Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

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Prem
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

Post by Prem »

Haji Mastan Kanha Ho Tum
Expats facing special gold scans at major Indian airports
NRIs wearing gold jewellery valued at over Dh1,400 now being asked to pay tax
Travellers to India are being searched for gold ornaments by customs officials at major airports across the country.An Indian law dating back to the 1960s states that those travelling to India are supposed to pay tax for carrying any gold valued at more than Rs20,000 (Dh1,379).What’s strange is that a man is allowed to carry 50 per cent less gold in comparison to a female traveller, on his person as jewellery.Indian airports have been conducting stringent checks on most travellers and asking them to shell out duty for any gold ornaments over the stipulated amount.Last week two Indian men, including a groom who was on his way to India for his wedding, was stopped at the airport by customs.“I had to negotiate and argue with them for almost 45 minutes to an hour,” said Santosh from Bangalore.According to Sreedhar MK from Thrissur, popularly known as the gold district in Kerala, an Indian woman on an average wears a gold chain weighing at least 16 to 25 grams.“With gold prices on the rise, any Indian women will end up paying customs duty at airports in India,” he said.Today’s value of gold is Dh187.50 for a gram and a 16 gram chain will cost Dh3,000.India’s Customs and Central Excise Rules 1967 stipulates that a man travelling to India can bring gold ornaments worth Rs 10,000 while a woman is allowed to bring gold worth a maximum of Rs 20,000.Customs duty will be charged on additional value.There has also been a reported increase in gold “smuggling” into India.Earlier this month, customs officials at Chennai in southern India seized three kgs of gold concealed in baby diapers.The passenger, an Indian resident flying from Paris was arrested following the seizure.On April 21, customs officials at Ahmedabad airport in Gujarat arrested a Mumbai resident and seized 1.2 kilograms of gold. The passenger was travelling from UAEMiddle East
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

Post by Vipul »

Forget twin deficits, India has quadruplet deficits to worry about.

Predictably, there was intense debate about what the Standard & Poor’s (S&P) recent step to lower the outlook on India’s long-term sovereign debt rating meant for the country and its economic fortunes. The general consensus is that it serves, at best, as a timely wake-up call for the government and policymakers, since much of what S&P flagged isn’t really new. The Reserve Bank of India and, indeed, the finance minister have been talking of the need for credible fiscal consolidation as the most important task if the fisc is to be fixed.

However, even if we choose to keep the S&P warnings aside, the government has enough to grapple with if the economy is to be brought back on track. Already, the latest purchasing managers’ index (PMI) print indicates that while the economy is still expanding, there are major input and output cost pressures, indicating that while the RBI did stick its neck out and cut the repo rate by a deep 50 basis points (something critics have frowned upon), there are risks associated with it since inflationary pressures are still intense. Clearly, RBI has put growth concerns above inflation this time round, and the results will have to be assessed in detail over the next few months.


Citi India’s Rohini Malkani, in the group’s latest report on the economy, says the India story has likely de-rated if one takes these four deficits in conjunction. Reuters

However, experts and policywatchers are talking of not just the twin deficits – the current account deficit at around 4 percent of GDP and the fiscal deficit at 5.9 percent of GDP – but a ‘quadruplet’ deficit problem, adding the governance deficit and liquidity deficit to the list.

Citi India’s Rohini Malkani, in the group’s latest report on the economy, says the India story has likely de-rated if one takes these four deficits in conjunction. The self-inflicted governance deficit that the government is now grappling with – with policy paralysis being one of the most commonly used phrases in business circles – and a liquidity deficit that is cyclical but threatens to turn structural is threatening to compound the problem.

Says Malkani: “There is no simple fix: the vicious deficit mix is feeding on and across itself. The solution lies in, first, an aggressive thrust on fiscal consolidation, policy and execution reform; and second, India needs a bit of luck on lower oil prices, weaker inflation and stronger capital flows. It needs a mix of both to regain its lustre – and at least one of the two to maintain its current momentum.”

Malkani’s report says the growth slowdown is bottoming, now clearly forecasting 6.5-7 percent growth, rather than the 8-8.5 percent average of 2000-10. On other macro variables, Citi’s forecasts for the financial year ending March 2013 (FY13) factor the current account deficit staying at 4 percent of GDP, the fiscal deficit at 8.4-8.8 percent of GDP (factoring in the Centre’s deficit at 5.5 percent, and including state electricity board losses), and inflation (WPI) averaging 7.4 percent in FY13 (estimated) versus 8.8 percent the previous year.

Growth expectations have been moderated even by RBI, which says in its policy statement of April that the trend rate of growth – the non-inflationary growth rate – has moderated from its pre-crisis peak.

While S&P had said that India’s high fiscal deficit and heavy debt burden remain the most significant constraints to its sovereign rating, the Citi analysis says the debt indicators are high, but provide some comfort.

India’s total debt works out to 136 percent of GDP, up from 113 percent in the early 1990s. That is due to a sharp rise in private debt from 30 percent of GDP earlier to 65 percent currently. Much of this is domestic private debt, reflecting an increase in bank credit/corporate debt. Public debt, on the other hand, has moderated from 78.8 percent in the early 1990s to 71 percent currently. “However, this has happened largely because of high nominal GDP growth and would break down if growth collapses and goes back to levels seen in the 70s,” Citi notes.

The growing fiscal deficit and, consequently, large government borrowings have also resulted in liquidity pressures. “Since June 2011, the liquidity deficit has increased beyond the RBI’s comfort zone of 1 percent of net demand and time liabilities (NDTL), touching a high of Rs 200 crore ($40 mn) in March 2012. While trends have eased somewhat to Rs120 crore ($23 mn) currently, the deficit remains out of the RBI’s stipulated range,” the report says.

But the biggest problem and the top priority would have to be the governance deficit. Experts, economists and policy watchers agree that the lack of decisiveness in policy and the shilly-shallying on key policy matters by a weakened UPA government are causing enormous economic damage. Add to that comments by key officials like Kaushik Basu that reforms will get a big push only after the 2014 general elections, and you have an economy in limbo.

The state elections results have further weakened the ruling Congress, there is little sign of big-ticket reforms and worse, there are signs that foreign investors are seriously concerned about the Union Budget 2012’s provisions on GAAR and retrospective taxation. Chances are, that the next Budget would be populist, coming as it does a year before the general elections. What impact that will have on the fisc is anybody’s guess.

“Policy uncertainty and the gaping governance deficit are issues that need to be resolved first and foremost – and would, in fact, be imperative for other macro parameters to be corrected,” says Malkani in her analysis.

Only a credible mix of policy initiatives, coupled with strong signals that the government values stability of policy, can undo some of the damage which it has suffered of late on the credibility front. Otherwise, India may well have to pare its growth estimates further. A vicious circle is staring the economy in the face.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

Post by gunjur »

gakakkad wrote:@ Gunjur the article is a piss-ops against Gujarat...
Might very well be so. Actually i had seen a programme on breakout nations in ndtv profit. Then since i saw this article, hence posted here.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

Post by gakakkad »

no problem Gunjur.. the guy edited the article thereafter ... re-read the article now and compare is with the older one that you have posted ...he changed it ..
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

Post by Prem »

http://profit.ndtv.com/News/Article/sov ... ne--303464
Sovereign Wealth Fund: India already has one!
The BSE PSU index has a market cap of Rs 15,57,639 crore. This is about 25 per cent of the total value of shares listed on the exchange.• The government ownership in these entities is about 70 per cent of the value or Rs 10,90,347 crore. This is the value of the government ownership in these companies which is actually sovereign wealth. Thus, the value of India’s sovereign wealth fund with assets listed on stock exchanges is $ 205bn. This does not include unlisted public sector enterprises or smaller public sector companies. Hence, the value of India's sovereign wealth could be much more than this. • Technically, the government can transfer $ 205bn worth of equity ownership into a sovereign wealth fund. It can appoint professional managers and the finance ministry can keep an oversight.• The government need not sell any asset. An intention to convert government ownership into a sovereign fund would push India’s sovereign rating up. It will make India's finances look healthy. India would then have access to cheap debt if it discloses the ownership of public sector enterprises as a liquid asset.• Such a fund could also be used for meeting programmes that do public good. Such a fund can pay for creating social and physical infrastructure, run government sponsored food programmes or minimum wage guarantee schemes. Currently, these assets are controlled by central government ministries that may not want to give up control. Most of the public sector enterprises function as departments under respective ministries. Activist institutional investors are forcing shareholder friendly actions like the one taken by UK’s The Children International Fund in Coal India. However, to create sovereign wealth, India needs political will more than money
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

Post by harbans »

Lots of money is moving out of the stock markets and making it's way into the real estate market. Prices have jumped sky high in places like Gurgaon in the last 8 months.

The GoI does not seem to realize the role that market sentiment plays. GST/ retail reforms have to be carried out and pushed through at the minimum possibly by next month itself. 2014 the Govt cannot pass a budget, the 2013 one, GOI will be under pressure and succumb to passing a populist kind of budget with freebies. Sentiment is clearly bang on the buck, that the GOI is incapable of passing much needed reforms.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

Post by Singha »

does that mean stock market is expected to slowly tank until 2014 and presents a periodic avg buying opportunity in good cos?
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

Post by abhischekcc »

Singha, best to treat equity like bonds right now. Look at their dividends only, not growth opportunity in prices, to determine right entry price.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

Post by Theo_Fidel »

This POL deficit is most worrying. In dollar & quantity terms we now import roughly 50% of what USA imports now. Without the GDP to carry it. pursued

We need a crash program to eliminate/reduce oil import. If Brazil can largely eliminate oil imports we should be able to as well.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

Post by Kakkaji »

what-slowdown-fdi-inflows-hits-record-50-billion
NEW DELHI: Undeterred by a slowdown in growth, India's foreign direct investment flow touched a record $50 billion in 2011-12, the highest since investments were opened up in 1996.

"In 2011-12, we received the highest ever FDI since we opened up in 1996. It is close to $50 billion," FDI in India dipped 25% to $19.43 billion in 2010-11, as against $25.83 billion in the previous fiscal.

The minister said that despite the negativity that it being generated about India's investment climate, the country continued to attract foreign investments. "Contrary to the impression that has been created, we have remained one of the first three attractive FDI destinations of the world," Sharma said.

India is ranked third in the list of countries attracting most FDI, after China and the US.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

Post by Singha »

brazil has the luxury of massive land reserves and a low rural population(probably). it is very much a new world country - giant landmass, massive mineral and agricultural lands, low population.

apparently areas of land the size of major indian states are being cleared of amazonia every yr and thrown open to commercial and settler farmers.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

Post by BhairavP »

GAAR postponed by a year, and the onus of tax liability is on the tax authorities.
Also,a rollback of the excise duty on gold/jewellery.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

Post by Vinod Ji »

harbans wrote:Lots of money is moving out of the stock markets and making it's way into the real estate market. Prices have jumped sky high in places like Gurgaon in the last 8 months.
Strange I have a plot in Gurgaon in sector 28. Was thinking of putting on sale. Do you think it the right time to put it on sale?
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

Post by krishnan »

Yes...probably the right time....dont get too greedy :mrgreen:
Theo_Fidel

Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Singha wrote:brazil has the luxury of massive land reserves and a low rural population(probably). it is very much a new world country - giant landmass, massive mineral and agricultural lands, low population.

apparently areas of land the size of major indian states are being cleared of amazonia every yr and thrown open to commercial and settler farmers.
Good point.

But in Brazil the land is not all arable. In fact rainforest land by definition is non-arable. 2 feet under the lush jungle is actually leached sand and laterite, not dissimilar to beach sand or the Thar desert sands. Land clearing is mostly for wood harvest. By some estimates, while 62% of India is arable, only 7%-8% of Brazil is arable.

Only 8 Million hectares of land in Brazil grows sugarcane. Of which about 3-4 million is dedicated to Ethanol.

So it isn't completely out of the question for India with roughly 75 Million hectare of irrigated land alone and about 180 million Hectare of arable land. A conscious well funded effort could get us there. The problem is one of cost. Right now Sugar is more lucrative than Ethanol.

Industry wants Rs 35 per liter of Ethanol. GOI wants Rs 27 per liter so its tax revenue stream is not affected. This seems a particularly stupid argument to me. Yes, all the rest is taxes, don't ask. 1 Ton of sugar/molasses solids produces ~ 500 liters of Ethanol. So Sugar barons would get 500x27 = Rs 13,500 per ton. Not including processing costs. On international market Sugar is ~ $500 per ton. So Sugar barons would get ~ Rs 25,000 per ton. So you can see why the reluctance. Still molasses, 6%-10% of sugar harvest, is available and should be put to use for Ethanol.

If we did go to Sugar Ethanol for at least transportation/commerce, we need 1.5 (million barrels per day)x365x70 (liters petrol per barrel) ~ 40,000 Million liters ~ 40 Billion liters of Ethanol. Which would require 40 Billion/500 = 80 Million tons of Sugar/Molasses. BTW depending on year India produces 200-250 Million tons of sugar per year. Again not inconceivable.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

Post by gakakkad »

under urbanization is the biggest disaster for India.. 99% of amreeki population lives on 2% of its land area,, If we urbanise we ll be able to fit in all our population in 15-20% land area and provide them and have well spaced out cities...not as much free/space per city as in the US..but never the less enough ..
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

Post by Prem »

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/busi ... 030631.cms
Focus now on reviving the investment climate: Montek Singh Ahluwalia
:
What are the key reforms that the government should immediately undertake?

A: Let us distinguish between "reforms" , which mean changes in the policies or laws, and "executive action" which means taking decisions within the existing structure or system. Both are important, but for immediate effect right now, I would concentrate on executive actions. The most important area to act is making sure that implementation of large projects in the infrastructure sectors is accelerated . There are problems related to environment and forest clearances which could easily be speeded up. Some relate to resolving fuel supply problems for thermal power plants and dealing with domestic coal shortages and planning for coal imports. We currently have an environment in which the bureaucracy has become reluctant to take decisions that may become controversial. But mechanisms can be devised to overcome this.

We have identified many of these problems and steps are being taken to address them. I hope this effort will gain momentum. Another important area of executive action relates to macro-economic management. We have set a target for reducing the fiscal deficit and we must ensure that it is met. This is not a reform - it is simply doing what we have said we will do. That may include some difficult things, like for example the adjustment in fuel prices, which the Prime Minister himself mentioned recently. Apart from this, there are "reforms" we must undertake . These don't have an impact on the economy immediately - their impact is felt over time, but they are also important in the short run because they affect the investment climate, which is depressed at present. There are several such reforms in the pipeline. FDI in retail is an area where the government has said they are working to build a consensus. There are very important bills in Parliament, relating to banking and insurance which would send a good signal. Most important of all is the GST, which would be a major game changer if we can get a consensus among the states. And don't forget Aadhar which is rolling out very well and can be a game changer in delivery of critical services and benefits.

Q:What are the important reforms in your view?

A: There are several reforms in the pipeline. FDI in retail is an area where the government has said they are working to build a consensus. There are very important Bills in Parliament, relating to Banking and Insurance which would send a good signal. Most important of all is the GST which would be a major game changer if we can get a consensus among the states. And don't forget the roll out of Aadhar, which is proceeding very well and could help to improve the efficiency of the delivery system. In fact it could help bring about a shift from subsidizing goods to cash transfers which many states want and which would greatly empower the beneficiaries. There are many other reforms and we will lay out a whole agenda in the Twelfth Plan.
: Multilateral agencies have said that India must fast-track reforms to boost growth. What would be the impact on growth if there is no movement on reforms?

A:Those judgments are based on what is needed over the medium term and I agree that we need an extensive reform agenda. We are working on such an agenda for the Twelfth plan and I am sure once the Plan is unveiled, these agencies will applaud it, and simply encourage us to implement it.

Q: What are the growth prospects for the Indian economy? Do you think 7-7.5% is the new normal for India and the expectations for double-digit expansion should be abandoned for now?

A: We had never targeted a double digit growth rate. Our target for the Eleventh Plan was 9 percent and we have achieved about 8 percent. This included some depressed years for the global economy, so you could say the new normal with good economic management, is around 8 %. I emphasize "with good economic management" because the new normal is not something we can expect to happen whatever we do! Poor management can easily bring us down to 6 % or even lower. What I am saying is that we can do 8% with reasonably good management. We can do better with a stronger domestic effort and if the world economy recovers quickly. We will outline the nature of that effort and our growth prospects in the Twelfth plan in a couple of months.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

Post by harbans »

Strange I have a plot in Gurgaon in sector 28. Was thinking of putting on sale. Do you think it the right time to put it on sale?
Don't sell it off. You are sitting on a Gold mine here. If you can construct and sell even better. Even studio apts at 6k/sqft in Aug last..are 15k/sqft in just 8 months in sectors far less central than 28. Investment choices have narrowed and a lot of money is chasing real estate in key localities in Gurgaon and new or developing projects there..so expect prices going up. If the GoI does manage to initiate policy reforms like GST, Retail etc..investment would be more widespread..till then a few will make good money in real estate escalations.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

Post by Vinod Ji »

harbans wrote:
Strange I have a plot in Gurgaon in sector 28. Was thinking of putting on sale. Do you think it the right time to put it on sale?
Don't sell it off. You are sitting on a Gold mine here..
I was offered one lac a meter 9 months back n now it is 90k. Have no intention to go back n settle. With rupee expected to 57-59 range in 2013, still will give me the same advise? Harbans you talk like you are local in gurgaon? any advise is appericiated. :)
krishnan wrote:Yes...probably the right time....dont get too greedy :mrgreen:
Krishnan Will keep it in mind ;)

Any Local BRite in Gurgaon will like to chip in this, Please?
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

Post by harbans »

Vinod ji, i am and a stones throw from Sector 28 at Phase 1. No way Sector 28 plots are cheaper than they were 9 months ago. What you are being offered is complete peanuts. Cross check..my advice. If you can..build up 2-3 floors on say 1700 sqft, each goes over 2-2.5c that area. Check out any real estate website. This place prices are rocketing. More will be OT here..so if you want to know more put your queries up in Nukkad..IMO this is due to the lack of an investment climate being gradually prepared by this Govts economic policies. Putting forward taxes in retrospect does no good to a negative investment rating. This FM is not a reformist one. He has spent his entire career keeping head below the parapet and being a FM during the License Raj period. It's inevitable the squeeze had to come in. Expect more money to flow into the real estate markets Gurgaon types and pump up values. But do verify independently IMO.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

Post by vina »

Black humor is probably the only thing that can be had from this Govt's economic policies and management. It has been simply abysmal and is stuck like a deer in the headlights , frozen. It has no political back for anything, no power to do anything, cannot do anything and is so instinctively anti reform (esp Pranab Mukherjee and Sonia) and can do nothing other than welfare dole out and unproductive expenditure and subsidies in the hope of buying votes.

Take for eg, the reforms pending . GST , Pension Reforms, and the serious reforms needed in the subsidy of fuel and fertilizers. The funny thing is the opposition , BJP is on board, but the Govt doesn't have the numbers (thanks to Mamata) to get these reforms through. It is so funny that it hurts when I laugh. Is Mamata a part of the ruling alliance or an "opposition ruling the country".

Delhi , sure lives in an alternate universe so far removed from reality. Just like while the rest of India has a modicum of civility, ethics and values and Delhi with it's toxic back-stabbing political culture and it's rowdy civic and street culture is plainly on opposite poles, so too on the economy. When the country is heading towards an economic crisis thanks to the idiocy of the Govt in Delhi and are so concerned about it, Delhi continues to live in an alternate world. Notice the key concern in Delhi these days coming out of the Dilli based electronic media , much of which are wholly unwatchable (like Undie TV and Times Now for instance) , it is some bizzare politicking about the Presidential election! Now who TF cares about a rubber stamp president that X or Y gets elected to in the Indian system!

The reforms and key constitutional amendments cannot get done thanks to Mamta's recalcitrance and the "need to keep allies together" to get a Kangress nominee elected. That is simply so stunning. What will person rubber stamped as a "Kangress nomninee" sitting in that office be able to do really ! What could Prathiba Patil do of any consequence and who cares.

Talk of Neroes fiddling while Rome burns! The entire political system seems to have lost it , with the toxic political maneuvering and back stabbing and idiotic politics becoming an end in itself and the prime raison d etre , the be all and end all of everything.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

Post by gakakkad »

if we framed proper policy India would have even been cheaper..granted amreeka printing notes will affect us adversely ..

panda is not going to like this .. :mrgreen:
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

Post by vina »

Far From Home. reminder on Bengal's Home Truths
Chennai, May 8: Nine young men said to be from Murshidabad have been caught allegedly robbing a jewellery showroom in Tamil Nadu — their hunt for the pot of gold 2,000km from home retelling the tragedy of Bengal and reminding Mamata Banerjee of the pressing need for jobs.

One instance of a botched-up theft cannot be held up as a barometer of the decline of a state as populated and diverse as Bengal. But the circumstances leading up to the alleged crime and a somewhat similar incident in March suggest southern India has emerged as the poor man’s El Dorado for desperate youths hailing from Bengal who see little opportunity or avenue for employment back home.

An undeniable — and heart-wrenching — testimony is the departure of thousands of youths in what can only be called labour wagons from the outskirts of Calcutta to southern India every weekend — a stunning reversal from the 1950s and 1960s when educated south Indians used to flock to the eastern city in search of white-collar jobs.

The thwarted robbery in Dharmapuri, nearly 2,000km from Murshidabad from where the suspects are said to have started out, also underscored how unfamiliar the youths were to modern-day security devices common in southern Indian shops.

Police said the nine youths — all in their 20s — used tried and tested tactics of jumping from terrace to terrace and slicing through a window grille with a gas cutter to enter the five-storeyed showroom on Sunday night.

However, they were unaware that sensors installed in the shop were sending text-message alerts to the owner while a window grille was being broken open.

Additional deputy superintendent Saravanan said the owner had installed sensors on all the doors and windows on police advice after a spate of jewellery thefts in the state. “The shop had more than Rs 5 crore worth of gold and diamonds,” he said.

When the owner received the SMS alert around midnight, he called police and rushed to the shop with his managers and other staff.

The police said the group had come over from Murshidabad only to rob stores and had confessed to cleaning out a cellphone shop of Rs 25 lakh worth of handsets in Dharmapuri a few days ago. The alleged thieves had rented rooms to carry out a recce, the police said.

Officers identified the nine youths as Ayush, Mohammed Yusuf, Shankar Mondal, Mithun Mondal, Akthar, Shafiq, Sheikh Fakruddin, Mohammed Feroz and Mohammed Rafiq.

“Since they claimed they were from Bengal’s Murshidabad district and their modus operandi matched a similar heist in Tiruppur in February, we are probing a possible link,” Saravanan said.

A Tamil Nadu police team had arrested three persons from Farakka, Murshidabad, in March in connection with the Tiruppur robbery, in which a gang stole jewellery worth Rs 14 crore after cutting through the terrace grille.

The police suspect that a single mastermind could be behind the two gangs and are trying to track him from the call details of the nine.

It has not yet been established beyond doubt if the nine are indeed from Murshidabad, although some officers said voter cards with addresses in the Bengal district had been found in the rooms. In Kerala, some cases have been reported where infiltrators from Bangladesh claimed they hailed from Bengal.

Kerala, a state that sends many youths to the Gulf to toil but draws innumerable construction workers from other states to plug the sweat deficit, has around 10 lakh labourers from the east, mostly from Bengal.

Several migrant labourers are often accused of local crimes. As the labourers enjoy little political protection away from home, some feel the police sometimes slap unsolved crimes on them to clear the backlog. If alleged gangs like the one suspected to be from Murshidabad seek a hunting ground in the south, the migrant labourers may have to bear the brunt of any backlash.

What is undeniable is that nearly one lakh people from Murshidabad are working as masons and labourers in the southern Indian states.

“The reason is purely economical. A mason in Murshidabad will get Rs 150 per day but he may not get work every day. In Calcutta, he might earn Rs 200. But in Tamil Nadu, the same mason earns Rs 300 per day while the rate is about Rs 400 in Kerala,” said Majid Khan, 40, a resident of Naoda, who has worked in Tamil Nadu, Kerala and Karnataka as a mason for 15 years. Majid’s son Musafir Khan is now working as a mason in Chennai.

Khalil Sheikh, 22, is a labourer in Bangalore, along with several other villagers of Gangadhari in Naoda. “I will not get more than Rs 100 in Murshidabad. In Calcutta I might get Rs 150. But in places like Bangalore, I am earning Rs 250 to Rs 300 per day,” Khalil said this evening.

The chief of the panchayat samity of Naoda, Abdul Bari Mollah, said something that should make chief minister Mamata sit up.

“The district (Murshidabad) doesn’t have any industry except bidi factories. As there is no industry, there are no jobs. Also, there is no university and the number of school dropouts is high. So, there is a tendency to go for menial jobs in other states,” said Mollah.
Those are truly mind boggling numbers and to think this is from W.Bengal alone. Add up , UP , Bihar and Assam and Orissa, it must be truly massive.

Imagine, a backwater like Dharmapuri , not even historically the richer , more prosperous and fertile part of the state drawing in such kind of folks. The commies and the JNU farts have literally ground West Bengal to dust and whatever is left, Mamata seems set to accomplish by grinding it to fine powder.
sum
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

Post by sum »

The commies and the JNU farts have literally ground West Bengal to dust and whatever is left, Mamata seems set to accomplish by grinding it to fine powder.
:-o
Theo_Fidel

Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Wern't there several stone throwing incidents at Railways linked to such youths in TN recently. several people were injured as well.
-------------------------------------------------

When I visited the Chennai Metro construction sites and the Chennai airport site 6 months ago, the vast majority of laborers were from Northern India. Not a word of Tamilzh was spoken! Felt kinda odd. They are however cheap labor. The Maistry told me that the Pay was Rs 3000 per month. For this the workers worked daily 12 hour shifts, 7 days a week. Every 2 months they got 2 weeks off to go home.

It is kinda sad but this is how nations get built. I for one am glad to have them. Only a tiny minority misbehave.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

Post by gakakkad »

10 years ago most labourers in Guj used to be from mp and rajashthan...carpenters and artisans from raj were frequently found.. today large number of them are from north .. the rajasthanis who were carpenters 10-15 years ago now own furniture business ... there employees tend to be from up/bihar..

however the problem is that up/bihar/wb are massively overpopulated... i am not sure there would always be enough jobs for all of them..
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

Post by Suraj »

I'm just happy that the migrant population is not facing any notable chauvinistic response from the local population. It seems there are enough jobs going around in the southern states to employ both the employable local population and the migrant workers willing to do the remaining jobs.

An exercise I've been contemplating is just how much BIMARU (perhaps with WB as well) depresses general socio-economic statistics. Once the base of Indian civilization millenia ago, these are now the lead weight preventing us from growing faster. Yes, there have been notable developments in some places, but not yet enough. Are there any existing databases that report all India and India-BIMARU data ?
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

Post by Gus »

I live in OMR where there are a LOT of houses being constructed. If I go up my roof, I can see at least a dozen around me at stone's throw. Most of the daily labor are folks from Bihar (judging from the little Bhojpuri I was exposed to while I lived in Jamshedpur). The skilled labor like electrician and plumber is still mostly Tamil. Most skilled granite work (grinding etc) are Rajasthanis though (I suspect they have a good reputation in marble and such stone work from way back, the ones I interacted know Tamil and have been here for many years). There are also a lot of Telugu folks (both house owners, family renters and room-sharing types), so much so that the local barber had to hire a telugu speaking barber to work part time at his shop to cater to these folks. Gemini tv runs there all the time, lol.

There is some amount of suspicion on these migrant workers. Crimes are blamed on them too easily and quickly, without proper investigation of facts. The vernacular media is quick to headline such incidents where even if the crime is at a investigation stage (migrant worker suspected, would be the words used). I would say that the migrants should be careful and avoid any confrontation because there is no shortage of mobs to vent fury.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

Post by member_20036 »

Yes there are lot of bengali migrants working in metro. There is lot of bengali migrant in sriperumbudur. Earliar more hindi voices were heard .now they have mostly silenced and bengali more heard now. Ironically these people only supported cpm.
However bengals asansol durgapur region has lot of migrant population but thats not enough to support them.
Again It is not just the migrants from bengal,huge contingent of bengali middle class and upper class visit chennai for treatment. Apollo nicely fleeces them.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

Post by Mahendra »

Wonder how many of these Bengalis are actually Bangladeshis
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

Post by Manu »

Actually a lot of them are from Bengal. This trend has been noticed in New Delhi as well. The source of domestic help used to be Bihar/Jharkhand. It is now almost 80% West Bengal/Jharkhand now (Biharis are very hard to find) and the Bengali contingent is bonafide Bengali (only in Noida and East Delhi do yo see many Bangladeshis). This further includes guards, drivers.

I don't think this is bad, there is dignity of labor and all that. But to think this is the State that led India's renaissance pre-independence.

If you go to the Andaman Prisons, the largest number of prisoner names you can count are from Punjab and Bengal.

However, all factories/Builders in Delhi/Punjab belt prize labor from Bihar above all states. They have a very good work ethic. And increasingly hard to come by because of the strong growth in Nitish led Bihar.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

Post by Manu »

Suraj wrote:I'm just happy that the migrant population is not facing any notable chauvinistic response from the local population.
Not that I want to start a controversy, but the shoe is now on the other foot, especially in Tamil Nadu.

Of the southern States, Karnataka and AP are the least Chauvinistic while Tamil Nadu is by far, the worst of the lot.

Link
In March this year, the Federation of Velachery Welfare Association (East) in Chennai asked its members not to rent out flats to bachelors, especially those from north India, leaving many harassed. This followed reported encounter killings where people from the north were shot dead by the police. “The public also has a responsibility in ensuring security,” says S. Kumara Raja, the association’s secretary. “We’re not against north Indians and it is just an advice, not a forceful order.”
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

Post by Gus »

I am guessing that in KA and AP, Hindi speaking would get you an identity that does not stand out. Even there, in rural areas I would guess there would be resentment on jobs lost to 'outsiders'.

All said and done, I would say that it is better than how it was before. Shopkeepers speak Hindi (or they themselves are migrants) to accommodate migrants. Remember, this is a state where Hindi words were tarred in railway stations etc.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

Post by krishnan »

A.P there were times when if i spoke in hindi i was treated like an untouchable...esp in shops...
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

Post by Yogi_G »

I know of incidents where software guys got slapped by auto fellows in Chennai for speaking to them in Hindi. But its better now these days. The Dravidian movement will slowly die out.

Meanwhile, some good(?) news,

Car sales up 3.4%, bikes 6.5%: SIAM

Now, how much of this is due to the pent up demand with higher interest rate regime until a few days back when RBI slashed rates?
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

Post by Advait »

Demographics is the mother of all politics. Once Tamils are reduced to a minority in Chennai and 2-3 other major TN cities, all this Tamil supremacism will fade away or become substantially weaker. The Indian State could have easily put down all this nonsense decades ago. Look at France, they have pretty much wiped out the regional languages by a policy of cultural genocide. I am not advocating that, but encouraging some "mixing" would have certainly helped.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

Post by Suraj »

Greater movement of people between state boundaries is economically beneficial in the long run as it will further homogenize the country, instead of perpetuating regional distinctions. Ease of movement is also an economic force multiplier, enabling people to easily act towards improving their circumstances, instead of being condemned to live where they were born and raised, even if that place provided no opportunities. It would follow the lines of the more homogenous national life in the US, and enable us to strengthen national unity in the long term. Some amount of initial opposition to newcomers is to be expected. Of course, some local social and cultural traditions will be lost in the process, but society is always characterized by change.
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Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

Post by Vipul »

Export and Import figures break-up for the month of April 2012.

During April 2012, engineering exports recorded a growth of 14.2 per cent at $5.2 billion, electronics exports grew 5.4 per cent to $0.6 billion; drugs and pharmaceutical exports rose 33 per cent to $1.1 billion, leather exports rose 3.2 per cent to $0.3 billion, exports of basic chemicals grew 11.4 per cent to $0.9 billion, marine product exports rose 21 per cent to $0.2 billion. On the other hand, exports of cotton yarn and fabric made-ups registered a negative growth of 20.4 per cent at $0.49 billion while gems and jewellery exports declined 25.7 per cent to $2.6 billion.

Import growth was led by coal imports, which rose 25.5 per cent to $1.2 billion, followed by machinery imports, which rose 14.9 per cent to $2.9 billion in April 2012. Import of petroleum, oil and lubricants grew 7 per cent to $13.9 billion in April while import of gold and silver was down 33 per cent year-on-year at $3.1 billion and imports of pearls and precious stones were down 63.3 per cent at $1.2 billion.
Theo_Fidel

Re: Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Little bit OT but if I may...
Advait wrote:Once Tamils are reduced to a minority in Chennai and 2-3 other major TN cities, all this Tamil supremacism will fade away or become substantially weaker.
Actually if you read the demographic records Tamils were technically a minority in Chennai at independence. It was Rajaji who campaigned to have Madras snuck into the rump Tamil state. You can see it in how the border between TN & Andhra was changed several times to move Nellore from TN to Andhra amongst other changes. The Telugu speakers in Chennai are longer term residents than Tamilzh speakers, who are actually the new comers. So lets not start this canard about demographic change. Chennai's actual demographic is to become more Tamilzh speaking.

The only city that has a trending non-Tamilzh demographic is Coimbatore. At some point soon it will be Malayalam speaking majority.

I'm not a big fan of cultural Homogeneity. It is unnecessary and even racist in many ways. Look at what the Hans did to their diversity. The Americans 'melted' into their pot due to active racist policies. Now that racism is not allowed, at least officially, USA to has diverged into multiple cultures. Americans mostly migrate for non0economic reasons. Often for a fresh start. There are entire towns in the South where English is no longer spoken for instance. Europeans with national boundaries to defend were able to stay more heterogeneous. I'm not impressed by a Hindi sign on a shop. It indicates nothing to me. If adopting a single language is a pre-req for economic success UP should be the wealthiest and the South the poorest, no.

I'm also not convinced on the wild migration being good for growth hypothesis. If that was true, Africa with no real borders will be the wealthiest, no or how about the peace and prosperity that has come from cutting off all contact with Central Asia or Afghanistan. Migration is a sign of economic failure. As a migrant I know this first hand. Migrants will never earn as much as native born or be able to accumulate wealth as well as the native born. It is best to stay put and make your state/city/country work. A country that has a lot of migrants destroys wealth, not accumulate it. It is also less efficient and horribly wasteful of human lives/investment.
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