Small Arms Thread

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ArmenT
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by ArmenT »

Acharya wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Short

How is this round. Used it in the range and missed 80% of the target
Were you firing a revolver or a rifle? [edit]Never mind, I see you mentioning weaver stance in your next post, so it must have been some revolver or pistol.[/edit]

This round doesn't have that much recoil. Perhaps it is your shooting technique?

By the way, the .22 Long Rifle (.22 LR) is much more commonly used, mainly because it is so cheap (you can get 500 rounds for under $20) and most firearms manufacturers in the world make at least one model that fires this caliber. I discussed this round in the firearms blog here.
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by sarabpal.s »

Regarding my early post of bullpop sniper rifle at punjlloyd stall,
goggle fail too and so the worldgun website.

:-/
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by saptarishi »

Indian Army tender procurement of more than 40,000 carbines and tens of millions of rounds of ammunition will be held in June 2012, the comprehensive report, the Indian Army carbines of the four bidding companies to test, and ultimately selected a company to provide 44618 5.56 mm close-combat carbine and 33.6 million rounds of bullets.It will ultimately replace its active-duty 9 mm carbine. These four companies are: U.S. Colt, Sig Sauer (USA) Inc., the Israeli arms industry and the Italian Beretta company, they provide the carbine will be located in infantry school in India and Central Farm Hao (Mhow), Rajasthan desert environment and the high altitude test.
Indian Army will be its final selection of company signed a contract worth $ 400,000,000 (200 billion rupees) contract, the company will also transfer of technology to the Indian arsenal Commission. India the arsenal Commission will produce 380 000 400 000 carbine for the Indian Army and Indian paramilitary forces and national police forces in accordance with the provisions of the Indian defense acquisition program >> This contract will also include the terms of the trade remedies, trade and the amount of compensation will be 30% of the entire contract amount..

http://www.agile-news.com/news-932343-I ... ition.html


Image COLT M4

Image sig sauer SIG 516

Image BERETTA R *4 STORM

Image IWI MICROTAVOR /X-95
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by Rahul M »

sarabpal.s wrote:
Rahul M wrote:koti, looks like galil sniper.
please check the details show in other pics as muzzle velocity is ref. as Russian standards

I doubt it is Galil or leader 50
Gurneesh wrote:Rahulji, Galil is not bullpup.

It does not look like Leander either.

Pic of leander from Misraji's link:

[img*]http://www.defensereview.com/wp-content ... 2011_2.jpg[/img]
I was responding to koti's post, not the bullpup rifle. :wink:
viewtopic.php?p=1263545#p1263545
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by uddu »

What about MSMC
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by koti »

MSMC, I think has failed to cut it.
M4/MTar are in a different league compared to MP7 or MSMC.
I do not know what the storm is doing there though. :shock:
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by saptarishi »

koti wrote:MSMC, I think has failed to cut it.
M4/MTar are in a different league compared to MP7 or MSMC.
I do not know what the storm is doing there though. :shock:
this competition is for 5.56 calibre carbine.it is for the initial lot of around 44 thousand carbines. total requirement for military and paramilitary is around 4 lakh carbines,.if this around 2 lakh is covered by this deal then MSMC can come in for the next two lakhs.MSMC is in the evaluation phase. it might just be click with the army which might just order it. beretta r*4 storm is a very capable carbine. beretta's arx-160 is also selected for the rifle tender of around 65000 multi calibre rifles with tar-21 and czech republics cz-805 also in fray. so these two deals i think might just kill the MSMC AND THE MULTI CALIBRE WEAPON FROM DRDO FOR F-INSAS,JUST LIKE THE TAVOR DEAL FOR THE SPECIAL FORCES KILLED the EXCALIBUR AND KALANTAK. ITS ALWAYS the case with indigenous weapon projects. t-90 almost killed arjun, mmrca almost killed lca. pakistanis and chinese do not have much options so they take what they get. but whatever we get is better than what they will get in future
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by shiv »

saptarishi wrote:
Indian Army will be its final selection of company signed a contract worth $ 400,000,000 (200 billion rupees) contract, the company will also transfer of technology to the Indian arsenal Commission. India the arsenal Commission will produce 380 000 400 000 carbine for the Indian Army and Indian paramilitary forces and national police forces in accordance with the provisions of the Indian defense acquisition program >> This contract will also include the terms of the trade remedies, trade and the amount of compensation will be 30% of the entire contract amount..

Hmmm - a sudden aha moment. There may be method in this madness.

A decade ago every day-to-day item from safety pins to plastic cups to toys and torches were manufactured in China and huge industrial plants were set up for that. Now China has a monopoly on those things because no one can make them as cheap as China.

Guess what SDREs should be doing in a decade? :twisted:
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by sarabpal.s »

sarabpal.s wrote:Please help me to identify this gun as i took this picture at PunjLloyd stall

Image

Image

OK It is Gepard GM6 LYNX From Hungary.
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by ArmenT »

Izhmash Officially Bankrupt
Izhmash is the Russian state-owned manufacturer of the AK-xx series of assault rifles and Saiga rifles. They have now officially announced their bankruptcy.
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by sarabpal.s »

ArmenT wrote:Izhmash Officially Bankrupt
Izhmash is the Russian state-owned manufacturer of the AK-xx series of assault rifles and Saiga rifles. They have now officially announced their bankruptcy.
an opportunity for Indian to hire their scientist or collaborate with them under aggrement to bail them out with good order.
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by ArmenT »

sarabpal.s wrote:
ArmenT wrote:Izhmash Officially Bankrupt
Izhmash is the Russian state-owned manufacturer of the AK-xx series of assault rifles and Saiga rifles. They have now officially announced their bankruptcy.
an opportunity for Indian to hire their scientist or collaborate with them under aggrement to bail them out with good order.
What they really need to do is not only hire their engineers, but also buy the production line machinery as well.
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by koti »

Austin
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by Austin »

sarabpal.s wrote:
ArmenT wrote:Izhmash Officially Bankrupt
Izhmash is the Russian state-owned manufacturer of the AK-xx series of assault rifles and Saiga rifles. They have now officially announced their bankruptcy.
an opportunity for Indian to hire their scientist or collaborate with them under aggrement to bail them out with good order.
The government will simply bail them out or the banks will fund them with gurantees provided by government ....they would be soon making AK-12 and other stuff.

Check for Izmash CEO interview on new AK-12 and other stuff

Part-1 http://lenta.ru/articles/2012/05/02/izhmash/
Part-2 http://vpk.name/news/68690_vyiiti_iz_krizisa.html
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by Vipul »

Over 29,000 AK-47s procured for India's paramilitary forces.

AK-47s continue to be the preferred assault weapon for the country's paramilitary forces deployed to neutralise terrorists and Maoists at the frontiers and in the hinterland.
Over 29,000 pieces of this Russian-origin rifle were imported by forces like CRPF, BSF and NSG over the last three years, leaving behind, by a large margin, other sophisticated assault weapons procured from the US and Israel.

The inventory of the assault weapons procured for security forces, including ITBP, CISF and Assam Rifles, during 2010-2013 show that while 29,260 pieces of the 'AK' series were procured, only 17,609 units of other weapons in this category like X-95 and SIG were imported.

While the Central Reserve Police Force, deployed extensively in the country for anti-Naxal operations procured 18,000 AK-47s, the Central Industrial Security Force guarding Indian airports got 7,921 pieces and the Sashastra Seema Bal securing borders along Nepal and Bhutan got 2,719 units.

The Sino-India border guarding force Indo-Tibetan Border Police procured 620 pieces of these 'Avtomat Kalashnikova' (AK) rifles.

"The AK series rifles are still the best in terms of use and adaptability for Indian security forces personnel. Be it any domain of combat operations like anti-Maoist or counter-terror operations, this weapon has delivered good results," a senior security official said. With the advent of new technology and new dynamics of combat, the country's security establishment has also imported other modern variants of assault rifles.

So while the CRPF got 6,382 pieces of X-95 for its troops in Maoist operations, the elite National Security Guard (NSG) got 675 pieces of the Swiss-make SIG assault rifles.

"There have not been many assault weapons that suit the Indian conditions and the forces. Also, the role of the internal security forces is essentially to combat and not assault. So, a specialist counter-terror force like NSG also uses sub-machine guns like MP5 and Glock pistols for fighting from close quarters," a NSG official explained.

The security forces, through the Union Home Ministry, procured the AK-47s from Bulgaria while the X-95s are procured from Israel.

Among the other weapons that these forces procured during the same fiscals are MP-5 guns from Heckler and Koch (Germany), Carbine machine guns (Storm) from Beretta (Italy) and Glock Pistols from Hong Kong and Austria.
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by atreya »

Is it the AKM or the actual AK 47?
ArmenT
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by ArmenT »

Gotta be an AKM variant (or possibly a type-56 clone). Real AK-47s are extremely rare + they had some technical issues that were resolved by the AKM design. Unfortunately, journalists all over the world tend to refer to any AK model as an "AK-47".

See http://firearmshistory.blogspot.com/201 ... 7-akm.html for the differences between the various models.
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by atreya »

ArmenT, I read that blog 4 times :) and that is why I could ask that question!
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by Viv S »

Cross-posting from the Misc. Pictures thread-


What weapon is the soldier, second from left in the picture, holding?

http://frontierindia.net/indiandefence/ ... rms-cache/
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by koti »

Cant see.
But 9mm Sterling is a guess.
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by Sriman »

Viv S wrote:Cross-posting from the Misc. Pictures thread-


What weapon is the soldier, second from left in the picture, holding?

http://frontierindia.net/indiandefence/ ... rms-cache/
I think it's a Tavor with UBGL.
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by shiv »

I thought I saw a telescopic sight of some kind of sniper rifle.
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by Bala Vignesh »

^^Don't think so Shiv saar.. It seems like a Mpi KM or Insas with a folding butt to me. You can clearly make out the folded butt just behind the pistol grip..
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by Lalmohan »

shiv wrote:I thought I saw a telescopic sight of some kind of sniper rifle.
agree, dragunov with scope?
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by koti »

^Saw it again.
It seems to be an AKM. Mostly of Romanian origin.(And stock folded)
The scope does not seem to be aligned with the gun. Maybe it is dangling from him.
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by Bala Vignesh »

The Romanian one is the one with the underfolding stock, right???
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by Mihir »

I think Viv meant to point out the second guy from the left of the group, and not the left of the picture, i.e., the SOG gent in khaki. He does appear to be holding a Sterling 9mm, although the magazine seems to be on the right-hand side of the gun in this case. Strange.
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by atreya »

Second guy from left as we see it (with a bandana) seems to be holding a Sterling.
By the way, 1st guy from left, is he holding an AK with the magazine camouflaged too?
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by ramana »

ArmenT, What does this mean?
"There have not been many assault weapons that suit the Indian conditions and the forces. Also, the role of the internal security forces is essentially to combat and not assault. So, a specialist counter-terror force like NSG also uses sub-machine guns like MP5 and Glock pistols for fighting from close quarters," a NSG official explained.
Whats the diff between combat and assault?
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by ArmenT »

ramana wrote:ArmenT, What does this mean?
"There have not been many assault weapons that suit the Indian conditions and the forces. Also, the role of the internal security forces is essentially to combat and not assault. So, a specialist counter-terror force like NSG also uses sub-machine guns like MP5 and Glock pistols for fighting from close quarters," a NSG official explained.
Whats the diff between combat and assault?
I think someone might have misreported the terminology used somewhat, or the person doing the briefing might have accidentally fumbled it, but I think he means that internal security forces are generally in defensive role and put in close combat situations (i.e.) urban areas and buildings and therefore use sub-machine guns and pistols more, whereas regular military is in battlefield areas and need the bigger assault rifles.
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by koti »

Can anyone point to any material tabulating/comparing penetration characteristics of 5.56,6.8 and 7.62mm rounds at different ranges?
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by ArmenT »

^^^^
Plenty of good info in this link, with lots of pictures and links to many tables as well.
http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defen ... /index.htm
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by Austin »

AK-12: Weapon of future
The Kalashnikov rifle continues to be the main firearm of the Russian army. Its new version – AK-12 has recently been presented by its developers in Solnechnogorsk near Moscow.

Designers at the Izhmash factory have significantly upgraded the rifle by adapting it to contemporary conditions of waging combat, but at the same time, they have preserved the unique characteristics of the Kalashnikov rifle, says editor-in-chief of the Moscow-based National Defence magazine, Igor Korotchenko.

“The new rifle has taken into account new achievements in design and technology. It will be more functional and meet the main demand for small arms – increasing its accuracy and range. The new rifle will be delivered to the Russian armed forces and Special Task Forces,” Igor Korotchenko said.

The new version is distinguished by its module design and this makes it possible to develop about 20 modifications for civilian and military purposes with calibers from 5.45 to 7.62 mm. The AK-12 can be operated by one hand, and additional equipment such as optical sight, range finder and grenade launcher, can be installed on it. Another innovation is replaceable barrels, which can assure three methods of fire.

Igor Korotchenko said that advanced technology and materials were used for the development of the new weapon, and more than ten new inventions will be used in making various models of the Kalashnikov rifle. These inventions will be patented, says military analyst Victor Baranets.

“Our rifles have always won Grand-Prix in the world. Meanwhile, the Kalashnikov rifle has become legendary. In all, 50 million AK-74 rifles have been produced, and over 50 countries have bought them. I believe that the AK-12 will experience a similar history,” Victor Baranets said.

The tests of the new rifle will be completed by the end of the year. Official tests will start in 2013. Then the rifle will go into service after the start of mass production.
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by Austin »

Izmash released picture of AK-12 with UBGL.

http://www.izhmash.ru/pix/news/ak-12_mil.jpg
link

For reference, the work on the creation of the AK-12 began in the Design and Technology Centre Izhmash in August 2011 and in December 2011 made ​​the first sample of this weapon. In the AK-12 has implemented a number of new design and technological solutions that have improved the combat power and effectiveness of firing all types of fire. The new AK-12 significantly improved ergonomics in the design of integrated Picatinny rail for installing a wide range of optional body kit. In this machine has retained its legendary reliability, durability and ease of operation. By the end of 2012 will be completed factory testing of the new machine, and in 2013 to submit it to the state tests, after which the machine is adopted for the Russian army and put into production.
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by Austin »

Russian practical shooting team testing the AK-12

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRSYOIS0wOs
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by koti »

The new Russian pistol.
Maybe a good option if we look beyond the Glock or for those state police forces which couldn't get the Glocks.
The Profile is very similar to Glock making it easier to be interchangeably used with Glocks.

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Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by vic »

Guns and Butter in Billion-dollar Arms Deal

I had pointed out on Small Arms thread few months back that Para Military imported useless carbines for Rs 400 crores in an evidently manipulated deal. INSAS would have been way better and cheaper in that role. Even MSMG would have done the job. Now the Army wants to do one better and buy a ridiculously priced useless junk. US Special forces approved and then cancelled the rifles with interchangeable calibers (as they found the feature useless).
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by Aditya_V »

Would be Much better if India's private sector is allowed to Compete. Someone see the irnoy here, foreign private countries compete while India's private sector is kept out.

We cant even make our own ammunition?
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by Shrinivasan »

a noob Pooch, how do our Jawans fire the "DRDO 40mm UBGL" attached to an INSAS rifle. looks cumbersome, if not dangerous to be loading a grenade via the muzzle in the think of action. I couldn't find a video of a desi INSAS with a UBGL being fired but saw one of an AK... looks pretty powerful... anyone has a video of an INSAS with a UBGL being fired?
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Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by Sagar G »

Aditya_V wrote:Would be Much better if India's private sector is allowed to Compete. Someone see the irnoy here, foreign private countries compete while India's private sector is kept out.

We cant even make our own ammunition?
Pvt. companies don't have a magic wand that will solve India's arms woes. Before you can compete you need a knowledge,technology and a manufacturing base which our pvt. sector severely lacks and can only gain through decades of sustained research. Things are getting better but it is going to take time (i.e. decades) before our pvt. sector starts providing engg solutions to our armed forces.
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