Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2012

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 31 Jul 2012 18:16

http://www.voltairenet.org/Blackwater-Xe-The-Secret-US-War-in wrote:a covert forward operating base run by the US Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) in the Pakistani port city of Karachi, members of an elite division of Blackwater are at the center of a secret program in which they plan targeted assassinations of suspected Taliban and al-Qaeda operatives inside and outside Pakistan.

The Blackwater operatives also gather intelligence and help direct a secret US military drone bombing campaign that runs parallel to the well-documented CIA predator strikes, according to a well-placed source within the US military intelligence apparatus.

Captain John Kirby, the spokesperson for Admiral Michael Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told the Nation, “We do not discuss current operations one way or the other, regardless of their nature.” Meanwhile a defense official specifically denied that Blackwater performs work on drone strikes or intelligence for JSOC in Pakistan. “We don’t have any contracts to do that work for us. We don’t contract that kind of work out, period,” the official said. “There has not been, and are not now, contracts between JSOC and that organization for these types of services.” The Pentagon has stated bluntly, “There are no US military strike operations being conducted in Pakistan.”

Blackwater’s founder Erik Prince contradicted this statement in an interview, telling Vanity Fair that Blackwater works with US Special Forces in identifying targets and planning missions, citing an operation in Syria. The magazine also published a photo of a Blackwater base near the Afghanistan–Pakistan border.

Jeremy Scahill’s military intelligence source said that the previously unreported program is distinct from the CIA assassination program, which the agency’s director, Leon Panetta, announced he had canceled in June 2009. “This is a parallel operation to the CIA,” said the source. “They are two separate beasts.” The program puts Blackwater at the epicenter of a US military operation within the borders of a nation against which the US has not declared war—knowledge that could further strain the already tense relations between the US and Pakistan. In 2006, the two countries struck a deal that authorized JSOC to enter Pakistan to hunt Osama bin Laden with the understanding that Pakistan would deny it had given permission. Officially, the US is not supposed to have any active military operations in that country.

Blackwater, which also goes by the names Xe Services and US Training Center, has denied that the company operates in Pakistan. “Xe Services has only one employee in Pakistan performing construction oversight for the US government,” Blackwater spokesperson Mark Corallo said in a statement to the Nation, adding that the company has “no other operations of any kind in Pakistan.”

A former senior executive at Blackwater confirmed the military intelligence source’s claim that the company is working in Pakistan for the CIA and JSOC. He said that Blackwater is also working for the Pakistani government on a subcontract with an Islamabad-based security firm that puts US Blackwater operatives on the ground with Pakistani forces in “counterterrorism” operations, including house raids and border interdictions, in the North-West Frontier Province and elsewhere in Pakistan. This arrangement allows the Pakistani government to utilize former US Special Operations forces that now work for Blackwater while denying an official US military presence in the country. He also confirmed that Blackwater has a facility in Karachi and has personnel deployed elsewhere in Pakistan.

The covert program in Pakistan dates back to at least 2007. The current head of JSOC is Vice Admiral William McRaven, who took over the post from General Stanley McChrystal, who headed JSOC from 2003 to 2008 before being named the top US commander in Afghanistan. Blackwater’s presence in Pakistan is “not really visible, and that’s why nobody has cracked down on it,” said Scahill’s military source. Blackwater’s operations in Pakistan, he adds, are not done through State Department contracts or publicly identified defense contracts. “It’s Blackwater via JSOC, and it’s a classified no-bid [contract] approved on a rolling basis.”

Blackwater’s first known contract with the CIA for operations in Afghanistan was awarded in 2002 and was for work along the Afghanistan–Pakistan border.

According to Scahill’s source, Blackwater has effectively marketed itself as a company whose operatives have “conducted lethal direct action missions and now, for a price, you can have your own planning cell. JSOC just ate that up.” Blackwater’s Pakistan JSOC contracts are secret and are therefore shielded from public oversight, he said. In addition to planning drone strikes and operations against suspected al-Qaeda and Taliban forces in Pakistan for both JSOC and the CIA, the Blackwater team in Karachi also helps plan missions for JSOC inside Uzbekistan against the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan.

Since President Barack Obama was inaugurated, the United States has expanded drone-bombing raids in Pakistan. Obama first ordered a drone strike against targets in North and South Waziristan on January 23, 2009, and the strikes have been conducted consistently ever since. The number of strike orders by the Obama administration has now surpassed the number during the Bush era in Pakistan, inciting fierce criticism from Pakistan and some US lawmakers over civilian deaths.

The military intelligence source also confirmed that Blackwater continues to work for the CIA on its drone-bombing program in Pakistan, as previously reported in the New York Times, but added that Blackwater is working on JSOC’s drone bombings as well. “It’s Blackwater running the program for both CIA and JSOC,” said the source. When civilians are killed, “people go, ‘Oh, it’s the CIA doing crazy shit again unchecked.’ Well, at least 50 percent of the time, that’s JSOC [hitting] somebody they’ve identified through HUMINT [human intelligence] or they’ve culled the intelligence themselves or it’s been shared with them and they take that person out and that’s how it works.”

In addition to working on covert action planning and drone strikes, Blackwater SELECT also provides private guards to perform the sensitive task of security for secret US drone bases, JSOC camps, and Defense Intelligence Agency camps inside Pakistan.

Blackwater’s ability to survive against odds by reinventing and rebranding itself is most evident in Afghanistan, where the company continues to work for the US military, the CIA, and the State Department despite intense criticism and almost weekly scandals.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 31 Jul 2012 20:12

Altair wrote:BTW, why did we promise power in the first place?

After power, it will be Siachen/Saltoro. After all, aren't we trying to bribe Pakistan so that we can grow at a scorching 10% GDP for the next 25 years ?

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 31 Jul 2012 20:54

SSridhar wrote:
Altair wrote:BTW, why did we promise power in the first place?
After power, it will be Siachen/Saltoro. After all, aren't we trying to bribe Pakistan so that we can grow at a scorching 10% GDP for the next 25 years ?

Siachen will be with India. There are no two ways about that.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 31 Jul 2012 21:28

Why does opposition to Khilafat from a Muslim have to imply "secularism"!!! All it showed was the possibility of an internal friction and factional infighting within the islamist body - that could and should have been used, instead of legitimizing a large number of Muslim activists through open politics of muslim identity exclusivism.

That the INC saw Mahasabha as the competing enemy in the same political base while it collaborated and helped ML - should be obvious from what happened when Bose was still a loyal congrezman in Bengal, in the CMC elections and legislature. INC top brass's close confidante Nalini Sarkar helped to bring the Fazlul Haqu KPP and ML together, since INC was just short of majority - for no other calculation than the growing hatred and fear of the Mahasabha, and preventing the latter's spread. This was how ML-Haque consolidated its hold on Bengal admin machinery, awarded itself disporoportionate represnetations - and INC leaders dared not protest ML action for fear of appearing "communal". However this type pof political skull-duggery in favouring ML power was not seen as "communal" or ML directly seen as communal.

As far as I know, even Bose - with his immense hatred of Shyamaprasad, and great fondness for "nationalist muslims" [the Nehruvian-Gandhi coinage and pressure for the term is known], wrote somewhere that he was baffled by the "strange reaction" of the "nationalist Muslims" to the "communal award of 1934" - implying the "baffling" behaviour of "nationalist muslims" welcoming and not opposing the communal award.

We need to see the difference in treatment - in the same time instant - meted out by INC to Mahasabha and the ML, to see justification for what I suggested as the prime driver of INC in those days. This should not be stretched to imply that intra-Muslim factional fights imply claims of "secularism" or nationalism or anti-separatism. Some islamists did not talk of separatism in their time frames, and some lived long enough to take advantage of the situation to push for separatism. Separatism is inherent in Islamist thought - even in those against it politically ata certain stage, and Maududi's own works can be combed for the indications.

Indian Muslims in their political activist phase - predominantly were swayed by a concept of separatism, as exclusive separate socities, [with exceptions of the relatively insignficant minorities like Azeemullah or Ashfaqulla]. It was a matter of tactics and opportunity, and the question of land ownership that influenced what they said officially at any given historical stage.

Actually there was opposition to even pampering Jinnah in 1916 from within the congrez. Who was instrumental in moving for the pact from within the congrez? MKG was most keen, but who brought MKG in from SA and to negate whom? What politics of regional dominance and competition was going on within the congress at the time? Who needed to be cornered and sidelined within the AICC factionalism?

All this belongs to other threads, but let us not forget those non-Muslims who helped the muslim identity politics to become what it has become not by opposing it and eliciting counter-reaction as apologetics suggest - but by actively promoting that idenity politics by engaging and confirming and helping to reinforce. They too are contributors to TSP.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 31 Jul 2012 22:46

Altair That kalapani article could be psy-ops to boost morale of aam joe that US is doing something in TSP and is not so helpless.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 01 Aug 2012 00:06

SSridhar wrote:
Manny wrote:IMO, Jinnah has helped the Dharmic people of India 1000 times more than Nehru ever did for the same.
Inadvertantly.

Not Jinnah but the actions of Jinnah helped in this regard.
Thanks to Jinnah and the events of 47, now the Islamist problem of India have gained global dimension requiring permanent solution to protect human values.Pakisatn is indeed India's strategic deapth , a moat filled with the mixture of Djinns, Dregs and Danggars, ready to soil every intruder like a pile of poop and geyser of stink.

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 01 Aug 2012 00:12

Djinnah = sakuni?

Roperia · Post by **Roperia** » 01 Aug 2012 02:35

Obama’s Pick for Pakistani Envoy Says He Would Focus on Haqqani Network | NYT

Here is the video of Senate Foreign Relations Committee holding the nomination hearing Nomination Hearings for Ambassadors to Afghanistan & Pakistan

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 01 Aug 2012 03:20

Godfather of Terror: Hamid Gul

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 01 Aug 2012 03:25

Official policies restrict religious freedom in Pakistan, says US

WASHINGTON, July 30: In Pakistan, the Constitution and other laws and policies restrict religious freedom and the government enforced these restrictions, says a US State Department report released on Monday.

“The government demonstrated a trend towards deterioration in respect for and protection of the right to religious freedom,” claims the report, adding that “some government practices limited freedom of religion, particularly for religious minorities”.

The report also points out that:

Abuses under the blasphemy law and other discriminatory laws continued; the government did not take adequate measures to prevent these incidents or reform the laws to prevent abuse.

Since the government rarely investigated or prosecuted the perpetrators of increased extremist attacks on religious minorities and members of the Muslim majority promoting tolerance, the climate of impunity continued. There were instances in which law-enforcement personnel reportedly abused religious minorities in custody.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 01 Aug 2012 03:41

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L7wTQlw ... re=related

Please watch this video of a shia cleric interacting with Gen Gul. Shows very clearly that jasba for pakistan amongst the shia is not dead yet. Very explicity (4:30 approx) shows suport for markaz dawa...

tejas · Post by **tejas** » 01 Aug 2012 03:44

Folks, take a break and enjoy this gem:

Now I know why the koran allows a man to beat his wife.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 01 Aug 2012 06:44

Apparently some Paki has invented a car which can run on water (Why do we need cars which run on water when Camels can run on grass?).

Anyway, fellow was prominently featured in Capital Talk by Hamir Mir, where everyone was going gaga with requisite Inshaallah, Mashallahs and Jazakallahs. One fellow questioned validity of laws of thermodynamics which definitely cannot win against Paki intelligence. (as an aside, are Laws of Thermodynamics applicable in Pakistan? or have they rejected it too?)

http://www.zemtv.com/2012/07/31/capital ... july-2012/

The interesting part is that AQ Khan (Father of Pakistani Bum) says if he were running Kahuta, he would have started production immediately.

Fellow does not seem to have back grasp of physics. Definitely much more entertaining my earlier Afiya Siddiqui video.

Ashwin B · Post by **Ashwin B** » 01 Aug 2012 07:05

Folks, take a break and enjoy this gem:

Isn't this the same Aafia Siddiqui who was caught in Pakistan and renditioned?

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 01 Aug 2012 07:46

Anujan ji, these Paki buggers are so outright liars, that is a Stan Meyers invention going back to 1990s, here:

our Paki engineer proclaims - "such a purely water driven car was never built, this bugger is not only a plagiarist, he is a liar too:
a bigger video here:

one can find more DIY kits online

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 01 Aug 2012 08:23

Cross-border Fire

Delhi and Kabul have been complaining for decades about the sources of cross-border terrorism from Pakistani soil. Militant groups like the Lashkar-e-Toiba, the Afghan Taliban and the Haqqani Network have long enjoyed unstinting patronage of the Pakistan army.

Now Rawalpindi is the one protesting against external sanctuaries for forces fighting the Pakistani state. Pakistan is accusing the United States and its allies of turning a blind eye to the activities of the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) on Afghan soil.

Rawalpindi sees the TTP as the principal security threat to Pakistan. The TTP, which brings together various Islamist outfits in Pakistan under one umbrella, has begun to operate from across the border after the US wound up some border posts in northeastern Afghanistan.

The Pakistan army’s efforts to win over the TTP in recent years have failed as the organisation mounts increasingly bold attacks on Pakistan’s security forces on the border and deep inside Pakistan’s urban heartland.

Over the last weekend, Islamabad’s envoy to Washington, Sherry Rehman, accused the US of failing to act against the TTP’s cross-border activities, despite the Pakistan army providing intelligence. Rehman counted 52 such occasions in recent months. The US and its allies were swift in their rebuttal of Rehman’s charges. Whenever they were notified in advance, the statement from the International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan (ISAF) said, military units were dispatched to deal with the TTP activity.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 01 Aug 2012 08:46

USA has removed the Nuth of Paqqi Sauviriginity

Pakistan has moved away from strategic depth approach: Olson

WASHINGTON: US ambassador-designate to Pakistan Richard Olson on Tuesday said Islamabad has moved away from the old concept of finding strategic depth in Afghanistan as he stressed encouragement for the positive development in the South Asian country’s strategic thinking.Appearing in his confirmation hearing, Olson, who until recently served as a senior diplomat in Kabul, cited to Capitol Hill Pakistani actions as well as the avowed policy statements by its leaders to move away from the old thinking.“On the question of, this has been a doctrine that Pakistanis over the years have talked about strategic depth and, one of the ideas that Afghanistan represents strategic depth against a potential conflict with India.“My sense is that the Pakistani military and Pakistani government has moved away from that.”The Foreign Minister Hina Rabbani Khar has made some public comments about moving away from the doctrine of strategic depth,” he noted, when Republican Senator on the Foreign Relations Committee Bob Corker sought Olson’s views on the issue.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 01 Aug 2012 09:12

“My sense is that the Pakistani military and Pakistani government has moved away from that.”The Foreign Minister Hina Rabbani Khar has made some public comments about moving away from the doctrine of strategic depth,” he noted

Ok, folks i am now completely convinced here that Paki's have certainly abandoned Strategic Depth, particularly going by Khars statements. However if wishes were horses (no i haven't been reading too much of the OIT thread), then India should be in response to

Pakistan is accusing the United States and its allies of turning a blind eye to the activities of the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) on Afghan soil.

Say: South Block has condemned such incidents. Pakistan and US both accuse each other of launching cross border attacks. Both deny doing the accusations. India strongly urges restraint to both sides. India is willing to facilitate talks that will reduce the Acrimony between both Major Nations. However the Spokesman says it is only willing if both Parties agree on it. "Our good Offices are open to both Nations. We are developing and building partnerships with both Nations and would like to see a stable region with less acrimony"...whateva..give em back and show them what we felt when they make these kind of == statements.

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 01 Aug 2012 11:02

Okay, so we all saw the massive and noisy orgasm that the Paki media collectively had for themselves handselves, when one poor and hapless "Sunil" became one more poor and more hapless "Abdullah", all within minutes, on prime Paki TV.

I bet none of the same media care a whit about this horrendously harmed Ms. Julie Aftab of Faisalabad, Pakistan.

This brave woman has stood tall, despite the acid assault on her face at age 16 in Pakistan. And thanks to Christian supporters in TSP and in the US, Ms. Aftab now has a semblance of a new life at age 26 in the US.

Question is -- where is that contemptible a$$hole TV host by the name of Talat Hussain (aka Syed Talat Hussain Naqvi), and where does he, and his ilk of Paki media pigs, stand, when a Julie Aftab of Faisalabad cries out for support???

(Okay, okay, sorry for asking such a really stoopid question.)

Pakistani Woman Burned in Acid Attack Becomes U.S. Citizen

Julie Aftab, Christian Woman Burned With Acid In Pakistan, Feels 'Closer To God' After Recovery

Roperia · Post by **Roperia** » 01 Aug 2012 11:23

The guy I enjoyed listening to more was Congressman Dana Rohrabacher who subjected Pakistan to a tonguelashing, saying the Indian C-17 deal represented a step towards a joint fight against 'radical Islam' and Pakistan's support of it (I've got his brief speech on video, and will upload it shortly). It stirred things up a bit in what was otherwise a light, formal affair , also attended by India's Air Attache Air Commodore Sanjay Nimesh.

First Indian C-17 Comes Together

Congressman Dana Rohrabacher is on Pakjabi bashing spree!

Roperia · Post by **Roperia** » 01 Aug 2012 11:44

26/11 assault: Mumbai evidence not admissible, India told | Tribune

India was informed that the judge has declared the proceedings of the judicial commission to be “null and void”.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 Aug 2012 14:32

Roperia wrote:
The guy I enjoyed listening to more was Congressman Dana Rohrabacher who subjected Pakistan to a tonguelashing, saying the Indian C-17 deal represented a step towards a joint fight against 'radical Islam' and Pakistan's support of it (I've got his brief speech on video, and will upload it shortly). It stirred things up a bit in what was otherwise a light, formal affair , also attended by India's Air Attache Air Commodore Sanjay Nimesh.
First Indian C-17 Comes Together

That is a silly statement by Shiv Aroor because it shows how the US openly uses India to threaten Pakistan. Rohrbacher is a seasoned politician and probably has been briefed well by advisors to say what Indians like to hear, so long as it gets more money and jobs in America and gets the Pakis to listen to the US. On the one hand I hear people tell me "Oh the US view of India is changing. See all the arms that are on offer!". Offering weapons and equipment to india is only one more chapter in trying to get more out of Pakistan, and has less to do with doing India any favours.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 01 Aug 2012 15:34

Roperia wrote:
. . . the Indian C-17 deal represented a step towards a joint fight against 'radical Islam' and Pakistan's support of it, also attended by India's Air Attache Air Commodore Sanjay Nimesh.

I have long believed that the US has been secretly talking to India about some form of joint operation against Pakistan. This might be hot gas just to have its way with India or a ploy to sell more military h/w to us or even a ploy to stop us from taking any unilateral action against Pakistan or an attempt to infiltrate Indian decision making or even a genuine thinking. Time will tell.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 01 Aug 2012 16:49

SS ji - some juicy stuff on Paki Nuclear issues here:
http://www.nonproliferation.eu/document ... e17790.pdf

India will consider any detonation of nuc's by Paki non state actors as intentional.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 01 Aug 2012 16:56

Roperia wrote:Congressman Dana Rohrabacher is on Pakjabi bashing spree!

He is one of the active supporters of Baloch liberation. Few of my friends contacted him about a certain issue and his office responded swiftly. He is a very smart politician. He has a very good knowledge about the atrocities committed by ISI/PA on Balochis. He is NOT a India friend.However he hates Pakis more than he hates Indians, as of now anyways!

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 01 Aug 2012 17:43

India formally allows foreign investment from Pakistan

Pakistani citizens and companies will be allowed to invest in all sectors apart from defence, space and atomic energy, a government statement said. All propositions must be notified to the Indian government, it added.

"The loooonatics are in the house...." with access to Indian infrastructure (power, roads, airports, train stations....)

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 01 Aug 2012 18:03

shyamd wrote:SS ji - some juicy stuff on Paki Nuclear issues here:
http://www.nonproliferation.eu/document ... e17790.pdf

Shyamd ji, thanks.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 01 Aug 2012 18:47

shyamd wrote:Pakistan's Nuclear & WMD Programmes

The above is a good read though it has some unacceptable analysis, at least for me.

sum · Post by **sum** » 01 Aug 2012 19:37

India will consider any detonation of nuc's by Paki non state actors as intentional.

And lob a few dossiers in anger to protest the act

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 01 Aug 2012 20:05

anupmisra wrote:India formally allows foreign investment from Pakistan

"The loooonatics are in the house...." with access to Indian infrastructure (power, roads, airports, train stations....)

From now on pakis dont have to rely on the US to fund terrorism against India. This is one more black day in our history. This decision is completely unnecessary and by doing so we are openly compromising national security and interests. GoI is taxing various indian intelligence agencies. Are they geared enough to handle this challenge?

sum · Post by **sum** » 01 Aug 2012 20:08

Sorry but your 26/11 evidence is useless: Pak tells India

Sadly, our PM and his opinion makers are so shameless now that any thappad by the Poaks will only make them intensify their love making efforts ( cheered on by useful idiots in Desh, WKKs and Chankian theory finders, many of whom are in our forum too)

saip · Post by **saip** » 01 Aug 2012 20:10

Here is the Indian Competitor to Pakisitan water driven car.

http://www.girirajsystems.com/

partha · Post by **partha** » 01 Aug 2012 20:39

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/busi ... 312558.cms

India formally allows foreign direct investment from Pakistan

5 low intensity blasts in Pune. First FDI from Pakistan

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 01 Aug 2012 21:09

dress rehearsal? diversion?

expect something big very soon.

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 01 Aug 2012 21:13

Giving HM to a person like sushilkumar shinde indicates how seriously Sonia and MMS think of national security. We will eventually come back to full circle of Shivraj Patil era.

Its not the capability but the loyalty to Gandhi family matters the most when it comes to the national security.

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 01 Aug 2012 22:32

Anujan wrote:Seeing Jinnah through the prism of an Islamist is quite wrong. Jinnah neither liked the common unwashed abduls (a trait shared by ZAB) nor was he particularly religious (some would call him a blasphemer) but still built his political philosophy on religion (again a trait shared by ZAB). He was a nationalist and staunchly against Khilafat movement, which showed his distaste for both abduls and religion.

But every thing changed. He supported the activities of INC till it was reserved to a few select members who would gather together and hold debates about solving India's problems.

Gandhi's emergence turned the tables. Apparently he used to give speeches about importance of toilets, hygiene, fasting and dieting. All aimed at common abduls. Jinnah was an aristocrat and a feudalist, who could not stand the erosion of aristocratic power. It was clear to him that the system was going to change, with unwashed dregs assuming power instead of educated, moneyed and feudal elite. This is what caused him to switch sides. The fact that he was not a nationalist anymore is supported by historical records. For one, he secretly conspired with Churchill

See here: http://www.indianexpress.com/oldStory/75870/ and here:

Sir Martin Gilbert, the British biographer of Winston Churchill revealed that Churchill had asked Jinnah to dispatch secret letters to him by addressing them to a lady, Elizabeth Giliat, who had been Churchill’s secretary. This secret interaction continued for years. Jinnah’s key decisions between 1940 and 1946, including the demand for Pakistan in 1940, were taken after getting the nod from Churchill or Lord Linlithgow and Wavell, both Churchill’s admirers.
Jinnah's attempt to preserve the power of aristocratic mussalmans were also seized by the feudals of Pakjab, who (rightly) realized their loss of power. Vestiges of it can be seen to this day
1. Pakjabi feudals are still Pakjabi feudals and have effectively resisted land reforms for over 65 years after Pakistan's independence.
2. The "loss" of JK to India threatens their lifeblood -- water from the Indus river system -- and you have "Cashmere issue" alive to this day.

Jinnah's appeal to various princely states also echoes this common theme. Letting the princelies have their title and wealth in return for swearing allegiance to Pakistan. With the Indian union, it was exactly the opposite. The appeal to religion was just a convenient way for Jinnah to incite the common abduls.

That is why you see a vast deal of incoherence in Jinnah's speeches. On the one hand he grandly declares that Hindus and Muslims cannot live together. And on the other hand he (allegedly) declares minorities in Pakistan have nothing to fear and can continue practicing their religion and can co-exist with Muslims. On the one hand religion has influenced nothing in his life -- he drank, ate pork, did not pray and had nothing but contempt for religion types. On the other hand he thought religion could be used to unify a country. All contradictions.

On the other hand, if you see Jinnah as bent on preserving aristocratic and feudal power, his actions and speeches are remarkably coherent.

Quoted in full because I find it an interesting lens through which to study Jinnah - a relentless elite who fundamentally despised the 'unwashed masses, and changed positions to distance himself from them as much and as far as he could.

Hence he was with the INC until the sons of the soil took over, and thereafter his need for elitism led him inexorably to Muslim/ Invader/ Fair Skinned etc elitism. There were few other positions he could have taken and still remained 'elite at a national level'.

If he were there today he would probably be a scotch swilling general in the Pakistani army, or an English citizen ensconced in the House of Lords. Sneering at Mango Abdul.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 01 Aug 2012 22:54

abhijitm wrote:dress rehearsal? diversion?

expect something big very soon.

Most likely. Timer circuits found as well as two hand granades.

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 01 Aug 2012 23:18

From Rediff live newsfeed:

20:56 It's not a terror blast, says Pune top cop : Four low-intensity blasts took place on Pune's Junglee Maharaj Road this evening. One was injured in the blasts. One bomb was kept in a cycle carrier, one in a dustbin and the other close to a local bank.
22:07 Can't confirm if Pune blasts a terror attack: HM : Four-low intensity blasts in Pune and one injured, confirmed newly appointed Home Minister Sushilkumar Shinde.

There were 5 blasts and this minister can't confirm if it's a terror attack, when did terror attack change in definition? only when there are too many deaths and when LeT and TSP announce it indeed was a terror attack? really mind boggling...

saip · Post by **saip** » 01 Aug 2012 23:20

Security on high alert after at least 20 injured in Lahore blasts

Link

These are also not terror related I take it.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 01 Aug 2012 23:20

PIB announcement about allowing Paki investment:

http://pib.nic.in/newsite/erelease.aspx?relid=85651