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PostPosted: 12 Nov 2012 16:37 
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how about combat shotguns ? seems like a portable artillery in its own way. or are they deemed worldwide as too much of a "broad area room clearing" weapon to use in situations were civilians and hostages are embedded with the enemy?


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PostPosted: 12 Nov 2012 22:23 
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^^^Ghatak platoon's main purpose is to undertake operations in conventional war and hence, the choice of weapon system. Civilians and hostage situation is not something you need to equip the Ghatak platoons across the army for.


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PostPosted: 12 Nov 2012 22:38 
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rohitvats wrote:
^^^Ghatak platoon's main purpose is to undertake operations in conventional war and hence, the choice of weapon system. Civilians and hostage situation is not something you need to equip the Ghatak platoons across the army for.

Then why the submachine guns? Where are they supposed to be used on the battlefield? Wouldn't something like an MTAR or Micro-Tavor which the IA already uses be more useful?


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PostPosted: 12 Nov 2012 22:44 
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nachiket wrote:
rohitvats wrote:
^^^Ghatak platoon's main purpose is to undertake operations in conventional war and hence, the choice of weapon system. Civilians and hostage situation is not something you need to equip the Ghatak platoons across the army for.

Then why the submachine guns? Where are they supposed to be used on the battlefield? Wouldn't something like an MTAR or Micro-Tavor which the IA already uses be more useful?


Not to mention the stun grenades and riot shields?

I always thought that the Ghatak platoons were designed from the outset for COIN and other urban operations in J&K originally and then elsewhere. The rest of the Battalion is already tailored for regular combat operations. Unless you meant SF operations during war, but then we have regular units for that as well, don't we?


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PostPosted: 13 Nov 2012 06:20 
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Army Orders for Local Sights
Link


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PostPosted: 13 Nov 2012 09:14 
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koti wrote:
Army Orders for Local Sights
Link


Nice. What is the CEP of these devices when used for target acquisition at a distance of say 3 or 4 km?


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PostPosted: 13 Nov 2012 09:39 
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koti wrote:
Army Orders for Local Sights
Link



Nice news, the LRF should also have the designating function in order to guide smart munitions.


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PostPosted: 13 Nov 2012 10:22 
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vivek_ahuja wrote:
I always thought that the Ghatak platoons were designed from the outset for COIN and other urban operations in J&K originally and then elsewhere. The rest of the Battalion is already tailored for regular combat operations. Unless you meant SF operations during war, but then we have regular units for that as well, don't we?


Vivek ji, I think that Ghatak platoons attached to RR battalions are used for COIN ops. However the Ghatak platoons which are attached to regular infantry battalions will be used for supporting regular combat operations. I was reading somewhere that these Ghataks can be used for operations requiring shallow ingress thereby freeing Special forces to carry out operations deep behind enemy lines. Also SF targets will be relatively more strategic in nature.

The idea is to provide the commanding officer of the battalion with his own mini SF detatchment.


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PostPosted: 13 Nov 2012 11:59 
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vivek_ahuja wrote:
<SNIP>I always thought that the Ghatak platoons were designed from the outset for COIN and other urban operations in J&K originally and then elsewhere. The rest of the Battalion is already tailored for regular combat operations. Unless you meant SF operations during war, but then we have regular units for that as well, don't we?


The concept of Ghatak platoon IMO is not in context to the COIN operations. They were meant to be the 'strike and recce' elements for the battalion from what I know. Grenadier Yogendra Singh of Tiger Hill fame was part of such a Ghatak Platoon.

Added later: From the news item it is clear that these weapon systems are being added in addition to what is available at present. So, an Infantry Battalion would be capable of handling threats in COIN as well as Urban Warfare. The concept of having men with more advanced training is being given more teeth now with these weapon systems.


Last edited by rohitvats on 13 Nov 2012 12:04, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 13 Nov 2012 12:01 
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darshhan wrote:
<SNIP>Vivek ji, I think that Ghatak platoons attached to RR battalions are used for COIN ops. However the Ghatak platoons which are attached to regular infantry battalions will be used for supporting regular combat operations. I was reading somewhere that these Ghataks can be used for operations requiring shallow ingress thereby freeing Special forces to carry out operations deep behind enemy lines. Also SF targets will be relatively more strategic in nature.

The idea is to provide the commanding officer of the battalion with his own mini SF detatchment.


Ghatak Platoon is organic to a battalion and is formed from the men within the battalion. It more often than not consists of the most fit men from the paltan and generally led by a young subaltern. So, there is no attachment business here....


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PostPosted: 13 Nov 2012 13:36 
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^^Thanks for the correction. Meant the same but used the wrong word


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PostPosted: 13 Nov 2012 15:18 
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koti wrote:
Army Orders for Local Sights
Link


The army has been complaining of night blindness. This should certainly help. The weight should still be brought down to 2-2.5 kg IMHO but a great start nevertheless. Indian industry and Indian brains can acheive great things if the GOI and the Army gives them a chance instead of the fetish for all things foreign.


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PostPosted: 13 Nov 2012 20:59 
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rohitvats wrote:
3 divisions with organic helicopter support and airlift.... :eek: :eek: :shock: .....no wonder it will cost 65000 crores!!!!

VK Singh seems to have planned for assault on Lhsasa...!!!!


:D :D :D :D


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PostPosted: 13 Nov 2012 23:17 
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Happy Diwali to our brave Jawans and Officers of Indian armed forces.. And also to our Jingos.. :D


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PostPosted: 14 Nov 2012 00:01 
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Quote:
Ordered to do menial tasks, Army jawans desert Patiala unit

Chandigarh: In yet another breach of discipline in the Indian Army, around 16 soldiers of an armoured regiment based in Patiala left their unit after being forced by their seniors to perform 'menial tasks'.

As per reports, the jawans were part of the 56 Armoured Regiment stationed at Patiala as part of the elite 1 Armoured Division.

The jawans were allegedly asked by some officers to carry out 'menial tasks'. They allegedly protested stating that they belonged to Army's clerk cadres and were supposed to do specific tasks only, The Indian Express reported.


Reports stated that the soldiers returned to their regimental centre in Ahmednagar after the Commanding Officer (CO) issued orders to punish them for showing dissent.

CO had the jawans put through a 'Battle Physical and Proficiency Test (BPET) which requires one to run several kilometres and cross obstacles in full battle gear. They were then forced to do a 'route march’.

The newspaper added that queries to Western Command's Chandimandir-based headquarters went unanswered and no statement was issued in this regard.

Over a 1,000 soldiers have committed suicide since 2003, with the yearly toll regularly climbing over 100. Incidents of fragging (to kill or wound a fellow soldier) have also become a regular phenomenon in the 1.13-million strong Army.

A report by the Defence Institute of Psychological Research had held that "perceived humiliation and harassment, over and above occupational and familial causes", by their superiors often serves as the final "trigger" for jawans in stress-related cases in the forces.

The Army has, meanwhile, ordered a probe into the matter.


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PostPosted: 14 Nov 2012 00:41 
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^^

Not understood the report clearly. Is the dissent shown because the clerks were ordered to do BPET? :shock:

Is that the "menial task" that upset them? Or have I got it wrong in my understanding?


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PostPosted: 14 Nov 2012 00:52 
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Has the army got rid of that colonial concept of orderlies yet? Red somewhere that the practice was to be abolished or was already abolished. Dont rightly remember.


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PostPosted: 14 Nov 2012 04:34 
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Army cannot take that decision on its own. It had sent a proposal to MOD to do away with the system.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... lonels-sas

Quote:
The Army headquarters has suggested that the 'sahayaks' be replaced by civilian personnel. Sources said Shimla-based Army Training Command carried out a detailed study of the concept of buddy system existing in major armies around the world. The study was ordered by General V K Singh early on his tenure as Army chief. The training command submitted several scenarios, from which the final 'solution' was submitted to the ministry.


Quote:
The Army proposes to replace soldiers with two kinds of civilians - Service Assistants (SA) and Non-Combatant Assistants (NCA). It would require 2,358 SAs and 22,620 NCAs to replace sahayaks. The Army has projected a monthly expenditure of Rs 3.54 crore for the SAs and Rs 11.31 crore for NCAs. The annual expenditure for the civilian setup to be brought in place of 'sahayaks' would be Rs 178.20 crore a year, according to Army estimates.


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PostPosted: 14 Nov 2012 08:52 
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Gaur wrote:
Army cannot take that decision on its own. It had sent a proposal to MOD to do away with the system.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... lonels-sas

Quote:
The Army headquarters has suggested that the 'sahayaks' be replaced by civilian personnel. Sources said Shimla-based Army Training Command carried out a detailed study of the concept of buddy system existing in major armies around the world. The study was ordered by General V K Singh early on his tenure as Army chief. The training command submitted several scenarios, from which the final 'solution' was submitted to the ministry.


Quote:
The Army proposes to replace soldiers with two kinds of civilians - Service Assistants (SA) and Non-Combatant Assistants (NCA). It would require 2,358 SAs and 22,620 NCAs to replace sahayaks. The Army has projected a monthly expenditure of Rs 3.54 crore for the SAs and Rs 11.31 crore for NCAs. The annual expenditure for the civilian setup to be brought in place of 'sahayaks' would be Rs 178.20 crore a year, according to Army estimates.


Would these civilians have protection under Geneva Convention ? Or would they be restricted to non-combatzones only ?


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PostPosted: 14 Nov 2012 10:33 
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srin wrote:
Would these civilians have protection under Geneva Convention ? Or would they be restricted to non-combatzones only ?

Srin,

The abuse of the Sahayak system is more severe in non-combat zones and during peace time. During war, somebody needs to cover officers while they are performing coordinating, radioing or for acting as a runner or as a driver. These are very important army duties for which sometimes exclusive personnel are needed and if the sahayak system was used exclusively for this, no one would have looked twice.

Using soldiers to help out for the families or getting the dress ready and using them for shoe polish, i.e. the abuse in non-combat peace zones is what brings the system to disrepute. For example each and every single one of the sahayak right now in Delhi is a gross abuse. That some of these duties are "official" doesnt make the duties or system right.

Some sahayaks are used by MoD civilian personnel as domestic helps and it was rumoured/conjectured that this was where the MoD reluctance came from.


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PostPosted: 14 Nov 2012 10:41 
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Here we go again... Now where did the Sahayak link come into this news report? :roll:


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PostPosted: 14 Nov 2012 10:46 
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Ajay Sharma wrote:
Here we go again... Now where did the Sahayak link come into this news report? :roll:

Does Indian army have sahayak system? Then it comes under this thread, whether one likes it or not. Suddenly do we have problems for writing inside the thread topic itself.


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PostPosted: 14 Nov 2012 11:14 
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^^
Pls go through my question again... "Where did the Sahayak link come into this news report?"


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PostPosted: 14 Nov 2012 12:18 
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While it would not be appropriate to guess-estimate what happened in 56 AR w/o further information, IMO, this argument of doing specific tasks in the army is BS of the highest order. Generally, troops in the Clerks Grade would not be asked to do anything outside their scope of work - they are a rare commodity as it is.

But there may be a possible explanation for this act - 56 AR is a new formation - it has been raised recently under the expansion plan authorized for the Armored Corps. And mind you, when a new unit/formation is raised, the entire set up is beehive of activity with hell lot of stuff required to be done. So, in such circumstances, it is likely that some personnel were asked to do what can be conceived by them as 'menial task'. On top of this, I would really be interested to know the age bracket of this group of dissenters.


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PostPosted: 14 Nov 2012 19:21 
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Dunno how these armoured regiments do it, but in an Infantry battalion, EVERY soldier is an infantryman, regardless whether he is a cook, cleaner, washerman, clerk or what have you. Everyone does what he is told. And no task is too menial.

It will probably turn out that these fellows were asked to pitch in, and didnt. They will have been very unkindly put upon by their colleagues who had to fill in for them.


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PostPosted: 14 Nov 2012 19:26 
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^^
Agree that the Clerks Grade generally won't get the "ragda" of BPET, however, technically everyone in the unit is expected to do. If this was a case of they feeling BPET to be "menial", then its very surprising

Either ways, not a good news in terms of this happening and (ofcourse) this getting the bytes in media


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PostPosted: 14 Nov 2012 20:10 
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ASPuar wrote:
Dunno how these armoured regiments do it, but in an Infantry battalion, EVERY soldier is an infantryman, regardless whether he is a cook, cleaner, washerman, clerk or what have you. Everyone does what he is told. And no task is too menial.


Not sure of how it is in Armoured Regts, but in Inf and Arty all grades have a primary weapon assigned to them and the well oiled units ensure that these folks (cooks, washermen, drivers, etc.) go through their basic training including acceptable levels of physical fitness


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PostPosted: 15 Nov 2012 02:40 
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The way i read the news item and chain of events

.> Some Offiers of armoured regiment based in Patiala asked Army's clerk cadres to carry out 'menial tasks'.
.> They allegedly protested.
.> Commanding Officer (CO) issued orders to punish them for showing dissent.
.> CO had the jawans put through a 'Battle Physical and Proficiency Test (BPET) which requires one to run several kilometres and cross obstacles in full battle gear. They were then forced to do a 'route march’.
.> These soldiers left their unit returned to their regimental centre in Ahmednagar.


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PostPosted: 15 Nov 2012 06:27 
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Ajay Sharma wrote:
^^
Agree that the Clerks Grade generally won't get the "ragda" of BPET, however, technically everyone in the unit is expected to do. If this was a case of they feeling BPET to be "menial", then its very surprising

Either ways, not a good news in terms of this happening and (ofcourse) this getting the bytes in media


From what I can infer from the news report, the BPET and route march were the punishments and not the 'menial tasks' they were asked to do. They do not mention anywhere what exactly those tasks were.


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PostPosted: 15 Nov 2012 10:49 
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Ajay Sharma wrote:
Not understood the report clearly. Is the dissent shown because the clerks were ordered to do BPET?

If I got it right. The deserters landed back at their Regimental Centre, and then they were put on BPET and a route march as punishment. The 'menial task' business happened before this. BTW, are'nt clerks in Army "combatised"? That is they are as good as a regular soldier, with the clerk part being a trade.


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PostPosted: 15 Nov 2012 15:50 
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Hi all,

I have a personal request and I wanted to know if anyone can help me.

My mausaji is son of Brig. Hoshiyar Singh who won the PVC in 1962.
On 27th Nov 2012, there is a function being held in his village in remembrance of his supreme sacrifice 50 years ago.
My mausaji wanted to know if there is any Defence Correspondent who would be interested in covering this event.

Does any one have any suggestions / links?

Thanking you in Anticipation,
aX


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PostPosted: 15 Nov 2012 16:52 
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akimalik wrote:
Hi all,

I have a personal request and I wanted to know if anyone can help me.

My mausaji is son of Brig. Hoshiyar Singh who won the PVC in 1962.

is it Col Hoshiar Singh, PVC you are referring to?
http://twdi.in/node/1061
MAJOR Hoshiar Singh, 3 GRENADIERS, (IC-14608)
: 1971 : India
http://india.gov.in/myindia/paramvircha ... _list1.php

No Brigadier by that name, in the list, who won a PVC in'62


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PostPosted: 15 Nov 2012 17:07 
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Officer-jawan acrimony denting morale
quoting full report
Quote:
With as many as four incidents of serious face-offs between officers and jawans in the last one year alone, the Army has realised that there is an urgent need for bridging the generational gap between the two sides at the operational units.

A recent study by the Army also found that the vital connection between officers and jawans, crucial for fighting battles, is slowly fading out and this can pose serious problems of man management.

Hence, the new human resource development policy — titled Professional Military Education — put in place by the Army since last week calls for special focus on having more junior officers and giving them longer stints in the operational units to increase camaraderie among the unit members.

Facing acute shortage of officers in battalions, having just about six officers against the sanctioned 20 officers), the study leave policy has also been completely rehauled. Officers will now avail of study leave only after serving mandatory years in the field. But they can undertake only those courses which are relevant to their present job profile.

Even junior commissioned officers (JCO) or jawans will now be given opportunity for undertaking courses normally meant for junior officers. Further, the stress is more on usage of internet and online facilities for studies.

At present, there is an overall shortage of more than 12,000 officers despite the Government taking several measures to make a career in the armed forces more attractive.

The posting of junior officers, officials said, will ensure that they spend more time in their units in the field while studying through the internet facilities. Sources said one of the main reasons of face offs was shortage of junior officers in units operating in stressful environment like counter-insurgency. And reworking of study leave will enable more officers to be in the field rather than undergoing courses at far off places.

Explaining the ground situation, officials said, at present, there only six to seven officers present in a battalion (1,000 men) instead of the sanctioned strength of 20 officers. Most units are managed by 10-12 officers and out of those three are generally on study leave while one or two are on annual leave. This puts tremendous pressure on the remaining five or six officers thereby affecting their performance and growing distance with the men they lead, officials said.

As per the new HR policy, courses have been categorized as “must do, should do” and “could do”. Preference will be given to “must do” courses, which are generally professional in nature like studying strategy or weapon craft or related topics, officials said.

This will give more exposure to jawans and at the same time free the junior officer to be in the unit and interact more with his men, learn about their problems and generally act as their elder brother or mentor.

Giving specific examples of restricting study leave, officials said now an officer will be allowed to sit for the Staff College examination only after completing 12 years of service. Earlier, an officer could appear for this examination till the age of 34 years.

This led to officers concentrating more on studies than their professional duties resulting in neglect of the men under their command. Officials said the issue came up for discussion during the recently concluded army commanders’ conference.

They said these measures meant for cutting edge officers in the service bracket of six to 15 years and who have to lead their men into battle will see the strength of officers in units going up by 18 to 20 per cent in the next one year or so.

Moreover, only combat arms officers like infantry, armoured corps and artillery will now undergo the Junior Officers’ course instead of all the army officers made to do the course earlier. This measure will free many more officers for field duties, sources said.

One thing that I have not been able to understand is that the shortfall of number of officers in the army is always around the same levels. It was 20 years ago that I read the shortfall was 15000. Could it be one of the "30% of NASA engineers are Indians" type number that gets quoted without any checks/confirmation from reliable sources?


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PostPosted: 15 Nov 2012 20:08 
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I think what the above report tries to convey is that Junior Officers will spend more time doing Regimental Duties then on courses and may be less on (not mentioned-my interpretation) various courses and staff duties. But it uses the term 'Study Leave' erroneously...Study Leave is a special term used when officers after X amount of service can avail 2-year paid leave to pursue professional courses.


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PostPosted: 15 Nov 2012 21:00 
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Hiten wrote:
No Brigadier by that name, in the list, who won a PVC in'62


no I am referring to Brig. Hoshiyar Singh of the Jat Regiment
Refer to the links below:
1962 War: The Chinese invasion - III
The Se La Debacle of 1962


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PostPosted: 15 Nov 2012 22:05 
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Insas rifles may be on its way out


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PostPosted: 16 Nov 2012 00:43 
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An amazing video on Indian Army Aviation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFRawI-bEw4


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PostPosted: 24 Nov 2012 17:29 
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The media exposure to the various corruption scandals that have dogged the army and the India military in the past few years have also contributed to the friction between the Jawans and the officers in the army.

During a recent visit to North sikkim, a jawan pointed out a 6x6 tatra truck to me and another civilian working with the army stating, "see thats the tatra truck that has been in the news for corruption". I discussed the issue with him and pointed out that the performance of the truck wasn't really a problem and what was the exact issue as far as the allegation of corruption was concerned. The jawan concurred that yes, the truck is able to climb the mountainous terrain easily when required and mentioned that he was aware that the over pricing of the trucks was the main issue.

Issues like this can breed a kind of cynicism in the minds of the ordinary Jawans, that the things at the top and in Delhi are not quite right. When a stressful incident then happens in their line of duty, the tempers flare up.

Incidently the jawan had also served previously in Nyoma and Demchok and when I mentioned about the incident at Demchok, he immediately said, yes there had been a fight between the officers and Jawans at Demchok. The posts at Demchok by the way can be seen from the chinese side with the help of Binoculars.


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PostPosted: 24 Nov 2012 20:15 
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http://www.indiaagainstcorruption.org/index.php/26-11
26/11 के हमले में दुश्मनों को मार गिराने वाले एनएसजी कमांडो का हक क्यों मार लिया गया?

26/11 2008 को मुंबई पर आतंकी हमले हुए. सैकड़ो बेकसूर लोगों की जान गई थी. आतंकी मुंबई की सड़कों पर मौत बरसाते घूम रहे थे. आतंकियों को उनकी औकात बताने के लिए सरकार ने राष्ट्रीय सुरक्षा गार्ड यानी एनएसजी के कमांडो को ड्यूटी पर लगाया था. हमले के कुछ ही घंटे के भीतर एनएसजी के जाबांज कमांडो हरियाणा के मानेसर से मुंबई पहुंच चुके थे.

एनएसजी ने इस अभियान को ऑपरेशन ब्लैक टॉर्नेडो नाम दिया था. इसमें शामिल होने आए कमांडोज में एक तो ऐसे भी थे जिनके घर में चार दिन पहले बच्चे का जन्म हुआ था और वे बजाय अपने बच्चे का मुंह देखने के आतंकियों से भिड़ने निकल पड़े थे. ऐसे ही एक कमांडो हैं सुरेंद्र सिंह. हरियाणा के झज्झर जिले के छारा गांव के रहने वाले कमांडो सुरेंद्र सिंह ने सेना की ग्रेनेडियर्स युनिट से थे और नियुक्ति पर उन्हें तीन साल के लिए एनएसजी में भेजा गया था. कमांडो सुरेंद्र जिस युनिट में थे उसे ताज होटल को खाली कराने की जिम्मेदारी दी गई थी. एनएसजी कमांडो की टीम एक-एक फ्लोर को खाली कराती सबसे ऊपरी मंजिल तक पहुंच गई. उधर हेलिकॉप्टर से उतरे कमांडोज की एक टुकड़ी ऊपर से नीचे की ओर बढ़ रही थी. जब आतंकियों को लगने लगा कि अब वे पूरी तरह घिर गए हैं तो उन्होंने ताबड़तोड़ ग्रेनेड फेंकना शुरू कर दिया. कमांडो सुरेंद्र सिंह की टीम ने दो आतंकियों को ढेर कर दिया. इस बीच एक ग्रेनेड कमांडो सुरेंद्र के नजदीक फटा. उससे निकले छर्रों से सुरेंद्र सिंह बुरी तरह घायल हो गए.

एनएसजी हॉस्पिटल और आर्मी बेस हॉस्पिटल में उन्हें ईलाज के लिए जे जाया गया. डॉक्टरों ने जांच के बाद लिखा कि एनएसजी कमांडो सुरेंद्र सिंह ग्रेनेड के हमले में बुरी तरह जख्मी हुए हैं. उनके दाहिने कंधे, बाएं पैर में छर्रों की वजह से गहरे जख्म हुए हैं और धमाके की आवाज के कारण वह दोनों कानों से बहरे हो चुके हैं. सेना के डॉक्टरों ने इस रिपोर्ट के आधार पर कमांडो सुरेंद्र सिंह को सेना में काम करने के लिए पूरी तरह अयोग्य़ घोषित कर दिया.

15 अक्टूबर 2011 को 14 साल तीन महीने और 10 दिन तक सेना की सेवा के बाद उन्हें सेवामुक्ति दे दी गई. बाद में जब उन्होंने सेवा पेंशन के लिए अर्जी दी सेना के ग्रेनेडियर्स अभिलेखा कार्यालय ने(The Grenadiers Records ) ने 6 जून 2012 को जारी पत्र संख्या 2691391L/Claim/ D-Pen के जरिए कमांडो सुरेंद्र सिंह की सेवा पेंशन की अर्जी यह कहते हुए खारिज कर दी कि उन्होंने 15 साल की सेवा अवधि पूरी नहीं की है इसलिए उन्हें सेवा पेंशन नहीं दिया जा सकता. तकरीबन एक साल से ज्यादा का वक्त बीत चुका है लेकिन अभी तक कमांडो सुरेंद्र को अभी तक कोई सेवालाभ नहीं दिया गया है. वह अपनी जमा-पूंजी से अपना इलाज करा रहे हैं. ईलाज पर तकरीबन एक लाख रुपए से ज्यादा खर्च कर चुके हैं.

लोगों के दिमाग में 26/11 याद है. हमले के दौरान जिदा पकड़ा गया एकमात्र आतंकी अजमल आमिर कसाब याद रहा, कसाब की बिरयानी से लेकर शादी करने की हसरतें और यहां तक कि उसे मच्छर के काटने तक की बातों की खूब चर्चा होती रही. लेकिन देश अगर किसी को भूल गया तो वे थे एनएसजी के वे जाबांज कमांडोज जिन्होंने अपनी जान पर खेलकर मुंबई को आतंकियों से मुक्त कराया था. जिनके साहस, जिनके बलिदान की एनएसजी में कद्र नहीं हुई. वे अपने अधिकारों के लिए लगातार संघर्ष करते रहे. उनके संघर्ष में साथ देने वाला कोई नहीं था. कुछ लोग इस लड़ाई में इतने थक गए कि उन्होंने नौकरी से तौबा कर ली, कुछ की संघर्ष शक्ति से घबराकर सेना ने उन्हें नौकरी से निकाल दिया. उनको पैसे-पैसे का मोहताज बना दिया.

http://www.indiaagainstcorruption.org/i ... 2-14-06-26

सेना के दावे पर कमांडो सुरेंद्र सिंह का पक्ष

सेना का दावा कमांडो सुरेंद्र सिंह को दी जा चुकी हैं सभी सुविधाएं, सुरेंद्र सिंह ने इसे बताया सफेद झूठ
दिल्ली, 22 नवंबर. 26/11 ऑपरेशन में दुश्मनों का बहादुरी से सामना करने वाले कमांडो नायक सुरेंद्र सिंह के अपने हक की मांग के लिए मीडिया में जाने के बाद सेना और सरकार की ओर से एक के बाद एक नए दावे किए जा रहे हैं. हर दावे में यह जिक्र है कि कमांडो सुरेंद्र सिंह जो कुछ भी मांग कर रहे हैं वह नाजायज है. उन्हें उनका हक दिया जा रहा है.
सेना ने एक नोट जारी करके अपना पक्ष रखा है और कमांडो सुरेंद्र सिंह के सभी आरोपों को खारिज कर दिया है. लेकिन सेना के दावे उसकी अपनी ही बातों का खंडन करते हैं. सुरेंद्र सिंह ने बिंदुवार सेना के एक-एक दावे पर अपना पक्ष रखा है.
1. पीआईबी के रक्षा विंग की ओर से जारी नोट में कहा गया है कि नायक सुरेंद्र सिंह की पेंशन और रिटायरमेंट के बाद दी जाने वाली ग्रेच्युटी मंजूर कर ली गई है. इस नोट की भाषा पर गौर करें. सेना कह रही है कि उसने सुरेंद्र सिंह की पेंशन और रिटायरमेंट ग्रेच्युटी की बात मंजूर कर ली है. यानी सेना सिर्फ मंजूरी की बात कह रही है, वह यह नहीं कह रही कि सुरेंद्र को पैसे दिए गए हैं.

सुरेंद्र सिंह ने आज प्रेस से बातचीत में भी यही कहा कि उन्हें अभी तक कोई पैसा नहीं मिला. उन्हें सेना से अलग हए 13 महीने गुजर चुके हैं और वह अपने पैसे के लिए लगातार चक्कर काट रहे हैं. यानी सुरेंद्र सिंह ने जो बात कही उसे सेना झुठला नहीं रही बस शब्दों में हेर-फेर करके सुरेंद्र को गलत साबित करने की कोशिश की जा रही है. अगर सेना के दावे को एक पल के लिए मान भी लिया जाए तो क्या देश के सैनिकों को अपने हक की मांग के लिए प्रेस में जाना होगा. जब तक वे प्रेस में नहीं जाएंगे उनकी बात सुनी नहीं जाएगी. एक सवाल यह भी उठता है कि सेना ने अगर सचमुच ऐसा कोई निर्णय किया था तो इसकी सूचना सुरेंद्र सिंह को पत्र लिखकर क्यों नहीं दी गई?सारे सरकारी निर्णयों के लिए पत्राचार जरूरी होता है. लेकिन इस मामले में कोई पत्राचार नहीं होना इस बात का इशारा करता है कि ये फैसले पहले हुए ही नहीं हैं. अगर कोई बात प्रक्रिया शुरू हुई भी होगी तो वह आज के प्रेस कांफ्रेस के बाद हुई होगी.

2. सेना का दावा है कि सुरेंद्र सिंह को हर महीने 25,254 रुपए की पेंशन मंजूर की गई है. सेना सिर्फ मंजूरी की बात कह रही है. वह यह दावा नहीं कर रही कि उन्हें पैसे दिए जा रहे हैं. सुरेंद्र भी तो यही बात कह रहे हैं कि उन्हें सेना से मुक्त हुए 13 महीने हो गए और कोई पेंशन नहीं मिल रही. ईलाज के लिए उन्हें काफी खर्च करना पड़ रहा है और उसके कारण वह आर्थिक तंगी से गुजर रहे हैं.

सुरेंद्र सिंह को पेंशन की मंजूरी के सेना के दावे में एक विरोधाभास है. सेना का दावा है कि सुरेंद्र सिंह को 25,254 रुपए प्रतिमाह की पेंशन दी जानी मंजूर हुई है जिसमें सेवा पेंशन और युद्ध विकलांगता पेंशन दोनों सम्मिलित हैं. सेना के ग्रेनेडियर्स रिकॉर्ड्स ने 6 जून 2012 में पत्र संख्या 2691391L/ Claim/D-Pen में सुरेंद्र सिंह को लिखकर साफ-साफ बता दिया था कि उन्होंने 15 साल की सेवा पूरी नहीं की है इसलिए वह पेंशन के हकदार ही नहीं है. तो सेना ने अचानक कैसे सेवा पेंशन और युद्ध विकलांगता पेंशन की बात शुरू कर दी है. क्या वह उनको रिटायरमेंट के बाद दिया जाने वाला पेंशन देने को तैयार है या फिर यह युद्ध में घायल सिपाही को दिए जाने वाले पेंशन की बात कर रहे हैं. यह तो सुरेंद्र सिंह का अधिकार है. अगर सेना के मन में अपने बहादुर सिपाही के प्रति सच में कोई सदभावना है तो उन्हें रिटायरमेंट के बाद दिए जाने वाला पेंशन क्यों नहीं दिया जा रहा. सेना के प्रावधानों के तहत ऐसा आसानी से किया जा सकता है.
3. सेना का एक और दावा यह है कि उन्हें जिला सैनिक बोर्ड झज्जर द्वारा 05-10-2012 को भूतपूर्व सैनिक स्वास्थय कार्ड(ECHS CARD) को सुरेंद्र सिंह को हाथ में सुपुर्द किया गया. सेना का यह दावा गलत है. सुरेंद्र सिंह ने 08-10-2011 को Regional Director ECHS Delhi Cantt के नाम एक डिमांड ड्राफ्ट (संख्या 819161, एसबीआई, बोहर शाखा, हरियाणा) तैयार कराया और नियमानुसार Regional Director ECHS Delhi Cantt को भेजा. ग्रेनेडियर्स रिकॉर्ड्स ने सुरेंद्र सिंह का ड्राफ्ट यह कहते हुए 02-05-2012 को लौटा दिया कि यह ड्राफ्ट ECHS Delhi Cantt के नाम नहीं बल्कि ECHS जबलपुर के नाम बनना चाहिए था. इस बात की सूचना पत्र संख्या 0954/SR/Y/ECHS के माध्यम से दी गई. इसके बाद ग्रेनेडियर्स रिकॉर्ड्स ने 03-09-2012 को एक अस्थाई ईसीएचएस कार्ड भेजा. इसकी सूचना पत्र संख्या 26913911/SR/ECHS के द्वारा सुरेंद्र सिंह को दी गई. ध्यान देने योग्य बात है कि अगर सुरेंद्र सिंह के डीडी में कोई तकनीकी त्रुटि रह गई थी तो उसकी सूचना देने में नौ महीने का वक्त क्यों लगा. इस बीच ईलाज का खर्च जुटाने में सुरेंद्र सिंह को तमाम कठिनाई झेलनी पड़ी.

4. रक्षा विंग की ओर से जारी प्रेस विज्ञप्ति में कहा गया है कि कमांडो सुरेंद्र सिंह ऑपरेशन ब्लैक टॉर्नेडो में घायल हुए और मेडिकल जांच के बाद इस निर्णय पर पहुंचा गया कि कमांडो सुरेंद्र सिंह बायें कान से बहरे हो चुके हैं. यह दावे दो बड़े सवाल खड़े करता है. पहला, कमांडो सुरेंद्र सिंह को सेवा से अलग करने के पीछे सेना ने जो कारण लिखित रूप में बताया था उसमें कहा गया है कि सुरेंद्र दोनों कानों से शत प्रतिशत बहरे हो चुके हैं इसलिए उन्हें सेवा में बनाए नहीं रखा जा सकता. तो सेना का कौन सा दावा सही है? सुरेंद्र को सेवा मुक्ति के दौरान किया गया दावा या आज की प्रेस कांफ्रेंस के बाद किया गया सेना का दावा?
5. सेना ने अपने नोट में दावा किया है कि गैर-सरकारी संस्थानों से भी आर्थिक सहायता आती है वह एनएसजी कल्याण कोष में जमा होती है. सेना का यह दावा कई शंकाओं को जन्म देता है. सुरेंद्र सिंह ने मुख्य सूचना आयुक्त के आदेश के बाद 06-11-2012 को जब एनएसजी मुख्यालय की फाइलों का मुआयना किया तो पाया कि उनके नाम पर रोहन मोटर्स की ओर से दो लाख रुपए की एक रकम स्वीकार की गई है. रोहन मोटर्स ने सुरेंद्र सिंह के नाम से जो चेक लिखा था वह कॉरपोरेशन बैंक का था और उसका चेक नंबर 409796 है जो 09-01-2009 को जारी किया गया था. ऐसे ही आठ और चेक अलग-अलग गैर-सरकारी संस्थाओं द्वारा जारी किए गए जिसकी फोटोकॉपी फाइल में लगी थी औऱ भुगतान दिखाया गया था. इसके अलावा हरेक शहीद के नाम से 10 लाख रुपए की रकम भी स्वीकार की गई है जिसकी फोटोकॉपियां फाइलों में दर्ज हैं.

एक सैनिक जो करगिल की लड़ाई लड़ चुका है, जिसने मुंबई के आतंकी हमले में अपनी जान की बाजी लगा दी. जो ग्रेनेड से घायल होने के बावजूद लड़ता रहा और दो आतंकियों को ढेर किया, उसके साथ सेना आमने-सामने खड़ी नजर आने लगी है. सेना का तो फर्ज बनता था कि वह अपने बहादुर जवान को जो दुश्मनों से लड़ता हुआ विकलांग हो गया था उसकी सेवाएं तत्काल खत्म करने की बजाय मानवीय आधार पर उसे आठ महीने के लिए दूसरे ऑफिस जॉब में लगा सकती थी ताकि वह 15 साल की सेवा अवधि पूरी करके सेवा पेंशन के हकदार बन सकें. लेकिन दुख की बात है कि सेना ने अपने जवान के साथ हमदर्दी नहीं दिखाई.

FROM MAJ NAVDEEP SINGH.
http://www.indianmilitary.info/2012/11/ ... mbles.html

Agree with AK or not, system in shambles!

I do not personally agree with the manner adopted by Kejriwal in parading a former commando in front of TV cameras with his woes. I may not agree, but others may, and that is just my own humble opinion.

However, if the allegation of delay in release of pension for 14 months after invalidation is true, then it is unforgivable. If the delay was actually there then it should have been admitted by the system rather than putting out a morbid PIB press release which confuses the issue for the public at large to consume. It is yet another matter that though the official press release talks a lot about the enormous benefits released, it does not state as to whether there was a delay in the grant of pension or not or the date of release of the person from service and the date when the pension was released.

It has been oft repeated that delay in release of pension, especially for disability pensioners, is due to the internal procedures involved and regularly happens in many cases. But is this correct? Or are there guidelines governing the issue?.

What the PIB press release and the official establishment do not want to come to light is the provisions of Paragraph 19 of Appendix C of Integrated HQ of Ministry of Defence (Army) Letter No B/40122/MA(P)/AG/PS-5 dated 20 July 2006 which clearly provides that the Release/Invaliding Medical Board (RMB/IMB) is supposed to be conducted 8 months prior to release and the approval is to be granted within 1 month of the RMB/IMB and then adjudication is to take place within 3 months of RMB/IMB and sent to the office of Principal Controller of Defence Accounts (Pensions) who is then supposed to issue a Pension Payment Order (PPO) within 1 month of the receipt of the claim. Hence in normal circumstances, the PPO for disability / war injury pension is to be issued 3 months prior to discharge/invalidation. The delay, if any, can only happen in cases involving rejection of claims of attributability resulting in a fresh medical board and in that case too, in accordance with the period prescribed, the PPO is to be issued about 15 days prior to release from service.

Keeping in view the above mentioned procedure already codified as an SOP, any delay is unacceptable, especially in the case of the NSG commando, and neither it should be defended nor condoned. The correct way out for the Govt or the Army was to fix responsibility as to who were the persons involved in the delay. People sitting in bureaucratic chairs do not realize and cannot fathom that being out of service how these disability pensioners would survive or feed their families till the time pension is released, how would they receive medical care since many would not know that ECHS Medical Cards are not issued to disability pensioners till the time the disability pension PPO is issued.

The delay is nothing new. Thousands of claims are languishing with the Personnel Services Directorate and the Pension wing of the MoD for resolution and adjudication. Appeals are also delayed inordinately resulting in perpetuation of sufferings of the disabled. A live case handled by me just a few days ago was of an invalided Captain who was released in the year 2000 but has received his Pension Payment Order (PPO) for his complete service benefits now, in November 2012. And that too, not with the help of the system, but through the help of a mere RTI Application. It is yet another matter that the Supreme Court has laid down that pension should be released forthwith on the date of retirement and that any delay in release of pension should be penalized with interest at market rates.

We’ve been saying this on this blog since long and all of us have been playing our small little roles but there is much to do.

To put it succinctly, the Govt should not just unnecessarily rebut what is now coming out in public light, it should resolve these issues rather than retorting with mindless egoistic press releases.

PRESS RELEASE BY MINISTRY OF DEFENCE

http://pib.nic.in/newsite/erelease.aspx?relid=89228

Allegation of Non-Payment of Pensionary Benefits to Nk Surender Singh not Correct

In a press conference today, retired Nk Surender Singh of 2 GRENADIERS and an ex NSG Commando expressed some grievances against the government. These pertained to alleged lack of adequate compensation and financial benefits to those who were killed/injured in the 26/11, Operation Black Tornado in Mumbai. Response with respect to the issues raised is enumerated in succeeding paragraphs.

In the 26/11 Mumbai operations, one Officer and one Non Commissioned Officer were martyred and 17 Officers and Other Ranks were injured. Both martyrs Major Sandeep Unnikrishnan and Havildar Gajender Singh were awarded the Ashok Chakra (Posthumous). The NOK of Major Unnikrishnan got a financial compensation of approximately Rs.1.3 Crores and a flat. Similarly, the wife of Havildar Gajender Singh received approximately Rs.1.27 Crore, a petrol pump and a flat. His mother too received Rs.15 Lakhs approximately. Both these personnel also received enhanced pension benefits as applicable in the Army.

As regards the injured, there were one Kirti Chakra, two Shourya Chakra, six Sena Medals, one Mention in Despatch and three Chief of the Army Staff Commendation Cards awarded. Four persons with grievous injuries received financial compensation of Rs.4.8 lakh each and others with lesser injuries received Rs.2.3 lakh each.

NSG is a deputation organization where personnel from the Army serve for three years and those from the CAPF, for 5 years. Nk Surender Singh came to the NSG on 9 May 2007. He suffered Acoustic Trauma during the Mumbai operations and became a permanent Low Medical Category on account of Sensory Neural Deafness of the Left Ear. In the normal Course, he would have been reverted to his parent unit 2 GRENADIERS on completion of his three year tenure on 8 May 2010. However, on compassionate grounds, he was retained in the NSG till 15 October 2011, when he was boarded out by a Medical Board at Army Base Hospital Delhi under the aegis of HQ Delhi Area.

Nk Surender Singh has been sanctioned pensionary and terminal benefits viz-a-viz retirement gratuity Rs.2,11,458/-, Commutation of pension Rs.11,35,809/-, Armed Forces PF Rs.6,48,195/-, Army Group Insurance Rs.1,13,849/- and Army Group Disability Cover Rs.10 lakhs, Final settlement of accounts Rs.89,705/- and ex-gratia from welfare fund Rs.10,000/-. He is also entitled to an ex-gratia compensation of Rs.9 lakhs for 100% disability which will be processed separately. He has been sanctioned a pension of Rs.25,254/- per month which includes service elements and war injury elements.

His Ex Servicemen Health Scheme Card has also been dispatched to the Zila Sainik Board, Jhajjar District on 05 October 2012 for handing over to the individual.

As regards, financial donations received from various private entities, in accordance with the Service Rules, only contributions to the NSG Central Welfare Fund were accepted. For financial contributions on individual names, only amounts received for the NOK of the deceased were accepted and paid to the NOK. Other contributions were returned to the donors in accordance with rules with the proviso that the same be remitted to the NSG Central Welfare Fund. Therefore, the Cheque of Rs.7 lakh received from Mr. MS Dhoni was for the NSG Central Welfare Fund and was credited accordingly.

The Government has taken all care to pay all entitled terminal benefits due to Nk Surender Singh. In case, he still has any grievance, the Ministry of Defence is prepared to look into it.


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PostPosted: 28 Nov 2012 04:10 
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Take Pak to ICJ for war crimes: Martyr’s dad
Quote:
Retired scientist N K Kalia will not rest in peace till he gets justice for his martyred son Captain Saurabh Kalia, who was captured, brutally tortured and killed by Pakistani intruders just before the Kargil conflict erupted in the summer of 1999.


Quote:
Continuing his lonely 13-year-long battle, the senior Kalia is now knocking on the doors of the Supreme Court seeking directions to the Union government to take his son's case to the International Court of Justice (ICJ) at The Hague, contending the brutal torture of 22-year-old officer constituted a war crime in blatant violation of the Geneva Convention.


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