Bharat Rakshak

Which Civil Aviation are you talking about? Manufacturing helicopter cabins? Is that what you call revolutionary technology? Can you please enlighten me what so called Revolutionary/Path breaking technology, Indian PVT industry has come up with?

I completely agree that the way most of the PSUs are functioning today is less than optimal to the point of being criminally inefficient. But that does not mean the PVT sector is doing any better. The Indian PVT sector is plagued with an attitude of minimum risk and maximum assured profit. So the question will be how this attitude can be changed. My only concern is that treating PVT sector as the magical drug for all types of disease is a wrong assessment and the problem is far more complicated.

I think it is worse than that. They are also bound by moral rules that causes investors and shareholders in India to turn away from things that cause death and injury. An individual Indian investor who has to choose between investing his money in shares for a company which makes guns and another which makes medicines will invest in the latter because the karma imposed by anyone getting killed by the products of the gun manufacturing company cannot be compared with the favorable karma acquired by investing in a pharma company. And I am not talking about two-bit small shareholders with less than 10,000 shares. I am talking of big investors who can sink in money to own 5 to 50% of an arms making firm.

Powerful lobbying exists for alcohol tobacco and firearms industries in US. Despite their ill effects, they do their bit in marketing death and attracting investors. But this wont happen in India, where social stigma trumps discretion/moderation. Any common household items could be lethal. OTOH, a gun could be just for deterrance, with no intention of use.

Investments and profits just that. They dont come attached with karmic goods or bads - except in India

Shiv, I think you are taking this pacifism and karma fear thing of some so called business communities a little to far. First of all they perpetuate the stereotypes that pakis love to harp on, namely the weak, cowardly and vegetarian Hindu bania. Also, isn't this the very same community that has no qualms about paying bribes and doing all sorts of unsavoury and ruthless things in order to further their aims and beat their rivals, in fact from what I have read, a significant amount of the so called Gujarat riots were these very same people settling scores and weeding out rivals. So, I don't think this is a very significant factor in holding back defence investment in the private sector. Come on, are we all that saintly?

Arun this is the first time anyone has mentioned this on BRF - and if a first mention is "going too far", I disagree. First I am going to leave out the "What Pakis might say" part of it. That is a separate issue which I might address later

To me there are quite a few social indicators in India that suggest a tendency towards pacfism (as well as a historic mention of this pacifism in ancient texts incuding the Greek "Indica"). But I must admit that these ideas might not have have occurred to me out of the blue had I not been prompted by others who have made observations that point to a particular slant in Indian behavior. I mentioned an observation by a friend of mine but Gurcharan Das's observations about community and business come to mind. Mind you Gurcharan Das is a bitter critic of Nehruvian socialism and a staunch backer of private industry, but he makes some pertinent social observations about business and industry in India. So my ideas are not totally drawn out of thin air and probably not totally without foundation.

That does not mean that all Indians are like this but there is a fairly significant proportion of wealthy Indians who are capable of investing in industry who come from social backgrounds of business where investment in weapons and destructive material is not even considered. Many of these business communities have centuries of history of business risk taking and profit making but very very few will delve into anything to do with war materiel.

The British had ships built and workshops for arms in India. The sort of labor that goes into this material always came from communities who dealt with leather, wood and metal. Thy were invariably working class belonging to varna that were never business leaders unlike vysyas. Mind you I am not trying to blame the British or Indian society. The Brits wanted a certain type of help from Indians; they got secretarial and clerical help from Brahmins, they got workshop/building help from the shudra communities. They got only business competition from the Vysyas whom they tried to crush. Indian business communities are heroes because they held out while others slaved, although some did profit by conniving with the Brits. But they could hold out only in non military business enterprises. There was no way on earth these business communities could compete with the Brits in making arms without being crushed and imprisoned as rebels.

So while private enterprise survived the Brits, arms making skill in India missed the entire industrial revolution

The genesis of "weak and cowardly" part was partly a British creation. But that is OT for this thread. Will be happy to post my take somewhere else.

Walchand Hirachand - who established HAL with a license from US Curtiss Wright to manufacture P-35 & P-40 fighters for USAAF - was a Digambar Jain.

L&T has a shipyard for submarines that is building puny patrol boats. Pipavav has a shipyard capable of building destroyers but building OPVs. A M Naik and Nikhil Gandhi are vegetarian Gujaratis. The former took a decision to invest in A&D while the latter is a family business started & promoted by two brothers.

The notion that Indian business communities have ethical/moral/religious dilemmas when it comes to national defence is incorrect.

Again, this is a false notion spread by PSU's that Arms Industry originated in India only after Nehruvian Socialism.

Wadias built warships as a private shipyard. Also, there were lots of private firms - both British & Indian owned - that manufactured bullets and cartridges all over India. Post Independence, these were shut down by the government. One of the reasons for the poor marksmanship of Indian police forces - barring select few "Anti Terrorist Squad" members - is because of an acute shortage of rounds, and the lead time from order to delivery by central OFB.

Nationalization has had an anti-national effect. It never came out before the Tatra scam, but defence industrialization was the hardest hit.

http://mha.nic.in/pdfs/AaAMPolicy080410.pdf

One can design or manufacture everything except anything that matters.

Some more policy pearls of wisdom!



Muzzle Loading in 1991!!!

Let's not blame the British for our Public Sector incompetency & mismanagement – or religious/cultural sentiments of Private Sector industrialists.

Despite the good argument by Mr. Shiv as usual, I have to go with tsarkar on this one. I would rate this idea of Indian corporate pacifism at the same level as the so called martial races myth.

No Siree. This is pure guesswork and has no basis in reality unless you mean the Bihar and Bengal workshops producing weapons for dacoits and feudal lords. Even then the cartridges were imported. India did not even have the basic chemical manufacturing capacity to set up explosives factories. No need to make up stories about India's past industrial prowess.

Here is a 1941 academic paper from the IISc archives. Read the greyed part carefully sir.

Lack of knowledge of engineering and chemistry save for a few has ensured that we don't even understand the history of our nation and depend on fond delusions that pass for our views of India. A different aspect of the same national ignorance is being discussed in the Out of India thread.

I would recommend reading the full pdf linked above. Sulphuric acid is a basic chemical needed to produce explosives. By 1941 countries like UK, France, Germany and the US and Belgium were all producing over 1,000,000 (one million) tons of Sulphuric acid each per year. And India? India was producing 20,000 tons. That is 2% of what Belgium could produce.

The paper goes on to observe that India's requirement for Ammonium Sulphate by the time of writing was 100,000 to 120,000 tons. But India was producing 20,000 onlee. The information of where India was in the 1940s is all there. One only needs to do an honest search, assuming of course that one has the basic technical knowledge of what to search for. If you lack the information any gassing can pass for truth.

Shiv, manufacture does not always mean "manufacture from raw material phase".

Even Shivalik and IAC ships were initiated using Russian steel, with Indian steel coming into play during latter phase of construction. France supplies HLES steel for the Scorpenes being built in India. http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 373848.ece
The first Su-30MKI from “raw materials” phase flew in 2011, and was probably the 50th or 60th bird “built” by HAL, the earlier birds “built” by HAL used Russian "raw materials". Out of the 272 Sukhois, only around 80+42 will be built from Indian "raw materials". Rest 150 from SKD/CKD kits.

So if you quote lack of sulphuric acid or cordite manufacturing factories then as hampering ammunition factories then, by that yardstick, we’re still pathetically backward since we do not produce steel for Shivaliks and Scorpenes, and that DMR249A and B were developed only late in the last decade.

If India was so backward in the 40’s, then why was private manufacture prohibited in the 50’s? Why wasn’t every Indian effort encouraged?

There was a huge demand for hunting and personal arms before the war, primarily among the British, and during WW2, and these entities converted to manufacturing military material. Once such company, owned by my grandfather’s friend, profited during the war, but policies in the 50’s forced it to close. The owner lost his investments. I was too young to remember the details.

Coming back to the original point, Walchand Hirachand established HAL and HSL in the pre-independence era. HSL, from establishment in the 40’s, was churning out ships by 1948.

It has built more ships between 40’s to 60s – and of better quality - before nationalization than from 60’s to 90’s after nationalization. HAL & HSL will never officially divulge their pre-nationalization histories, because it will put their current performance to shame.

But of course, by your yardstick, Walchand Hirachand, a Digambar Jain, and his efforts, are just “stories” and “gas”, and A M Naik or Nikhil Gandhi’s investments are still not substantial enough, or others have religious &/or moral scruples.

Shiv, I get your argument regarding the backwardness of Indian industry in the past and also currently, and its slow process of catching up with the west. All the same, if I were to take your example of sulphuric acid production and apply that to your argument regarding the reluctance of some Indians to invest in arms producing industry, the question one would get is "what possible harm can a pacifist see in investing in the sulphuric acid industry or rather the chemical industry?" Surely, sulphuric acid has more applications than just explosives production. What I am trying to convey is that I agree with your theory regarding pure industrial backwardness holding us back, rather than our pacifistic attitude. Even if we did not outright invest in arms manufacturing, if we had good enough technology in related spheres, surely it wouldn't be the uphill climb its proving to be currently. For instance, even if Japan does not have nuclear weapons currently, surely they can make one in a short period of time given how industrially and technologically advanced they are.

+1

Shiv in 2011 UQ produced 1.2 million tons H2So4. The latest date for India I could find was 2007 and it was 12 million tons. India was indeed incredibly backwards at/near independence. Which amplifies even more IG's economic incompetence in leading India to meager 2-3% growth on such a low base. However things have changed much for the better from an manufacturing/industrial base today. Now we have no one to blame but ourselves ( and Socialism). In the most competitive economy in the world, Umrikah, Indians have a per capita GDP twice the US average ( Poaks have half the US average BTW). Poverty and backwardness in India owes its existence to the Gandee family, Kangress party and Karl Marx in that order. I think from now on all slums in India should be named after the Gandee family rather than infrastructure projects as they are more responsible than anyone else for their existence.

Interesting..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrorheological_fluid

So, what about the M777's light weight materials being incorporated into it?


new 155mm 45-calibre gun that could take a decade to develop and field.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=19302

TSarkar your arguments are fine but none of them really mean anything more than I have indicated. Europe had war economies upto 1945 and they were not exporting raw material to India. Any exports to India were partially or fully finished goods for assembly. I mentioned ships in my original post and said that ships were being made. Do you really know what Walchand Hirachand was doing and what happened to his factory during the war and who was running it? Will you Google for it or would you like me to post scanned pages from the relevant book on the history of HAL?

If India was backward in the 40s it means only means that it has had less time to undergo an industrial revolution than if it had 200 years. I know you want to hammer the point about stupid governments but that is an old well hammered one which as you have yourself proved makes you ignore facts just for the pleasure of hammering government policy. We spend so much effort hammering government policies (as you have done yet again in your post) that we are blind to other contributing factors. This is called missing the trees for the forest. A one track rant about governmental policy with no interest or awareness of a wide field of other factors just keeps everyone dumbed down. What the mind does not know the eye does not see.

I really don't want to push the pacifist theory very far without collecting more data, but I am certain that investment in business enterprises have been led by particular vysya/business communities like Marwaris, Shettys and others who still run businesses today that were started a century or more ago well before independence. If you look at entire communities and see what they do - you find them in agricultural goods distribution and sale, cotton and jute, edible oils, consumer good, jewellery, gems, cement, fabrics, mills and machinery. They were never investors in the production of swords and rifles or even carpentry, woodwork, rearing of horses, or in leather goods, or in animal husbandry needed to supply meat to the men of the armed forces. These latter categories of business were more connected with the military up to the first world war rather than the traditional occupations of the business communities that catered to the civilian population. Steel became crucial by WW1, but I have not gone into a history of steel production in India. Yet.

The "mills and machinery" part is relevant because it was investment in mills that led to machine tools and power. It was visionaries like the ancestral Ambani and Kasturbhai Lalbhai who started competing with the British to acquire machinery for mills after they had cornered the cotton export business in the early 20th century. The Brits were in India to make money and not see natives pulling the rug from underneath their feet. But pull the rug the natives did and gave India its first industries. Still the Brits had a restrictive policy on the setting up of industries by locals because that meant that industries in Britain lost business. They did their darndest to thwart those industries (Gurcharan Das has some details in his book "India Unbound") And this restrictive policy was even for industries for civilian goods.

If Indian business houses were falling over each other to produce arms for Britain's war effort, I have not found any data about it, but will continue searching. But it seems likely that these business houses, who wanted the Brits out, would probably not have invested in anything to help the Brits win their damned war. So there is a combination of British restriction on industry and traditional Indian preference for certain businesses that I am sure contributed to the specific industrial state of affairs we had by 1950. But by 1950 Europe had 150 to 200 years of industrial revolution behind it.

I think a visit to the thread about Industrial development and military aviation in India will show what India had by way of engineers by1950. I put in some research when I started that thread and that thread is relevant to this topic. I think that if we have to be fair to ourselves we need to stop flagellating Indians of the past and present and spend more time looking at the data that is available rather than having a rant about politicians which is about a far as we get on here. After a stage the ignorance and political rhetoric that gets bandied about as wisdom is tiresome. It only reveals ignorance and supreme comfort in remaining cocooned within that ignorance.

Please have a look at this thread. Just 3 pages so far..
Industrial development & the evolution of military aviation

^I have been a consistent follower of that thread and it is indeed eye-opening. If there are statistics to back up the aforementioned pacifistic attitude among Indian business communities, it is indeed disturbing, particularly if it still persists. I would rank such biases along with the stigma placed upon overseas travel for thousands of years in India. Such tendencies, if they exist in a significant way, should be exposed to be the asinine and prejudicial attitudes that they are. They must be decried as anti-national and backward. However, I strongly agree with you regarding the past and present industrial backwardness that exists in India. We should expand and progress in our industries and be known as a Industrial power and not just a software powerhouse. Blaming the govt for everything and conveniently forgetting our own weaknesses and backwardness (thanks in no small amount to the British and the previous invaders) is to fall prey to a cognitive bias. It is similar to some people I know, who rant and rave with unparalleled fury about the faults of this nation and its government (whom I despise with every atom in my body), but cant be bothered to cast their vote on election day.

It is, as you said earlier, wrong to pin pacifism solely on specific communities and it would be OT to even continue discussing that here. But a reading of Indian history suggests that India has thrown up pacifism time and again through history. Without expanding on that in this thread, I would like to point out that India has, like any other human population a healthy (or unhealthy?) constituency of people who are decidedly NOT pacifist.

I think that the last 200 years of Indian history were particularly "internally divisive" in that pacifism among people was allowed to survive (because it was harmless to the leadership) , while the kings and militaries came under control of various foreign/alien parties - with the Brits being the most important. Trade and profiteering in civil goods was encouraged so long as the Brits benefited. Those same 200 years coincided with the industrial revolution and a revolution in military affairs so to speak. Independent Indian armies of 1750 had horses, elephants, rifles, cannons and swords; navies, such as existed, were sailboats. 200 years later Indian technology remained at that level but wars were being fought with motorized vehicles and aircraft, submarines and aircraft carriers. India missed those 200 years of industrialization as pacifism was never quelled, but militarism was opposed - with the most significant early event being the 1857 uprising - rapidly quelled. After 1857 the British crown took over control of India from the East India Company and they were strict about who could build or bear arms. This happened in the decades before the internal combustion engine and aircraft and the restriction on military technology lasted till 1947.

From 1857 onwards the British took care to disarm and keep at arms length the pesky politically active SDRE Bengalees (east Indians) and the "non martial" South. the simultaneously ensured the loyalty and employment of the Gunga Din "martial" North Western Mussalman and some Punjabis who were armed with British weapons. Not locally made Indian weapons. Even if anything was locally fashioned, the steel and critical components including machinery came from the Queendom. All this is recorded history freely available for anyone who actually wants to read before giving lectures about socialism.

The longer we keep bashing Indira Gandhi and Nehru and socialism deluding ourselves that they were the only factors that kept India down, the longer we are clutching onto our own tunnel vision about past events, blinding ourselves to a rich and complex history. We are showing the same degree of dumb idiocy that the imbeciles who coined the Aryan Invasion Theory displayed - in believing what we like and ignoring, or worse, not even looking for other contributory factors that made India what it is today.

Shiv, beautifully put as usual. I also sometimes feel that the narrow focus of our wrath on certain leaders (whom I cannot satisfactorily deride with mere words) and organizations prevent us from seeing the bigger picture. This if unchecked would lead to a blame the outsider complex that is disgustingly prevalent in most Muslim communities/nations. Anyway, do tell me if you are continuing this topic in any other thread, it is indeed fascinating.

SECOND FLIGHT OF THE INDIGENOUS WANKEL ENGINE FOR A UAV: A DRDO/CSIR PARTNERSHIP

The second flight test of the indigenous 55 hp Wankel Rotary Combustion Engine was carried out on 20th June 2012 on the Aeronautical Development Establishment’s (ADE), NISHANT UAV at Kolar airfield. The engine was the second flight worthy prototype delivered to ADE by NAL.

The flight took off at 1430 hrs in the afternoon and climbed to an altitude of 1.9 km. The total mission duration was 1 hour 45 min. The UAV was recovered safely at the intended place at the dried-up Muduvadi lake, after the successful mission. The event was witnessed by key personnel: Dr V K Saraswat, SA to RM, DG DRDO, Shri G Elangovan, CC R&D (Avionics & Aero), Shri PS Krishnan, Director, ADE, Shri Shyam Chetty, Director, NAL, Dr C P Ramanarayanan, Director, VRDE and Dr K Tamilmani, CE CEMILAC, the Regional Director, RCMA, and other senior officers.

The indigenous engine development program was originated from DRDO through Vehicles Research & Development Establishment (VRDE), Ahmednagar, and was jointly designed and developed by CSIR-NAL, VRDE, and ADE. Under this program the 55 hp Wankel engine was developed for ADE’s NISHANT UAV. NAL designed and developed the core engine, VRDE and ADE were in-charge of peripheral systems and flight testing respectively. As per the MOU two flight worthy proto type engines were delivered. First engine was delivered in January 2009 and completed a 40 min maiden successful flight on 31st march 2009. The flown engine underwent 20 hours and 10 hours of pre and post flight tests respectively. The post-flight test was carried out and confirmed that engine’s performance was matching with the pre-flight performance.

The Wankel engine is the first of its kind that was totally designed and developed in the country. Very few countries in the world have the capability to develop and master this technology. The engine was cleared for flight after rigorous ground endurance test runs. A provisional flight clearance for the indigenous prototype engine was given by the certifying agency, RCMA which comes under CEMILAC. The engine performed very well in the flight, meeting all the requirements of the Air Vehicle.

This type of engines are used for powering smaller air vehicles and also in automotive (Mazda, and Racing Cars), out-board motor for boats and other industrial applications in particular for power generation, typically up to 80 kW.

Tele medicine

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=19345

They got the ERNET, BMD network, defence network, coastal radar network, now tele medicine, we will probably need a Judicial net as well networking courts and police stations

huge opportunities for network backbone business

Any updates on the National civilian airliner project?
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-04-16/india/31348927_1_national-civil-aircraft-national-aerospace-laboratories-mahindra-aerospace

A very very informative video on Electronic Warfare. The topic of the video is "History of Silicon Valley" which is quite interesting as it tells how US invested in their institutions , universities which all started due their Military engagement in WW 2. Please see the video and you would know why the US is an innovation hub and would remain so in the foreseeable future.
I seriously hope GOI replicates something on these lines.


http://youtu.be/ZTC_RxWN_xo

Burdened defence shipyards embrace private sector.

Today, a day after handing over a brand new stealth frigate, INS Sahyadri, to the Indian Navy, warship builder Mazagon Dock Ltd (MDL) announced the formation of two joint venture companies to help address an order book too large to handle by itself.

In a statement, it says MDL “has signed shareholder agreements for setting up JVs with private shipyards Pipavav Defence & Offshore Engineering Co Ltd, Mumbai, and Larsen & Toubro for construction of surface warships and conventional submarines, respectively”.

The Ventures, it says, “will leverage the strengths of the respective JV partners in the public and private sectors to work out a collaborative strategy for taking the nation towards self-sufficiency in warship construction”. And, that MDL might explore additional ventures “with other leading shipbuilders” for “diversifying its product profile”. The order book would be the envy of any warship builder. Under construction in MDL’s berths are three destroyers of Project 15A — INS Kolkata, INS Kochi and INS Chennai — joining the navy’s fleet early next year. Also on order are four more destroyers of Project 15B, to be followed by four stealth frigates of the so-called Project 17A.

In its highly secured East Yard, MDL is fabricating six Scorpene submarines, all of which are scheduled (after three years of delay) to join the navy between 2015 and 2018. Also looming on the horizon is Project 75I, which involves building six more conventional submarines, in parallel with Project 75.

However, India’s premier defence shipyard has neither the space nor the personnel to handle this workload. So, MDL wants to farm out work to the private sector, capitalising on newly created warship building capacities in shipyards built by Pipavav and L&T.

“We will synergise our capabilities with the infrastructure and expertise in the private sector,” says MDL’s chairman, Rear Admiral (Retired) Rahul Kumar Shrawat. “MDL began identifying a suitable JV partner last year. Some major players were dissatisfied with the process (protests from shipyards last year led the MoD to cancel MDL’s announced JV with Pipavav, and to issue guidelines for forming JVs in February). We restarted the process, following the MoD’s guidelines…and our team has now identified L&T as a partner for submarine building, and Pipavav for surface ships.”

MoD sources said another defence shipyard, Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers (GRSE), Kolkata, is also exploring JVs with the private sector. GRSE is full to capacity with building four anti-submarine corvettes in Project 28. It will also build three stealth frigates (in cooperation with MDL) in Project 17A. Observers of India’s shipbuilding programmes regard this shift of production to the private sector as inevitable. The Indian Navy, the fastest growing of the three services, has a growing requirement of warships as South Block pays increased attention to India’s maritime interests, a focus intensified by Washington’s “pivot to Asia” and China’s growing assertiveness in the Western Pacific. In line with this trend, several private shipyards — including L&T, Pipavav and ABG — have built capabilities.

Still, L&T, with its proud engineering pedigree and its accomplishment in the Arihant programme, hardly regards itself as a junior partner to MDL. L&T has long coveted the long-delayed Project 75I, which involves building six conventional submarines for the navy in parallel with the Scorpenes. Says M V Kotwal, who oversees L&T’s defence business: “The JV can assist MDL with its current orders, but L&T is not foreclosing its options to pursue submarine orders independently. The MoD knows that India has two independent entities that are capable of building submarines: MDL and L&T.”

L&T also challenges the navy’s insistence on building the first two submarines of Project 75I abroad, with the next four being built in India. “L&T has invested heavily in skills and capital and the government must realise the navy’s requirements can be met in this country. So, the MoD should drastically cut down on importing naval platforms,” the company said.

Thanks.


(BTW, you need to work on embedding youtube stuff.)

Excellent. Looks like L&T at least is going to batter its way into the game big time and refuse to be pushed around. Our marine future is looking up.

The important thing is to compare the speed of Indian development to that in other nations such as South Korea. South Korea was more backward than India post-WW2 and also has fewer natural resources.

As we are well aware, India is 100% dependent on imports for even basic electronic components such as calculators and wrist watches.

there is a good news, Discovery channel will show a new series on DRDO research projects. So hope we may get good insight.

Pranav,
Can you make a business case/proposal where you can manufacture electronic components, sell it , make a profit and show that it will be a sustainable venture for the next 10 years?
After all, any investor, including GoI , will not want to see its money go wasted?

But allow me to re-phrase what you want to say.
"GoI must encourage and nurture an indigenous electronic industry where there is both technology, know-how,talent and manpower for all kinds of electronic equipment, including high end stuff. This is a strategic industry that GoI must invest whether there is money to be made or not."
Is that correct?

Unfortunately there is no clear answer to this. Did we miss the bus ?Maybe . Maybe not! Can we now manufacure high end, strategic stuff -yes (AESA T/R modules, mmW seeker from RCI Imarat) . Do we need a general purpose microprocessor ( not the PC kind) with an completely Indian arch. for strategic purposes. Maybe! But I do not know how sustainable this is. But maybe, when a proven microsprocessor exists, it will , by itself spawn new industries local and specific to India- maybe!
I agree partly to what you said. But this is a industry with a range of products selling stuff from Rs.10 a piece to Rs. 200,000 . The prospect boggles me.

what is the probable timing..

keep spreading lies, it's just that nobody believes them when a quick google search proves you wrong.

They are still advertising as coming soon. So may be in coming week, they'll show the series.

Bharat Forge starts trial production of aerospace components.

Bharat Forge Ltd (BFL), the Pune-based Indian multinational and the flagship company of the Kalyani Group, has begun trial production of titanium and specialty steel forgings for the aerospace industry.

The forgings major said it was in advanced stages of manufacturing aircraft components. ''We are seeing a lot of traction in this segment, and we are trying to build capacity to service aerospace customers,'' Amit Kalyani, executive director of BFL, said.

Kalyani said the company was focusing on adding value to products and leveraging existing capabilities to intensify exports while focusing on the passenger car and light commercial vehicle segment on the domestic front.Besides the existing markets of the US and Europe, he said, Bharat Forge is planning to increase market penetration and enter new geographies.

The non-auto business accounts for around 38 per cent of Bharat Forge's current sales. ''Going forward, we are targeting over 50 per cent to come from the non-auto business,'' Kalyani said.The company is also setting up a new plant in Indore to service auto manufacturers around the region. However, the plan and the product portfolio will be decided over the next 18 months.''We will set up a plant there and make certain products that are not being made here,'' Kalyani pointed out.

Bharat Forge has, meanwhile, made long-term strategic alliances with titanium manufacturers for supply of raw material and technology for forging aircraft components, Subodh Tandale, executive director of the company said on the sidelines of the company's AGM.''Products are being identified and we will begin trial production for some aircraft manufacturers,'' he said, adding that this was being done at the existing facilities in view of the heavy investments and approvals that normally take two to five years.

Bharat Forge is the largest exporter of auto components from India and leading chassis component manufacturer in the world.A technology driven global leader, the company has end-to-end capability and manufacturing footprint across India, Germany, Sweden, the US and China.The company manufactures a wide range of highly engineered critical and safety components for several sectors, including automobile, oil and gas, rail and marine, energy (renewable and non-renewable), construction and mining and general engineering.

RIL lines up close to $1 billion plan in aerospace sector, Nashik may be HQ for new business.

Reliance Industries Ltd (RIL) is expected to invest close to $1 billion over the next few years and hire around 1,500 people in its new aerospace division.Details of RIL's plans were confirmed to ET by executives close to the matter who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

Early this month, the Mukesh Ambani-led company applied for an industrial licence with the Department of Industrial Policy and Promotion to "design, develop, manufacture, equipment and components, including airframe, engine, radars, avionics and accessories for military and civilian aircraft, helicopters, unmanned airborne vehicles and aerostats".

This decision by RIL comes after the creation of two new entities: Reliance Aerospace Technologies Pvt Ltd and Reliance Security Solutions Ltd.

The creation of these new businesses was set in motion more than a year ago when RIL created an entity called "new business" and hired the then Boeing India chief, Vivek Lall, for launching its aerospace and homeland security divisions.

The application with DIPP further discloses that "the company will also undertake research and produce new aerospace technologies, materials, components and equipment and test and carry out their certification".

RIL will also join hands with global players to bring in sophisticated civil and military aerospace technologies into the country, executives close to the matter said. It will also prioritise research and development and testing and certification of new aerospace technologies, materials, components and equipment.

In its application to DIPP, RIL has indicated Nashik as the headquarters for its aerospace division - the town is expected to be the centre of the proposed manufacturing hub. The company, executives said, will gradually set up more manufacturing units across the country with the aim of making India a global hub in aerospace manufacturing.

RIL also intends to align with smaller players and train them to produce high-quality products for the airline industry.

RIL is looking at creating synergies to begin with, until it develops technologies - and aircraft - on its own. It is in advanced talks with global aircraft majors for JVs and strategic collaborations, executives close to the matter said.

The reason I have a very good feeling about this is that Reliance has every incentive, once it learns the ropes, to ditch its foreign joint venture partner and do everything( and keep all the profits) itself. If this is duplicated across other sectors India will be freed of imports. The money was just not there in the past to make it worthwhile. And even if there was money there were no private companies to do the job. Now both are present. DPSUs, on the other hand, will be happy turning screw drivers forever and why not? Lastly, if you are a foreign arms merchant good luck trying to bribe your product past the Reliance product (ala T-90 vs Arjun). Compared to the Reliance lobbyist network these jokers are rank amateurs.

Maybe. But this argument does not disgust us as much as the fact that 600 million Indians defecate in the open. India has toilets for 400 million people, and that number translates to eight times more toilets in India than South Korea needs. South Korea could stop building toilets after it reached a threshold figure of perhaps 20 million toilets. India has to build 300 million more toilets. India was importing its food, which now has to feed 1100 million. South Korea feeds only 50 million. India's economy has been geared for human development at a basic food, water, education level.

If you are a young and fit 30 year old today - you were born in 1982. Compare statistics like maternal mortality, infant mortality, literacy, and food production tonnage and number of school and college seats available in 1962 and 2012 to get an idea of what India has been doing. Compare with Korea and see how much less they had to do to meet basic needs. I think we have developed a kind of "Islamic egalitarianist, all people and nations are equal" thought process where we compare India with South Korea imagining that they both started equal and S Korea ran ahead.