Bharat Rakshak

That looks like hand drawing

they should not waste their time in hand-drawings any more.. we have seen enough of that from HAL, ADA etc.

They are not. One can already see tenders for ECUs for APUs of AMCA and the like

well, you may want to add an O as prefix to ECU etc - OECU.

O for Optical? Well the tender seemed to have nothing in it suggesting the same (Disclaimer: I went through it cursorily).

My personal opinion on the discussion in BR related to optical networking to be used in AMCA is as follows.
1. What appears challenging to reporters/laymen need not be challenges for scientists.
2. We have been worring about the feasibility of an optical network. ADA/DRDO does not need to worry about that as much. These are well solved problems.
3. I think, and this is a complete newbie hunch, the real challenge will be in creating the hardware for a fighter environment.
a. How does one make adapters wich work under 9Gs of strain, constant vibration, or sudden shock?
b. How to make it field repairable?

And I don't think they will produce these answers in public space anytime soon. So relax .

P.S. I am a bit upset with HAL to have taken the HAL-Connect offline

very dumb pooch(kartik/IR?)

instead of FBL or FBW why cant actuators have RF transceivers in it and all entities will communicate with each other based on a limited spread spectrum scheme( to reduce interference) and exchange data and commands? This will lead to very less wiring and associated weight reduction

The big problem is outside RF interference with the RF transceivers but this can be managed as follows
1. set up modular copper screen shield to block all wavelenghts from outside
2. insulate the RADome from the other components using the same modular copper screen
3. debugging issues would be easier as there are lesser mechanical components that could go bad

possibleissues
1. performance under fading, this shouldnt be a concern because all entities inside the airframe will experience the same fading and there will be no doppler between them
2. outside ECM to hack the system inside, but this can be done by shielding the wavelenghts in a broad range

what hand drawing? both are derived from CAD models.

What are you talking about ? Bad projection drawing ? What does that even mean? A CATIA model can be easily taken and cross-sectional views generated from it. just because you see one CAD image doesn't mean that those doing that work haven't analysed it in detail and looked at it from all angles. Really, you armchair folks should think before making such stupid comments. There is a reason why this is called a configuration study- it is meant to study various configurations and is then used for further CFD and FEM analyses before arriving at the final configuration.

suryag are you sure, the high frequency waves from APG79s or what the raptor carries would not jam the very basic control laws? very risky option, even if it is doable.

however, we still have to use the mil std bus 15531773fiber optic extension -
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kartik, thanks for the correction. I will believe you that they did.

Surya ji,

I don't think your question is dumb. But my answer is dumb and entirely speculative.

My reading of your suggestion is this: sensors have transponders, actuators have receivers and the control unit have trancievers to listen to the sensors and provide commands to the actuators. You are suggesting a time divison multiplexing approach to avoid collisions. Am I right? For the sake of simplicity and just as a proof of concept, we are assuming that the radio communications are secure and tamper proof.

1. We don't know what is the percentage of wires used for the controls of the fighter. If that is not a sizeable percentage of the wires on the fighter, then there is not much use in what we are suggesting, as Amdahl would be smiling in his grave.
2. The FBW controls of a modern fighter is very data intensive. The throughput of the radio commuincations is not going to suffice. The control inputs and outputs are also very time sensitive. Control commands based on sensor input are extremely time sensitive. Latencies beyond the time allocated for a feedback loop is unacceptable and can lead to a complete departure from controlled flight.
3. The computing power on a fighter is quite exhaustively used, there might not be enough computation cycles left for real-time error detection, decryption for a radio system.

P.S. Rajeev Chandramohan, are you out there?! Your could provide much more informed guesses.

Okay, now I get a better (aam look) block diagram from this pic.
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/237/amca2.jpg

sourced: /not sure if i can link them here. so, I have no idea if these are correct.

^^^ you can call that one a bad project drawing

the engine is way too small in that drawing for a start.

As per Astra Microwave's recent report, LCA's AESA T/R modules are already being tested; considering LCA mk-2 will be ready by 2014/15, we can safely say, the Mk-2 will already have an AESA. I think ith a little bit of creativity this radar can be made into a scalable radar which can easily be fitted on Mirages, Mig-29/k and larger aradr with more T/R modules on the MKI. Testing should continue at a good pace; we can certainly have a mk-2 version of that radar for the AMCA.

AMCA will need a lot of work in weapons as well, mini brahmos, Astra mk-3 with ramjet, home made LGBs, glide bombs and GPS bombs are a must.

you see now what the "bad project" drawing is all about. what gives more "information"/conveys... to the real stakeholders .
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Fitting the AESA t/r module is one thing (good).. and getting to process and utilize the advantage provided by them is entirely different set of achievements.

That is where IAF has to give out their specific requirements.

From modules testing to deployment AESA radar will take at least 10-15 years

That's not even a CAD model, most probably has been made in paint or some similar software.

95-100kN Kaveri++ is what all the aspirations about. Which is core.. but peripheral needs are taking higher priority in terms of funding than what is really needed for total independence. We also heard a ddm report on canceling the project, which I suspect is not correct, or if the report is true , there goes another one of those "bad decisions".

I still don't know what a projection drawing is, but that is definitely not done in any CAD package..

^^Is that drawing really from DRDO or another gem taken out from the musharaff of aroor saab. Remember that drawing that was being flouted on livefist for Nirbhay missile?

A projection drawing is a view of an object from a certain angle. eg birds eye

More likely this intake is for unmanned aircraft bomber under developing in hal

Looks similar to this:

being subsonic the problems will be less than a supersonic serpentine intake...

Not sure how they got the variable geometry in SR-71.. something about the cowl and inlet throat design perhaps...

pak-fa seems very interesting., especially the variable vane controls., that does a dual job of reducing RCS.

hmm they allow pictures like this to be taken ? But honestly it looks like a DIY project in a workshop of sorts .. like a college lab

^^^ just for a few cheers and appreciations idiots like shiv aroor post pictures of such things ... seriously, is he even sane?? IMO shiv aroor is an idiot that doesn't know a thing about weaponry,, his blog is turned into another sensational blog that speaks before thinking.. he is an arrogant idiot of the highest order, although he gets some good pics

What makes you think the designers don't want some cheers and appreciation? The Indian UCAV unmanned bomber might be the last one to arrive on the scene but we need people to believe it will be stealthy when it does arrive for it to be a deterrent. These pictures help.

If you think Shiv Aroor is an idiot then I'm curious to know what you think of NDTV or Lasun Sengupta.

Sridhar is right, Aroor is a complete fraud who uses the achievements of or progress made by others to push eyeballs to his blog. The images above were shown by VKS at Sweden. Now how did he go put his own copyright on those images, tell me? His blog comments are full of comments by Pakis using the filthiest language against Indians and Indian institutions like DRDO etc which Aroor tacitly encourages.

You can often see him anon., using his trademark language and syntax - pretty easy to discern - leading the flamebaiting. After all, he was the same idiot who under SGs orders ran a bunch of cooked up stories against DRDO in the infamous IE campaign to discredit DRDO. Did we ever see Aroor apologize for the rubbish he wrote? Never.

Tarmak, Shukla - these show what actual journalism is. The former rarely puts his political opinions on any topic, bar HAL against some of whose internal politicking and issues which he has had an axe to grind but still balances out with positive coverage. Shukla is no techie but takes efforts to understand and write about tech and business. In contrast, Aroor gets his hands on PPTs from public events and seminars, puts his copyright on them - which would have him in trouble in any other country - and then just copy pastes stuff while putting condescending remarks about the very same institutions doing the development.

He is actually the single biggest example of how fraudulent Indian defense journalism is. Apparently It requires little to no talent, no understanding of technology or even efforts to do so, and lastly, no sense of ethics to succeed in journalism in India, where people like Aroor can succeed in the weeds. Add the other people revelling in their mediocrity and it becomes apparent as to why the Indian public knows so little about what it finances and why.

Furthermore, he is arrogant and lacks sincerity. Take that Rajeev Ranjans report on ALH. He may not know much but he shuts up and lets the actual experts the pilots flying the aircraft, speak. In contrast, Aroor tries to position himself as an expert, its laughable - using terms like controversial, dangerous, blistering, thunderous and what not to describe development efforts. Add the propaganda campaign he has conducted against Indian institutions in the past, and whom he continues to attack with snide comments, and its obvious that this guy is a total fraud.

He should be covering whether Bollywood filmstars wear enough makeup or what hemline goes with what skirt. Defense journalism is beyond him.

^^^

I don't think Shiv A. has written an actual article. All of the stuff on his blog are just a rehash of materials picked up from various defense presentations and visits to labs (which he has access because he has the media pass).

Yes, he does post 50 times as many pictures as articles, but if it weren't for his blog we'd be speculating a lot more on BR. Tarmak has a high SNR even if it is jingoistic, but I fly the same flag so it's all good.

If there was any proof that the comments on Livefist disparaging Indian institutions unduly, and BRFites have many things to say about the OFB and GTRE too, are Aroor's doing then that would compel me to forget that blog.

Pratikji,
I will happily give stand up ovations to everyone involved in this project, even after 50 years. Shiv aroor is a highly arrogant man, once a commentor advised him to not misguide people on Nirbhay and he wasn't happy for the poor journalism ... our great shiv saab gave this reply "You don't really have to be here, I won'tbe affected by not having you". Shiv aroor is nothing more than an arrogant idiot, who never thinks before writing an article about our respectable organisations. He also sounds pathetic when he tries to use stylish english as if to show us boor yindoos how well educated and well versed in english he is... his articles are outright insulting both to the country and the defence orgs. As a defence journalist, he should try his best to uplift the country's image instead of writing false (negative) reports and whines that are just meaningless and degrades whatever respect one has for Indian army. I did appreciate his photos in my last post.As far as undee tv and it's "english speaking/educated/liberal and modern" cousin channels are concerned, I am pretty sure I will be banned if I call them by their proper names and titles . Anyways, I think I went a little OT here... I apologize for that,if you still want to debate, please do so in nukkad. Sorry if I was being rude.
Regards

+1

The engine on that pic posted by saik is actually the right size. They are very small relative to the whole plane on modern jets and the intake is usually mostly "empty", the main function being to scoop undisturbed air into the engine.

Take a look at the engines on a Flanker:

Aroor is not a bad guy. He is Govinda of Defense Reporting. Just try to enjoy good parts of his blog without using too much brains. He gets very easily misled, so lot of his blog posts are pure junk.

+1

If Aroor was simply being a joker and admitted that, it would be one thing - the Govinda analogy would hold good.

But he pretends to be a neutral "expert" and in the process somebody who routinely talks down Indian programs while pimping foreign wares. He has no idea of any program in detail, would be hard pressed to differentiate between a BMP or a BTR but posts on topics like the Arjun. He has run campaigns in the past against Indian programs, benefiting foreign vendors. He then claims innocence. Things were so pathetic that a former Naval senior officer took him to task in a public event. Aroor barely squirmed out of that one, but had no answers to give.

Pratik - if you haven't noticed Aroors proclivities in the past, please do so now. Go look through the comments section and see the filth that makes it through despite ostensible moderation. That moderation is more to prevent criticisms of Aroor.

He doesn't lessen speculation, he misleads people and increases it.

What is worse is the complete lack of ethics. He takes other peoples work and puts his own watermark on it. Shameless! Those are not even his to begin with! He has been scolded in public, his behaviour as a hack led to angry R&D folks asking for reporters to be evicted from the Agni launch control room at one time, and even written reports alluded to the media campaign being misleading. Aroor was the one who caused all this, but remains absolutely shameless.

Sorry, but thats not being easily misled, its the arrogance of an individual with zero self achievements to his credit, but who is using the hard work of others to rise. And in the process, attacks those very people thanks to whose work he gets eyeballs and takes credit for their work to boot.

Seen the huge livefist watermarks in the above pics? Do you think Aroor made those CAD/CAM images? No - he stole them from public presentations and instead of admitting where the sourcing is from, claims they are from "sources". This sort of lousy behaviour is what makes Indian journalism so pathetic. Take a look at Bill Sweetman of AWST or Trimble of Flightglobal and how they credit data. Guys like those can actually string together their own interpretation of complex events. Trimble once wrote a 3-4 line precis of a jargon filled failure analysis of a JSF analysis. Its stuff like this which is assumed to be the basis of competent journalism, but Aroor lacks it.

In India, compare him to TS Sub. of the Hindu, Shukla of BStd., New IE's Tarmak or several others, and this joker is arguably amongst the most pathetic.

The reason I am calling him out is simple - far too many people take this twit to be a serious commentator. He is not.

Ah yes, THAT there sent a shiver up my spine thinking of the flow physics inside...

No offense, Singha ji. Just having some fun...