Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

arun · Post by **arun** » 14 Mar 2012 07:43

X Posted.

Charlie wrote:Two Paki UN peace keepers in Haiti jailed for raping 14 year old boy

They were let off lightly by Paki army judges even though the victim was a minor. Guess, its a cultural thingy in the Islamic republic that Haitian wouldn't understand.

Two U.N. peacekeepers from Pakistan have been sentenced to a year in prison for raping a 14-year-old Haitian boy after being convicted in a Pakistani military trial in Haiti, authorities said on Monday.

U.N. spokeswoman Sylvie Van Den Wildenberg said judges from a Pakistani military tribunal came to the impoverished Caribbean nation to hold the trial that resulted in the conviction last week of the peacekeepers. They were found guilty in the rape of the boy in the northern city of Gonaives on January 20.

The two soldiers, who have not been identified by name, were summarily discharged from the military and sentenced to a year behind bars in their homeland, the U.N. spokeswoman said.

In a country where extra maritial sex between consenting adult hetrosexuals can get a punishment of being stoned to death, the handing down of a sentence by a Pakistani tribunal of a year for the homosexual rape of a minor is surprising.

Is this lenient sentence because Mohammadden religious Shariah law has some inbuilt clause that automatically reduces sentences for personnel belonging to the Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan?

Or is it because homosexual rape of non Mohammadden Kaafir minors has some inbuilt leeway in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s Mohammadden religious Shariah law based penal system?

tejas · Post by **tejas** » 14 Mar 2012 07:52

Under sharia, offenses committed against kaffirs always get lesser penalties. For example when paying blood money in lieu of prison time in Saudi Barbaria. if a muslim kills a nonmuslim monotheist i.e. christian or jew, the monetary penalty is 1/4 that for killing a muslim. The monetary penalty for killing a polytheist i.e. a yindu is 1/14th! If these people aren't a disgrace to the human race, we need a new definition for the word.

ManuT · Post by **ManuT** » 14 Mar 2012 08:10

Two Pakistani UN soldiers jailed for raping Haitian boy

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-17351144

Two United Nations peacekeepers from Pakistan have been sentenced to a year in prison and sacked from the army for raping a 14-year-old boy in Haiti.

The soldiers were found guilty by a Pakistani military tribunal in Haiti and will serve their terms back home.

Kailash · Post by **Kailash** » 14 Mar 2012 21:55

link

INCREASE IN CONSTRUCTION ACTIVITIES IN THE BORDER REGION BY PAKISTAN

The Government is aware through intelligence inputs that Pakistan has constructed and carried our repairs of bunkers, morchas and towers as per the following details (Period:2004 to 2011):

• Bunkers: 886
• Morcha: 261
• Towers: 398
• Post/Border Out Posts (BOPs): 143

Protests have been lodged with Pakistan Rangers and Flag Meetings of Field Commanders are held in all cases. The matter is also taken up by BSF with Pakistan Rangers during scheduled meetings at various levels.

Adequate troops are suitably supplemented by appropriate surveillance and technical intelligence resources to ensure the sanctity of the border.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 14 Mar 2012 22:47

tejas wrote:Under sharia, offenses committed against kaffirs always get lesser penalties. For example when paying blood money in lieu of prison time in Saudi Barbaria. if a muslim kills a nonmuslim monotheist i.e. christian or jew, the monetary penalty is 1/4 that for killing a muslim. The monetary penalty for killing a polytheist i.e. a yindu is 1/14th! If these people aren't a disgrace to the human race, we need a new definition for the word.

1:33 differential for killing a hindu woman

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 19 Mar 2012 18:19

some interesting pictures of a pak army base in the mountains on the afghan border
Guardian: Featured photojournalist: Anja Niedringhaus

sum · Post by **sum** » 19 Mar 2012 18:59

^^ All the weapons shown in the pic seem to be spanking new!!! Guess they dont see much use and are more for photo-ops?

Could any kind soul identify all the guns on display in various pics?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Mar 2012 19:04

the rifles are H&K G3 license made in ofb wah.
the sniper rifle looks like a commerical hunting rifle with scope than a dedicated sniper rifle. note the absense of any bipod.
and ofcourse the pakis need the murgis..where would they be without meat n wheat duopoly.

ParGha · Post by **ParGha** » 19 Mar 2012 19:41

The sniper rifle is a Steyr SSG 69. The BSF also uses the same. The POF produces decent quality firearms.

arun · Post by **arun** » 20 Mar 2012 08:45

X Posted from the Oppression of Minorities in Pakistan thread.

The discovery of 14 bodies sets of suspicion that the Punjabi dominated security forces of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan are killing off their fellow Mohammadden’s belonging to the minority Pathan / Pashtun ethno-linguistic group.

Editorial in Dawn:

Khyber operation

ALARMING news has been coming out of the ongoing operation in Khyber Agency. Fourteen bodies found on Sunday raised suspicions that men in custody had been killed, a charge denied by security agencies. This followed the discovery of 12 bodies last week ………………………….

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 21 Mar 2012 02:01

sum wrote:^^ All the weapons shown in the pic seem to be spanking new!!! Guess they dont see much use and are more for photo-ops?
Could any kind soul identify all the guns on display in various pics?

I think these are all posed Photo-ops... the gear looks way too clean, guns are spanking... more like the once over given to gear used for RD Parade... it looked comical to see that soldier wading thru knee high snow carrying a large ASSAULT Rifle and a SNIPER Rifle.
all for Ehh an Dee onleee

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 21 Mar 2012 02:22

uddu wrote:Ah, very long back we warned the Chinese about it in BR. The warning was that never ever get close to Adharmic Pakis. They are facing for their closeness and their support to the Pakis. The next will be attack on the Chinese with the same Nuclear weapons supplied by them. The reasons can be as simple as eating the pig. Threat exits for the U.S as well. It's them vs the rest of the world.
There is only one solution and it's dismemberment of Pakistan.

The Chinese Party mandarins have shown time and time again that they don't value the life of their citizenry, least of all when strategic objectives are to be reached - what difference to them if even 2000 had died - the end result would be an extra bargaining chip for them vs. TSP. TSP has gone off its rockers entirely - their entire goal now is to sink India as far as possible. They have given up on the idea of their own nation, once the elite get enough $$s stashed away in Switzerland, they'll jump ship and launch a non state sponsored JDAM on India, this of course will come at a time that is most painful, probly when China has already opened up a front.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 21 Mar 2012 02:23

clean? all the clothing looks very grubby and dishevelled

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 21 Mar 2012 07:21

^^^Regular troops...but the pics have been processed well. Also, lot of metal on those guns are compared to polymer on ours so, better and shiny finish. BTW - the unit is 20th Lancer.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 21 Mar 2012 07:41

rohitvats wrote:^^^Regular troops...but the pics have been processed well. Also, lot of metal on those guns are compared to polymer on ours so, better and shiny finish. BTW - the unit is 20th Lancer.

Rohit which parts are polymer versus metal? I did not notice that. I believe polymer has some advantages over metal in extreme cold. Apart from the weight factor.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Mar 2012 08:13

I believe tge G3 has the same polymer parts as insas except the mag which is alumunium. weight is about same per wiki.

mody · Post by **mody** » 07 Apr 2012 12:32

Over 100 paki soldiers buried in the snow near Siachen Glacier.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17643625

Seems like a big base was completely destroyed by the avalanche

adityadange · Post by **adityadange** » 07 Apr 2012 13:25

mody wrote:Over 100 paki soldiers buried in the snow near Siachen Glacier.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17643625

Seems like a big base was completely destroyed by the avalanche

I believe pakistan has lost about an entire company and maybe some of their valuable assets like weapons, radars, equipments etc. due to avalanche. What can be the effect of this on their war preparedness?

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 07 Apr 2012 14:30

Now they will blame India for the avalanche.

mody · Post by **mody** » 07 Apr 2012 14:54

Move in and capture Sher Post!!

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 07 Apr 2012 16:08

I hope none of 130 odd troops are found alive, Pakis should see this as Allah message that Siachin should be with India and sign on AGPL.
P.S Given thier ruthlessness in the past our troops with SA-7's should take out a few SAR helos and claim innocence, I don' t think there will be radar coverage these will also be attributed to bad weather.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 07 Apr 2012 16:50

Mody & Aditya V,
Not a good idea. There is an unwritten understanding b/n both sides to not take advantage of natural disasters like these. Even PA co-operates by maintaining a non threatening posture when our helis stray close to their posts in order to reach avalanche hit areas faster. So, while attacking PA at this time may result in short term gain, it may prove too costly for both sides in future as avalanche is a regular phenomenon in those areas.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 07 Apr 2012 18:24

IIRC, during the last massive earthquake in Kashmir, Pakistani Army marched towards border, not attending to the poor Kashmiris who got affected, so that India does not attack.

The infra at Siachin seems to have been affected badly. More so called militants will be killer to beg US for some dollars.

member_20067 · Post by **member_20067** » 07 Apr 2012 20:19

is not it relatively easy to trigger an avalanche if you occupy higher ridges by planting explosives etc.? Do the forces on both side resort to this type of activities?

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 07 Apr 2012 21:06

^^^
During Operation Safed Sagar, IAF did exactly that.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 07 Apr 2012 23:23

The part that is of major concern to them is that these were the same troops that specialized in avalanche rescue, etc. In some ways they were elite.

ManuT · Post by **ManuT** » 08 Apr 2012 07:57

IMO, unwittingly, the avalanche has washed away their sales pitch on the issue for the next few days.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 08 Apr 2012 20:48

India offers to help Pakistan to conduct rescue in Siachen

Bishwa · Post by **Bishwa** » 08 Apr 2012 22:09

The Outside Magazine had a very good description of Ghyari base in their Siachen coverage in Feb 2003. This includes a full page photo of the entrance of Ghyari base.

Some key points

1. Lodged at height of 12400 feet and can be reached by truck
2. Has a slogan "Guardians of the frozen frontier"
3. Further up the valley lie several artillery batteries
4. Is a supply center and rehab station
5. Consists of a dozen whitewashed buildings including a officers mess and a 600 year old mosque
6. Has a crude cricket field said to be the highest in the world
7. CO was a Lt. Colonel, 2CO was a Major and the camp had a Capt ranked Medical Officer
8. Troops came and go to Ghyari from Tabish (opposite Bilafondla) as well as Sher (on Chumik) among other posts. It takes six days of trek to reach Tabish from Ghyari and 3 days to hike to Sher.
9. Each summer in the Ghyari sector alone more than 35 pakistani bases, gun positions and fighting posts have to be stocked with some 2000 tons of ammo,rations and fuel. The material is freighted to Ghyari by truck.

The following is a map of the area that was made for a Bharat Rakshak Monitor 2003 article. It shows Ghyari and a base forward of it called Ali Brangsa. The supply route to Ali Brangsa goes via Ghyari. Ali Brangsa is commanded by a Major and has about 60 men and is at a height of 16800 ft (as per http://community.seattletimes.nwsource. ... ug=1701539)

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 09 Apr 2012 00:58

It is said that the original objective of Operation Meghdoot was Ghyari as mentioned in above article. You see, no Ghyari, no PA access to Saltoro Ridge or Siachen. In earlier times, the route from Northern Areas was through Ghyari-->Bilafondla-->upper reaches of Nubra Valley and then, either down the Nubra Valley to Nubra/Thoise or continue further east through Saser La to upper Shyok Valley-->Karakoram Pass-->Yarkand.

And that is Turtok along the LOC is very important - Indian success here can outflank the PA Base Camp in Ghyari. Other way around - PA can advance along the Shyok towards Nubra/Thoise and outflank the base camp for Siachen.

munda · Post by **munda** » 09 Apr 2012 02:39

I was watching a program on a Pakistani TV yesterday of Najam Sethi, he said that the motive of Zardari's visit to India is to give MFN status to India and in return ask to give up Siachen to Pakistan so as to have a goodwill with Pakistani Army (having given MFN status to India). I strongly believe that Pakistan has invented the Avalanche news to bring it in News and highlight problems faced and no such thing has happened over there.

munda · Post by **munda** » 09 Apr 2012 02:40

Aditya_V wrote:I hope none of 130 odd troops are found alive, Pakis should see this as Allah message that Siachin should be with India and sign on AGPL.
P.S Given thier ruthlessness in the past our troops with SA-7's should take out a few SAR helos and claim innocence, I don' t think there will be radar coverage these will also be attributed to bad weather.

I was watching a program on a Pakistani TV yesterday of Najam Sethi, he said that the motive of Zardari's visit to India is to give MFN status to India and in return ask to give up Siachen to Pakistan so as to have a goodwill with Pakistani Army (having given MFN status to India). I strongly believe that Pakistan has invented the Avalanche news to bring it in News and highlight problems faced and no such thing has happened over there.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 09 Apr 2012 06:02

Siachen is not going to be "given up" because it commands the Karakoram pass and the possibility of Chinese and Pakis linking up. Call me a spoilsport but I think too much time is wasted in "predicting" the gifting away of territory to Pakistan. This in fact has nothing to do with Pakistan and represents a basic mistrust of the Indian leadership, and a misunderstanding of the way government functions that manifests in statements all over the forum that something or the other is going to be given up. Yet another case of Indians being convinced that other Indians do not see India like they do but are traitors waiting to bring India down.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 09 Apr 2012 06:09

shiv wrote:Siachen is not going to be "given up" because it commands the Karakoram pass and the possibility of Chinese and Pakis linking up. Call me a spoilsport but I think too much time is wasted in "predicting" the gifting away of territory to Pakistan. This in fact has nothing to do with Pakistan and represents a basic mistrust of the Indian leadership, and a misunderstanding of the way government functions that manifests in statements all over the forum that something or the other is going to be given up. Yet another case of Indians being convinced that other Indians do not see India like they do but are traitors waiting to bring India down.

I feel you have a point, however, is there a reason that the GoI does not come out and say they will never give it up? Or have they said it in some other terms?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 09 Apr 2012 07:16

there have been multiple resolutions in parliament wrt J&K being a part of India. siachen is a small subset of J&K.

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 09 Apr 2012 07:18

shiv wrote:Siachen is not going to be "given up" because it commands the Karakoram pass and the possibility of Chinese and Pakis linking up. Call me a spoilsport but I think too much time is wasted in "predicting" the gifting away of territory to Pakistan. This in fact has nothing to do with Pakistan and represents a basic mistrust of the Indian leadership, and a misunderstanding of the way government functions that manifests in statements all over the forum that something or the other is going to be given up. Yet another case of Indians being convinced that other Indians do not see India like they do but are traitors waiting to bring India down.

Shiv saar, are you referring to Najam Sethi? Isn't he a Pakistani editor?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 09 Apr 2012 08:10

NRao wrote:
shiv wrote:Siachen is not going to be "given up" because it commands the Karakoram pass and the possibility of Chinese and Pakis linking up. Call me a spoilsport but I think too much time is wasted in "predicting" the gifting away of territory to Pakistan. This in fact has nothing to do with Pakistan and represents a basic mistrust of the Indian leadership, and a misunderstanding of the way government functions that manifests in statements all over the forum that something or the other is going to be given up. Yet another case of Indians being convinced that other Indians do not see India like they do but are traitors waiting to bring India down.
I feel you have a point, however, is there a reason that the GoI does not come out and say they will never give it up? Or have they said it in some other terms?

The way I see it is as follows. If you look at the occasional "sober" armed forces assessment of our borders and what might happen in any war (China or Pakistan) the statement is that in war it is sometimes necessary to "give up" some territory where the military is at a disadvantage and try and use the advantage of other areas where the military has an advantage of position. This assessment is that of a military man talking of a dynamic movement of borders. This goes totally against civilian sentiment such as that on BRF "We must not give up an inch of territory". The politician has to answer to the people but yet gets his inputs from the armed forces and has the job of both taking the right professional advice AND keeping the public happy.

In the case of Siachen, India appears to be in a commanding position. This is not one that can be abandoned. But diplomacy requires the idea that everything is negotiable. We are willing to negotiate Siachen. "Negotiate" does not mean give up.

The linking of Hafiz Saeed with Siachen or Sir creek would be ignorance on the part of the person who makes the link. Hafiz Saeed is a zero in the absence of the Pakistani army. It is ignorance to imagine that this is not known to the Indian armed forces and government. it is well known and many diplomats have written articles and spoken about it. Ultimately if trouble arises with Pakistan it is the armed forces who take the brunt. They can wipe out Saeeds in a hurry if they show up (They will hide) . Wiping out the Pakistani army is a different ball game.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 09 Apr 2012 11:42

Cross posting from the General Paki forum

The biggest peice of crap with I keep reading about Siachen glacier in both Indian and Paki Media is that Siachen was empty when Indian Army occupied it. Wonder why its so convenient to forget the sacrifices of Bana Singh and Co. and the SSG under one Brigadier Musharaf down hill skied there.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 09 Apr 2012 11:57

^^^All that happened after the start of hostilities. however, had IA not occupied the Siachen (which is a wrong term, actually) - it is PA which would have been sitting on our jugular in Nubra Valley.

IA occupies the Saltoro Ridge and certain important passes on it - this ridge is towards west of Siachen and hence, PA is no where even close to the glacier.

mody · Post by **mody** » 09 Apr 2012 12:07

India missed a big chance during the Kargil war. India should have continued further and annexed all of Baltistan and should have attained position to cut off Karakoram Highway anytime it wants.

The bigger enemy is China and one way to deal with China is to cutoff its use of Pakistan as its proxy to tie down India.
With China getting more and more involved in the Northern Areas and even planning to extend the KKH upto the pakistani coast, the biggest way to counter that would to be annex Baltistan.

The exact geography and topography of the area needs to be checked to see if we can build a motorable road from kargil upto Skardu from south of Deosai plains.

The local population in Baltistan are also not too friendly to the establishment in Islamabad or more correctly Rawalpindi, and with a reasonable degree of autonomy and good infra, education and medical development, could be manageable.

Plus if would also offer India a another bargaining chip with regards to China in the form of Shaksgam valley.

In future J&K could then be split into Jammu and Kashmir and Ladakh-Baltistan.