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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2012 22:27 
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LOL Chinese technology scares the crap out of the poor users like PAF and PN more than any adversary.


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2012 22:28 
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vasu raya wrote:
watch the edge of the runway on the first pic, the rope pulling it back will not extend that far, if the plane has traveled that far while landing, it will be a go around usually


ashi wrote:
J-15 first takeoff and landing drill on aircraft carrier LiaoNing.

Starts at 1:20


This video probably clarifies why we have not chosen Su-33 for our carrier Gorky(And there is a write-up from ex-CNS Arun Prakash on this). Even for this big carrier, margin of error is not much.


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2012 22:28 
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wong wrote:
And yes, China gives the very, very best stuff to Pakistan instead of just enough. Just enough for what you ask??? Figure it out!

You mean like the locomotives you sold them? If thats your best :rotfl:

Never mind. Dont want you to get your dragon less vigorous.


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2012 22:30 
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True and now after using chinese locomotives , pakis are desperate to beg or lease from India :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bny8p6nALhE


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2012 22:38 
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Kanson wrote:

This video probably clarifies why we have not chosen Su-33 for our carrier Gorky(And there is a write-up from ex-CNS Arun Prakash on this). Even for this big carrier, margin of error is not much.


Kanson maybe I need a kick up my backside to wake me up. But as I see it - a bigger fighter consumes more fuel to stay in the air. And at the time of hostilities they will be required to spend more time in the air. That will mean good back up support because the amount of fuel carried (in the ship) is limited. Hit the support ships and flights are reduced. To protect the support vessels far away from home, you need a huge flotilla as well as submarines for protection from underneath. That means a carrier task force. A single carrier by itself means little - even if we are scared of China. We need to see how they will create a self protecting self sustaining carrier force far away from the brown waters off China. They will no doubt want to do that and we have to wait and see. Kicking ourselves in the butt is no substitute for watching and learning what the Chinese are up to.

We can plan only by knowing what they are doing, not by simply worrying and telling other Indians to wake up, which is about as far as we get in terms of military strategy on this forum.


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2012 22:45 
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I am a skeptic of the political party which ran the GOI for most of the last 60 years. But I will vent the anger in that other thread about this. If we consider all these hardware the Chinese are building these will be of little use as China it self is not a unified country as it seems from the outside. 20% of their population are muslims and at war with Hans. Tibet is another division. Quality of life has improved only in coastal areas and a vast population - 300m - are frustratingly poor. China is surrounded by power economies ( and militaries also ) like Russia, India, Japan, SKorea, Vietnam, Taiwan etc and US has just started a "Look Asia" policy where most of its fleet will be in Asia to contain China. Japan+US+India has already formed a block. Only friends China has are basically failed states. China is where NAZI Germany was in 1940s or may be eve in a more precarious positions. China is desparate. Desparate to show to its local population and to the world that it is a great power equal only to the US. But the truth is far from it and will remain so in the future. So no worry and have curry. The Chinese are already setup for a failure.


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2012 22:51 
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Bheeshma wrote:
True and now after using chinese locomotives , pakis are desperate to beg or lease from India :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bny8p6nALhE


And yet you guys want Chinese trains. See the flaws in your circular logic or over your head ??

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... 62895.aspx


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2012 22:51 
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^^^

And after the plan, Shivji, we DO. How do we do it? Simple. If we are working on technology somewhere around the world, we work to advance it further. If we work at MSoft...we work on advancing ourselves, personally, as Indian individuals , as far as we can at MSoft.

I don't believe we can go further than the CN defence forces, and CN people in general on a per capita basis, by making a hue and cry about how good or bad the CN are doing. "Hindustan khatre main hain" is not a long lasting call.

A long lasting, sustainable credo, is to use the forces of capitalism and to look at our own self interest, to promote them and ensure that we are doing more to promote OUR self interest than our neighbour (CN) is doing to promote HIS.

And this is a thread for CN military, so my last OT post on this.

Indian people. "Uthisthaha.
Jagrataha. Praptha bodhi, varanathaha. "


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2012 22:56 
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LOL :rotfl: Agreement mean nothing. Chinese make crappy bikes were being sold for 10,000 rs in India but people ran after seeing their quality. This will go nowehere. Rest assured.
"
It could result in India having high speed Chinese trains and Indian information technology experts working in China"... :rotfl:


China IR already operate engines far superior to chinese can build. China is offering the license made german high speed rails and once IR tests them for quality they will go with the original german make.

wong wrote:
Bheeshma wrote:
True and now after using chinese locomotives , pakis are desperate to beg or lease from India :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bny8p6nALhE


And yet you guys want Chinese trains. See the flaws in your circular logic or over your head ??

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... 62895.aspx


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2012 22:56 
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wong wrote:
And yet you guys want Chinese trains. See the flaws in your circular logic or over your head ??

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... 62895.aspx


You're wrong Wong. We want Chinese trains so that we will learn a lesson when they break down as they do in Pakistan. We need the Chinese to teach us lessons. Like 1962. We must learn to fear Chinese trains.


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2012 22:58 
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I find this thread interesting, but , really moving on all possible tangents to the CN military news. Other threads, such as OIT thread, West Asia thread, are far more focused.

Another unfocused thread, highly rhetoric filled is the TSP thread.

Back to the topic;
===========================

Good news that CN has carrier borne launches and landings of fighters. Good for them.

I am ignorant as to how good we are as compared to the CN....how far can we send our CBGs, for example? Can we send our carrier to the South China Sea and do a blockade, of say, Hong Kong? What do we need to reach that goal? Is that a worthy goal, or , is it better to first reach the goal of killing off Chinese energy supplies through the Lakshwadeep, Mauritius, Andaman and Nicobar Island island chains?


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2012 22:58 
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How many high speed accidents in China already??


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2012 23:00 
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shiv wrote:
wong wrote:
And yet you guys want Chinese trains. See the flaws in your circular logic or over your head ??

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... 62895.aspx


You're wrong Wong. We want Chinese trains so that we will learn a lesson when they break down as they do in Pakistan. We need the Chinese to teach us lessons. Like 1962. We must learn to fear Chinese trains.


Grow up! What are you 12yo?? I didn't write it. It's your Hindu Times.


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2012 23:01 
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More on topic questions;

1. How do our Mig 29 Ks compare to their Su 33s? My knowledge says that they have lower range, persistence, radar signatures as compared to the Sus.

Does anyone know how a Mig 29 (in general, not K) will do against a Su 30 , in combat?

2. What is the chief goal of our Sea Harriers? Is it ground attack, air to air, or multi role? How does it, compare to a Su 33 that the CN has?


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2012 23:02 
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Moderators...can we have a thread just to sling shite on our chinese friends across the border please? If that thread is named "preparing for defeat by the dragon" it is ill named. ..


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2012 23:14 
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wong wrote:
Grow up! What are you 12yo?? I didn't write it. It's your Hindu Times.

I must be 12 because you seem to enjoy interaction only with people you can dominate and bully. Yes it is the Hindu Times but the Hindu Times could not prevent Chinese rust buckets from breaking down in Pakistan and neither could the Chinese communist party stop the shiny plastic from cracking in Pakistan. Even a 12 year old can see that no? I learned a nursery rhyme in school today "All the Han's horses and all the Han's men couldn't put rusty together again"


Last edited by shiv on 25 Nov 2012 23:17, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2012 23:16 
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^^Chinese friends indeed. Someone shows his true colors. Next, you can apply for an editorial posting in "The (A-)Hindu" which your Chinese "friend" seems to quote a lot.


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2012 23:39 
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I will throw bricks at Chinese when I will see Mig-29K landing on Vik ... close to Indian shore.. till then Chinese have the bragging rights... quality or lack of it is an issue but some Russian general once said .."Even quantity is quality.."


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2012 23:45 
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^^^ Arun Menon is about to declare me kufr and wajib ul cutl. Et tu Arun?


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2012 23:48 
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wong wrote:
Bheeshma wrote:
True and now after using chinese locomotives , pakis are desperate to beg or lease from India :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bny8p6nALhE


And yet you guys want Chinese trains. See the flaws in your circular logic or over your head ??

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... 62895.aspx

The point was that China sold substandard goods to Pakistan (greatest ali) and failed to provide support on maintenance and spares. China let down Pakistan on this sale and yet you make your pompous and arrogant claim about selling best quality to Pakistan.

The article simply says that China is one of the country India has an interest in working with. Others being Britain, Italy and Japan.

Dont get too excited. Hindu Bania Times are experts at spin :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2012 00:23 
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Chinese are just beginning their carrier operations and first ship is mainly for trainning and learning. I am really impressed to see that they have developed ability to land a J-15 on a moving carrier. It'll take another decade before they will have something decent that they can deploy which is combat/war worthy but they have achived worthy milestones.

As for Indians, we have 50+ year of history and experience in operating carriers and as of today we have one operatrional carrier, one will join next year and another one (Indian designed) is under construction at an Indian shipyard. We have legendary Harriers on Viraat, Mig29K on Vikram and NLCA planned for IAC. There are plans for 65K Ton aircraft carrier as follow-on order as IAC-2. We are doing good here....


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2012 00:38 
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Harshad wrote:

The article simply says that China is one of the country India has an interest in working with. Others being Britain, Italy and Japan.

Dont get too excited. Hindu Bania Times are experts at spin :mrgreen:


You should take a ride on your Mumbai subway trains. :-)



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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2012 00:59 
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Bheeshma wrote:
LOL :rotfl: Agreement mean nothing. Chinese make crappy bikes were being sold for 10,000 rs in India but people ran after seeing their quality. This will go nowehere. Rest assured.
"


People ran yet still runs a $40 billion deficit with China and the deficit is still growing?


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2012 02:31 
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ashi wrote:
Bheeshma wrote:
LOL :rotfl: Agreement mean nothing. Chinese make crappy bikes were being sold for 10,000 rs in India but people ran after seeing their quality. This will go nowehere. Rest assured.
"


People ran yet still runs a $40 billion deficit with China and the deficit is still growing?


Ouch ...


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2012 02:40 
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ashi wrote:
Bheeshma wrote:
LOL :rotfl: Agreement mean nothing. Chinese make crappy bikes were being sold for 10,000 rs in India but people ran after seeing their quality. This will go nowehere. Rest assured.
"


People ran yet still runs a $40 billion deficit with China and the deficit is still growing?


Why not? Just as in technologies China steals, in economics China controls her currency to her advantage. Outside of dumping below cost - subsidized by the GoC.

Point being, yes China has made huge - super huge - advancements. But, wait for a while. It should not take too long for all that to collapse - already has started in some areas.


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2012 02:45 
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shiv wrote:
A single carrier by itself means little - even if we are scared of China. We need to see how they will create a self protecting self sustaining carrier force far away from the brown waters off China. They will no doubt want to do that and we have to wait and see.


Amid all the Noise, finally some Signal. The US carrier task forces come with mind-boggling air defence and anti submarine defence capabilities (and all sorts of electronic warfare magic). If the Chinese carrier were to pony up in the Arabian Sea for a show down with the IAF, I would be way more comfortable operating Sukhois and Rafales out of Lohegaon (with AWACS and refueller support) than CTRL C CTRL V Sukhois off a slow moving boat in the middle of the sea!

And chaps, lets maintain some objectivity. Not all Chinese products are sub-standard. Some of their dishes are truly mouthwatering. My favourite ...

ahem ....

:mrgreen:


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2012 03:18 
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Waylan wrote:
ashi wrote:
People ran yet still runs a $40 billion deficit with China and the deficit is still growing?


Ouch ...


Waylan, ashi: unfortunately for you, the joke is on the Chinese economy, although it is a joke that your leaders appear to enjoy. Maintaining a current account surplus by manipulating one's currency and denying foreigners access to your markets ultimately hurts the Chinese economy. It means that your consumers are denied access to goods and services of the optimal price and quality.

Leaving that aside, a "current account surplus" is by definition equal to a "capital account deficit" i.e. you (China) invest less than you save. Also, a "current account deficit" is by definition equal to a "capital account surplus" i.e. we (India) invest more than we save. Investment drives growth. China's current account surplus with India is funding India's growth ... :lol:

I think you will not believe me (Economics can be quite counter-intuitive). Read this:

Quote:
Current Account Deficits: Is There a Problem?

The current account can also be expressed as the difference between national (both public and private) savings and investment. A current account deficit may therefore reflect a low level of national savings relative to investment or a high rate of investment—or both. For capital-poor developing countries, which have more investment opportunities than they can afford to undertake because of low levels of domestic savings, a current account deficit may be natural. A deficit potentially spurs faster output growth and economic development


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2012 03:28 
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eklavya wrote:

Waylan, ashi: unfortunately for you, the joke is on the Chinese economy, although it is a joke that your leaders appear to enjoy. Maintaining a current account surplus by manipulating one's currency and denying foreigners access to your markets ultimately hurts the Chinese economy. It means that your consumers are denied access to goods and services of the optimal price and quality.

Leaving that aside, a "current account surplus" is by definition equal to a "capital account deficit" i.e. you (China) invest less than you save. Also, a "current account deficit" is by definition equal to a "capital account surplus" i.e. we (India) invest more than we save. Investment drives growth. China's current account surplus with India is funding India's growth ... :lol:

I think you will not believe me (Economics can be quite counter-intuitive). Read this:

Quote:
Current Account Deficits: Is There a Problem?

The current account can also be expressed as the difference between national (both public and private) savings and investment. A current account deficit may therefore reflect a low level of national savings relative to investment or a high rate of investment—or both. For capital-poor developing countries, which have more investment opportunities than they can afford to undertake because of low levels of domestic savings, a current account deficit may be natural. A deficit potentially spurs faster output growth and economic development


Okay, whatever you say. :-) We will happily continue this effort to help our friends, as long as you have the foreign reserves to pay.


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2012 04:10 
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ashi, we use Rupees to buy Dollars, and use Dollars to buy your junk. As long as foreigners are prepared to hold Rupees or Rupee denominated assets (like Mumbai real estate), we dont need to use up our FX reserves. What you need to ask yourself is what is the use of China's $2tn of FX reserves, other than funding other countries' budget deficits. You'd be better off investing it somewhere productive, or buying some imported goods.


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2012 04:24 
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All of you need to grow up, this forum is like a bunch of teenagers in a class room.


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2012 05:00 
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^^ Says the child who spends most of his time, posting obvious propaganda pics, barely there flamebait posts in the Indian eco threads & no worthwhile thoughtful statements.

Many of the people in this forum dwarf you in terms of real world achievements & abilities. If you don't like it, tough sh*t and you are welcome to hike it back to one of your China stlong forums. You are a guest here, understood? Don't push it with your patronizing rubbish.


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2012 05:22 
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Karan M wrote:
^^ Says the child who spends most of his time, posting obvious propaganda pics, barely there flamebait posts in the Indian eco threads & no worthwhile thoughtful statements.

Many of the people in this forum dwarf you in terms of real world achievements & abilities. If you don't like it, tough sh*t and you are welcome to hike it back to one of your China stlong forums. You are a guest here, understood? Don't push it with your patronizing rubbish.


Whatever....


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2012 05:36 
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http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-1 ... -to-airbus

Quote:
Airbus wins 60-plane China order after EU carbon retreat

Bloomberg / Shanghai Nov 25, 2012, 00:30 IST


Airbus SAS won an order for 60 A320 planes from state-backed China Eastern Airlines Corp, less than two weeks after the European Union backed down in a dispute with the government in Beijing over jetliner-emission levies.

China Eastern received a “substantive” discount to the list price of $5.4 billion for the single-aisle planes, it said in a statement from Shanghai yesterday, adding that Toulouse, France-based Airbus also agreed to take 18 regional jets off its hands.

EU plans to impose carbon dioxide-emission fees on flights in and out of the bloc were suspended on Nov. 12 after countries including China, India and Russia threatened retaliatory steps. Airbus parent European Aeronautic , Defence & Space Co. had said the levies might cause China to refuse to take its planes.



“I suspect there’s a message there,” said Sandy Morris , an analyst at Jefferies International in London with a “buy” rating on EADS. “China has been light on A320 orders for a while now and it looks like Airbus held some production slots back until this was resolved. It’s called looking after your customer.”

The A320s, due to arrive from 2014 to 2017, will be used mainly on domestic routes, according to China Eastern, which last year switched an order for 24 Boeing Co. 787s wide-body planes to 45 smaller 737s because of waning long-haul demand.

Regional deal
The airline will sell eight Bombardier CRJ planes and 10 Embraer SA regional jets with a book value of 1.5 billion yuan ($241 million) to Airbus, it said in the statement.

China was pleased with the EU move to suspend the plan for emissions charges, Xia Xinghua , deputy director of its aviation regulator, said Nov. 13. The Asian country’s airline association said in June that carriers would snub a deadline for filing emissions data and that the government would support them.

Three calls to China Eastern’s offices outside regular office hours yesterday went unanswered.

Airbus Chief Executive Officer Fabrice Bregier said in September that China was withholding signature on 35 to 45 wide- body A330 planes because of the emissions dispute. A contract for those aircraft would have given a “bigger signal” regarding current Chinese attitudes, Jefferies’ Morris said.

Airbus, which has an A320 assembly plant in China, won an order for 50 of the planes from the leasing arm of state- controlled Industrial & Commercial Bank of China in August.

China and other nations had said the EU should wait for a global emissions program being drawn up by the United Nations’ aviation agency rather than push ahead with a regional plan.

The levies are designed to curb C02 output associated with global warming.


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2012 05:46 
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Don wrote:
Whatever....


Typical response really....and then the standard drone copy paste of 1 more "China success" below when it has nothing to do with Chinese military aviation & comes with no real input from you. Jeez, you guys are too predictable. Just copy pasting stuff from Chinese forums & your databases to somehow impress folks here..


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2012 05:48 
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Bheeshma wrote:
LOL Chinese technology scares the crap out of the poor users like PAF and PN more than any adversary.


Its worth remarking that if Chinese technology was even half as good as claimed, the Pakistanis would not be so desparate to spend their Forex on F-16s or upgraded P3Cs - all of which are Tier-2 western items versus the top of the line systems available from the west. The F-16 is no EF/Rafale, the P3 is now superceded by the P8 ...


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2012 06:54 
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India Fails to Strategically Balance Chinese Military
Quote:
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There is an increasing feeling in India that negotiations have dragged for too long. Adding to India’s discomfort is the fact that even after many unilateral concessions, China has shown little inclination to compromise. For example, in 2005 the two nations agreed to settle the territorial dispute in a manner that the interests of settled populations would not be bothered. Whereas the Western sector under Chinese control has no permanent populations and is absolutely barren, the Eastern sector under Indian control has a substantial population of Buddhists as well as other tribal communities. Clearly, the idea behind the 2005 declaration was to resolve the border dispute by making de jure the de facto control of existing territories. However, by 2007, the Chinese Foreign Minister had repudiated any such compromise.

China also seems to have included the border dispute within its concept of ‘core interests’, a euphemism which it reserves for Taiwan and South China Sea. Irrespective of the disputes in high seas, China has settled its border disputes with all its neighbours except India and Bhutan. Even with Vietnam, with whom China fought a bloody war in 1979, the border dispute has been negotiated peacefully.

Three reasons might explain China’s reluctance to resolve the India-China border dispute. First, China would like to settle its territorial disputes in the east and South China Sea before any resolution of the conflict with India. By postponing any ultimate resolution of the border dispute, China makes sure that India remains anxious and avoids any collective balancing with other littoral states such as Japan and Vietnam who also have territorial disputes.

Second, China's claims on Indian territory are linked to consolidating its rather shaky rule in Tibet, where an indigenous movement for greater autonomy and independence still thrives. Prevaricating on the border dispute helps China’s fix its Tibet problem by keeping the pressure on India not to support any notions of Tibetan independence and clamping down on any pro-independence activities from Tibetan leaders and refugees living in India. This is also linked to the institution of the Dalai Lama. China would very much like to control the Tibetan spiritual authority and is therefore anxiously waiting for an opportunity to appoint a puppet once the incumbent Dalai Lama passes away. However, the nightmare scenario for China would be the appointment of the next Dalai Lama from regions outside its control. In fact, the successor of the Dalai Lama can come from the Indian state of Arunanchal Pradesh as it is culturally an extension of Tibet. Keeping the conflict alive, therefore, is a strategy to coerce India into submission as far as any challenge to China’s Tibet policy is concerned.

Third, given China’s close alliance with Pakistan, the strategy of indefinitely extending boundary negotiations allows Beijing to contain India in the South Asian tinderbox, preventing the country from exerting global influence as would be expected of any rising power. Also, by keeping the conflict open on India's borders both with Pakistan and China, it helps to effectively divide India's military power by keeping alive the possibility of a two front war and hence, diluting India’s effective military capability.
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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2012 07:33 
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Don wrote:
All of you need to grow up, this forum is like a bunch of teenagers in a class room.

So the Pakistanis were right in describing the Chinese as "old men" when they saw how the did their flying displays in Zhuhai?

http://www.grandestrategy.com/2010/11/e ... huhai.html
Quote:
What follows is a summary of Eagle Hannan's posts from Pakdef.

Hannan describes the aerobatics display of the JF-17 as brilliant. The JF-17 flew twice every day of the air show. He notes that the weather conditions were very bad and hard to take videos in. He said that the J-10s did not perform particularly well. Hannan comments that in 14 minutes of display there was a single performance of 360 and three half-hearted loops. He observes that the rest of the displays by the J-10 were formation flights. He notes that one of the Sherdil pilots comments about the J-10 pilots in Punjabi that the old men of China cannot fly their own planes.


:rotfl: You comment fits in perfectly with what your taller than mountain deeper than ocean allies think of you. You guys really ought to repair the Karakoram highway for them so thy can visit their cousins in Uighuristan, also called Xinjiang.


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2012 07:53 
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^^Its remarkable how China views the rest of the world and sees itself in every other nation. They have contempt for those not richer and more powerful than them, but all the same imagines them to have thoughts, ideas, reasoning and motivations that it has. It could have really had a friend in India, but the wicked only see wickedness in others. It couldn't help making an enemy of India and despite the repeated attempts made by the Indians to resolves matters, it kept on pushing and pushing. It has made sure that it has not only created an enemy, but continues to nurture that enemy through periodic threats and provocations.

In the end, what has it really received for its trouble? The much vaunted stunt-zoo strategic thinking has only earned them the hostility of the one nation in the world besides the USA that can cause its dreams and fantasies to be dashed and broken. Today, instead of focusing on completely on its REAL interests in South East Asia and East Asia, it has to worry about hundreds of thousands of soldiers at its eastern border, hundreds of combat aircraft and one of the most powerful military machines in the world.

Anyone with any insight into the psyche of the Indian nation will realize that it is lacking in forethought and excels in reacting to adversity. We do our best with our backs to the wall. By provoking and patronizing India, China has created the self-fulfilling prophecy of a hostile neighbour, which in the end will become its greatest enemy.

This is why I would like to thank the Chinese for giving us the opportunity to react to them and better ourselves in the process. I hope they would throw more grave provocations at us, the graver the better. Please make more flying fakes and cruising casinos, you would be doing us a favour. you make sure that our politicians do not divert money needed for defence to harebrained welfare schemes.

As for the flame-baiting drones, they are just doing what they need to do to keep their gals from going with better men. I do not bark back at the dogs that are a perpetual nuisance in my neighbourhood.

Also, mahadevbhu you are not living in porkistan and we here are sickular people. Besides, this ain't Facebook.


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2012 07:59 
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Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
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Location: Col of the regiment, ORR JTF unit
Myanmar has steadily slipped out of the chinese orbit and the visit by Obama cements that fact. thats one prong of the chinese "strategy" soundly defeated.
look for things like textile quotas and tax breaks to come to Yangon soon, and some of the money pouring into bangladesh, vietnam and cambodia to be diverted there. they can also support the higher tech manufacturing in thailand and malaysia nearby. US marine MEU will be holding disaster relief and training drills shortly one expects.

in entire east asia, other than north korea ( :-o ), there is no chinese ally and china is ensuring they all turn to US for protection by browbeating them.

in south asia, the moth-eaten remnants of pakistan soldier on into the night, while a angry and aggressive India takes steps to bring some pain in the soft underbelly of Cheen.

Russia has retained her mil bases and "strongmen" in the CAR states.

for all the talk of Sun-Tzu strategy, to me it seems Cheen strategy in the last 15 yrs has been a spectacular failure in reducing the level of threat to Cheen from its periphery.
they are struggling to keep Pakistan "volunteers" from consuming Uighurs using iron fisted measures.


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2012 08:19 
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Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Posts: 23210
Location: Embarrassed by fresh-off-the-boat Indians
The question that seems to keep cropping up is "What does China really want?"

My own view on this is to ask, "When China does something is it all of China that is doing it, or is it one influential core group or ruling elite who are doing that?"

If we look at the way we answer this question for ourselves using other examples, we have, in the past said that
1. Pakistanis are a fractured lot and that many things done by "Pakistan" are merely the actions of the controlling army and Islamic extremists
2. India is controlled by a sickula elite who don't know what India wants.
3. We say this about the US as well where we conclude that here is a conspiracy that keeps a tight knit elite in power.

If we apply the same logic to China it means that "What china does" is merely a reflection of the actions of the core communist politburo and not the entire Chinese nation working in unison. It also means that the question "What does China really want?" can be answered by saying that "What China appears to want is only what the Chicom Politburo wants to be made public. It need not reflect what Chinese people want"

If the politburo finds it necessary to keep up the shrill border dispute cry it might not mean that al Chinese are united in that. It might well mean that all China's disputes are highlighted by the politburo to keep the military well funded. In a country which has ethnic and economic disparity a powerful military is useful for the government. If the military is used for internal discipline to a great extent in addition to external threats it needs funding. But no government can claim funding for internal discipline alone. The external threat has to be played up. So the Chines politburo names everyone else as an enemy. If they stop doing that then we have to suspect a ploy, because they only want to survive and hold on to power while controlling 1.4 billion people.

I am not stating this as a great revelation or a previously unknown tactic. I am just putting a reminder of what seem to be facts to my mind. Conflict with China should be aimed at shaming the politburo and military leaders so they have to answer their people for the extra funding and power the Chinese military is getting.


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