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PostPosted: 11 Apr 2012 09:56 
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HC bans reporting on controversial army movement

Quote:
A division bench comprising justice Uma Nath Singh and Justice V K Dixit directed the state home secretary to convey to both print and electronic media that they must desist from carrying any news relating to that particular movement of military troops.

The court's order came following a PIL filed by social activist N Thakur, who felt that such news could be harmful to security matters relating to the Indian army and the nation.

"The issue of movement of Army troops is not a matter of the kind which should require public discussion at the cost of defence official secrecy and the security of country," observed the bench.


While dismissing the petition, it added, "thus, without interfering with the independence of media and keeping in view the fact that the news items relating to movements of troops have already engaged the attention at the highest level in the defence as well as in the government, we think it appropriate to direct the secretary, home affairs, and the secretary, information & broadcasting, government of India and the principal secretary (home), government of UP, to ensure that there is no reporting/release of any news item by the print as well as electronic media relating to the subject matter, namely, the movement of troops."

Late in the day but a good move.


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PostPosted: 11 Apr 2012 12:32 
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Has the Prime Minister ignored the Service chiefs?

Quote:

Number of times the prime minister met with the Service chiefs in 2011: 1

Number of times the prime minister met with the Service chiefs in 2012: 0



Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has dispensed with even the necessary formality of convening regular meetings with the three defence chiefs to get a first-hand feedback about the Services.


The average of three to four meetings a year between the prime minister and the Service chiefs was reduced to just one in 2011.

This year not a single meeting has taken place so far despite the controversy surrounding the Indian Army and its modernisation plans.

Defence sources pointed out that over the years the Services have been distanced "more and more" from political decision making about defence issues, with even the customary interactions left in the form of regular meetings between the prime minister and the chiefs of the army, air force and navy being severely curtailed.

The result is that the political leadership has deprived itself of serious considered feedback about the status of the defence forces directly from the chiefs leading to what sources said, was a widening gap in communication.

Is this a CBM deal made with Unkil etc to deliberately keep the services weakened?


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PostPosted: 11 Apr 2012 12:39 
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sum wrote:
Has the Prime Minister ignored the Service chiefs?
Is this a CBM deal made with Unkil etc to deliberately keep the services weakened?


Its possible the PMO and PM have simply delegated greater defence policy functions to MoD and RM. Until one has also examined the frequency and quality of interactions between the services chiefs and the RM and defence secretary, its probably best to withhold judgement on whether an unprecedented schism between the political and military leaderships has come into existence.


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PostPosted: 11 Apr 2012 12:49 
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ManishH wrote:
In the context of Ammunition shortage mentioned in COAS's leaked letter ...

Ajai Shukla on NDTV: "Ammunition shortage has existed since NDA government. George Fernandes wanted an ordnance factory in his home constituency Samastipur; so stalled procurement."


Boss UPA has been in power for 7 continuous years, the INC has ruled at Center for about 53 out of 65 years, 6 years of 3 3rd front, NDA ruled 1 year 1998-99 was caretaker during Kargil and ruled 5 yrs only from 99 to 04, I think its time to completely discount that all of India's ills are because of 1999 elections. This is way past Sell by date.

NDTV(other media) also want to blame to 2G scam, coal scam etc at NDA.

Now, before George Fernandes is once again held guilty without trial, what is the conviction in so called Open - Shut Tehelka cases- nothing. Only MOD babus who joined office long before him and probably were corrupt long before GF became Defense minister has strong cases against them.

Infact the entire media, Left, third front and INC should hold their heads in shame for Tehelka, they only showed the Institutional corruption in MOD which was inherited by NDA after 50 years of INC/ Third front rule.


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PostPosted: 11 Apr 2012 12:51 
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sum wrote:


As I keep saying, both the hundreds and thousands of omissions by Man mohan of basic governance duties, coupled with alarming terrier like alacrity over a few topics over last 7 years -- themselves are a crystal clear testimony of where the priorities are -- Quite clearly.

The writing is on the wall and has been for quite some time. Only a question of willingness to honestly look at what exists or keep spinning "chankian excuses"


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PostPosted: 11 Apr 2012 12:55 
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Viv S wrote:
sum wrote:
Has the Prime Minister ignored the Service chiefs?
Is this a CBM deal made with Unkil etc to deliberately keep the services weakened?


Its possible the PMO and PM have simply delegated greater defence policy functions to MoD and RM. Until one has also examined the frequency and quality of interactions between the services chiefs and the RM and defence secretary, its probably best to withhold judgement on whether an unprecedented schism between the political and military leaderships has come into existence.


Oh please sorry, certain things like Defence, Foreign policy , general Finance/ economic policies, Law and order, legal policies cannot be Delegated- you never delegate responsibly.

its like saying JFK should have left the decision to attack Cuba during the missile crises to some 4 star general in the Pentagon, that does not work.

The PM has some basic responsibilities to the nation which he must perform and listening to Service chiefs especially when we are blessed with Neighbors which we have, with whom we are engaged in dialogue with serious defense implications require the PM to consult them all the more.

This is incompetence and nothing less.


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PostPosted: 11 Apr 2012 13:11 
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He is a old man. Very old man by india's demographic curve criteria. Who all he can meet in a day ? You guys expect so much from MMS.
Isn't he meeting Gila-ni and Hu and Ombaba on regular basis.
Anyways he has met service chiefs once in 2011. What has changed in 2012 for him to meet them again.
Batao Batao..


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PostPosted: 11 Apr 2012 13:30 
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Aditya_V wrote:
Oh please sorry, certain things like Defence, Foreign policy , general Finance/ economic policies, Law and order, legal policies cannot be Delegated- you never delegate responsibly.


All of them are a preserve of the Union Cabinet of which the RM is senior member.


Quote:
its like saying JFK should have left the decision to attack Cuba during the missile crises to some 4 star general in the Pentagon, that does not work.


When a Cuba like crisis occurs, one would expect the PM, RM, rest of the Cabinet and the service chiefs to be together until it abated. In a bunker.


Quote:
The PM has some basic responsibilities to the nation which he must perform and listening to Service chiefs especially when we are blessed with Neighbors which we have, with whom we are engaged in dialogue with serious defense implications require the PM to consult them all the more.


Have you heard any of the service chiefs complain about the RM having inadequate authority on any matter that pertains defence, requiring the PM to step in?

The entire issue of space between the political and defence leadership, long predates the UPA and NDA governments. And the ideal solution - a four star Chief of Defence Staff uninvolved in everyday management of the services, to represent them in policy meetings in the Cabinet Committee on Security and National Security Council, serving as a single point of access, accompanying the RM overseas in a role not unsimilar to the defence secretary - is one that the services haven't been able to agree on.


Quote:
This is incompetence and nothing less.


Unless you're privy to internal correspondence and minutes of meetings, that's just rhetoric.


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PostPosted: 11 Apr 2012 14:42 
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Quote:
As Issac Pulitzer wrote" Accuarcy is to newspaper, as virtue is to a woman!"

To which one lady replied "A newspaper can always print a retraction!"

________________________________________________________________________________

Ramana : the person you are referring to was Joseph Pulitzer, in whose honour the Pulitzer Prizes were instituted.

He also gave a generous donation to Columbia University to set up its Graduate School of Journalism.

By the way, I completely agree with you about your assessment of Shekhar Gupta and your opinion of people who continue to read that rag-sheet as long as the Gupta fellow continues to be its editor.


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PostPosted: 11 Apr 2012 23:00 
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Forces headed for turf war
Quote:
SUJAN DUTTA
Antony

New Delhi, April 10: Defence minister A.K. Antony today said the air defence system of the country was being strengthened with new weapons and sensors.

The army chief in a letter to the Prime Minister on March 12 had pointed out that the army’s air defence capabilities had eroded by about “97 per cent”.

Antony was speaking at the air force commanders’ conference where he said the new equipment was being inducted into the IAF. He said in the last five years, the IAF had signed 317 contracts and its purchases had topped Rs 107,000 crore. “This is a record,” Antony said.

The army has also asked for an upgradation of its air defences. The army’s wishlist under Gen. V.K. Singh may lead to a turf war with the air force. Under the Union War Book — a record of experience and assessment in times of hostilities — air defence is the primary responsibility of the IAF. The war book is revised periodically.

But the army now wants to equip itself with air defence systems that the IAF can interpret as overreach in its domain. The army wants “mobile, multi-layered and multi-tiered” air defence systems to sanitise the “air envelope” from stand-off threats (weapons fired from beyond visual range).

This means the army wants to replace its current air defence systems — that comprise Kvadrats (Russian-origin), L-70s (Bofors-made), Schilka and Pechora (Russian-origin) — with quick-reaction surface-to-air missiles (QR-SAMs, up to 30km range), MR-SAMs (medium range up to 60km) and LR-SAMS (long range, beyond 60km) missiles.

Medium range and long range air defence is the primary responsibility of the IAF though the roles overlap in times of hostilities and depending on the nature of the combat zone.

Combat zones may be within the country or inside the territory of an adversary.

There is already a turf war brewing between the army and the air force over the acquisition of aircrafts. In addition to the helicopters in the Army Aviation Corps, the army has also asked for fixed-wing planes.

Antony said on the sidelines of the conference today that reports of a drastic fall in munition stores “are all rumours”. One report had said the tanks of the army have ammunition that would not last for more than four days in the event of a war.

“You see I can assure that the country is fully prepared. India is in a much, much stronger position compared to the past. There may always be some shortcomings that we are in the process of overcoming. You cannot expect 100 per cent fulfilment of requirements…. On the whole, Indian armed forces are… in a better position to meet any challenge to our integrity,” Antony said.

Air Chief Marshal N.A.K. Browne has said the fleet of Mirage 2000 fighter aircraft that were grounded after one of the planes crashed on March 5 would be fully operational by the end of this month.


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PostPosted: 11 Apr 2012 23:19 
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shyamd wrote:
Forces headed for turf war
Quote:
SUJAN DUTTA
Antony

New Delhi, April 10: Defence minister A.K. Antony today said the air defence system of the country was being strengthened with new weapons and sensors.

The army chief in a letter to the Prime Minister on March 12 had pointed out that the army’s air defence capabilities had eroded by about “97 per cent”.

---SNIP -----


What a pile of garbage? Is there anything worth in that report which is not sensationalist or already known?
Damn!!! These reporters should be publicly ridiculed, tarred and feathered for their irresponsible journalism.

--Ashish


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PostPosted: 12 Apr 2012 02:45 
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IA has asked for fixed wing planes? If true, what kind, does anyone know?


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PostPosted: 12 Apr 2012 03:38 
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Government on overdrive to tide over tanks’ ammunition crunch

Quote:
NEW DELHI: With Army chief General V K Singh ominously warning his entire tank fleet is ``devoid of critical ammunition to defeat enemy tanks'', the government is fast-tracking orders to arm the T-90S main-battle tanks with missiles and specialized ammunition for a greater punch on the western front with Pakistan.

Top sources say contracts for 25,000 Invar missiles and 66,000 APFSDS (armour-piercing fin-stabilized discarding sabot) rounds for the Russian-origin T-90S fleet as well as 10,000 Konkurs-M anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs), at an overall cost of around Rs 6,000 crore, are in the final stages.

This comes after Gen Singh wrote a confidential letter to PM Manmohan Singh on March 12, which found its way into the public domain, detailing the critical ``hollowness'' in his 1.13-million-strong Army's war-waging capabilities.

Defence minister A K Antony, incidentally, is slated to hold the third review meeting on Gen Singh's concerns on April 17-18. While the procurement process for the new contracts was initiated quite sometime ago, their swift conclusion has become a top-priority over the last few weeks.

There are two big contracts for the 3UBK-Invar missiles, which are potent anti-tank weapons with a five-km strike range, in the pipeline. The first is for 10,000 missiles for Rs 1,386 crore from Russia for which a ``draft'' CCS (cabinet committee on security) note has already been prepared and circulated, say sources.

The rest 15,000 missiles will be ordered from defence PSU Bharat Dynamics Ltd, at a cost of over Rs 2,000 crore, for which the contract negotiations committee (CNC) is in progress.

Another over Rs 2,000 crore contract will be for the 66,000 APFSDS rounds fired from the 125mm smooth-bore guns of T-90S tanks. The reserve stocks for this specialized ammunition is down to only four days, as Army vice-chief Lt-Gen S K Singh told the parliamentary standing committee on defence on Monday.

The Army is also going to get the 10,000 Konkurs-M ATGMs directly from Russia for over Rs 1,200 crore. ``All these contracts should be inked within the next few months,'' said a source.

The T-90S fleet, incidentally, has grappled with glitches in its missile and thermal imaging systems right since its induction after India first ordered 310 of these tanks for over Rs 3,625 crore under a February 2001 contract with Russia.

India went in for T-90S tanks since Pakistan was inducting T-80UD tanks from Ukraine as well as `Al Khalid' MBTs developed with China's help, and the indigenous Arjun tanks were then nowhere on the horizon.

Initially, India had plans to manufacture another 1,000 T-90S tanks at the Avadi Heavy Vehicles Factory, but Russia, eager to squeeze out more money, put several roadblocks in the transfer of technology (ToT) promised.

It was only after India signed another Rs 4,900-crore deal with Russia in November, 2007, to import another 347 of these tanks, coupled with Antony pushing the ToT case with his Russian counterparts, that Moscow eased controls.

Since then, the Avadi factory has built 170 T-90S tanks, with the annual production slated to touch 100 tanks in 2012. Moreover, the Army has ordered 124 more Arjuns after the initial order of 124 in 2004.


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PostPosted: 12 Apr 2012 03:57 
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Absolutely amazing. With the tin can-90 purchase, India cannot even manufacture the ammo for the effing tank???!!!! At least with the Bofors scam, the damn artillery actually worked. I bet after the "leak" that the IA was low on tank ammo, the Russians gave us friendship prices on the emergency ammo purchase.If you believe that I have some prime beach front property I can sell you in Siberia. How this scam goes univestigated is beyond comprehension. :evil: :evil:


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PostPosted: 12 Apr 2012 05:53 
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tejas wrote:
How this scam goes univestigated is beyond comprehension. :evil: :evil:


Can the 'investigators' investigate their own bosses? :wink:


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PostPosted: 12 Apr 2012 06:39 
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Army chief Gen VK Singh says Vectra boss behind Rs. 14-cr offer

CBI initiates probe into Army Chief bribe charge


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PostPosted: 12 Apr 2012 07:58 
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Retd Admiral vishnu bhagwath on Gen V K singh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqD0vart ... ure=relmfu


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PostPosted: 12 Apr 2012 15:28 
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Don't know if the following report was posted on the forum.

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/whos- ... 40639.html

A report about the age controversy of the army chief. The author is a ex-army intelligence and ex-raw officer.

It was always about when he would leave the office and not when he would take over. Whether 1950 or 1951 had no bearing on when he would take over. It only has bearings on when he would leave.

The sad part is that most senior serving and retired officers know the real reasons behind the controversy and this is going to have a very bad effect on the morale of the forces.


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PostPosted: 12 Apr 2012 20:23 
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One of the punctual trains in India is the 'Gravy train'. It runs long and never misses its time. Mr Arvind Joshi was on board this train as Joint Secretary Ground/Air during the Kargil Conflict and Operation Parakram. A presumptuous report on his links with Mr Ravi Rishi of TATRA fame may not be way off the mark after all.

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/it-probes-jo ... 178-3.html


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PostPosted: 13 Apr 2012 01:52 
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Ravi Rishi is one shady character. He was wanted in the 80's by the GOI under COEPOSA Act. He stayed abroad till the validity of the charges time lapsed and then became promptly became a UK citizen. Arvind Joshi and his wife (both IAS) have been suspended for having assets disproportionate (over Rs 500 crores) to their known source of income.


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PostPosted: 13 Apr 2012 08:21 
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R^2 real links are with RG.
That is why all these bogus links to throw off the scent.


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PostPosted: 13 Apr 2012 11:52 
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Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan, who later became India's first Vice President and second President, described the significance of the Indian National Flag as follows:
“ Bhagwa or the [deep] saffron colour denotes renunciation or disinterestedness. Our leaders must be indifferent to material gains and dedicate themselves to their work. The white in the centre is light, the path of truth to guide our conduct. The green shows our relation to (the) soil, our relation to the plant life here, on which all other life depends. The "Ashoka Chakra" in the centre of the white is the wheel of the law of dharma. Truth or satya, dharma or virtue ought to be the controlling principle of those who work under this flag. Again, the wheel denotes motion. There is death in stagnation. There is life in movement. India should no more resist change, it must move and go forward. The wheel represents the dynamism of a peaceful change.[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saffron_%28color%29


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PostPosted: 13 Apr 2012 12:49 
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VikasRaina wrote:
He is a old man. Very old man by india's demographic curve criteria. Who all he can meet in a day ? You guys expect so much from MMS.
Isn't he meeting Gila-ni and Hu and Ombaba on regular basis.
Anyways he has met service chiefs once in 2011. What has changed in 2012 for him to meet them again.
Batao Batao..



Is it possible that he has met Obama and Hu more than his own chiefs? If true then it's an amazing statistic.


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PostPosted: 13 Apr 2012 16:43 
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MoD Task Force to visit select defence installations in Bangalore


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PostPosted: 13 Apr 2012 18:16 
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x-post from military misc

Quote:


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PostPosted: 13 Apr 2012 18:51 
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Why India cannot afford to give up Siachen?

http://www.rediff.com/news/column/why-i ... 120413.htm


If Vikram Sood felt compelled to write this then it is contrary to some folks here who think MMS and other retards will not sell us out.

He even points out that this time its not the usual talk for sake of talk nonsense.

The US needs to withdraw with some level of echandee - and will do anything to get its way

So the majority of BRF which feels that MMS for whatever lollipop from the US will do this - zre more likely right


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PostPosted: 13 Apr 2012 19:14 
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SIPRI world arms database records since 1950
Link

one may get data on arms purchase of any year, country with details.
(Sorry to post in wrong thread)


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PostPosted: 13 Apr 2012 21:04 
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Merit, talent to be recognised in Army's new automated recruitment process.

With the Army deciding to fully automate and streamline the recruitment process, merit and talents of candidates would come to the fore and there would also be transparency, according to Brigadier Pankaj Sinha, Deputy Director, Recruitment—Southern States.

He said candidates, after undergoing Medical and Physical Fitness tests, would be asked to take tests on computers at the fixed centres. Initially it is likely to be introduced in the technical category and consequently for all categories. The tests would be designed such that candidates could take it even if they did not have basic computer knowledge. “They just have to click the right answer. We will also provide them 15-minute training prior to the test,” he said.

There would be three computerised test centres in Tamil Nadu before this year end, he told reporters here last evening. Brig Sinha was here to inspect the Army recruitment rally currently underway in the city.

He said under the open rally system, there was no application and candidates need not pay any fees. Since there are no middlemen, candidates should be careful about touts promising to get them through, he said, adding police had been requested to keep tabs and initiate action against touts.

Brig Sinha said the Army had introduced a new regulation, disqualifying those with tattoos from joining the army. The rule has been implemented from a medical point of view as tattooing could cause some nervous disorders. Maintaining that the Army is still a prestigious service, Brig Sinha said they had filled up all vacancies from Tamil Nadu and also absorbed people for additional vacancies from other zones.

All districts in the country were given proportional representation. Six per cent of Army recruits are from Tamil Nadu, he said, adding “we are able to get the best candidates from Tamil Nadu.”

He said awareness programmes are being organised regularly in educational institutions to motivate students to join the Army.


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PostPosted: 13 Apr 2012 21:14 
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Army to buy new air defence system after General's letter.

Army has initiated the process of acquiring new gun systems to take on enemy aircraft and missiles, a month after its chief General VK Singh raised the issue of obsolescence of air defence systems in a letter to the Prime Minister.

"The Army is planning to procure Air Defence Guns have a calibre of more than 30mm and is capable of engaging air targets," Army officials said.

The process to acquire these guns has been initiated after General Singh in his letter to the Prime Minister that was leaked contended that 97% of the air defence guns were facing obsolescence.

They said the service has issued a global Request for Information in this regard recently listing its requirements.The Army has specified that the gun should be capable of being transported by broad gauge rakes of the Railways.

The Army Air Defence has initiated several other tenders also for replacing its Russian-origin air defence systems.

For upgrading the capabilities of the Army Air Defence (AAD), the Defence Ministry recently said that it ahas signed contracts for procuring Akash Missile Systems and steps were being taken for upgrading Self-propelled Air Defence and Schilka air defence systems.

After the Army Chief pointed out these deficiencies to the government, Defence Minister AK Antony had held meetings to review the capital acquisitions of the force. (Till then the so called "Non Corrupt" minister was sleeping and waiting for instructions from the "high command")

The Defence Ministry has also taken several steps to do away with the shortage of tank ammunition and has signed contracts with the Russian Rosobornoexport for supplying ammunition for the T-90 tanks.


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PostPosted: 14 Apr 2012 05:11 
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with the Indian defence forces going on a money splurge on world global arms market to the tune of 100 billion dollars over the next decade, the 6 firms blacklisted will be ruing the day they got caught.
They will be out of contracts for the next decade.
stunning and lethal blow at least in terms of Indian trade.
If India keeps up its commitment of not trading with them for 10 years, then it will surely send shivers down the spine of other defence companies not to mess with us trying to corrupt officials.
This is one positive outcome of the Mr incorruptibly corrupt raksha mantriji. :twisted: :evil:

Due to the above and intense competition with others can India leverage the contracts to get the technology and better prices.
or it will take a govt-govt sponsored acquisition.
Will this give a fillip to local production.


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PostPosted: 14 Apr 2012 06:33 
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Quote:
If India keeps up its commitment of not trading with them for 10 years, then it will surely send shivers down the spine of other defence companies not to mess with us trying to corrupt officials.


Isn't there something wrong with the picture???

Instead of punishing the corrupt officials we are going after the companies??
And then we wonder why we don't have the proper equipment!!!

Drag the a$$holes officials out in public and seize their property.
Throw them out of the government and barred from public service.
Make sure that they and their families are forced to beg on streets.

As a nation and society, how much tolerance should one have for such markedly anti-social behavior?

--Ashish


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PostPosted: 14 Apr 2012 06:42 
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Misraji wrote:

Instead of punishing the corrupt officials we are going after the companies??
And then we wonder why we don't have the proper equipment!!!

Drag the a$$holes officials out in public and seize their property.

--Ashish


Ashish,
there are 2 aspects here-
1) defence companies blacklisted should run the penalty time. No contracts for 10 years. period.
2) Indians who cooperated with corruption should have cases registered and penalised according to the law. This is understood impliictly. if we take strict action in 1) the second will take care of itself to some extent.

The defence companies are foreign- nothing much can be done by Indian govt except stop giving contracts to them. it will bite surely hard as Indian pie is nearly 100 billion in 10 years.

Pitfall is we may lose on some good weapons.
Fillip should be given to local production.


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PostPosted: 14 Apr 2012 06:57 
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krisna wrote:
--SNIP--
2) Indians who cooperated with corruption should have cases registered and penalised according to the law. This is understood impliictly. if we take strict action in 1) the second will take care of itself to some extent.

--SNIP--


How many officials do you hear off being charged as such?..... Zero
How many companies do you see being black-listed? ..... IMI, Bofors, Denel .... This list will just keep on increasing.

The answer is crystal clear.
Throw the officials out. Given the magnitude of the problem, act first, ask later.
If you are suspected of impropriety, you get thrown out. Period.

krisna wrote:

--SNIP--

The defence companies are foreign- nothing much can be done by Indian govt except stop giving contracts to them. it will bite surely hard as Indian pie is nearly 100 billion in 10 years.
--SNIP--



Again!! Money talks.
Tell them. If you want the contract, throw out the guy who offered the bribe.
You think one man is worth more than a contract?
That will work.

--Ashish


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PostPosted: 14 Apr 2012 07:10 
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Ashish,
dont fight with me, it is not between you and me.
read my original post.
:((


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PostPosted: 14 Apr 2012 07:17 
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Posts: 355
Location: USA
krisna wrote:
Ashish,
dont fight with me, it is not between you and me.
read my original post.
:((


Apologies if my post came off as argumentative.
Its just that I can't believe how complacent/soft we have become as a nation.

If there is corruption scandal, the first thing our MOD does is ban the company.
Its like, "What the HELL!!!"
Look inside. Bury the guy who took the bribe.
Then we can take care of outsiders.

We have taken this democratic values thingie too far!!

--Ashish


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PostPosted: 14 Apr 2012 07:42 
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BRFite

Joined: 03 Jan 2010 00:46
Posts: 1396
Vipul wrote:
Army to buy new air defence system after General's letter.


For upgrading the capabilities of the Army Air Defence (AAD), the Defence Ministry recently said that it ahas signed contracts for procuring Akash Missile Systems and steps were being taken for upgrading Self-propelled Air Defence and Schilka air defence systems.

After the Army Chief pointed out these deficiencies to the government, Defence Minister AK Antony had held meetings to review the capital acquisitions of the force. (Till then the so called "Non Corrupt" minister was sleeping and waiting for instructions from the "high command")


Its not sure its quite that simple. While acquisition of the Akash had already been sanctioned, the larger issue is what comes next. The obvious answer was mobile SAMs. There is a strong school of thought that calls for retiring all air defence artillery and switching exclusively to missiles. The Russians for example have upgraded their gun systems but have no replacements planned once they retire. The US Army has completely phased out all air defence artillery in favour of missile based defence - Avenger, Patriot, THAAD. The IA's drive to acquire similar classes of SAMs has met with strident opposition from the IAF which views it as an encroachment on its turf.

Point is, the new RFI and upgrade proposals have been issued after the recent pressure on the govt, but the jury is still out on whether that was the right call. I suppose if nothing else, they should be effective against UAVs and moderately useful against cruise missiles.


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PostPosted: 14 Apr 2012 07:56 
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BRFite

Joined: 03 Jan 2010 00:46
Posts: 1396
Misraji wrote:
How many officials do you hear off being charged as such?..... Zero
How many companies do you see being black-listed? ..... IMI, Bofors, Denel .... This list will just keep on increasing.

The answer is crystal clear.
Throw the officials out. Given the magnitude of the problem, act first, ask later.
If you are suspected of impropriety, you get thrown out. Period.


That's one way of looking at it. But you and I both know what the state of the Indian judicial system is. Were the govt to take action primarily against individuals, the companies would end up with a relaxed attitude towards corruption - why worry when you know the case will carry on interminably. Its possible that many companies end up unfairly accused, but then it is also possible that the MoD is privy to facts that while true may not be provable in a court of law.

Think of it like the Indian countryside; everyone knows so-and-so is a dreaded don, but were you to try in him western style system, he'll continue to have a ball and terrorize the public. Practically he can be handled only when the police and administration collude after receiving the necessary political backing (think Nitish Kumar's Bihar).

Coming to the blacklisting of companies, there is certainly a price being paid in the short term when frivolous allegations hold up arms procurement, but over the long term a clear message goes out - the way to 'handle business in India' is changing, and all companies would be best served by rigorously and transparently sticking to the straight and narrow.


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PostPosted: 14 Apr 2012 09:37 
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Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Posts: 7778
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar
Surya wrote:
Why India cannot afford to give up Siachen?

http://www.rediff.com/news/column/why-i ... 120413.htm


If Vikram Sood felt compelled to write this then it is contrary to some folks here who think MMS and other retards will not sell us out.

He even points out that this time its not the usual talk for sake of talk nonsense.

The US needs to withdraw with some level of echandee - and will do anything to get its way

So the majority of BRF which feels that MMS for whatever lollipop from the US will do this - zre more likely right


More voices coming out and the article even mentions about MMS and his Nobel prize ( this coming from a ex-MI man). So, can imagine something good not happening in the background:

X-post:
sum wrote:
You know that something not so good is brewing if a ex-MI honco is forced to write a column warning GoI not to conceed on Siachen:
India can ill-afford to pull out from Siachen

Quote:
Ever since a massive avalanche claimed over 100 Pakistani lives in Gyari near Siachen, which coincided with a cordial meeting between prime minister Manmohan Singh and president Asif Ali Zardari in New Delhi last week, there has been a surfeit of speculation and suggestions about demilitarising Siachen.

Every Indian soldier empathises with the affected Pakistani families. It was a massive, though rare avalanche and a colossal tragedy, but life in the defence forces is hazardous – much more so in Siachen, where avalanches, crevasses, frost bites and pulmonary edema are daily occurrences.

Indian troops deployed at 20,000 ft, lose 180 men on an average every year – 95 per cent of them to these causes. Pakistani troops at much lower heights of around 12,000 ft also lose an average of 100 men but half of them to our fire during their attempts to dislodge our troops. Wars are a costly affair not just in terms of money. All nations pay this price in the interest of national imperatives, as they must.

That, however, does not warrant obfuscating ground realities, historical facts and strategic issues. Facts first. India occupied Saltoro ridge in 1984 by pre-empting Pakistan’s impending occupation of Bila Fondla by a mere couple of days. India had no plans to hold the area during winter but incessant attacks by Pakistan to retake the passes compelled India to stay. Pakistan has much easier supply lines including roads and mule tracks and greater reinforcement potential in Siachen.

Indian troops take upto a week of climbing to reach their positions and are entirely helicopter maintained. In case Pakistan ever occupies these heights, we may never be able to take them again. The LoC was demarcated upto Pt (NJ 9843), from where it was to continue north to the glaciers. Saltoro Ridge connects NJ 9842 to a point exactly north of it after taking a minor easterly detour, which in fact is territorially advantageous to Pakistan. In practice, boundaries always adhere to geographical logic.

For India, Saltoro Ridge forms the only defensive bulwark against China, overwhelming the Nubra and Shyok river valleys in Ladakh, and if we vacate, Pakistan can do likewise. If anything, Pakistan must recognise that we have not transgressed into the northern areas of Gilgit – Baltistan which historically belonged to the Kingdom of Mahraja Hari Singh, and do not legally belong to Pakistan even today. This is an area of great strategic importance to both countries as this enables the only possible surface connectivity between India and Afghanistan. There is no historical, political or military justification for Pakistan to deny us the right to be there. Yet, year after year Pakistan has launched attacks to dislodge Indian forces from Saltoro.




Quote:
In fact we came pretty close to losing our dominance in 1988. Then Brig Pervez Musharraf was commanding the SSG Brigade at Skardu and this author headed the Military Intelligence in the Corps HQ at Srinagar. A chance interception of telephonic conversation between a Pakistani captain and his wife alerted us. Close observations of Pakistani movements and a detailed intelligence appreciation of possibilities led us to conclude that a major attack by more than one SSG Brigade against the central glacier was imminent.

That appeared too audacious. Senior commanders and intelligence experts were not prepared to endorse this assessment. But the Pakistan Army has never lacked audacity even in deceit. Only professional insistence by the author persuaded the Army Chief, General Sunderji, to order precautionary reinforcements. The attack came exactly as predicted and, Musharraf having got a bloody nose could do only two things. First, he profusely abused his troops who had indeed fought bravely and second he pledged to avenge his defeat, which eventually manifested in the form of Kargil.



Quote:
President Nixon has been quoted to highlight how India was forever inclined to marginalise its territorial peripheries. Jawaharlal Nehru put faith in the Chinese professions of ‘Hindi Cheeni Bhai Bhai’, and oblivious to the crucial strategic significance of Aksai Chin, gifted it away to China as a desolate area where not a blade of grass grew.
There has been much motivated talk of Manmohan Singh earning passage to history through the award of a Nobel Peace Prize. Can India permit him to follow his ambition by gifting away Siachen to Pakistan as a great confidence building measure and saving both India and Pakistan a few thousand crore rupees apiece?

Our defence forces will not be party to the proposal. Insha Allah.
:-o :-o


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PostPosted: 14 Apr 2012 09:58 
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Joined: 19 Nov 2009 03:27
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‘Defence Ministry must respond positively to move to amend AFSPA'


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PostPosted: 14 Apr 2012 11:36 
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Joined: 29 Sep 2007 05:01
Posts: 3407
Location: Dehradun
From a 2007 report:

Quote:
It is after two decades of occupation that the army is nearing a zero casualty syndrome on the Siachen glacier, with no casualty being recorded due to cold.

With the availability of state of art medicare facilities, best battle field robes and equipment, high living conditions and Indo-Pak border truce since November 2003, the Siachen casualties have declined.


http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... casualties

Now the IA casualities due to cold etc at Siachen are zero. Zilch. So why does the author borrow from the Paki Officers rediff article and quote this crap..
Quote:
Indian troops deployed at 20,000 ft, lose 180 men on an average every year – 95 per cent of them to these causes.


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