagandu runs strong in these ones.

Guys! look away if squeamish. Behold the Supel Powel.

You mean both the maps you consulted were incorrect maps or you looked at maps which only show countries and not the states of each country.

Actually the bolded part of this statement of yours gives me a very nice insight into your thinking. You thought that since I am supposedly anti-China hence I would automatically consider the maps which show mainland China as part of ROC as being correct. That kind of polarized blinkered thinking only happens in totalitarian societies where it is more important to toe the party line rather than follow the truth.

That's not my way of thinking. Judging from the context, obviously I suppose the two kinds of maps are all correct.
It seems I can infer from your statement that you think the later kind of maps I saw is correct. In this case I think we can reach an agreement on it.

Base on my clarification and following your logic, obviouly this kind of polarized blinkered thinking is nothing but your way of thinking. I can't help wonderding why this happened in a democratic society. Maybe you're an Indian but lives in some totalitarian country. ?Then I get even more confused. Why do you prefer a totalitarian country over democratic India? Make no sense.

In fact both maps are wrong. They are correct only from propaganda point of view. The reality is that they are two independent countries with no control over the other one.

Please learn to distinguish propaganda from reality.

Actually from my statement you can clearly infer that both the maps are wrong because neither is PRC a part of ROC nor is ROC a part of PRC. But you are so eager to show that the later kind of maps would be considered 'correct' by me (since its anti-PRC and allegedly I am anti-PRC) that you didn't even read my post and just blindly assumed that I considered them correct. Guess what biladel? - in a democratic society we are taught to follow facts and the truth regardless of whether they adhere to our biases or not,....not some 'party approved' wonderfool version which may not have any link to reality. Speaking of blinkered blind obedience without thinking - my dear biladel you just yourself proved through your previous post that you have it and why you have it (all the reasons I gave above).

What happened to the drones? Did they suddenly gain wisdom or what?

I always think they put in for their 50 cent payment vouchers and don't get paid for poor performance. No re-educated Indians for instance. Once they get paid they are back in force like a pack.

hmm....the drones seem to have emigrated. I guess they didn't like the le-education here.

Perhaps they want to do some re-education on Bo Derek Xilai.

Drones.... Where are you? We miss you. Earlier pakis used to provide us the entertainment in this forum but they stopped after some time. Recently you guys took over that role and I was relieved that somebody decided to make this forum entertaining. Now, I really miss you. Please come back......

More Chini developers filing for bankruptcy

http://www.sify.com/finance/more-chines ... iaegc.html

The main fallacy with what you wrote and I've addressed it here before is that Taiwan, Japan and South Korea were all under some form of martial law or military government during the difficult stage of their development. Democracy didn't cure illiteracy, extreme poverty, low life expectancy and zero infrastructure in those 3 countries to create a lasting industrial base.

As for where are the 'drones', some of us take a 1-2 week holiday to Orlando with our children during Easter break and have better things to do than visit BR while on holiday.