Then pray tell how will such a competitor develop if you keep feeding everything to HAL?
HAL has already started outsourcing work the next strep would be to set up production lines and R&D houses in partnership with private industry this way slowly they will start developing capabilities which then will reap benefits in future.
Dassault is required under contract to get a certain number of planes manufactured in India, and if they don't they will face penalties.
I am not interested what will be "manufactured" in India seeing the LCA saga has taught me well that all these years we were getting swindled by foreign aerospace giants who took umpteen amounts of $$$ but didn't share a drop of knowledge the lack of which is showing in the LCA. But LCA has been a great learning experience for Indian aerospace industry so days of arm twisting by foreign aerospace companies are numbered.
Not only that, if they choose an incompetent partner who can't get it's act together, that will just delay orders of French gear that go into the plane and might eventually face cancellation altogether.
I am sure cancelling in the middle will help the Indian aerospace industry a lot. You are totally right here.
Even an entirely 'Indian-built' plane will have tons of French content.
Good point, BRFites should read this and ask themselves whether we would really be getting the knowledge of A grade tech with this deal or is it just another glorified screw driver deal ??? Even if we get that knowledge should we allow Dassault to dictate us on who should get it and how ???
Clearly it is in Dassault's interest to make this work as quickly and as efficiently as possible.
Yeah clear as crystal for me whose "interests" Dassault wants to serve.
No competitor at doing what? Bolting together vendor-provided assemblies? Do you seriously doubt that Reliance can bolt together assemblies at least as well as HAL?
Again a very good point just goes on to show that all you wish for Indian aerospace is for them to bolt together assemblies for the rest of there lives. HAL is still doing so because of bad government policies and getting swindled time and again by foreign aerospace giants etc etc. This will only stop when Indian aerospace sector develops the required knowledge base on it's own cause as I said before no country parts away with it's A grade tech and this will exactly be the case with Rafale as well. We will develop these capabilities eventually but certainly India doesn't need Dassault, Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Sukhoi etc. to come and lecture what should be done and what not. All these years they have time and again shown there real intent.
This is precisely the sort of thinking that's going to get you stuck with HAL for another 50 years.
Comprehension problem ??? Take a look in what context I made that statement.
I'm sorry, but the level of 'manufacture' HAL has achieved does not take decades to achieve.
That's because the system never tasked HAL to do that and to top it off the disinterest of IAF in seriously backing an indigenous defence aerospace industry so it's not all HAL's fault but as I said before LCA is a great learning experience the knowledge base it is generating will make sure that in future we don't have to look upto any foreign aerospace company for any kind of help. The foreign aerospace companies also weren't interested in sharing the knowledge required to up the level in manufacture all they supplied was screw driver tech and keep screwing us again and again in the name of ToT.
No, just no. I wouldn't want HAL in any sort of position of authority.
What you want or not matters zilch to the decision makers.
You just talked about how Dassault doesn't want a competitor, which is laughable considering the expertise they have that does indeed take decades to build up.
Exactly and that's why they never shared there knowledge and never will because sharing it would mean creating a competitor which is bad for business. Only after toiling hard for decades India will be able to develop the same or better capabilities, no amount of money is going to bring that "expertise" that you are talking about and that's exactly what Dassault or any other foreign aerospace company doesn't want to see happening in India hence all the lecturing about what India should do or not.
No, the company that is truly afraid of a competitor is HAL!
Maybe you are right but the decision makers have decided that HAL needs one.
HAL has a pretty sweet gig right now and will do everything in their power to preserve it.
Too late things are already moving.
How much more stalled can it get?
As much as the foreign companies want if we dance to their tunes.
If that was their intent, they would happily work with HAL who has proven time and again that they can bolt together foreign planes while learning nothing of value from the experience.
Yeah and doing the same thing with pvt. industry will magically make them competent enough to shoulder the burden of Indian aerospace needs. Great logic
Does India want to continue to reward HAL for their incompetence and expect nothing better?
Is that what India wants?
What India wants India knows very well and as I have said more than once that we don't need foreign aerospace companies to lecture us. They have shown there true colour we know how much sincerity they have towards Indian interests.
Really? What is your plan develop competition 'eventually'?
Read my first reply in this post.
Here's a plan:
- Bring in a respected industry leader (like say Dassault) to teach aviation expertise to a company that has a lot of capability and is hungry to grow some more, but doesn't necessarily have experience in the sector (like say Reliance)
Oh yeah and I am sure Dassult will follow this plan with all honesty