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 Post subject: Re: Indian Autos Thread
PostPosted: 30 Mar 2012 13:23 
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Aditya_V wrote:
I somehow see the Fiesta Classic whose Price has been drastically cut after the new Fiesta, Sales picking up.

It's going to be weird. The new Fiesta sales are abysmally low (less than 100 last month) and the Classic has always outperformed the new Fiesta. However the recent excise rate bands favour the new Fiesta with the 1.5L engine. They've also dropped the price of a the new Fiesta by almost a Lakh. But still i dont see Fiesta eating into Dzire's numbers. Sunny probably will.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Autos Thread
PostPosted: 30 Mar 2012 14:58 
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The new fiesta looks bad bad bad. Tinnish feeling and weird curves. Saw a blue coloured one this morning.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Autos Thread
PostPosted: 30 Mar 2012 18:46 
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Sriman wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:
I somehow see the Fiesta Classic whose Price has been drastically cut after the new Fiesta, Sales picking up.

It's going to be weird. The new Fiesta sales are abysmally low (less than 100 last month) and the Classic has always outperformed the new Fiesta. However the recent excise rate bands favour the new Fiesta with the 1.5L engine. They've also dropped the price of a the new Fiesta by almost a Lakh. But still i dont see Fiesta eating into Dzire's numbers. Sunny probably will.


No it does not to qualify for lower 12.36% Ed as opposed to 24.72% , you must have a Petrol Engine less than 1200cc or Diesel Engine less than 1500CC along with an Overall Body length less than 4 meters. The Fiesta Sedan can't be less than 4 meters so it not qualify for lower Excise duty. It is because of this 4 meter condition the new Dzire looks funny with its small boot.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Autos Thread
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2012 09:39 
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This decade is going to be that of the Hybrid cars. The first signs can be seen here.
http://www.jcarblog.com/2012/02/06/toyo ... t-tenfold/
According to Car Watch, Toyota had set a monthly sales target of 12,000 units for the car when it arrived to market.
Things didn't quite turn out that way. As the expression goes, there are some problems that are nice to have. The number of orders placed for the Aqua didn't just reach 12,000, they climbed to 120,000 between December 26th and January 31st, ten units for every one predicted. The article quotes Toyota as saying that they're "off to a wonderful beginning," and it's hard to disagree.
Toyota Aqua witha fuel economy 35 km/L
http://in.news.yahoo.com/photos/toyota- ... 19449.html


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Autos Thread
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2012 12:10 
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Fiat has a new car in US


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Autos Thread
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2012 12:52 
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Acharya wrote:
Fiat has a new car in US

The 500? Surprised they didn't bring the Abarth Punto targeted at the Mini crowd.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Autos Thread
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2012 19:08 
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There is a Abarth 500 too. Fiat did the dumbest thing ever by hiring Jennifer Lopez for 500 ads there by killing half the (male) market.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Autos Thread
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2012 12:16 
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Hmm. Economic Times says that Tata Motors & M&M posted strong sales.
Nano sales grew by 20% to 10475 units , despite it being petrol only.

Now Alto and others will need to start shivering in their dhotis, if newer models with a boot that can open, more plush interiors etc start coming out kaching-kaching from Tata. If the diesel engine version comes out, that will deliver a killer blow. Suzuki has not been able to engineer a diesel engine until now!


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Autos Thread
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2012 12:51 
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Acharya wrote:
Fiat has a new car in US


If you mean the 500 then yes I saw that monstrosity in Jan this year - apparently Hertz was renting it out to Oiros visiting the Bay Area.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Autos Thread
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2012 13:05 
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vina wrote:
Hmm. Economic Times says that Tata Motors & M&M posted strong sales.
Nano sales grew by 20% to 10475 units , despite it being petrol only.

Now Alto and others will need to start shivering in their dhotis, if newer models with a boot that can open, more plush interiors etc start coming out kaching-kaching from Tata. If the diesel engine version comes out, that will deliver a killer blow. Suzuki has not been able to engineer a diesel engine until now!


And they will regret killing the 800 so early, I feel once TATA Nano maintains above 15K level, suddenly the Maruti Suzuki bosses will begin to revive 800 suddenly.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Autos Thread
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2012 15:21 
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vina wrote:
Hmm. Economic Times says that Tata Motors & M&M posted strong sales.
Nano sales grew by 20% to 10475 units , despite it being petrol only.

Now Alto and others will need to start shivering in their dhotis, if newer models with a boot that can open, more plush interiors etc start coming out kaching-kaching from Tata. If the diesel engine version comes out, that will deliver a killer blow. Suzuki has not been able to engineer a diesel engine until now!

The 1.3l MJD used across most Indian diesel cars is also available as an option to Tata to derive a 3-pot 800 or 1000cc engine. They seem to be building one in-house though, and given their pedigree in Diesel engines, it might not be much of a threat in Urban areas. Rural areas will love a diesel however unrefined it is, as long as Tata uses enough damping to keep NVH low.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Autos Thread
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2012 15:36 
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Marten, TATA have come a long way, rather than the 1.3MJD, I think they will try and improve on the one they have in ACE/ Magic. It is taking time, but Indian Engineered products are getting better.

Marten, Any idea why T-bhp has not yet put up the March 2012 sales yet, there poster GTO is generally very good at it.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Autos Thread
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2012 21:34 
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Aditya_V wrote:
vina wrote:
Hmm. Economic Times says that Tata Motors & M&M posted strong sales.
Nano sales grew by 20% to 10475 units , despite it being petrol only.

Now Alto and others will need to start shivering in their dhotis, if newer models with a boot that can open, more plush interiors etc start coming out kaching-kaching from Tata. If the diesel engine version comes out, that will deliver a killer blow. Suzuki has not been able to engineer a diesel engine until now!


And they will regret killing the 800 so early, I feel once TATA Nano maintains above 15K level, suddenly the Maruti Suzuki bosses will begin to revive 800 suddenly.


Aditya ji, I dont think they ever fit the K-series engine into the 800, so the engine in the 800 is tech from way long back. I think people are more sensitive into the kind of engines their rath has and this IMHO (given equally cheap alternatives with k series type efficiency) will be a dampener for any re-introduction of 800 not to mention its 80's look.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Autos Thread
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2012 21:14 
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Aditya_V wrote:
Marten, TATA have come a long way, rather than the 1.3MJD, I think they will try and improve on the one they have in ACE/ Magic. It is taking time, but Indian Engineered products are getting better.

Marten, Any idea why T-bhp has not yet put up the March 2012 sales yet, there poster GTO is generally very good at it.


I guess still the sales figures of Hyundai etc. are not out yet with this being year end.

ACE/Magic uses a two cylinder version of the Indica 475DI engine whilst the rumoured nano diesel mill is a CRDI one perhaps a derivative of their CR4 range. After teething troubles with the DiCOR, Tatas seems to have got their common rails right with the improved version CR4 doing pretty good. CR4 mill on Indica eV2, Indigo eCS and the new Sumo Gold seems pretty smooth (no turbo lag, low NVH, good response and mileage). The cab drivers who use it predominantly love it but complain that the cost of maintenance has gone up and can be repaired only by authorized service centers. Question is whether these CRDI can withstand the abuse that their 475DI engine typically can.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Autos Thread
PostPosted: 04 Apr 2012 15:30 
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Yogi G-> 800 has 80's look but remember the reason the 800, Wagon R, Alto etc were developed in the Japanese market is there is a separate category of cars in Japan below 666CC engine. I am sure Suzuki will be selling an updated design in Japan with less than 666 cc engine. Such a car can be easily customized for Indian requirements will plastics thrown in to match Nano pricing, but I doubt Maruti can match a Nano Diesel that quickly as the smallest Diesel they can think of buying is the one in BEAT, if GM is willing to sell them. Don't think FIAT have 800-900 CC Diesel engine available.

GM took the 1256 CC Diesel Jointly Developed with FIAT and took a Cylinder off and sold it in the Beat, I don't think Suzuki has the tech in Diesel engines.

So if TATA bring a Diesel NANO they would be India's No.1 Manufacturer in terms of numbers and it is a Big if because Diesel Engines nobody really has Developed small displacement Diesel engine with enough power and still be light enough. Currently, 3 wheelers and Ace, Magic run on 12 HP and 16HP engines which may not be good enough for passenger cars. Enfield 400CC 6.5 BHP bullet was a disaster because of its poor Power to Weight ratio. I believe it was the world's only Diesel 2 Wheeler ever sold.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Autos Thread
PostPosted: 04 Apr 2012 15:48 
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^^
NVH would be a major issue as well. They'd have to insulate the vehicle well and bring external noise down as well. No one is going to touch the diesel nano if it sounds like Ace or Magic.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Autos Thread
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2012 01:33 
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Daimler to Debut India-Made Trucks by September http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303425504577351690175701270.html

Quote:
ORAGADAM, India – Daimler AG DAI.XE -1.00%will start selling trucks from a €700 million factory in India by September, with plans to eventually make as many as 70,000 trucks a year as it attempts to get a bigger foothold in this growing market for commercial vehicles.The plant, spread over 400 acres in Oragadam near the southern port city of Chennai, will start with a capacity of 36,000 vehicles a year and employ 1,400 workers, Daimler Chairman Dieter Zetsche said. The factory is one of only three Daimler plants worldwide where trucks as well as their engines and transmissions will be produced at the same location. Local sales of trucks and buses in India rose 18% in the financial year that ended on March 31 to 809,532 vehicles, even as most other segments witnessed weak demand due to expensive loans and higher fuel costs. "India's truck market is one of the largest and fastest-growing in the world," Mr. Zetsche said. "Now at number three, it will climb to number two worldwide by the end of this decade. So in the long run, you could say, 'if you don't make it here, you won't make it at all'… a strong position in the global truck market requires a strong position in India." Daimler plans to have about 70 retail outlets in 12 states across India by the end of 2012 to sell the trucks. This will be expanded to more than 100 locations by 2014. Daimler has been assembling its Mercedes-Benz Actros brand of heavy-duty trucks as well as buses at a factory near the western city of Pune since November 2007. The plant is owned by Daimler's passenger vehicle unit, Mercedes-Benz India Pvt. Ltd., which also assembles C-Class, E-Class and S-Class luxury sedans.
Marc Llistosella, managing director and chief executive of Daimler India Commercial Vehicles Pvt. Ltd.,
said the company is planning to shift the assembly of the Actros trucks to the Oragadam factory.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Autos Thread
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2012 21:19 
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This will be seen very carefully by the US truck makers in detroit. They will see this new world class output of trucks in India as a great competitor since they will never be able to match in costs.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Autos Thread
PostPosted: 20 Apr 2012 06:41 
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AMW (backed by Essar group) is another co which has been able to mix and match global suppliers and is producing good looking trucks in India.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Autos Thread
PostPosted: 20 Apr 2012 10:32 
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Acharya wrote:
This will be seen very carefully by the US truck makers in detroit. They will see this new world class output of trucks in India as a great competitor since they will never be able to match in costs.

Dunno about that. Trucks in Indian context are very different from trucks in the US context. In India, a truck is a vehicle that looks like this:
Image

In the US, a truck is a vehicle that looks like this:
Image

They're two completely different classes of vehicles.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Autos Thread
PostPosted: 20 Apr 2012 15:19 
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The latter is a pick-up truck which eventually came to be called as truck? Incidentally the larger ones are also called trucks in US.

What I never was able to understand in India was the difference between a lorry and a truck. :-)


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Autos Thread
PostPosted: 20 Apr 2012 15:30 
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Lorry is Queen's english. Truck is American.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Autos Thread
PostPosted: 20 Apr 2012 18:18 
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Yogi_G wrote:
The latter is a pick-up truck which eventually came to be called as truck? Incidentally the larger ones are also called trucks in US.

In my neck of the woods, the bigger trucks are called "semis" i.e. short for semi-trailer truck or sometimes "tractor-trailers"
Image

They do call smaller vehicles as trucks, but they'd be more like "U-Haul Truck", "Moving Truck" etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Autos Thread
PostPosted: 20 Apr 2012 23:52 
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ArmenT wrote:
Yogi_G wrote:
The latter is a pick-up truck which eventually came to be called as truck? Incidentally the larger ones are also called trucks in US.

They do call smaller vehicles as trucks, but they'd be more like "U-Haul Truck", "Moving Truck" etc.


Some of them have kitchen, shower and space for bed. Still truck quality in india have improved pretty good in last few years.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Autos Thread
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2012 20:00 
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Location: वही सबसे तेज चलता है, जो अकेला चलता है
Visited Maruti Showroom today to check out "Ertiga". Beautiful SUV. Going by the interest in the vehicle by public, It is going to be a star performer for MUL and would give Innova a run for the money. The vehicle is going to have a long waiting period.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Autos Thread
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2012 01:28 
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Vikas Raina, bookings are in excess of 15,000 per TBHP!

Aditya_V: Are you following the March sales thread there?


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Autos Thread
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2012 08:23 
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Innova needed a good kick in the pants. for 5 yrs now I have seen no change for the better in this vehicle, its just a outdated platform being used like a cash cow for lack of anything better and because the Tata offering is costlier.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Autos Thread
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2012 09:36 
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ArmenT wrote:
Acharya wrote:
This will be seen very carefully by the US truck makers in detroit. They will see this new world class output of trucks in India as a great competitor since they will never be able to match in costs.

Dunno about that. Trucks in Indian context are very different from trucks in the US context. In India, a truck is a vehicle that looks like this:

They're two completely different classes of vehicles.

Looks like you live in the mid west, where it is called semis. Navistar. plant


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Autos Thread
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2012 15:31 
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Acharya wrote:
Looks like you live in the mid west, where it is called semis. Navistar. plant

Actually I live on the west coast. Funny you should mention Navistar though. I looked up their website and guess what? They have a joint venture to manufacture trucks in India with Mahindra!
http://www.mahindranavistar.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Autos Thread
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2012 21:14 
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Marten wrote:
Aditya_V: Are you following the March sales thread there?


Yup saw the Thread there, some surprises there, FORD, GM not doing so well. NISSAN doing well, Honda shipping 6000 brios.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Autos Thread
PostPosted: 23 Apr 2012 05:28 
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ArmenT wrote:

Actually I live on the west coast. Funny you should mention Navistar though. I looked up their website and guess what? They have a joint venture to manufacture trucks in India with Mahindra!
http://www.mahindranavistar.com/

I saw the navistar in the Indian roads few mths back. Very impressive and I IDed it that it was nav.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Autos Thread
PostPosted: 23 Apr 2012 11:31 
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I dont think M&Navistar is doing very well in desh. However, AM typically/rightly mentions that establishing market share is a marathon. There is a stiff competition though.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Autos Thread
PostPosted: 23 Apr 2012 11:52 
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VikasRaina wrote:
Visited Maruti Showroom today to check out "Ertiga". Beautiful SUV. Going by the interest in the vehicle by public, It is going to be a star performer for MUL and would give Innova a run for the money. The vehicle is going to have a long waiting period.

Hmm.. I had this vehicle on my radar. So looks like, better to wait for some time and then plan on it.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Autos Thread
PostPosted: 23 Apr 2012 13:31 
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VikasRaina wrote:
Visited Maruti Showroom today to check out "Ertiga". Beautiful SUV. Going by the interest in the vehicle by public, It is going to be a star performer for MUL and would give Innova a run for the money. The vehicle is going to have a long waiting period.


No way can the ertiga cruise on highways, it will be a great city commuting vehicle. I know you dint imply that its in the same class as the innova but people looking for people transports that can fly on the highways will not be too keen on the ertiga.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Autos Thread
PostPosted: 23 Apr 2012 13:37 
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define cruise. the innova with passengers manages upto around 100kmph which is the max one can drive safely on nhai roads. taxiwallahs and aggressive drivers push it to 120, where it gets distinctly buzzy and lacks t:w ratio.

the ertiga should be able to a consistent 100...any 90hp car with 1.2-1.3 engine can manage that?

its the ideal size, not a potato sack like the Innova and bigger than the Jazz .... plus with diesel option, it will sell strongly.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Autos Thread
PostPosted: 23 Apr 2012 13:45 
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Singha wrote:
define cruise. the innova with passengers manages upto around 100kmph which is the max one can drive safely on nhai roads. taxiwallahs and aggressive drivers push it to 120, where it gets distinctly buzzy and lacks t:w ratio.

the ertiga should be able to a consistent 100...any 90hp car with 1.2-1.3 engine can manage that?

its the ideal size, not a potato sack like the Innova and bigger than the Jazz .... plus with diesel option, it will sell strongly.


The innova with a full load can stay at 100 comfortable on NHAI, but the ertiga with a full load will definitely struggle to maintain that speed. Its definitely not designed for the highways but more of a city commuter, IMHO. But its a beauty in its quite lonely class.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Autos Thread
PostPosted: 28 Apr 2012 10:56 
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Ertiga seems to be a class/segment of its own. The way I see it as a station wagon with an option to seat 2 more on a need basis. For that load, the p/w or T/w ratio for Ertiga is good enough considering that the new Swift platform uses very lighter material while the same engine with VGT does it work on the heavier SX4D , Manza and Linea. Having driven a Manza and SX4d (which is better tuned than the other), it should be able to do 120 NHAI with 5 people and 100.

Would also think that since the new Swift platform's Chasis for Europe is NCAP 5* compliant, Ertiga would be safer than Innova whose safety record is suspect. My friend's new Swift met with a major accident, rammed head on by a lorry at 70Kmph and both escaped with minor injuries. The car took the hit and was repaired due to modular/collapsible construction.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Autos Thread
PostPosted: 28 Apr 2012 12:31 
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Japanese and SK passenger cars never had a great in-house diesel engine. No wonder they have resorted to getting it either wholesale (the 'national engine' - Fiat 1.3 MJD sold under various monikers) or collaboration like the Hyundai crdi engine with Detroit Diesel. Its a bit weird because they do have some excellent diesel truck engines - Hino, Isuzu etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Autos Thread
PostPosted: 28 Apr 2012 13:24 
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Exception being Toyota which has a good Diesel for Innova , Fortuner, Etios. Even the corolla has the 1.4 Diesel of Etios with VGT.

Dont forget even the qualis would have been a flop if it had been a Petrol.

Honda offcourse, does not seem to know even to buy a Diesel and fit in.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Autos Thread
PostPosted: 28 Apr 2012 20:38 
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Honda has a new range of diesels available in the euro market. But, for some reason, they are very slow to react to indian market conditions. I wonder if there is a disconnect in decision making. HQ not approving the requests may be? Also, in general, the quality of honda decision making process in the last 5-10 years has seen a steady erosion of "strategic vision" for what Honda stands for. The new range of vehicles (including Civic, CRV, accord, hybrids etc) lack the emotional component to attract buyers...


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