Bharat Rakshak

yes thats the Namer.

Yep, that is the thing. Thanks a lot for the pic. I am sorry that I didn't provide one, just assumed its common knowledge (except to me of course). I also thought it was some form of dust protection, but does seem awfully ad hoc and don't remember seeing one on US or Allied tanks in the gulf. Does it have something to do with the sand in our desert?

Why would flexible fabric for dust protection on an exposed moving mechanical part be ad-hoc? Are you aware of other non ad hoc ways of reducing dust and sand on such parts?

Absolutely no idea of how one would do it unlike how it has been done above. As for the ad hoc thing, I agree it might be just my SDRE complex. But, really I would like to know how the Americans make do without it in the gulf (or maybe they do have it and I just don't know, I am more than happy to be corrected). I am wondering if its due to the nature of the sand in the Thar desert.

Read this pdf
Start from page 11 last paragraph.
https://www.corrdefense.org/Academia%20 ... 06T075.pdf

not sure about the usefulness of silicone rubber sheets? i am sure about it can definitely withstand dessert heat, but not on the tensile and weathering properties especially to take on consistent impacts from fine dust particles that can be razor sharp at high speeds(storms).

Very interesting, It seems as though they have the same problems (as expected). I didn't see any specific counter measures they have taken in the document besides increased maintenance. If that is the case, the fabric is more or less a more clever countermeasure against the sand (ad hoc or not). Anyway, it does make sense that the Americans would waste money with more maintenance and more research for a cooler looking protection , as they always do. Anyway, seems that the fabric thing is a low-cost solution that someone with clever thinking came up with. I would really love to know if it has any official designation.

About "cooler looking" - I think the Americans just did not anticipate those conditions, just as they did not anticipate "hot and high" the way the IAF does. We tend to be informed through America's robust propaganda machine that they are ready for anything anywhere and in this case I suspect you are approaching the issue with the attitude that "The Americans surely must have a solution by now and it is likely cooler looking because they spend more money on such things" No such information exists in the public domain that I know of. As far as my knowledge goes TFTA mechanical parts are as badly affected by fine dust as the janata model.

Military solutions are meant to be functional even if they are not good looking.

Plus what info do we have about that black cover to brand it as a jugaad ? For all we know, it might be a well researched product to keep dust away (and not off the shelf black rubber sheet used as an ad-hoc measure).

the M60 tank had this feature as did many others like merkava(kept under cover now)
http://www.wallpaperpimper.com/wallpape ... 24x768.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... sany-2.jpg

not seen on leopard2 A4, or the omani challenger tanks

Arjun tank does have this covering, while I don't remember seeing it in T90. You can see it in Defence Expo pictures too.

both our t72 and t90 tanks have this at base of barrel area
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-olurSM2KrLg/T ... 2Bline.jpg

if a cheap piece of canvas or rubber avoids a maintainence cycle costly in time, people and parts, it obviously looks a std practice across our tank fleet...

I think your right. So much for America knowing best. At least we didn't waste money, time and resources making an anti-gravity pen.

So we should have bridges that can support Arjun's Weight. Arjun is better than t90 in its firepower accuracy, also being indigenous, it provides far better control over many aspects like customization according to Indian needs, Maintenance etc.

T90 had problems when it was tested in desert and we had to call Russian guys to look into that problem.

that settles it - atleast one tfta western heavy does it, so it "must be good because the goras do it"

I think that fabric like thingy covers the area where the barrel meets the turret, most probably to protect dust and moisture from coming in contact with the moving parts/bearings.

The covers are known as Thermal Sleeve it prevents gun barrels being thermally distorted due to firing and environmental conditions , check it out

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_sleeve

'Arjun Mark II' tank trial begins in Rajasthan

JAIPUR: The trial of 'Arjun Mark II' tanks has started at Rajasthan's Pokhran field firing range, the Defence Reasearch and Development Organisation today said.

"The trials started on Friday last and will continue for the next two months. The ongoing trials will mainly focus on 19 parametres," DRDO spokesperson Ravi Gupta said in a release here.

"Indian Army accepted 124 Arjuns into service but the Army has made a follow-on order conditional upon 93 improvements to the Arjun, including 19 major modifications,' defence spokesperson S D Goswami said.

The major upgrades would be missile-firing capability against long-range targets, panoramic sight with night vision to engage targets effectively at night, containerisation of the ammunition, enhanced main weapon penetration; additional ammunition types, explosive reactive armour, an advanced air-defence gun to engage helicopters.

Other upgrades are an enhanced Auxiliary power unit providing 8.5 KW (from 4.5 KW) and an improved gun barrel, changes in the commander's panoramic sight with eye safe LRF, night vision capability including for driver, digital control harness,' he said.

This tank is the successor to Arjun Mark 1 Tank. An Arjun tank is operated by a four-member crew comprising a commander-cum-navigator, gunner, loader and driver.

^so what are they going to pour into the crank shaft this time?

^^^ Exactly. For the IA to complain that a Renk transmission wasn't good enough is like complaining a BMW M5 is a lousy car we want a Lada
This time the insane assertion blew up in their face when a Renk technician arrived in India and determined their transmssion was tampered with. I suggest the Arjun Mk II be put thru the same rigorous trials the Tin can-90 was... none

Tejas and others please dont display your ignorance when it comes to the testing that the T-90 has been subjected to by the IA before it bought it. Any sane person knows that IA is the most professional force when it comes to acquiring weapons and they apply the same yardstick to domestic/foreign systems

I am setting up a website www.t90testinginindia.com along the lines of http://www.rahulgandhiachievements.com/ hope you will shut you mouth then and not talk bad about T90

They are going to pour in the rants and fulminations of Shir Pallam Raju.

May be the oily politicos words can provide the necessary lubrication.

I think some Yindu nationalists have sabotaged both of suryag's websites already.

My personal experience is that the bribes are quite prevalent in IA like all other Government organisations. Sub standard goods are often passed after due consideration.

In the dealing between PSUs the personal consideration vanishes. So the officials have motivation to go for Russian tanks in exchange for few gifts. (Russian do have great links and experience; insiders do say that in 70s many of Indian government ministers and officials were on Soviet pay roll).

As a honest citizen, one can't expect IA to be clean circle, when they are operating on a Universal corruption set(U). The honest afsars must be seen as U' first. For that, one would like to see a larger set of honest citizens. /OT.. but very valid in most threads... even for the distant future.

^^If this will get the Russians off our back concerning the FMBT, then its welcome indeed.

BMP and BTR successor plans reveled

Kurganets-25 APC
Boomerang APC

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80bea ... ackground/

Nice video presentation... cool stuff

Hi

I met a Chaiwallah from HVF recently and he mentioned there are issues with Arjun's suspension due to increased weight of Mark II. He was not very enthusiastic about Army's response for Mark II.

Can somebody clarify if it is true?

Thanks

Prasad

^^ No clue on the suspension part but wont be surprised if true ( about IA disinterest in Mk-II/III/xx )

Funny how Chaiwallahs never predicted Arjun beating the pants off the T-90.

no official statement on arjun trial yet.

i am not convinced that drdo missed to address changes in suspension when they knew weight is going up!

I find it weird that a tank which was said to have WEIGHT as its major drawback is being spec-ed for even more weight followed by all the issues that a heavy vehicle is expected to have (transmission wear/tear, mobility,etc). Army's earlier criticism would have sounded more credible if they had asked for reduction in weight, the T90 OTOH is doing fine and dandy (in terms of orders) in spite of significantly lower protection levels than Arjun.

Are Arjun tanks expected to be used in a totally opposite role as T90? I even do not know what this "opposite role" is, just trying to guess based on the major differences in the protection levels of these tanks.

Quite difficult to understand this Arjun saga.

So now IA will come with a new "immediate" requirement for an APC/ICV. Since the local product "cannot" meet the requirements we have to request Russia to sell it to us

they can use the same material used here:
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=19232

to reduce the weight for arjun mk2

btw, I think this is still looking like T90:Arjun::1:100 from IA's order book PoV. It may be reverse in other terms - cost, performance, operations and maintenance.

The increased weight of the Mk2 was to be handled with an improved suspension. Read this article by Ajai Shukla on the Arjun Mk2's improved suspension

I can imagine that there could be a few problems problems, but definitely not a game stopper. Certainly nothing that cannot be dealt with.



see the difference in the 2 suspensions- the older one is quite obviously in bad shape compared to the new one after 1300 kms of running.

new


old


I'm marking the last para because it goes over what we've gone over in the ALH discussion as well where vic said that the ALH has very little to do with HAL.