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PostPosted: 11 Nov 2012 09:42 
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Not so good news on Arihant front:

INS Arihant will miss December deadline

Quote:
The INS Arihant, India's first nuclear-powered submarine, will not go for its much-awaited sea trial by December—the deadline set by the Navy.

The 80 Mwe nuclear reactor on-board the submarine is yet to be functional more than three years after the submarine was launched in water. The reactor is yet to produce the energy required to propel the 6000-tonne submarine.

The non-functioning of the Arihant nuclear reactor has more to do with the completion of a large number of other systems and components inside the submarine vessel rather than any problem with the nuclear reactor.
“At the earliest, Arihant can go for sea-trial only in 2013,” sources in the department of atomic energy told Deccan Herald.



Quote:
“Everything was made in India up to the last nuts and bolts. Also the industry was not well developed when we started. We faced a lot of problems on materials,” said a nuclear scientist who was closely associated with reactor development.

But when the submarine was launched in water in July 2009, many systems and components were not in place. Over the last two years, the project management team was putting the instruments in place. The circular design of the submarine’s interior panel made the job more complicated for the team.
“More than 150 systems have to work simultaneously for the submarine to operate,” the sources said.



Quote:
At the moment, the N-submarine has 125 K-15 short range ballistic missiles with a one-tonne nuclear warhead, which can hit the target at a distance of 700 km. Eventually they will be replaced by 3500 km range submarine launched ballistic missiles, which are currently under development.

Construction has also begun for the second nuclear-submarine and its nuclear reactor as numerous systems and components are being readied. But the final assembly for the reactor as well as the vessel is yet to start.


Last edited by sum on 11 Nov 2012 10:35, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 11 Nov 2012 10:29 
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Hmmm....

As long as she starts sea trials bu 2013. It makes no major difference.


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PostPosted: 11 Nov 2012 14:20 
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Quote:
At the moment, the N-submarine has 125 K-15 short range ballistic missiles with a one-tonne nuclear warhead, which can hit the target at a distance of 700 km. Eventually they will be replaced by 3500 km range submarine launched ballistic missiles, which are currently under development.

Construction has also begun for the second nuclear-submarine and its nuclear reactor as numerous systems and components are being readied. But the final assembly for the reactor as well as the vessel is yet to start.


From where did they come up with the no of 125 K-15 in the sub? Duh!!! Lol. :rotfl:


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PostPosted: 11 Nov 2012 14:50 
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Must have mistaken 125 with the planned 12 :)


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PostPosted: 11 Nov 2012 18:20 
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^^ Yup...seems to be a typ intended to be 12. Anyways, was thinking that the reactor has been started by now. Guess secondary source harbour trials are still in progress!

What is the comment about circular interior of the sub making it tougher for the instrumentation? Is it different for SSKs?


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PostPosted: 11 Nov 2012 20:57 
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The inner hull of our other subs could have flatbsides


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PostPosted: 11 Nov 2012 22:17 
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Could it just be a ploy to keep the snoopers off guard by stating delay in trials, while discreetly having them :twisted:


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PostPosted: 11 Nov 2012 22:27 
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Oh! don't worry about the information here ... Nobody knew about Aridaman till the accident at Vizag and then we came to know that at the point of time, the hull of the 3rd submarine was being built!


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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2012 09:43 
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X-post:
RajSingh wrote:


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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2012 10:29 
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>> After its launch from under water, the 10-metre tall K-15 will rise to an altitude of 20 km and cover a distance of 700 km

20km cannot be true. its like 65000ft. even shourya flies at 40km.


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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2012 10:44 
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If it flies at lower altitude (20 km) may be it can only go 700 km. At 40 km the range will increase to 1500 km.


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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2012 11:45 
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Hmm. So, Arihant's reactor is 80MWt, or around 25MWe, so around 22MW shaft hp , approx 28 knots to 30 knots speed.

The K-15 testing is good news. The K4 will be the Dragon Slayer, enabling second strike from stand off distances. Waiting for K4 to get tested so that we have effective deterrence in place.


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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2012 12:55 
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That's almost 30K SHP! Can we estimate Arihant's tonnage (submerged displacement) from that?


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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2012 14:22 
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merlin wrote:
That's almost 30K SHP! Can we estimate Arihant's tonnage (submerged displacement) from that?


INS Arihant will miss December deadline

Quote:
The reactor is yet to produce the energy required to propel the 6000-tonne submarine.


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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2012 14:29 
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Quote:
Hmm. So, Arihant's reactor is 80MWt, or around 25MWe, so around 22MW shaft hp , approx 28 knots to 30 knots speed.

How does this compare to contemporaries around?


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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2012 14:31 
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vina wrote:
Hmm. So, Arihant's reactor is 80MWt, or around 25MWe, so around 22MW shaft hp , approx 28 knots to 30 knots speed.

The K-15 testing is good news. The K4 will be the Dragon Slayer, enabling second strike from stand off distances. Waiting for K4 to get tested so that we have effective deterrence in place.



Our take on the Los Angeles Class.

That settles the size debate for Arihant.

What about the subsequent subs?


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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2012 15:44 
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1. Another factual error is this line
Quote:
hulls are being fabricated at Vadodara

The hulls are fabricated somewhere else...

2. Arun_S was claiming in the other forum, almost one year ago that the Reactor was operational.


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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2012 18:43 
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Gagan wrote:
1. Another factual error is this line
Quote:
hulls are being fabricated at Vadodara

The hulls are fabricated somewhere else...

2. Arun_S was claiming in the other forum, almost one year ago that the Reactor was operational.


Its open source that the hulls are being fabricated on the west coast or at least they were for the first 2-3 hulls.


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PostPosted: 21 Nov 2012 04:24 
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The hulls IIRC were being fabricated by L&T at their shipyard in Hazira not Vadodra.


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PostPosted: 21 Nov 2012 07:20 
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not just hull but reactor vessels and many other commercial projects of that nature involving large vessels.


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PostPosted: 21 Nov 2012 10:36 
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And they have been putting the hulls on a barge and pulling them all across kanyakumari to vizag.

Now L&T has this HUGE shipbuilding yard just north of Chennai. Production of future hulls might shift there.


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PostPosted: 21 Nov 2012 10:43 
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Quote:
Now L&T has this HUGE shipbuilding yard just north of Chennai. Production of future hulls might shift there.

Don't think so. The Navy took over the HSL yard, right next to it's own facilities at Vizag. That has a covered yard about the right size for Nuke subs. I think it will shift there , with components and hull sections etc, still being built by L&T at other locations.


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PostPosted: 21 Nov 2012 10:59 
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HSL I think was supposed to build one Scorpene or the next line of conventional subs.


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PostPosted: 21 Nov 2012 13:08 
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Gagan wrote:
And they have been putting the hulls on a barge and pulling them all across kanyakumari to vizag.

Now L&T has this HUGE shipbuilding yard just north of Chennai. Production of future hulls might shift there.


This facility north of Chennai is very recent. A lot of things have been happening since a very long time at a lot of places

K


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PostPosted: 21 Nov 2012 13:24 
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Vipul wrote:
The hulls IIRC were being fabricated by L&T at their shipyard in Hazira not Vadodra.


Thats right. But the production should move to the east coast now with L&T's new shipyard there.

One thing to note here is the immediate construction of two more submarines. This points to the fact that the Arihant has huge proven Russian inputs. No wonder the cost of the Viki escalated so much ;)


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PostPosted: 21 Nov 2012 16:57 
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Will wrote:

No wonder the cost of the Viki escalated so much ;)

EXACTLY :twisted:


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PostPosted: 23 Nov 2012 10:47 
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L&T's Kattupalli facility, just north of Ennore in Chennai awaits orders for complete warship building orders (including submarines). The debate within the Navy is still going on about outsourcing to Indian firms, I sippose.


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PostPosted: 23 Nov 2012 11:15 
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^^ IIRC, Ajai Shukla had reported sometime back( If i recall correctly) that L&T had big hopes on that yard for getting sub orders( MoD inspected the yard and found it OK also) but they came to know it wont happen and PSU yards will get it.

Need to dig out that article.


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PostPosted: 23 Nov 2012 12:38 
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PSU yards will be "high level sikular system integrators" and "control/punish/manage/guide" the pvt yards to do most of the work while sitting on guaranteed profits and kickbacks from vendors of consumables.

thats the best I can hope for - big modules outsourced to pvt yards.


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PostPosted: 06 Dec 2012 10:57 
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Sea trials for nuke submarine INS Arihant set to begin soon


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PostPosted: 06 Dec 2012 16:00 
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Quote:
The reactor's performance will be tested in various stages, including firing of weapons and operations in the depth of the ocean. If everything remained in place, the submarine is expected to be ready for induction by 2014.



Read more at: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/sea- ... 36252.html

I think it suggest that K-15 test in coming months will happen through INS-Arihant...


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PostPosted: 10 Dec 2012 14:35 
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20659823
HMS Astute recovers from shaky start

Quote:
t's the first Royal Navy submarine that can hover underwater. The hover adds to its stealth.


Quote:
...no longer has a traditional periscope to peer above the water

...Instead Astute has cameras fitted on a mast that feed live pictures into the control room. In daylight it provides colour images that can zoom into a target. At night they use a thermal imaging camera.

Unlike the old periscope that would pop out of the water for minutes at a time, Astute's mast breaks cover for just a few seconds. It can record what it sees giving the crew time to analyse the images. It's another feature that makes the submarine harder to detect.


Quote:
It's taken a decade to build HMS Astute. Five years after she was launched and more than two years after she was commissioned and she's still undergoing sea trials. The programme is way over budget and late.


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PostPosted: 10 Dec 2012 17:56 
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^^I hope the retards remember this the next time they bellyache about delays in the ATV program.


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PostPosted: 18 Dec 2012 18:33 
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K15 to be test fired from the INS arihant next month. :)

Scientific Advisor to Defence Minister and DRDOChief V K Saraswat said this time the test of K-15 would be from the pontoon which has been positioned at a location off the Andhra Pradesh coast. “But the test planned next year will be definitely from Arihant-class submarine.The platform is being readied at the shipyard for the maiden trial,” he told this paper over phone.

Initially announced to be ready for induction by year-end, the submarine is now expected to be inducted in the Navy by 2014 because it has to complete at least two or three trials before deployment. India has plans to build four more submarines of this class. “The new generation nuke powered submarines will help India become a credible nuclear deterrent. Once inducted, the country will achieve its goal of possessing the nuclear triad of having three nuclear arms platforms – land, air and undersea,” said a scientist.
May someone post the link from idrw.


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PostPosted: 19 Dec 2012 03:43 
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http://newindianexpress.com/states/odis ... 384357.ece

INS Arihant is about 120 metres long and its displacement goes up to 7,000 tonnes. It can be armed with 12 vertically launched missiles like K-15 and 533-mm torpedos at a time. The indigenously developed K-15 missile is about 10 metres in length and about one metre in diameter. Its launch weight is about 10 tonnes.


When did Arihant become 120 m long and 7000 tonnes in displacement. It was supposedly 112 m and 6000 tonne.


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PostPosted: 19 Dec 2012 12:14 
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Maybe submerged and surfaced displacement. But who knows the actual figures...


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PostPosted: 19 Dec 2012 12:26 
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120m and 7000t is just 10m and 500t short of the retired french Le redoubtable class and UK resolution class.
these carried 16 and 12 ICBMs respectively. these were subs built in the late 60s onward.

for that size the claimed 4 tubes only would be hard to believe.

imo a loadout of atleast 8-12 full caliber K4 missiles would be minimum needed to justify the price and efforts. if not in Arihant then atleast her sister ships.


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PostPosted: 19 Dec 2012 12:54 
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Well this 12 -k-15 and 4 -K-4 is psdy -ops. can you you put BM side by side in a Hatch like CM's. I doubt it.

If we say it will have 12 k-4 in 3 years time, the powers in the world will be a bit too prepared before we are ready. so lets keep these things under wraps.


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PostPosted: 19 Dec 2012 12:55 
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Aditya_V wrote:
Well this 12 -k-15 and 4 -K-4 is psdy -ops. can you you put BM side by side in a Hatch like CM's. I doubt it.

A rotating launcher maybe?


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PostPosted: 19 Dec 2012 13:44 
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the magazine illustration had 3 smaller sub-caliber tubes inside the big tube.
this is how they pack 4xESSM inside a 1xSM2 tube as well - albeit there its all rectangular cross section I think.


http://www.baesystems.com/cs/groups/pub ... 48x421.jpg
http://navy-matters.beedall.com/images/vls.jpg


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