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PostPosted: 25 Jun 2012 03:27 
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sum wrote:
^^ Congrats to the Chinese...

They sure are making giant strides!!


The most ambitious goals of their manned programme will have to wait until Long March 5 rockets (currently under development) give them the payload capacity needed. Otherwise they'll be a midget version of the Soviet programme in 1977.


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PostPosted: 27 Jun 2012 12:55 
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What's that yellow stripe ??? Second prototype.

Image
Image


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PostPosted: 27 Jun 2012 13:20 
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my first guess is it would be a bay for avionics with yellow paint over it marking danger or some radiation sign printed over it.

Its too small to have a patch AESA radar but i dont rule out telemetry patch antenna.

J-20 is looking good in the first photo , the Achilles heels of J-20 will be its engine , considering its a big fighter it would need atleast an engine of 14.5-15 T class to give justice to its flight performance specially during air combat .....now how to get the engine from Russian or if they develop a reliable one is their problem.

For the rest like Weapons , Avionics , Sensors and Radars suite the chinese can do a decent job at it if not a world class one to make J-20 competitive fighter/bomber.


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PostPosted: 27 Jun 2012 13:27 
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Austin wrote:
my first guess is it would be a bay for avionics with yellow paint over it marking danger or some radiation sign printed over it.

Its too small to have a patch AESA radar but i dont rule out telemetry patch antenna.

J-20 is looking good in the first photo , the Achilles heels of J-20 will be its engine , considering its a big fighter it would need atleast an engine of 14.5-15 T class to give justice to its flight performance specially during air combat .....now how to get the engine from Russian or if they develop a reliable one is their problem.

For the rest like Weapons , Avionics , Sensors and Radars suite the chinese can do a decent job at it if not a world class one to make J-20 competitive fighter/bomber.

OK Thanks for the suggestion and your input. : )


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PostPosted: 27 Jun 2012 13:39 
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Oh just thinking over it , since those yellow marking are over the radome very close to where the main radar Antenna should be , I am wondering if the Chinese have added the radar and are flight testing it with the prototype.

Even PAK-FA 3rd prototype is flying with the new AESA radar.

A pitot tube on the front of radome with some caliberating instrument would indicate it has no actual working radar , could just be antenna that is not radiating or ballast.

I have seen similar yellow marking on Tejas

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-dHO8Qs-JPgo/T ... CA+-+1.JPG


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PostPosted: 27 Jun 2012 14:12 
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^^^^^

Those yellow strips on the J-20 and on the Tejas are illuminated (fluorescent?) strips used for formation flying. Was discussed some eons ago on the LCA thread...


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PostPosted: 27 Jun 2012 18:01 
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One more interesting picture

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PostPosted: 27 Jun 2012 19:16 
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Already smoking heh heh


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PostPosted: 27 Jun 2012 21:42 
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It's a fuel dump.


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PostPosted: 27 Jun 2012 22:26 
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The J-20 design might not look supremely stealthy right now but it has tremendous potential for growth , they would perhaps develop in A/B/C model like they are doing with J-10 and can progressively add higher thrust engine , 3D TVC , Elimination of Canards and Ventral fins for better LO properties , twin seater , more composite etc ....the chinese seems to be conservative in their approach like the Russians get the basic aircraft up in the air and then progressively fiddle with A,B,C model.

Is there any official specs released on J-20 ?


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PostPosted: 28 Jun 2012 11:48 
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Russia Looking at China S-400 Deliveries in 2017

© RIA Novosti. Artem Jitenev
11:47 27/06/2012
ZHUKOVSKY (Moscow region), June 27 (RIA Novosti)

Russia will start exports of the S-400 Triumph air defense missile systems to China no earlier than 2017, a source in the defense industry told RIA Novosti on the condition of anonymity.
“An export version of the S-400 Triumph air defense missile will have been developed by 2017 with the Chinese to be the first clients,” the source said.
Russia currently has four S-400 regiments - two in the Moscow region, one in the Baltic Fleet and one in the Eastern Military District.

By 2020, Russia is to have 28 S-400 regiments, each comprised of two battalions, mainly in maritime and border areas.

In early June, Russian Defense Ministry said there were no plans to export the S-400, which will be produced only for the Russian Armed Forces.

The S-400 Triumph, which succeeds the Soviet-era S-300, is a medium- to long-range surface-to-air missile system that can effectively engage any aerial target, including aircraft, unmanned aerial vehicles, and cruise and ballistic missiles at up to 400 kilometers and an altitude of up to 30 kilometers.

http://en.rian.ru/world/20120627/174264185.html


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PostPosted: 28 Jun 2012 12:05 
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looks like in 2017 they will cease production for local use and convert it as a cash cow product.
by that time the S-500 should be done with development.
nice plan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-500_(missile)
In 2011 it was announced that the S-500 program was at least two years behind schedule, with the planned date of introduction to service now set to 2017. Production of prototypes and the testing programme are expected to be completed in 2015


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PostPosted: 28 Jun 2012 18:01 
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New corvette type 56 launched 4 being built for Hong Kong garrison ?

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Image
Image
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PostPosted: 29 Jun 2012 16:56 
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^^^
nice looking ships


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PostPosted: 29 Jun 2012 17:02 
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Image
http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/scienc ... epage=true

back to earth


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PostPosted: 29 Jun 2012 17:06 
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j20 does look stealthy. As Austin pointed, they might have gotten ahead with the engine tie-ups from russkies.


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PostPosted: 29 Jun 2012 21:29 
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http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/ ... 7J20120629

United Technologies sent military copter tech to China

Quote:
United Technologies Corp on Thursday admitted selling China software that helped Beijing develop its first modern military attack helicopter, one of hundreds of export control violations over nearly two decades.

At a federal court hearing in Bridgeport, Connecticut, United Technologies and its two subsidiaries, Pratt & Whitney Canada and Hamilton Sundstrand Corp, agreed to pay more than $75 million to the U.S. government to settle criminal and administrative charges related to the violations.

As part of the settlement, Pratt & Whitney Canada pleaded guilty to two federal criminal charges - violating a U.S. export control law and making false statements.

Federal prosecutors said the company knew that its export of modified software to China would allow Beijing to test and develop its new military helicopter, called the Z-10, using 10 engines that had been legally exported as commercial items.

They said the company harmed national security while trying to gain access to China's lucrative civilian helicopter marketl


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PostPosted: 29 Jun 2012 21:34 
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^^^ Interesting comments section there too!


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PostPosted: 30 Jun 2012 05:39 
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SaiK wrote:

Image


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PostPosted: 30 Jun 2012 06:01 
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yantra wrote:

At a federal court hearing in Bridgeport, Connecticut, United Technologies and its two subsidiaries, Pratt & Whitney Canada and Hamilton Sundstrand Corp, agreed to pay more than $75 million to the U.S. government to settle criminal and administrative charges related to the violations.



So United tech has to pay around 100 mil penalty for something that they might have received much more money ...


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PostPosted: 30 Jun 2012 06:41 
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Location: havildar-major, 1st JSOC munna detachment.
so what engine is the WZ-10 using for production run?


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PostPosted: 30 Jun 2012 10:20 
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yantra wrote:
^^^ Interesting comments section there too!


Quote:
Does ANYBODY actually believe that advanced technology given for “peaceful purposes” won’t make it into “military projects” in countries like China or Russia (or a dozen others)? UTC is getting off with the smallest of penalties, but what about the govt agencies and employees that granted the export licenses? Speaking of which, in a couple of years we’ll be reading about how the Chinese have made huge advances in aircraft jet engines following the joint business venture between GE (President Marxist’s buddy Immelt) and the CIVILIAN Chinese aircraft industry. But hey, who could see it coming years in advance?


So is it another method to transfer mil tech to PRC to make sure that it is at par with its rivals.
PRC is being helped openly to keep up its tech


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PostPosted: 30 Jun 2012 12:37 
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Singha wrote:
so what engine is the WZ-10 using for production run?

Domestically produced uprated WZ-9 engines.

They will Codevelop a new engine called WZ 60 with the help of Turbomeca which can also be used on Z-10

http://www.aviationweek.com/Blogs.aspx? ... d=blogDest

Quote:
Fabre said Turbomeca and China will codevelop a version of the 1,800 shp Ardiden engine that will have 15% better fuel burn than the P&WC engine it will replace. Called the WZ60, it should enter service in 2014.


Quote:
The move to develop an engine in China would spare the Z-15 from U.S. embargoes on its engines should it enter service with the Chinese armed forces.

Fabre said it would be no surprise if the helicopter turned out to be dual use, and Turbomeca engines have already been licensed by the French government for such purposes.


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PostPosted: 30 Jun 2012 15:46 
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Acharya wrote:
yantra wrote:
^^^ Interesting comments section there too!


Quote:
Does ANYBODY actually believe that advanced technology given for “peaceful purposes” won’t make it into “military projects” in countries like China or Russia (or a dozen others)? UTC is getting off with the smallest of penalties, but what about the govt agencies and employees that granted the export licenses? Speaking of which, in a couple of years we’ll be reading about how the Chinese have made huge advances in aircraft jet engines following the joint business venture between GE (President Marxist’s buddy Immelt) and the CIVILIAN Chinese aircraft industry. But hey, who could see it coming years in advance?


So is it another method to transfer mil tech to PRC to make sure that it is at par with its rivals.
PRC is being helped openly to keep up its tech


While US had denied us 'LHTEC T800' engine for Dhruv & LCH that's why we had to go for less powerful french engine.


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PostPosted: 30 Jun 2012 18:13 
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Would be good to see J-20 etc flying in Iranian Air Force colours. Maybe if the Iranians hold off for another 10-12 years before nuclearising, and then defend their airspace with J-20s, etc, there could be a first class Israel vs Iran match worth watching. :mrgreen:

If they 'sell' a couple to Pakistan, the match may start sooner rather than later.


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PostPosted: 30 Jun 2012 20:41 
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^^
and what is good in Iran getting the J20? Iran has had a nasty habit of supporting TSP whenever the crunch time comes


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PostPosted: 30 Jun 2012 21:51 
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Oh no! What a scary thought


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PostPosted: 30 Jun 2012 22:48 
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This export of advanced helicopter engines to China reminds me of the nuclear" espionage case with A. Q. Khan.

It seems to me, from what I have read, that the GOTUS and Dutch government guided and assisted A.Q. Khans' efforts. Acharya is probably quite right in saying that this is a deliberate transfer of technology to China by the US government.


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PostPosted: 30 Jun 2012 22:58 
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what is frigging point in postmortem of stolen technologies? we all know that.. and still do not consider as a challenge to develop K. K is more important the moon mission in a certain scope of things. i don't really care about wz10.. but K.


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PostPosted: 30 Jun 2012 23:41 
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The US controls the flow of tech to both china and India esp the latter both covertly and overtly no matter what they say . That's why deals with them should never be at the expense of indigenous projects .


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PostPosted: 01 Jul 2012 05:44 
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J-21/F-60 Caravan

http://www.youtube.com/embed/lS9GSVGO7yo


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PostPosted: 01 Jul 2012 06:18 
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wong wrote:


Stupid video. 2 minutes of nothing. 2 seconds of a cockeyed camoed plane shaped thing flashing past after which a pink finger is put over the lens. Waste of time.


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PostPosted: 01 Jul 2012 06:19 
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eklavya wrote:
Oh no! What a scary thought


Why is it scaring you?


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PostPosted: 01 Jul 2012 07:50 
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shiv wrote:
wong wrote:


Stupid video. 2 minutes of nothing. 2 seconds of a cockeyed camoed plane shaped thing flashing past after which a pink finger is put over the lens. Waste of time.



There are some clearer pics of the canopied plane around, rumored to be the medium-sized 5th gen fighter from SAC, supposedly around 17 meters in length and powered by two WS-13's with the first flight scheduled some time in August/September.

The 056 looks pretty modern, but it's really quite feeble, designed as a cheap, low-end, and somewhat mission-flexible coastal patrol ship.


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PostPosted: 01 Jul 2012 09:34 
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shiv wrote:
wong wrote:


Stupid video. 2 minutes of nothing. 2 seconds of a cockeyed camoed plane shaped thing flashing past after which a pink finger is put over the lens. Waste of time.

Yeah agreed stupid video a waste of time.


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PostPosted: 01 Jul 2012 09:36 
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DavidD wrote:
shiv wrote:
J-21/F-60 Caravan

http://www.youtube.com/embed/lS9GSVGO7yo

Stupid video. 2 minutes of nothing. 2 seconds of a cockeyed camoed plane shaped thing flashing past after which a pink finger is put over the lens. Waste of time.



There are some clearer pics of the canopied plane around, rumored to be the medium-sized 5th gen fighter from SAC, supposedly around 17 meters in length and powered by two WS-13's with the first flight scheduled some time in August/September.

.

Save the lecture just post the pictures when it shows up otherwise don't waste our time.


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PostPosted: 01 Jul 2012 13:50 
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shiv wrote:
eklavya wrote:
Oh no! What a scary thought


Why is it scaring you?


It isn't scaring me! I should have added a smiley after my one liner. Everything about the Joke-20 is too funny.


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PostPosted: 01 Jul 2012 18:09 
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DavidD wrote:

There are some clearer pics of the canopied plane around, rumored to be the medium-sized 5th gen fighter from SAC, supposedly around 17 meters in length and powered by two WS-13's with the first flight scheduled some time in August/September.

The 056 looks pretty modern, but it's really quite feeble, designed as a cheap, low-end, and somewhat mission-flexible coastal patrol ship.


What's interesting is the size of that police escort for just a "plane shape thing".

Also, this wasn't the SAC design that went up against the CAC J-20 (specs would be all wrong), so there is another larger SAC design out there. The J-21/F-60 is for carrier and export (i.e. Pakistan).


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PostPosted: 01 Jul 2012 18:21 
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Quote:
What's interesting is the size of that police escort for just a "plane shape thing".


What's even more interesting that they are attracting so much attention towards the plane. It is not a nuclear bomb that someone could run off with. :lol:

If secrecy is desired, transport in daylight is not the ideal method. Even Pakistanis are more discreet :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: 01 Jul 2012 18:31 
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If u know Chinese u'd found that people standing there not for witnessing the plane but because their side of the expressway was closed.

It is really something that is very important. An export model could not afford such police existence, and never.


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