INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

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Gagan
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Post by Gagan »

1. Another factual error is this line
hulls are being fabricated at Vadodara
The hulls are fabricated somewhere else...

2. Arun_S was claiming in the other forum, almost one year ago that the Reactor was operational.
Will
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Post by Will »

Gagan wrote:1. Another factual error is this line
hulls are being fabricated at Vadodara
The hulls are fabricated somewhere else...

2. Arun_S was claiming in the other forum, almost one year ago that the Reactor was operational.
Its open source that the hulls are being fabricated on the west coast or at least they were for the first 2-3 hulls.
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Post by Vipul »

The hulls IIRC were being fabricated by L&T at their shipyard in Hazira not Vadodra.
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Post by Singha »

not just hull but reactor vessels and many other commercial projects of that nature involving large vessels.
Gagan
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Post by Gagan »

And they have been putting the hulls on a barge and pulling them all across kanyakumari to vizag.

Now L&T has this HUGE shipbuilding yard just north of Chennai. Production of future hulls might shift there.
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Post by vina »

Now L&T has this HUGE shipbuilding yard just north of Chennai. Production of future hulls might shift there.
Don't think so. The Navy took over the HSL yard, right next to it's own facilities at Vizag. That has a covered yard about the right size for Nuke subs. I think it will shift there , with components and hull sections etc, still being built by L&T at other locations.
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Post by Gagan »

HSL I think was supposed to build one Scorpene or the next line of conventional subs.
Kersi D
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Post by Kersi D »

Gagan wrote:And they have been putting the hulls on a barge and pulling them all across kanyakumari to vizag.

Now L&T has this HUGE shipbuilding yard just north of Chennai. Production of future hulls might shift there.
This facility north of Chennai is very recent. A lot of things have been happening since a very long time at a lot of places

K
Will
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Post by Will »

Vipul wrote:The hulls IIRC were being fabricated by L&T at their shipyard in Hazira not Vadodra.
Thats right. But the production should move to the east coast now with L&T's new shipyard there.

One thing to note here is the immediate construction of two more submarines. This points to the fact that the Arihant has huge proven Russian inputs. No wonder the cost of the Viki escalated so much ;)
sarabpal.s
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Post by sarabpal.s »

Will wrote:
No wonder the cost of the Viki escalated so much ;)
EXACTLY :twisted:
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Post by SSridhar »

L&T's Kattupalli facility, just north of Ennore in Chennai awaits orders for complete warship building orders (including submarines). The debate within the Navy is still going on about outsourcing to Indian firms, I sippose.
sum
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Post by sum »

^^ IIRC, Ajai Shukla had reported sometime back( If i recall correctly) that L&T had big hopes on that yard for getting sub orders( MoD inspected the yard and found it OK also) but they came to know it wont happen and PSU yards will get it.

Need to dig out that article.
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Post by Singha »

PSU yards will be "high level sikular system integrators" and "control/punish/manage/guide" the pvt yards to do most of the work while sitting on guaranteed profits and kickbacks from vendors of consumables.

thats the best I can hope for - big modules outsourced to pvt yards.
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Post by nash »

The reactor's performance will be tested in various stages, including firing of weapons and operations in the depth of the ocean. If everything remained in place, the submarine is expected to be ready for induction by 2014.

Read more at: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/sea- ... 36252.html

I think it suggest that K-15 test in coming months will happen through INS-Arihant...
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Post by JTull »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20659823
HMS Astute recovers from shaky start
t's the first Royal Navy submarine that can hover underwater. The hover adds to its stealth.
...no longer has a traditional periscope to peer above the water

...Instead Astute has cameras fitted on a mast that feed live pictures into the control room. In daylight it provides colour images that can zoom into a target. At night they use a thermal imaging camera.

Unlike the old periscope that would pop out of the water for minutes at a time, Astute's mast breaks cover for just a few seconds. It can record what it sees giving the crew time to analyse the images. It's another feature that makes the submarine harder to detect.
It's taken a decade to build HMS Astute. Five years after she was launched and more than two years after she was commissioned and she's still undergoing sea trials. The programme is way over budget and late.
member_22539
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Post by member_22539 »

^^I hope the retards remember this the next time they bellyache about delays in the ATV program.
keshavchandra
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Post by keshavchandra »

K15 to be test fired from the INS arihant next month. :)

Scientific Advisor to Defence Minister and DRDOChief V K Saraswat said this time the test of K-15 would be from the pontoon which has been positioned at a location off the Andhra Pradesh coast. “But the test planned next year will be definitely from Arihant-class submarine.The platform is being readied at the shipyard for the maiden trial,” he told this paper over phone.

Initially announced to be ready for induction by year-end, the submarine is now expected to be inducted in the Navy by 2014 because it has to complete at least two or three trials before deployment. India has plans to build four more submarines of this class. “The new generation nuke powered submarines will help India become a credible nuclear deterrent. Once inducted, the country will achieve its goal of possessing the nuclear triad of having three nuclear arms platforms – land, air and undersea,” said a scientist.
May someone post the link from idrw.
member_23370
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Post by member_23370 »

http://newindianexpress.com/states/odis ... 384357.ece

INS Arihant is about 120 metres long and its displacement goes up to 7,000 tonnes. It can be armed with 12 vertically launched missiles like K-15 and 533-mm torpedos at a time. The indigenously developed K-15 missile is about 10 metres in length and about one metre in diameter. Its launch weight is about 10 tonnes.


When did Arihant become 120 m long and 7000 tonnes in displacement. It was supposedly 112 m and 6000 tonne.
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Post by merlin »

Maybe submerged and surfaced displacement. But who knows the actual figures...
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Post by Singha »

120m and 7000t is just 10m and 500t short of the retired french Le redoubtable class and UK resolution class.
these carried 16 and 12 ICBMs respectively. these were subs built in the late 60s onward.

for that size the claimed 4 tubes only would be hard to believe.

imo a loadout of atleast 8-12 full caliber K4 missiles would be minimum needed to justify the price and efforts. if not in Arihant then atleast her sister ships.
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Post by Aditya_V »

Well this 12 -k-15 and 4 -K-4 is psdy -ops. can you you put BM side by side in a Hatch like CM's. I doubt it.

If we say it will have 12 k-4 in 3 years time, the powers in the world will be a bit too prepared before we are ready. so lets keep these things under wraps.
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Post by nachiket »

Aditya_V wrote:Well this 12 -k-15 and 4 -K-4 is psdy -ops. can you you put BM side by side in a Hatch like CM's. I doubt it.
A rotating launcher maybe?
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Post by Singha »

the magazine illustration had 3 smaller sub-caliber tubes inside the big tube.
this is how they pack 4xESSM inside a 1xSM2 tube as well - albeit there its all rectangular cross section I think.


http://www.baesystems.com/cs/groups/pub ... 48x421.jpg
http://navy-matters.beedall.com/images/vls.jpg
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Post by prashanth »

Aditya_V wrote:Well this 12 -k-15 and 4 -K-4 is psdy -ops. can you you put BM side by side in a Hatch like CM's. I doubt it.
Yes. Even I am sceptical about this 12-4 theory. Further, I doubt if the range of K-15 is mere 750KM. Doesn't pack lot of punch for an SLBM.
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Post by Singha »

well K15 is said to less than 10m long, 1m diameter....about the size of Agni1 whose range with a 1ton payload is 900km.
due to the need for a gas generator to eject the missile, it will be shorter than Agni1, which makes the 750km range with a 1tonish payload look reasonable imo.
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Post by prashanth »

Singha ji,
True. But what is the strategic value of such an SLBM? You have to go very close to the enemy coast to launch it.
This leaves me wondering if the K15 is a smokescreen to cover something else.
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Post by Boreas »

prashanth wrote:Singha ji,
True. But what is the strategic value of such an SLBM? You have to go very close to the enemy coast to launch it.
This leaves me wondering if the K15 is a smokescreen to cover something else.
750Km is good enough for our friends up the arabian sea.

panda is always second in our priority list. atleast untill very recently it was.
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Post by merlin »

I thought Arihant and her sisters S3 and S4 are interim SSBNs. Once the larger follow on class are ready, Arihant and her sisters would likely revert to SSGN role with 12 VLS cruise missiles (Nirbhay perhaps).
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Post by prashanth »

Boreas wrote:
prashanth wrote:Singha ji,
750Km is good enough for our friends up the arabian sea.

panda is always second in our priority list. atleast untill very recently it was.
Possible. Another possibility is that the K15 will be the naval equivalent of prithvi. Comes cheap for practice sessions to train submariners.
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Post by vic »

K15 has range of 750 km with 1 ton warhead, with 250 kg, range may be around 2500km
Singha
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Post by Singha »

merlin wrote:I thought Arihant and her sisters S3 and S4 are interim SSBNs. Once the larger follow on class are ready, Arihant and her sisters would likely revert to SSGN role with 12 VLS cruise missiles (Nirbhay perhaps).
Yes i would image with around 30 weapons in torpedo room and 12 vl nirbhay, she would be equivalent of the 688i or akula in terms of strike power and a lot bigger than the raggedy ass mini ssn like trafalgar and rubis.

Big ocean need big sticks.

But we need to get 2 bigger boats in service first, or make sure the next boats are somewhat bigger.
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Post by ShauryaT »

Boreas wrote: 750Km is good enough for our friends up the arabian sea.

panda is always second in our priority list. atleast untill very recently it was.
SLBM is reserved for nuclear delivery role only. Why is 750 KM range an issue for targeting Panda from the oceans? Are we saying that the Panda detection net is strong? They severely lack capable ASW corvettes, capable fixed wing and rotary assets for the job. They still depend on old style mines and some sonar capability. Lack of ASW assets is known to be the achilles heel of PLAN. They also lack willing poodles in the region except by way of N. Korea willing to cooperate in this matter like India does with Singapore, vietnam. What we ought to invest in is making something like the Nirbhay to be launched as an SLCM.
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Post by ramana »

ShauryaT, To be able to launch a 750km weapon the sub has to come quite close to shore in South China Sea which is practically a closed sea. This makes the sub detection not very hard. You are forgetting a big player deployed in the area who might be interested in stability!

So I dont think Arihant is right now configured for the PRC deterrent role.

I think K15 was to provide a 'quick' sea leg to the triad.
K4 is more like it with deployment in South Indian Ocean.

viv, Where are you getting 250 kg from!

For all intents and purposes Indian missile based payload in 1000kg. Since IGMP was launched in 1984.
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Post by Sagar G »

prashanth wrote:Singha ji,
True. But what is the strategic value of such an SLBM? You have to go very close to the enemy coast to launch it.
This leaves me wondering if the K15 is a smokescreen to cover something else.
ramana wrote:I think K15 was to provide a 'quick' sea leg to the triad.
K4 is more like it with deployment in South Indian Ocean.
You need to first learn to walk before you can run, K15 is our walking phase the next SLBMs will come when we gain the capability to run. K15 is our Prithvi of SLBM class missiles.
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Post by vasu raya »

K-15 has been waiting for Arihant for a while now I guess. Until its operational trials from Arihant are done, the K-4 design itself will not be frozen. So, if they stick to the testing schedule for K-15 in 2013, we can expect K-4 launches in 2014 from Arihant.
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Post by ramana »

One of the new thinking in naval architects is the three small diameter vehicles in one tube which can alo carry one larger dia vehicle. The whole setup is like a launch module. This way it gives flexibility for the force commanders.
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Post by ShauryaT »

ramana wrote:ShauryaT, To be able to launch a 750km weapon the sub has to come quite close to shore in South China Sea which is practically a closed sea. This makes the sub detection not very hard. You are forgetting a big player deployed in the area who might be interested in stability!

So I dont think Arihant is right now configured for the PRC deterrent role.
You fight with what you have. IAF justifies an air launched deterrent capability against PRC, arguing a one way ditch effort using the Su-30's. The other geo-political players can assist, look the other way or gain India's enmity. The K15 is not perfect or adequate but I think push comes to shove the asset shall be used. My view is we do not need any SLBM capability with nuclear payloads for the Pakistanis next door. We did be fools not to follow up on Cam Ranh Bay. Also, is there a reason for K15 to not be on the diesel/AIP equipped subs? Somehow all talk of it is limited to Arihant only.

What we need is more Brahmos and Nirbhay as SLCM's with conventional payloads for PRC. They have to know that India does have a conventional capability to strike their east coast.
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Post by ramana »

Adding tubes to diesel subs will take another fifteen years besides India doesn't build them yet to make own modifications.
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Re: INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Post by Philip »

It is clear that the K-15 has a longer range than advertised.Possibly a range to reach any Chinese target from the safety of Indian waters.This would be an interim missile until the larger single-silo missile,whatever its designation and LR cruise missiles which can be fired from the larger diameter tubes arrive.Once the ATV design has been certified as sound,larger subs with more silos will appear.This will probably only happen by 2020.What is missing in our deterrent is a long-range bomber to complement the three legs of the triad.China is allegedly trying to acquire the rights to acquire/build Backfires from Russia in large number.
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