PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
Post Reply
VishalJ
BRFite
Posts: 1034
Joined: 12 Feb 2009 06:40
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by VishalJ »

From a page on StupidBook called Indian Air Force | Garud Commando Force (don't know if its authentic or run by enthusiasts):
Hiten
BRFite
Posts: 1130
Joined: 21 Sep 2008 07:57
Location: Baudland
Contact:

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by Hiten »

Fourth T-50 Stealth Fighter Flies
MOSCOW, December 12 (RIA Novosti) - Russia's fourth prototype Sukhoi T-50 stealth fighter jet took to the skies for the first time on Wednesday in a 40 minute flight at the Komsomolsk-on-Amur factory in Siberia, Sukhoi said.

"The fourth prototype PAK-FA made its first flight today from the Gagarin factory in Komsomolsk-on-Amur," Sukhoi said, referring to the aircraft by its project name, an acronym for future fifth-generation tactical fighter.

"The flight tested the aircraft's overall integrity and its main engines. The aircraft is making a good impression in all phases of the flying program," Sukhoi said.

The T-50, which will be the core of Russia's future fighter fleet, is a fifth-generation multirole fighter aircraft featuring low-observable technology (stealth), super-maneuverability, supercruise capability (supersonic flight without use of afterburner), and an advanced avionics suite including an X-band active phased-array radar.

The first prototype first flew on January 29, 2010.

The Russian Defense Ministry plans to purchase a first batch of 10 evaluation aircraft and then 60 production-standard aircraft after 2015.

Meanwhile, the Novosibirsk aircraft factory (NAPO) plans to deliver ten more Sukoi Su-34 strike aircraft to the Russian Air Force in the near future, the Air Force's Col. Andrei Bobrun said.

"The Novosibirsk factory will send another ten aircraft to the Voronezh air base in the near future," he said.
http://en.rian.ru/military_news/20121212/178100717.html
SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36424
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by SaiK »

"ctrl +" or zoom on the http://i.imgur.com/GcFFh.jpg, now on the folded LERX wings you see rectangular marks - are these the L band aesa?
Last edited by SaiK on 13 Dec 2012 23:30, edited 1 time in total.
nits
BRFite
Posts: 1156
Joined: 01 May 2006 22:56
Location: Some where near Equator...

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by nits »

*** Self Deleted duplicate entry ***
Last edited by nits on 14 Dec 2012 11:52, edited 1 time in total.
Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8428
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by Indranil »

^^^ Please check the 5 comments back.
SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36424
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by SaiK »

last month article dated, but then it is a carlo kopp gyan... nevertheless, the Indian FGFA could take these as inputs for modifications and constructive criticisms.
Evaluating the PAKFA


The PAKFA will be very stealthy in most radar bands, from the S down to the L band, although not stealthy against UHF radars such as the E-2 Hawkeye’s APS-145 and the E-2D Advanced Hawkeye’s APY-9 or the UHF-ground based radars used by some Chinese air defense systems.

E-2 aircraft of all variants will have no problem detecting the PAKFA. The problem is that the PAKFA (or other Russian fighters) will likely use Novator “AWACS-killer” A2A missiles to kill the Hawkeye and thus strip the opponent of the ability to detect the PAKFA.

Generally stealthy otherwise, with two exceptions:

1) The PAKFA’s conventional engine nozzles are not stealthy and would thus produce a large radar wave return. This is a problem the PAKFA shares with the F-35, but it can be solved by producing slit engine nozzles, as Lockheed Martin did for the F-22.

2) The PAKFA’s beam fuselage component is deeply sculpted and therefore not stealthy.

other weaknesses:-

PAKFA, like the F-35, can carry only 4 A2A missiles internally,..By virtue of carrying twice as many missiles as the PAKFA, the F-22 stands a twice higher chance of killing the Russian fighter than of being shot down by it.

Irbis-E radar with which the PAKFA will likely be equipped is inferior to the F-22′s APG-77 radar.

PAKFA has a WORSE thrust/weight ratio and a WORSE wing loading ratio than the F-22. At 50% fuel plus a full internal missile load, the PAKFA has a T/W ratio of 1.19:1 and a wing loading ratio of between 330-470 kg/sq m, more likely closer to the higher than to the lower figure, while the F-22 has a T/W ratio of 1.26:1 and a wing loading ratio of 375 kg/sq m.
the rest of the story is a fine read however..
Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23387
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by Austin »

Hiten
BRFite
Posts: 1130
Joined: 21 Sep 2008 07:57
Location: Baudland
Contact:

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by Hiten »

Austin wrote:Hi Res pictures of T-50-4 released

http://www.knaapo.ru/rus/gallery/events ... t-50-4.wbp
when you see the name 'Austin' in the forum activity, you can be pretty sure he has come bearing gifts. :D
Awesome
member_24146
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 30
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by member_24146 »

PAK-FA in black color, digital art. :) I draw this using Paint.NET and TwistedBrush Pro Studio v17.00.

Image

Seems img bbcode not working. anyway below is the link for the picture.
[link]http://lh5.ggpht.com/-qUW5JKaqMXY/TsidO ... -20114.jpg[/link]
member_24146
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 30
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by member_24146 »

vipulmb wrote:PAK-FA in black color, digital art. :) I draw this using Paint.NET and TwistedBrush Pro Studio v17.00.

Image

Seems img bbcode not working. anyway below is the link for the picture.
[link]http://lh5.ggpht.com/-qUW5JKaqMXY/TsidO ... -20114.jpg[/link]
Can any mod plz correct the links above plz?
Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by Singha »

Only 4 a2a missiles internally does not sound right. It has two tandem bays. Should be able to pack in eight meaty aams.
That was the whole idea of having the engines wide apart rather than tightly pressed together f22 style.
SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36424
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by SaiK »

any more inputs as to max range of these 4 internal weapon bay can hold? [meaning types of missiles]
Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23387
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by Austin »

Thanks Hiten but credit should go to Sukhoi for getting us beautiful hi res.

Guys Stop worrying about the number of missiles PAK-FA can hold unless we hear it from Sukhoi , its merely a rumour started by some one on the numbers of missile internal bay can hold ....just wild speculation as good as any one can guess.

Meanwhile some nice high res

http://russianplanes.net/images/to94000/093683.jpg
http://russianplanes.net/images/to94000/093740.jpg
SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36424
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by SaiK »

brilliant! it appears like a single engined monster!
krishnan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7342
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 12:58
Location: 13° 04' N , 80° 17' E

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by krishnan »

What is that thing in the background in the second picture
Arunkumar
BRFite
Posts: 643
Joined: 05 Apr 2008 17:29

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by Arunkumar »

^^^Seems to have AEROFLOT markings, but wingtips are equipped with jammers??
tushar_m

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by tushar_m »

krishnan wrote:What is that thing in the background in the second picture

looks like Beriev_A-50

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beriev_A-50

Image
krishnan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7342
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 12:58
Location: 13° 04' N , 80° 17' E

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by krishnan »

thing is its so unclear that i dont even known whether its the front or rear part :lol:
hnair
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4635
Joined: 03 May 2006 01:31
Location: Trivandrum

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by hnair »

There is a wingtip pod like structure on that biggish plane in the background.
sarabpal.s
BRFite
Posts: 348
Joined: 13 Sep 2008 22:04

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by sarabpal.s »

From Yefim gordon's book
'Aircraft 976' is superficially similar to the A-50
AWACS, featuring an identical rotodome which,
incidentally, has earned it the nickname
Pogahnka (Toadstool) at L11. Like the A-50, it has
satellite communications and data link antennas
in a large dielectric fairing ahead of the wings
SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36424
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by SaiK »

now that question makes me think about advanced photoshop gone messed up. good question
sarabpal.s
BRFite
Posts: 348
Joined: 13 Sep 2008 22:04

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by sarabpal.s »

SaiK wrote:now that question makes me think about advanced photoshop gone messed up. good question
:?: in which reference
krishnan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7342
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 12:58
Location: 13° 04' N , 80° 17' E

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by krishnan »

that sure looks like some AWACS type, but front part doesnt make any sense, maybe some illusion
SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36424
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by SaiK »

well.. it was fabulous photograph.. the heat wave smudged many things and at the same time the snow on top of the beriev appeared like a mess along with other smudge.

nice.
sarabpal.s
BRFite
Posts: 348
Joined: 13 Sep 2008 22:04

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by sarabpal.s »

it is really Aeroflot. will post full pics
NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19226
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by NRao »

Here is a IL-76 PP:

Image
Without the rotordome. IL-76 PP

Image
With Rotordome. This is a command and control aircraft, not just an AWACS. IL-76 SK
sarabpal.s
BRFite
Posts: 348
Joined: 13 Sep 2008 22:04

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by sarabpal.s »

Image
Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23387
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by Austin »

Russia’s 5th Generation Fighter Jet to Start State Tests in March
MOSCOW REGION, December 23 (RIA Novosti) - Russia's fifth-generation stealth jet fighter, the T-50, will start state flight tests in March 2013, Russia’s Air Force Commander, Lt. Gen. Viktor Bondarev said on Sunday.

Currently three fighter jets are performing test flights at the Zhukovsky airfield outside Moscow, the fourth plane is undergoing factory test trials and the fifth plane is in the process of factory approvals, the commander said.

All these planes will fly to Akhtubinsk in the Astrakhan Region in March next year where “state tests will begin,” he said.
There will be a total of eight planes involved in state trials in Akhtubinsk throughout 2013, the commander said.
“We’ll complete them [the tests] within 2-2.5 years and somewhere in 2015-early 2016 these planes are expected to go into serial production and we’ll start receiving them and supplying our combat units with them,” the commander said.
SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36424
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by SaiK »

India and Russia will also ink the final design contract for the joint development of a futuristic stealth fifth-generation fighter at a later stage since it is still being drafted. This R&D contract is pegged at $11 billion, with the two countries supposed to chip in with $5.5 billion each. Each 5th Gen fighter - IAF hopes to induct around 200 of them from 2022 onwards - will cost at least $100 million extra. Consequently, as first reported by TOI earlier, India will eventually spend around $35 billion on this gigantic project.
too much money details with too little about what India's design plan is. Any project charter at minister levels must include synopsis of all the super dooper areas of interests as vision plan.
NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19226
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by NRao »

The last I read India was to build the FGFA in India (with Russia building the PAK-FA in Russia).

The question I have is do we have any idea of what percent of parts may/could be supplied from Russia for the FGFA?
SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36424
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by SaiK »

We have no idea what is India's participation yet.. can someone list them out - which parts, components, LRU etc?
Shrinivasan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2196
Joined: 20 Aug 2009 19:20
Location: Gateway Arch
Contact:

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by Shrinivasan »

SaiK wrote:We have no idea what is India's participation yet.. can someone list them out - which parts, components, LRU etc?
I don't this we are there yet... we are still in the design phase of the FGFA project. only at the end of this design phase, the work delineation would happen.
member_23364
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 39
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by member_23364 »

So, taking stock of the PAK FA programme today, we have 4 PAK FA prototypes in the air, and the aircraft is very near to the final configuration for the Russians.

Given the fact that the changes between the PAK FA & the FGFA are mostly electronic {see link below for a detailed analysis of the differences } and my personal take from this is that this would be more akin to the SU-30 MKI customization {albeit more significant changes}

http://www.defenceaviation.com/2008/10/ ... ghter.html

Note that the design for PAK FA has been frozen by the Russians {which means no design inputs from HAL}, I have only one question.


WHAT THE HECK ARE WE SPENDING $10 BILLION {55,OOO CRORE} ON?
Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by Singha »

Once the two seater was dropped , out went any chance of tinkering with the airframe . The other core parts are russian like radar, aam, engine.

I guess it might just be project funding it to completion there!
tushar_m

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by tushar_m »

10 billion $$$ that we are spending on is the tech of radar ,stealth & engine which would take another 10-15 years for us to develop . Then also there is a possibility that the project might not be a success.

Rather than going on discussing about the PAK-FA & the FGFA we should think it as the single resource point from where all the technology for our own homegrown,INDIA da puttar AMCA will be born.

The Kid(AMCA) will be born with best AESA, Best of Engine Tech, Best Electronics (combining all the west ,easy,north),Best Missiles & in all the best of the best that world have available now & in future.

just think about the goody good tech. available in the world,just close your eyes & think seriously.

now open your eyes & there it is our own AMCA. :eek: :eek: :eek:

P.S what can we call this big brother of tejas ????
member_20292
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2059
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by member_20292 »

^^

Itna main jaanta hoon ki MOD HAL DRDO ke log ch***tiye nahin hain.

Tho agar 10 billion $ kharch ho raha hai, kuch kaaran se kharch ho raha hoga. Vyarth nahin jayega vah paisa.
SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36424
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by SaiK »

I would put that money into AMCA.. (if the technology is only an MKI-ization).. unless we know more truth, we have to put some salt always from Russia with Love!.. read recent 10K crore cuts in defence spending.

But then investing in PAK-FA, could be as enabling as LCA was for MKI. If that history repeats, we should have parallel AMCA-FGFA schedules, where both the platforms enables each other. Now, I wish this is the last fighter aircraft participation, and all future ones(if any) is pure indigenous. Perhaps, our kids read this post about such a wish.

It would be at the very least another 5-10 years to establish AMCA.
pragnya
BRFite
Posts: 728
Joined: 20 Feb 2011 18:41

Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Post by pragnya »

Singha wrote:Once the two seater was dropped , out went any chance of tinkering with the airframe . The other core parts are russian like radar, aam, engine.

I guess it might just be project funding it to completion there!
i have always wondered what design capabilities HAL would have brought to the table wrt FGFA (just a 2 seater version of the aircraft which is already flying!!) apart from integrating some indian/western avionics??

it seems by dropping (unsure) the 2 seater version, the IAF and the HAL may have avoided the 'delays' that would have naturally accrued in its completion.

besides, they may want IPR on the single seater so that India would have a VETO on PAKFA sale options to other countries. :wink:
Post Reply