Su-30: News and Discussion

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Amit J
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Amit J »

nakul wrote:Indian Air Force to raise four more squadrons of Su-30 MKI fighter
"By the end of this year, in December, and early next year, we will be inducting a new Su-30 squadron, based in Punjab. That will be the tenth squadron of Su-30 and the process will continue for at least six months from January to June," he said.
"We are raising three-four more squadrons of Sukhoi. Two extra squadrons are being raised in Eastern Sector. So far we have raised two squadrons there and two more are in process," he said, replying to a query on deployment of the fighter aircraft in the northeast.

On IAF's future plans to induct Su-30MKIs in the force, he said, "One more squadron will be based in Punjab and one will be in Southern Command in Thanjavur. Therefore, we will have 13-14 total squadrons of Sukhoi to add to our strength."
So that would be the first fighter squadron to call one of the 4 southern states home. Neat.

A much required fighter squadron by hopefully mid of 2014 in South.
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Amit J »

Singha wrote:dont forget the 42 we just ordered. maybe IAPO can deliver one @ 2/month by then.

Aren't 40 of the 42 A/Cs ordered for the Strategic Forces Command ? to be used to deliver nuclear bombs.
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Aditya G »

krish.pf wrote:13,300kgf Thrust for AL-31fp. Finally found it. :D
12,500kgf must be the normal After-Burner Thrust and 13,300kgf the Emergency Thrust.

So many people giving so many theories and sources - http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 80#p760980

Case Closed! :mrgreen:
I recall that MiG-21 also has a similar "extra" afterburner mode - but if used requires additional maintenance on the engine after the sortie. Even MiG-25 can achieve Mach 3 only in this mode.
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by krish.pf »

Aditya G wrote:
krish.pf wrote:13,300kgf Thrust for AL-31fp. Finally found it. :D
12,500kgf must be the normal After-Burner Thrust and 13,300kgf the Emergency Thrust.
So many people giving so many theories and sources - http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 80#p760980

Case Closed! :mrgreen:
I recall that MiG-21 also has a similar "extra" afterburner mode - but if used requires additional maintenance on the engine after the sortie. Even MiG-25 can achieve Mach 3 only in this mode.
Yup. The Bis/Bison version has the largest difference between Emergency Thrust and Normal maximum afterburner thrust. Normal 7100kgf , Emergency - 9900kgf(but limited to 3 mins and Altitude less than 4km). This is to help it in Scramble Missions to Gain Altitude faster and intercept incoming bogie(s).

RD-33 Series 3 and RD-93(on MiG-29SMT/UPG & JF-17) - Normal 8300kgf, Emergency 8700kgf

RD-33MK(on MiG-29K/M/M2/MiG-35) - Normal 9000kgf, Emergency 10500kgf

F404-GE-IN20 on LCA Tejas Mk1 - Normal 8865kgf, Emergency 9165kgf
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by krish.pf »

*F404-GE-IN20 on LCA Tejas Mk1 - Normal 8665kgf, Emergency 9165kgf

Typo
vic
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by vic »

So what is the thrust on F414-INS6 (? the new series?)

Normal 98kn and emergency 105??kn -?
Kersi D
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Kersi D »

From various sources especially our BR database I infer
Sqdn 20, Sqdn 30 - Lohegaon
Sqdn 2 - Tezpur
Sqdn 8 - Bareilly,
Sqdn 31 - Halwara ???
Sqdn 102 - Chabua

Can some expert complete the list for this mango man ?

k
Snehashis
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Snehashis »

Kersi D wrote:From various sources especially our BR database I infer
Sqdn 20, Sqdn 30 - Lohegaon
Sqdn 2 - Tezpur
Sqdn 8 - Bareilly,
Sqdn 31 - Halwara ???
Sqdn 102 - Chabua

Can some expert complete the list for this mango man ?

k

As per wiki :


Present Deployments

Bhatinda AFS: 34 Wing’s 17 Golden Arrows sqn with Su-30MKI since June 2012.

Chabua AFS: 14 Wing’s 102 Trisonics sqn with Su-30MKI since March 8, 2011.

Halwara AFS: 34 Wing’s 220 Desert Tigers sqn with Su-30MKI since September 25, 2012.

Jodhpur AFS: 32 Wing’s 31 Lions sqn with Su-30MKI since October 1, 2011.

Pune/Lohegaon AFS: 2 Wing’s 20 Lightnings sqn (since September 27, 2002) & 30 Rhinos sqn with Su-30MKI (since March 21, 2005).

Tezpur AFS: 11 Wing’s 2 Winged Arrows sqn with Su-30MKI since June 15, 2009.


Future Deployments

The above squadrons will in future be joined by:

Bhuj AFS: 27 Wing’s 15 Flying Lancers Sqn to begin converting to Su-30MKI in December 2012 and four Su-30MKIs will be tasked with strategic reconnaissance along the India-Pakistan borders with EL/M-2060P SAR pod.

Sirsa AFS: 45 Wing’s 21 Ankush sqn (now with MiG-21 Bisons, will convert to Su-30MKI by the year’s end and four of its Su-30MKIs will be tasked with strategic reconnaissance along the India-Pakistan borders with EL/M-2060P SAR pod.

Kalaikunda AFS: 5 Wing’s 18 Flying Bullets sqn will begin converting to Su-30MKI by June 2013.

Hashimara AFS: 16 Wing’s 222 Tigersharks sqn will begin converting to Su-30MKI by June 2013.

In addition to the above, an all-new Su-30MKI squadron will be raised for deployment to Thanjavur by 2015, and will be followed by the raising of three more Su-30MKI squadrons, leading to a grand total of 17 squadrons equipped with Su-30MKIs.
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by member_23455 »

As per wiki :


Present Deployments

Bhatinda AFS: 34 Wing’s 17 Golden Arrows sqn with Su-30MKI since June 2012.

Chabua AFS: 14 Wing’s 102 Trisonics sqn with Su-30MKI since March 8, 2011.

Halwara AFS: 34 Wing’s 220 Desert Tigers sqn with Su-30MKI since September 25, 2012.

Jodhpur AFS: 32 Wing’s 31 Lions sqn with Su-30MKI since October 1, 2011.

Pune/Lohegaon AFS: 2 Wing’s 20 Lightnings sqn (since September 27, 2002) & 30 Rhinos sqn with Su-30MKI (since March 21, 2005).

Tezpur AFS: 11 Wing’s 2 Winged Arrows sqn with Su-30MKI since June 15, 2009.


Future Deployments

The above squadrons will in future be joined by:

Bhuj AFS: 27 Wing’s 15 Flying Lancers Sqn to begin converting to Su-30MKI in December 2012 and four Su-30MKIs will be tasked with strategic reconnaissance along the India-Pakistan borders with EL/M-2060P SAR pod.

Sirsa AFS: 45 Wing’s 21 Ankush sqn (now with MiG-21 Bisons, will convert to Su-30MKI by the year’s end and four of its Su-30MKIs will be tasked with strategic reconnaissance along the India-Pakistan borders with EL/M-2060P SAR pod.

Kalaikunda AFS: 5 Wing’s 18 Flying Bullets sqn will begin converting to Su-30MKI by June 2013.

Hashimara AFS: 16 Wing’s 222 Tigersharks sqn will begin converting to Su-30MKI by June 2013.
No Bareilly :eek: - Are you sure?

Hey Kersi, what is this obsessions with Su30 numbers and squadrons man :)
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by JTull »

Aditya G wrote:
krish.pf wrote:13,300kgf Thrust for AL-31fp. Finally found it. :D
12,500kgf must be the normal After-Burner Thrust and 13,300kgf the Emergency Thrust.

So many people giving so many theories and sources - http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 80#p760980

Case Closed! :mrgreen:
I recall that MiG-21 also has a similar "extra" afterburner mode - but if used requires additional maintenance on the engine after the sortie. Even MiG-25 can achieve Mach 3 only in this mode.
Why there two inlet sizes? Perhaps the extra afterburner thrust is if the larger inlet is present?
Kersi D
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Kersi D »

RajitO wrote:
As per wiki :


Present Deployments

Bhatinda AFS: 34 Wing’s 17 Golden Arrows sqn with Su-30MKI since June 2012.

Chabua AFS: 14 Wing’s 102 Trisonics sqn with Su-30MKI since March 8, 2011.

Halwara AFS: 34 Wing’s 220 Desert Tigers sqn with Su-30MKI since September 25, 2012.

Jodhpur AFS: 32 Wing’s 31 Lions sqn with Su-30MKI since October 1, 2011.

Pune/Lohegaon AFS: 2 Wing’s 20 Lightnings sqn (since September 27, 2002) & 30 Rhinos sqn with Su-30MKI (since March 21, 2005).

Tezpur AFS: 11 Wing’s 2 Winged Arrows sqn with Su-30MKI since June 15, 2009.


Future Deployments

The above squadrons will in future be joined by:

Bhuj AFS: 27 Wing’s 15 Flying Lancers Sqn to begin converting to Su-30MKI in December 2012 and four Su-30MKIs will be tasked with strategic reconnaissance along the India-Pakistan borders with EL/M-2060P SAR pod.

Sirsa AFS: 45 Wing’s 21 Ankush sqn (now with MiG-21 Bisons, will convert to Su-30MKI by the year’s end and four of its Su-30MKIs will be tasked with strategic reconnaissance along the India-Pakistan borders with EL/M-2060P SAR pod.

Kalaikunda AFS: 5 Wing’s 18 Flying Bullets sqn will begin converting to Su-30MKI by June 2013.

Hashimara AFS: 16 Wing’s 222 Tigersharks sqn will begin converting to Su-30MKI by June 2013.
No Bareilly :eek: - Are you sure?

Hey Kersi, what is this obsessions with Su30 numbers and squadrons man :)
JUST KICKS !!!

Trying to bring my post to the coveted 1000 mark !!!!
Surya
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Surya »

kersi is deep state spy :)
Kersi D
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Kersi D »

Snehashis wrote:
Kersi D wrote:From various sources especially our BR database I infer
Sqdn 20, Sqdn 30 - Lohegaon
Sqdn 2 - Tezpur
Sqdn 8 - Bareilly,
Sqdn 31 - Halwara ???
Sqdn 102 - Chabua

Can some expert complete the list for this mango man ?

k

As per wiki :


Present Deployments

Bhatinda AFS: 34 Wing’s 17 Golden Arrows sqn with Su-30MKI since June 2012.

Chabua AFS: 14 Wing’s 102 Trisonics sqn with Su-30MKI since March 8, 2011.

Halwara AFS: 34 Wing’s 220 Desert Tigers sqn with Su-30MKI since September 25, 2012.

Jodhpur AFS: 32 Wing’s 31 Lions sqn with Su-30MKI since October 1, 2011.

Pune/Lohegaon AFS: 2 Wing’s 20 Lightnings sqn (since September 27, 2002) & 30 Rhinos sqn with Su-30MKI (since March 21, 2005).

Tezpur AFS: 11 Wing’s 2 Winged Arrows sqn with Su-30MKI since June 15, 2009.


Future Deployments

The above squadrons will in future be joined by:

Bhuj AFS: 27 Wing’s 15 Flying Lancers Sqn to begin converting to Su-30MKI in December 2012 and four Su-30MKIs will be tasked with strategic reconnaissance along the India-Pakistan borders with EL/M-2060P SAR pod.

Sirsa AFS: 45 Wing’s 21 Ankush sqn (now with MiG-21 Bisons, will convert to Su-30MKI by the year’s end and four of its Su-30MKIs will be tasked with strategic reconnaissance along the India-Pakistan borders with EL/M-2060P SAR pod.

Kalaikunda AFS: 5 Wing’s 18 Flying Bullets sqn will begin converting to Su-30MKI by June 2013.

Hashimara AFS: 16 Wing’s 222 Tigersharks sqn will begin converting to Su-30MKI by June 2013.

In addition to the above, an all-new Su-30MKI squadron will be raised for deployment to Thanjavur by 2015, and will be followed by the raising of three more Su-30MKI squadrons, leading to a grand total of 17 squadrons equipped with Su-30MKIs.
Wiki's data is erroneous, intentionally or un-intentionally

As Rajat said, WHERE IS BAREILLY ?

Me think there is 1 sqdn at Lohegaon and 2 sqdns at Bareilly.

Me thinks Sqdn 30, Rhino is at Tezpur, they were earlier flying Mig 21 of EAC at Hashimara or Bagdogra.

I think Sqdn 8 Pursoots gave also converted from MiG 21XYZ to SU 30MKI

I understand that Jamnagar, rather than Bhuj, will get 1/2 sqdns of SU 30 MKI.

K
Kersi D
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Kersi D »

Surya wrote:kersi is deep state spy :)
I thought that was a secret. Why don't you keep quiet ??????
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by nachiket »

Wiki data is wrong. It doesn't mention 8 and 24 squadrons which are in Bareilly. The deep state spy is right. ;)
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Surya »

sorry kersi next time :)
Kersi D
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Kersi D »

Surya wrote:kersi is deep state spy :)
:(( :(( :(( :(( :((
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by member_23694 »

just a thought
for the SU-30 and Rafale in the near future deployed in the North East , there main use will be
1. protect our air space against Chinese fighter
2. strike against enemy target inside the opponents territory

Now my concern lies for the point 2 above.

SU-30 and later Super Su 30 are said to have very powerful radars and the weapon capability of Su-30 and Rafale are 8 and 9.5 tonne resp. but for that matter i have not yet seen the Indian Sukhoi having shown the capability to strike target in range greater than 300 km.
I know brahmos and nirbhay coming up but my point is for the present, do we have any such capability and if not then how does the powerful radar on them are helpful.
And secondly if we don;t have the capability and send these aircrafts near the target to strike then how successful will they be especially against the Chinese air defence.
Further from planning perspective if the Sukhoi have been with us for more than a decade now and if we still don;t have greater than 300Km strike capability from it (something like a storm shadow or TAURUS KEPD 350 [even Pakistan has a Raad missile ] ) then i think that we have not yet exploited the full capability of Su -30

Would definitely like to be corrected if i have misunderstood something
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by anand_sankar »

Some Su-30Ks undergoing deep overhaul in Belarus... Looks like the ones we returned.

http://englishrussia.com/2012/11/13/bel ... air-plant/
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Sancho »

dhiraj wrote: I know brahmos and nirbhay coming up but my point is for the present, do we have any such capability and if not then how does the powerful radar on them are helpful.
No we don't have such a strike capability right now, the max is MKI with Kh 59, which might come at half the range depending on which version we have. One reason why additional stand off strike capability must be added soon and besides MKI/Brahmos, the Mirage 2000 upgrade could be an option as well. Spice 1000/2000 are under evaluation, Scalp cruise missile possible too.
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by member_23694 »

Here u go

Russia and China reached preliminary agreement for 48 Su-35BMs
http://idrw.org/?p=15926#more-15926

and that too 48 Su 35 for only $1.5 billion . what is the price of the additional 42 Su 30 MKI (super version i beleive) that India is buying

With this deal will the Indian Su 30 MKI finally meet its match in the North or are they even better than the Indian version and if that is case then :evil: :evil: :evil:
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Manish_Sharma »

dhiraj wrote: and that too 48 Su 35 for only $1.5 billion . what is the price of the additional 42 Su 30 MKI (super version i beleive) that India is buying

With this deal will the Indian Su 30 MKI finally meet its match in the North or are they even better than the Indian version and if that is case then :evil: :evil: :evil:
Nah!!! Rambhas are the most capable of all flankers. See IAF got the best of all worlds in their birds : Indian, French, Israeli plus the russkie stuff.

New coming Super flankers are going to be the most capable of flanker lineage.

35s are going to have only one pilot, hence probably more fuel and more range too, though one man vs. two will be huge disadvantage.

1.5 billion is a killer price though, hope IAF buys 60 too, yummy soooo cheap for such a capable bird!
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by krishnan »

why buy those when they have their own super duper planes and why just 48 ??
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Austin »

The news of China buying 48 Su-35 is just not true its just rumours , Sukhoi has mentioned that they would get Su-35 to china in 2014 Air Show .... right now there is no confirmation of China buying it and they wont sell it either till the IP issues gets resolved
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by sumits »

48 Su-35 for $1.5 billion is simply not possible. That would mean $31.25 million per bird.

The cost of Su-35 is upwards for $65million.
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Kersi D »

Sancho wrote:
dhiraj wrote: I know brahmos and nirbhay coming up but my point is for the present, do we have any such capability and if not then how does the powerful radar on them are helpful.
No we don't have such a strike capability right now, the max is MKI with Kh 59, which might come at half the range depending on which version we have. One reason why additional stand off strike capability must be added soon and besides MKI/Brahmos, the Mirage 2000 upgrade could be an option as well. Spice 1000/2000 are under evaluation, Scalp cruise missile possible too.
Kh 59 ???
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Kersi D »

Sancho wrote:
dhiraj wrote: I know brahmos and nirbhay coming up but my point is for the present, do we have any such capability and if not then how does the powerful radar on them are helpful.
No we don't have such a strike capability right now, the max is MKI with Kh 59, which might come at half the range depending on which version we have. One reason why additional stand off strike capability must be added soon and besides MKI/Brahmos, the Mirage 2000 upgrade could be an option as well. Spice 1000/2000 are under evaluation, Scalp cruise missile possible too.

IAF is supposed to have a Israeli air-to-surface missile which was intially called as Crystal Maze. It was to be on M 2000.

What is Crystam Maze ? Popeye Lite ? Delilah ? Spice ?

Is it used on SU 30 MKI

Regards

D S Jasoos

(Deep State Spy)
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Singha »

crystal maze = popeye2 imo (150km, solid rocket motor), not popeye turbo(bigger,turbojet,300km).
its a weapon carried routinely by F-16I Sufa
even then the popeye is around 12 feet long.


http://www.missilethreat.com/cruise/id. ... detail.asp

In 1994, Israel tested the Popeye 2 “Have Lite” from an Israeli Air Force (IAF) F-16 Fighting Falcon, and the missile entered service the following year. It is currently deployed on F-16 and F/A-18 aircraft, each of which can carry two missiles. The Popeye 2 has been exported to Australia, Turkey, South Korea, and possibly Greece. A modified version was exported to India.

a domestic fleetwide weapon in that size and range would be the micro-brahmos they are exploring. can replace all of the KH29, KH31, KH59 in one shot with no restrictions on which ac russian, indian or western is compatible.
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by RamaY »

dhiraj wrote:Here u go

Russia and China reached preliminary agreement for 48 Su-35BMs
http://idrw.org/?p=15926#more-15926

and that too 48 Su 35 for only $1.5 billion . what is the price of the additional 42 Su 30 MKI (super version i beleive) that India is buying

With this deal will the Indian Su 30 MKI finally meet its match in the North or are they even better than the Indian version and if that is case then :evil: :evil: :evil:
Dumb questions

1. Does it mean Chinese 5th gen project is not on time? Are they expecting severe delays that require them to buy su-35s?

2. Does it mean the current Chinese ding dongs j10, j11 and j25 are inferior to su-30mki?

3. Given 1 and 2 is Chinese 5th gen ding dong is hardly at su-30 level and cannot compete with FGFA?
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by member_23364 »

The figure of $1.5 Billion for 48 Su-35's is hopelessly wrong.

The only other sale the Su-35 has notched was for Mother Russia.

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20090818/155847516.html

48 Su-35's, 12 Su-30 and 4 Su-27's were sold for $2.5 Billion in 2009. No way, in 2012, 48 Su-35's will be sold for $1.5 Billion.

Someone somewhere has made a mistake or is deliberately quoting a wrong number.
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by member_23694 »

Austin wrote:First production Su-35S for RuAF
always like fighters in black , YF 23, F 22, Rafale and now Su 35.
Keep the Indian Rafale and Super Su 30 in black 8) 8) 8)
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by keshavchandra »

I have a question for gurus on flight training and tactics, I stay at pune close to airpost and as my observation on MKI flight schedules it covers 90 to 95 percent of it in day time; even max in morning and evening. So the question is, how we train our mki pilots for night operations and missions? Or is it any other base for such niche expertise?
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by shiv »

keshavchandra wrote:I have a question for gurus on flight training and tactics, I stay at pune close to airpost and as my observation on MKI flight schedules it covers 90 to 95 percent of it in day time; even max in morning and evening. So the question is, whow we train our mki pilots for night operations and missions? Or is it any other base for such niche expertise?
I think night flying is far more common from air bases far from urban centers that will be disturbed by the night time roar of jets. Even India has noise regulations. When Su-30s take off in the evening from Pune you will never know whether the same aircraft returned or went off to another base. Recall that it is light in Pune at 7-00 in the evening when it is darker in Bangalore and pitch black in central and east India due to the longitude difference.
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Singha »

there is a pic of a lineup of Su30 at kalaikunda , just about depart for a night exercise.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9 ... Y8yOl714eM
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by keshavchandra »

Singha wrote:there is a pic of a lineup of Su30 at kalaikunda , just about depart for a night exercise.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9 ... Y8yOl714eM
but sinha sir I yet not get the point, as pune and khadagpur both are B grade cities (as the noise and disturbance norms are based on cities grading)and both have urban air bases close to city. Even the ganaga nagar air base of mki havevery intense night flights prectices. And I think there is same situ in banglore of regular schedule night flights. So why not such particualrly in pune the night flights are not regular , even it is a big base with three mki squadrons.
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Singha »

I have never been to pune or know anything about it. was just pointing out some other IAF bases get quite active at night.
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by anand_sankar »

An interesting paper on the challenges of training for nightflying in the USAF.

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a240970.pdf
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by tsarkar »

^^ Lohegaon is being upgraded under MAFI project. Most likely night flying is on hold until the instrumentation is installed. I've seen Canberra's & Super Constallations night flying from Pune 40 years ago.

Added later - this is indeed the case http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... e-lohegaon
Browne, who has headed the Lohegaon airbase, said, "All MAFI-I works will be carried out during night hours in view of the civilian flight operations, which occur during daytime. We have set up an independent training establishment at the 7 Tetra School near the airbase for training our personnel in the handling of MAFI equipment," he said.
Barring the runway, MAFI-I augurs well for civilian flight operations as the project will see the Lohegaon airfield getting a new state-of-the-art instrument landing system (ILS), distance measure equipment, tactical air navigation system, automated air traffic management system, which is to be provided by US defence major Raytheon, and new runway lights, among others. The entire phase-I contract has been bagged by the Tata Power Strategic Electronics Division.
Philip
BRF Oldie
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Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Philip »

New Ind.Exp reports that the IAF will base SU-30s at Thanjavur and Sulur (Coimbatore) in the futre,both bases being modernised for the same.The LCA will eventually arrive at Sulur,most probably after the Flanker induction.With the other report that the LCA needs another 1500 crores,we might as well nickname it as a "Black hole"!.
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