Bharat Rakshak

I think china has had a NFU policy wrt non-nuclear states from day1, their policy against nuclear states has been a little ambiguous.

in any case, the only country they need to worry about is the US, which does not have any NFU policy against anyone, not even mexico or canada.

^^ old news

With all that is going on, I am beginning to wonder what kind of technologies China is willing to part with to arm Pakistan and NK.

Seems to me that nations will collaborate to checkmate China. To counter that either she has to take on the challenge herself or outsource the risk - which is what she has been doing. That loop is being closed and China will have to go it alone here on out.

I really think India NEEDS to do two things:

1) Float the idea of leasing parcels of sea that 'Nam and/or Philippines claim, for 50 years, and
2) Test a phataka.

Even after testing a phataka in 1998, we still need to test another phataka ?

This is First for India; good moves.. otherwise we have tendency not to interfere in others issues...

India steps into Philippines-China spat over South China Sea

These are fakes as they dont have tree branches and twigs

India to withdraw from oil exploration in SCS ?

Wonder why this has not made to headlines.

didn't see this image here before, a sneak peek at the chinese underground tunnel.

Maiden flight of the second plane of J20-2002, on May 16.

http://www.56.com/u89/v_NjgzNDE1ODI.html

these tunnels being very long would need special exhausts, usually mining tunnels have vertical shafts with a huge exhaust fan at the mouth, this is required for humans (miners) and machines working inside the tunnel to have sufficient fresh oxygen, if this exhaust fan fails, miners are on a clock (few hours) to evacuate

since the tunnel entrances are sealed, there should be a way for fresh oxygen circulation in the tunnel system, openings for incoming air as well as its exhaust much like HVAC in a large building

hydro carbons from the exhausts can be detected, and monitoring of air disturbances/artificial flows around mountain ranges with suspected tunnels is a good intelligence source, I believe US has sensitive hydrocarbon sensors

oh well, green vehicles can reduce this signature significantly

to put the lack of historical chinese naval might in context, around 1000 years before their famous eunuch admiral zheng he in the 15th century, the people of malaysia had sailed 4000km west, settled in madagascar island , today their language is malay based and 50% of gene pool is from malaysia. the kingdoms of calicut, Cholas, srivijaya, melaka, khmer, champa also had far more sea faring activity than the yellow sea hans. a thick network of shipping linked ASEAN to India.

chinese also have a habit of claiming every place zheng he visited paid tribute and accepted submission to the big panda, but in reality most places were just interested in trade and had nothing to fear from the big panda.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... 18-372082/

Chengdu J-20 could enter service by 2018 

Washington DC 8 hours ago Source:

The stealthy Chengdu J-20 fighter could enter operational service by early 2018 and join a rapidly improving Chinese military armed with long-range strike weapons, new unmanned air vehicles and command and control aircraft fleets, the US Department of Defense says in an annual assessment.

The J-20 is "still in a prototype phase," says David Helvey, the acting deputy assistant secretary of defense for East Asia for the US Department of Defense.

"So we'd like to be able to continue to monitor it--to continue monitor developments on that to understand exactly what China may intend to use it for, and I wouldn't want to speculate at this point for what those specific missions would be," he adds.

But the report itself says that the J-20 reflects "China's ambition to produce a fighter aircraft that incorporates stealth attributes, advanced avionics, and supercruise-capable engines

The first J-20 prototype started flight tests in January 2011 and a second example started flying earlier this month. But the US government is adamant that the aircraft will not enter frontline squadron service until much later this decade.

"We expect the J-20 to achieve an effective operational capability no sooner than 2018," Helvey says. "That reflects our judgment and interpretation of how far they are along in doing the research and development and flight testing of the prototypes," he adds.

Operational capability as the DoD defines it means that there should be enough aircraft, weapons and trained air crew to conduct real-world missions, Helvey says.

The DoD also believes that the Chinese have an interest in developing new unmanned aircraft.

"We know that China is interested in developing unmanned air systems, and they have in the past acquired a number of different types of UAVs," Helvey says. "This report doesn't make a net assessment between China's capabilities for unmanned air systems and US capabilities, but that is an area that China is interested in developing."

China has a number of unmanned aerial vehicles including the Israeli-made Israel Aerospace Industries Harpy and a number of domestic types.

Meanwhile, the People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) is not neglecting its long-range strike capabilities. The country is upgrading its Tupolev Tu-16 Badger-derived Xian B-6 bomber fleet with a new, longer-range variation, which will be armed with new long-range cruise missiles, the report says.

The Chinese are also developing several types of airborne early warning and control system (AWACS) aircraft. These include the Shaanxi Y-8 Moth, based on the Antonov An-12, and the KJ-2000, based on the Ilyushin IL-76 airlifter, the report says.

Meanwhile, China's navy is moving on getting its first aircraft carrier into service. The refurbished Soviet-built ship started sea trials last August, but it not yet operational.

"This aircraft [carrier] could become operationally available to China's navy by the end of this year," Helvey says. "But we expect it'll take several additional years for an air group to achieve a minimal operational capability aboard the aircraft carrier."

The report also indicates that China is probably designing and possibly building in own indigenous carriers.

While China's public statements on its defence budget about $106 billion for 2012, the DoD estimates that the Chinese will actually spend more than $180 billion.

Helvey says the DoD believe that many aspects of China's military modernization actually comes from different spending accounts rather than the main defence budget. Foreign acquisitions such as Russian-built fighters are counted the same way.

"For example, we think that some of their nuclear forces modernisation occurs off budget," he says. "So when you add all of that together, that helps us to develop, I think, a more accurate estimate of what the totality of the military expenditure is."

No use watching the first 8 minutes. The flight starts around 8 min 30 sec.

Takeoff with afterburner, unlike the last video I saw. Blue afterburner flame of the type I have seen only one one engine type.

Nosewheel lifts off 11 seconds after brakes off. Airborne in about 4 seconds after that.

Compare with LCA LSP 7. 14 seconds to nosewheel up and 16 seconds to lift off.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPt06YJy-ug

Why does the tail chute housing remain permanently open in all flights?

Need a base in Fiji

SO J-11 production is going full steam ahead? Does J-20 also use Al-31?

If you can show me photos of any other engine that produces that characteristic blue afterburner flame I would say that the J-20 uses something different. There is something unique about that mix of gases coming out the back of an Al 31 that creates that flame. I have never seen that with any other engine.

Hi Shiv, the Tu-22M's NK-25 engines also produce a blue flame. I believe it has got something to do with more efficient combustion with very little excess fuel being present in the flame-front, and a higher flame temperature.

Interesting. I have not seen that blue flame outside of Russian/Soviet aircraft. All Chinese aircraft that are known to use the Al-31, that is the J-10 and J-11 have that same blue flame.

The J-20 is likely to be using exactly that. In a sense the Chinese have been sensible. they have fixated on one proven engine, they are giving the Russians huge orders for the Al 31 while they try to clone it. And clone it they will, given time.

Logistically it makes good sense to standardise on single engine type for J-10 and J-20 , would go a long way for them and thats excellent thinking.

As far Al-31 although J-20 prototype are most certainly using AL-31 series engine but considering J-20 is a big aircraft it will be underpowered for production variant , I think eventually the Chinese will jump over to AL-31FM2 with 14.5 T of thrust thats 2T more thrust per engine or 4 T more thrust over AL-31F/J-20 series.

Another option is to jointly fund with Salut the more advanced AL-31FM3 vairant with 15.5 T of thrust , both these types are just plug and play replacement of AL-31F series needing no intake changes or with minor modification if at all but OEM insists no changes needed.

I think even if WS-10 gets developed it will continue to flounder on thrust and reliability front and would need longer gestation period spanning over decade to qualify as proven engine.

Another thing i have noticed is Chinese are not tinkering with Thrust Vectoring , i may be wrong but i think TVC ( 2D or 3D ) would need major changes in FCS and need elaborate flight testing program with Aerodynamics and Engine all working in tandem something the chinese might not have experience with and they are probably better of using engine and stealth and save TVC for some other day.

Well, the B-1B's F-101 turbofan also produces a blue flame, while the other engines like the F-414, for example, do not. I've discussed the blue vs yellow flame thing in a little more detail in the FAQ thread.

I agree with your point though. The Chinese appear to have made the sensible choice and stuck to using the proven Al-31 engine for at least the first few prototypes of this aircraft.

The blue flame of "perfect fuel-air mixtures" versus orange/yellow flame of sooty excess fuel mixtures is a well documented fact in science magazines, but to me it begs the question, why are most manufacturers of engines in the world making "inefficient" afterburner designs when afterburning itself is one of the biggest fuel guzzling gizmos invented? Afterburners have different settings in which more or less fuel can be injected into the exhaust pipe and surely the flame colour should vary as the fuel air mix varies as would occur with an ordinary burner. If the lowest afterburner setting itself has excess fuel and all remaining oxygen is combusted, there would be no point in injecting even more fuel for 2 or 3 "higher" afterburner settings. Clearly the explanation is likely to involve something more than just the fuel-air ratio.

The MiG series, the Jaguar, Tornado, F-15, Gripen and even F-22 IIRC throw out an orange flame and not a blue one. Considering that 99.9% of ordinary domestic gas burners produce a perfectly blue flame, it would seem odd that afterburner designers don't seem to be concerned. Perhaps it has nothing to do with efficiency and is just a result of a unique design?

But let me leave that aside - the real point for this thread is that the Al-31 has a unique design feature that produces that blue flame. The Chinese are using the Al-31 in some numbers and that same blue flame is seen in all the aircraft known to use the Al-31. Now if I see a photo of the J-20 producing that blue flame, I would bet that it is using the Al 31 and not some unique new Chinese engine simply because 90% of engine designs do not produce a blue flame on afterburning for whatever reason. This is guesswork. Not science.

Some engine news from Oct 2011
http://www.strategypage.com/dls/article ... 8-2011.asp

China revealed that it was replacing the engines in its J-10 fighter, installing Chinese made WS-10A in place of the Russian made AL-31FN. Then, two months ago, China ordered another 123 AL-31FNs, to be delivered over the next two years.

On the engine topic, for a scramjet program, laser ignition was tested with success, if used in regular jet/IC engines would it help in better burning of fuel mixture? could be useful in starting up engines soaked in colder climates or relighting engines at higher altitudes

LASTEC and Kaveri?

I believe J-10A/Su-27/Su-30MKK continue using AL-31, but J-10B/J-11 will be using WS-10, as their prototypes are flying with WS-10.

Defies logic. If the WS10 is good enough to fly prototypes, why is not good enough to fly on the other types?

Try putting the engine from the Suzuki Maruti inside a Tata Nano. WS10 has a CFM core (1st paragraph, Wikipedia).

[OT]Of course. The air-to-fuel ratio is one of the main things the flame colour depends on, but not the only factor. The level of mixing of the fuel spray with the air is also important here. If the mixture isn't fully mixed, you will get not get complete combustion even if there is enough excess air to theoretically do so. So an afterburner should be able to produce increased thrust by injecting more fuel into the exhaust gas stream without ever realising complete combustion.[/OT]

Maybe it is plasma and the different ways a flame is kept alive in the ass of the engine, that imparts those pretty colors

China fake parts 'used in US military equipment'



Ouch.

China is a no brainer. expected behavior.

And their taller deeper friends in the UK/Canada may be behind the number 2 and 3 rankings.

What I wonder about is how the Chinese makers of aircraft differentiate between fake and real? If they can, it means that they know exactly which is fake and which is real then it is deliberate state policy to keep the fake ones being sold. That is quite likely knowing that Chinese are intelligent enough to predict that an idiot foreigner how finds out will only dhoti shiver and say "Hey that is Sun Tzu at work"

You're making absolutely no sense with that analogy. My point is simple enough to understand, for most folks. Why is the WS10A not good enough for the other types? (Can China not adapt the airframes if the WS10A which has the same external dimensions if the engine is indeed so much better than the AL31/F that China is importing in such large numbers?)

Firstly, who tells you that WS10A has a same external dimensions with AL31/F?

Then, sir, you need to redesign the whole plane when something as important as an engine to be replaced. It is more difficult if compared with a car, in fact. You need at least to learn something from the LCA thread to know how much trouble would resulted with a replaced engine at first, please. As both J10A and J11A would be finished mass production within a couple of years, the Chinese authority would be too stupid to consider redesigning them just for adopting a new type of engine.

Repeat once more,
- China has hundreds (each of them) Su-27, Su-30, J-11A, and J-10A flying. Even for their maintenance, the country needs to import Al31 at hundreds level.
- Mass production of both J10A and J11a would be finished within 1 or 2 years, thus no need to redesign them for a new engine
- J10b, J11b, J15,......, the new types of fighters will use domestic made engines. All of them.
- China will no longer import new types of aeroplane engines from Russia, in mass, any more. A time is over.

BTW, remember the story of Su-35 import? I declared similarly when somebody aroused the topic here. China will never import fighters in mass from Russia anymore. Lots of people jumped out to challenge me but now the truth has become more clear.

Please wait and see.