Bharat Rakshak

No it is not. You are exaggerating it by an order of magnitude.

CAG Report

The Government of India entered into a collaboration agreement with Messerschmitt
Bolkow Blohm (MBB) - West Germany, (presently ECD6) in July 1984 for design,
development and establishment of production facilities of ALH and entrusted the same to
the Company. The Collaboration agreement provided for achievement of 13 prescribed
milestones (Annexure VII) within seven years i.e. by 1991. Subsequently, the Company
prepared (July 1992) Preliminary Project Report (PPR) for ALH, which indicated
development of ALH including first flight and type certification of basic version before
end of 1994. The PPR also revised the schedule for design freeze of utility version of
ALH to December 1993 and completion of prototypes by 1994. This resulted in extension
of collaboration agreement by four years up to 1995.

The consultant recommended for indigenisation level of fifty per cent of purchases of
raw material and bought out items by the year 2008. However, 90 per cent of the value of
material used in each helicopter is still imported from foreign suppliers. Even though
ALH is in production for 10 years, the Company has not been able to identify alternative
indigenous suppliers.

The MBB team consisted of around 10-15 people only and it was more of a consultant and it was a joint venture in every sense. The first flight and initial tests were all carried out by HAL team(from what i was told, it was a sikh pilot and there was also a joke on the first flight story). MBB also gained from this JV and it was not all one way traffic. I can probably only say this much, maybe Hari sir can add if he wishes to. The ALH was a learning curve and thanks to that, today HAL is capable of designing, developing, testing and certifying helicopters all by itself in various weight categories. We now have a knowledge base in the country which never existed previously and there are also a few unique research projects which are being pursued by not many people in the world, so please try and get the full information and don't just depend on a few stories and sources, it is only after you close the loop that you get the entire picture
Cheers!

Is IAF taking delivery of Global 5000 part of any known projects? ASTOR was offered in early 2009 after the Mumbai attacks but that is quite different from stating that IAF has been shopping around for an ASTOR type system.

Definitely need to keep lookout for any news on the matter.

I am not depending on a story. I am referring to CAG report that the design, development and setting up the production line was the purview of MBB. ALH is just like Brahmos, Su-30MKI, AL-55 engine, Shakti engine type of programme where there is nothing HAL/indigenous about it.

You surely are entitled to have your opinion but please don't try and convince others into believing that its a fact. I work at the RWR&DC and have been fortunate enough to meet and work with stalwarts(their contributions are immeasurable) , you are not only downplaying their efforts but also portraying them as mere plagiarists which is absolutely unacceptable to me. Either way this is my last post on this topic, for your opinion seems unchangeable.
Cheers!

Vic

still waiting to see MBB test pilots performed the first flights???

raghuk

don't waste your valuable time on this genius

Vic,

CAG reports are more of a summary along with news articles that come out. They do not portray all of the details that actually have taken place over the last 20+ years with 1,000s of hours that have gone into building indigenous capacity and capability. Take it for what it is.

Two Dhruvs shippped to Ecuador recently along with a Cheetah to Namibia.

There is going to be a show on Dhruv on NDTV India tomorrow at 8 30 pm IST.

-Ankit

Here's a comparison:

US firm United Tech pleads guilty to helping China build attack helicopter
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/us-fi ... er/968234/

Something foir us ot also chew on.

The Top Gun technology targeting the world
Brain power is keeping Britain ahead in the global battle for hi-tech defence sales, Mark Leftly finds on a visit to BAE Systems at a former aircraft hangar in Kent

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 97250.html

We have lot of indigenous programmer like LCA, AMCA, Saras, Hansa, IJT, LOH, LCH, Rustom, AURA, Nishant etc but ALH is not

Still waiting for the MBB test pilots who test flew the Dhruv

Surya, Shoot and scoot, that seems the underlying tactic.. Is there a way to ignore all posts by a particular member ?

Barrackpore gets helicopter unit


KOLKATA: A new helicopter unit comprising multipurpose Mi-17 V5 helicopters - the latest acquisition of the Indian Air Force - has been raisedat the Barrackpore airbase. The first helicopter will be inducted on Friday by Air Marshal S Varthaman, AOC-in-C,Eastern Air Command.
The Mi-17 V5 choppers have more powerful engines and larger fuel capacity than their predecessors and are extremely versatile for carrying out both military and civil operations. The choppers will be ableto operate in high altitudes and air bridge the remote and inhospitable terrain in the North East. The choppers have colour weather radar that allows it to operate in bad weather conditions. tnn Its Generation-III night vision goggles capability will enable special operations. Apart from search and rescue operations on land and sea, the choppers may also be used by central police forces.
The helicopters also have sustained fire power and fall in the category ofan armed helicopter. One of its most interesting features is the Bambi bucket fire-fighting system. It comprises a large bucket suspended below the aircraft that can pick up about three and a half tonnes of water from any reservoir and drop itover a fire.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 479235.cms

Latest IAF choppers inducted in Barrackpore


KOLKATA: The fire at the Nandigram Market in Burrabazar may not have blazed for nearly a week and many more lives could have been saved at the AMRI Hospital in Dhakuria had the Mi-17 V5 choppers - among the latest aircraft to be acquired by the Indian Air Force - been inducted at Barrackpore air force base earlier. The choppers, the first of which was ceremoniously inducted by Air Marshal S Varthaman, AOC-in-C, Eastern Air Command, on Friday, is the first helicopter in the country to be fitted-with a Bambi bucket fire fighting system .
""These could have been very effective in controlling the blaze thatoccurred in Kolkata recently. A large bucket can be suspended below the aircraft. This can pick up nearly threeand a half tonnes of water and drop them on a fire. These helicopters canbe used for civilian purposes. They are fitted with loud hailers and powerful search lights that cane be used for effective crowd control during disaster relief operations,"" said Air Marshal Varthaman.
While an open blaze can be completely douzed with the large amounts of water that the choppers can carry, in fires like the one at AMRI, the water can help to cool down the building substantially and aid in normal firefighting.
The choppers of the newly set-up 157 Helicopter Unit can also be used to ferry personnel of central police forces for anti-Maoist operations. With their added endurance and special features, they will also come in handy during flood relief operations. In the past, choppers hadto be brought in from elsewhere for flood-relief operations in the state.
According to Varthaman, 30 of the helicopters will be inducted at three air bases under the Eastern Air Command. Barrackpore will get its full squadron of helicopters by the end of this year. ""The IAF has ordered 80 of these helicopters from Russia . Though of Russian-make, theavionics inside are western. There is a weather radar on board that allows the aircraft to operate in all weather conditions in any terrain. These choppers are also the first in the country to be equipped with Generation III Night Vision Goggles. This allows them to fly in pitch dark conditions,"" the AOC-in-C said.
Its superior equipment and weaponswill also make the helicopters very effective for Special Forces operations in the North East. Their greater maneuverability and ability to fly at high altitudes will allow them to operate in Sikkim and other mountainous regions.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 508063.cms

Yes. Go to User Control Panel and add him to your list of "Foes".

I live in Barrackpore, and the Base is just 5mins from my place. Incidentally, it rained heavily whole morning, so I am not sure how they conducted the induction ceremony. HAL's Barrackpore Unit has had massive change in past 3-4yrs. Their base has expanded in a massive manner. Its a huge Air-base now. I hope to see a C-130 here someday.

I\We cannot ignore him unless someone else steps in

Unless admins flag him for trolling we have to keep countering him within forum rules -- else the distasteful dismissal (and particulary hurtful to HAL forum members) will continue

Suryaji, not a bad option.. But wouldn't it be best to leave vic to his believes.. Till one realizes the errors of his ways and thinking by themselves, no amount of proof will satisfy them..

Cool,

That works!

nice

thanks A Sharma

that was neat

Were pilots carrying micro uzi?
TIA

Nice documentary, Rajiv Ranjan is getting better with each one. The usual dorks from the media can take a lesson from him. I can see that he has the utmost respect for indigenous assets, unlike the buffoons who salivate at foreign stuff and scoff at the desi gems. I look forward to his pieces on Arjun Mark II and LCA.

Airbase at Panagarh by next year


The IAF wants to convert Panagarh, now an airstrip largely used for emergency landing, into a permanent airbase by the end of 2013.
“We want to start full-fledged operations in Panagarh by the end of next year,” Air Marshal S. Varthaman, the air officer commanding-in-chargeof the Eastern Air Command said today on the sidelines of an event at the Barrackpore airbase in North-24 Parganas. “We have all the necessary infrastructure, including land. It should not be a problem.”
Once Panagarh becomes fully operational, it will not only bolster the IAF’s operations in the east but also serve as an important base from where mid-air refuelling could be carried out, sources said.
The Eastern Air Command inducted a Mi-17 V5 helicopter at the Barrackpore air base, the first IAF aircraft that comes fitted with third-generation night-vision goggles (NVG) and a Bambi bucket fire-fighting system to take up any civilian or military challenge.
The Russian-made aircraft, according to Varthaman, would be able to pick up three-and-a-half tonnes of water from any reservoir in the bucket, which remains suspended below, andair-drop it over any area affected by fire.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1120630/j ... 674361.jsp

Seemed more like the MP9 than the micro uzi..

great piece of work. loved that marcos unit jumping into the water...very khanish for lack of a better analogy.

Great video Check the radar at 20 min 13 sec

nicely made video on Dhruv, the eagerness on the Cheetah pilot to convert shows

here's a small wish list,

1) After the Rudra upgrade, hopefully they get to add a refueling probe like on the C-130 which is removable

2) The Mi-17v5 with the option of a Bambi bucket is probably a first in the country for aerial fire fighting, good going, those buckets would have to release water close to fire to be fully effective, so a bucket made of heat resistant material is more suitable

Another option is a hose from a fire engine can be attached to a pump on the chopper, the chopper rises up in a hover, a dousing pipe similar to a refueling probe with water fed from the onboard pump allows for controlled water/fire retardant spray on fires in high rises since the pilot can see the landing of the water jet

3) A Chinook in a hover with a ramp like grill extending from its back into a window of a high rise, allows for rescuing trapped people like in twin towers or 26/11

4) They should integrate quad rocket launchers on the Mi-17v5, which can be fired only when the chopper is anchored on the ground to balance high recoil forces, MBRL kind of fire power coupled with air mobility will help Cold start

If somebody is so interested in protecting HAL, then they should sue CAG, after all I am using it's data

^^You mean MBB pilots initially flying Dhruv is CAG's data?

still waiting

since you so confidently claimed you had all the facts


and called us Pakis

please give us the MBB pilots name\links who tested the Dhruv initially

Folks - not taking any side in this war but here is a relevant quote:

Indian Defence Review: Jan-Mar 2002 Vol 17 (1)
By Bharat Verma

URL

IAF modernization to be completed by 2022:

Browne
The Air Chief Marshal NAK Browne today said that the ongoing modernization of Indian Air Force would be accomplished by 2022. ”All the contracts which are signed during the 11th plan are about Rs 1.12 lakh crore and they will be executed till 2017. At least 65 to 70% of modernisation will be accomplished by 2017, and the restby 2022….So 12th and 13th
Five-Year plans are very crucial for IAF ,” Browne said.
He was speaking to reporters after reviewing the combined Graduation Day parade of flying officers at Dundigal Air Force Academy here.
The procurement of new aircraft is seen in view of the IAF ’s efforts to give fillip to raising current combataircraft squadron strength from 34to 42.
“The modernisation that I speak about involves moving up our squadron strength from 34 to 42. So we need more pilots, technicians and we need more officers to fly the aircrafts,” Browne said.
On acquiring 75 new basic trainer aircraft from the Switzerland-based firm, Pilatus, Browne said IAF will be sending pilots and othertechnical staff to Switzerland to undergo the three-month training on the aircraft as the ‘Pilatus-PC 7′ is expected to join the fleet from January 2013.
“We will be sending our pilots and about 75 technicians to Switzerland for training. They will be coming back after three monthsof training there. And from January(2013) onward the PC-7 aircraft will start to join in the academy,” he said, adding the entire delivery of the aircraft is expected to be completed by July 2014.
The IAF had inked the deal with theSwiss firm Pilatus to buy new basictraining aircraft two months back.
The IAF had in 2009 grounded the HAL -manufactured HPT-32 aircraft for basic training purpose on variety of reasons
Browne said the IAF Academy here will increase its capacity to train cadets to 750 by 2016 from currentcapacity to train 465-485 cadets.
According to him, the Centre has allotted Rs 130 crore to improve the infrastructure at the Dundigal academy.
The IAF chief said that the stage-II training facility at Hakimpet airfield will be shifted to Deesa in Gujarat in next four to five years.

http://idrw.org/?p=12453

thanks Aditya

that comes as part of the consultancy probably

not the same as build, test , slap orange paint and hand over as our pal Viv says

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Hyderabad/article3589272.ece

IAF to buy 126 Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft

I am glad we have closure on this. I, for one, having been associated with HAL, NAL, ISRO and ADA never had any doubts that our input to these products was not a la Kamra aircraft "factory".

But we should also remember that in these tough economic times it has been necessary for even advanced countries to co-operate. The latest being the news of Ru and Fr in a joint armoured vehicle collaboration.

Looks like 8 Su-30MKI simulators total planned. There are enough simulators for every SU-30MKI airbase to have at least one simulator plus one extra.

Going by this, we can predict the number of simulators for other types as well.

• 8 x Su-30MKI simulators
• 4 x Rafale simulators
• 4 x LCA simulators
• 2 x Mirage-2000 simulators
• 2 x MiG-29 simulators
• 4 x Jaguar simulators
• 4 x Hawk AJT simulators
• 8 x IJT simulators
• 5 x PC-7II simulators

Total (by 2020): 41 simulators (estimated)