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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2012 23:09 
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saravana wrote:
Shiv saar, I doubt racism plays a part in mocking the Chinese and gaping in awe of the West. If you are not talking about Han specifically, I am sure people have a healthy respect for capabilities of say, Korea and Japan.
People say end justifies the means and it doesn't matter how Chinese come up with the glittering military toys as long as they have them. In battlefield, perhaps. But it is difficult to admire or attribute to greatness beyond a point.
Why China is so confident, why these periodic c**ktease grainy pictures and videos of military toys released as if they surreptitiously taken by common citizens? If the Chinese are not confident, why should we be confident on behalf of them.
I also doubt if these Chinese peekaboo revelations are aimed at US. Possibly aimed at the neighbours across the pond or across the molehill.


I cannot carry the racism argument too far, but words in my mind cannot express the curious spectacle of having Indians chide me for not worrying about China and chide me again for worrying about the US. The reasons quoted are "China is a threat. The US is not a threat. In any case India can never hope to get anywhere near the US so just accept that and don't punch too high. Try and get the Chinese first."

If I was American and if I was racist, this is exactly what I would say to an Indian "Don't get uppity. Try someone your size. Don't even think of looking at me" I may be wrong but this is what the argument looks like to me.

I do not agree with that. China is competing with the US and a lot of other countries. India too is competing with a lot of countries. India needs to learn its lessons and technology from the best in the world. For that we need to compete with the best in the world. We have to get in a situation where we can beat the US at least in local conflicts if the US tries to get proxies to fight. China is doing that. China is building itself up to challenge the US. If the US goes down we will go down too if we simply try and oppose China while playing second fiddle to the US and "sucking up and admiring US power". If we oppose China we are helping the US. The US will not appreciate or show gratitude if we help them. They will merely take advantage of the relief that India-China hostility gives them. If we are really powerful, we can share the spoils whether China goes down or the US goes down.

So fear of China can only take us so far. There are plenty of things we need to fear.


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2012 23:16 
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mahadevbhu wrote:
More on topic questions;

1. How do our Mig 29 Ks compare to their Su 33s? My knowledge says that they have lower range, persistence, radar signatures as compared to the Sus.

Does anyone know how a Mig 29 (in general, not K) will do against a Su 30 , in combat?

2. What is the chief goal of our Sea Harriers? Is it ground attack, air to air, or multi role? How does it, compare to a Su 33 that the CN has?


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2012 23:18 
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mahadevbhu wrote:

Good news that CN has carrier borne launches and landings of fighters. Good for them.

I am ignorant as to how good we are as compared to the CN....how far can we send our CBGs, for example? Can we send our carrier to the South China Sea and do a blockade, of say, Hong Kong? What do we need to reach that goal? Is that a worthy goal, or , is it better to first reach the goal of killing off Chinese energy supplies through the Lakshwadeep, Mauritius, Andaman and Nicobar Island island chains?


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2012 23:55 
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Shivji....you prefer out and out Chinese enmity to rationality? I find the Chinese to be as much of an enemy of India as you do...but I will not cloud my mind with rhetoric and cries of Allahu Akbar .I will calmly get better and then prepare for war.

No?


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2012 02:50 
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It just cracks me up every time I read this shrink's posts. Where is my bag of popcorn. Carry on.


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2012 03:11 
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The more I think about it - more confident that I become of the Indian political class and babudom not letting the country down. It would be outrageous!

If China were to hypothetically roll over and bull doze Indian army (juuust in case) who would it affect most?! The babus and the netas. :) :lol: They will lose their lively-hood and no one to fill their greed and power. It is in their best interest to protect the Indian borders so that they can happily rule over the 'aam janta' and feed their insatiable greed for money and power! :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2012 03:37 
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"If I was American and if I was racist, this is exactly what I would say to an Indian "Don't get uppity. Try someone your size. Don't even think of looking at me" I may be wrong but this is what the argument looks like to me."

Well actually, as an American instead I would say : "Please, have pity on us. We try so hard and it just doesn't seem to do any good. They all take our money and then abuse us. Nothing ever works right and we know we are the fault of everything wrong in world. But some day, the right person will win the election for president and we will withdraw from meddlling in foreign affairs and there will be peace and justice through out the world as we huddle behind Fortress America's walls. The Chinese will love us and India, too."


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2012 03:57 
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I am only amused how confucian conscious will over power confusion conscious., under the pretext china is more organized than indics. The chinese fear will double when we export our pure breed india-ginized politics to their land. This is what that matters, and the reverse pisskology thread will end with such an idea is a given.


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2012 03:58 
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WRECK iT RALPH For President
Yahoo gediup

Image


Quote:
Ralph is tired of being overshadowed by Fix-It Felix, the "good guy" star of their game who always gets to save the day. But after decades doing the same thing and seeing all the glory go to Felix, Ralph decides he's tired of playing the role of a bad guy. He takes matters into his own massive hands and sets off on a game-hopping journey across the arcade through every generation of video


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2012 05:31 
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shiv wrote:
There will come a day when a Chinese carrier with support vessels will sail into the Indian ocean. The ships will get support from Pakistani ports. This is inevitable. It is not only US ships that are allowed to sail into distant oceans. Others can do that too. But we need to plan to knock any navy out, not just the Chinese navy. So if they sail into the Indian ocean they will allow us to see them and allow us to test them.

We have allowed Japanese trawlers to collect sand from Indian beaches. Fishing vessels from everywhere hunt in the Indian ocean. Italian marines shot Indian fishermen in Indian waters. Dinghies sailed into Mumbai with terrorists and they went undetected. Tomorrow will be the 4th anniversary of that. Iran, that supplied Pakistan with arms in the last India-Pakistan war was building up such a formidable Navy with US help just before Khomeini that I was surprised at the lack of panic in Indian newspapers. Luckily that changed, but even today the Pakistani navy is close enough for us to worry and they have equipment and support from the USA whose power I have been asked to "Suck it up and live with it"

Hey we can suck it up and live with Chinese power no? Why the extra worry about China?


The simple fact of life is that GOI tends to be more obsessed with winning the next election than running the country including its various issues - national and international. The current UPA is a disaster that keeps giving from that point, even with a completely pliant media and babucracy.

Even so, its worth remarking that Indian defence modernization has not completely stalled (despite St Antony's fervent efforts) and in fact has passed several critical milestones. Whats worth remarking is how good it would have been, if there was an effective admin at the helm versus the current one.

The important thing is that despite all the political ineffectiveness, things keep moving. Every other year, a new DPP has been made, the private sector has fought for & is getting its way into manufacturing, and Indian R&D (DRDO & partners) have shown a consistent record of performance & product improvement (check the missile program for instance).

Right now, as things stand, the NE fight will be attrition. Manpower and training is on our side. Artillery on the Chinese side but again, if they attack and we defend, the force advantage has to be overwhelming to give clean victories, that is doubtful looking at the PLA as it stands. It will take a deus ex machina for the PLA to have a decisive victory

In terms of the AF - surprisingly, the Air Arms are evenly matched in terms of combat aircraft numbers of the 4G kind, especially considering both sides have to take other zones into account (Pak for India, Taiwan/Korea/Japan etc for PRC). Their advantages are in terms of more cruise missiles (presumably) and better SAM coverage. Again, a lot of these have been used for protecting Beijing but the rapid imports of S-3XX SAMs has given them an edge in terms of LR coverage. The LY/KS series SAMs wont be as sophisticated but allow for layering. Again, once India gets the Nirbhay, and MR/LRSAMs in production, these advantages wont be as significant. The Brahmos program as it stands will give the IAF a reasonable option in the 300 km range. Beyond that, and you really are looking at strategic assets, and expecting pinpoint strikes may be a bit too much for either side.

I would suggest anyone looking at Naval comparisons to look at a comparison made by RahulM on an IBN blog. Again, the gap is not significant, and if the PLAN comes looking for a fight, they don't possess an overwhelming advantage.

Basically, India needs to get a few programs right - especially its artillery gun tubes., long range AEW & C (with bistatic surveillance asset integration) - underway, and the PLA's much vaunted modernization will be countered to a significant degree.

Judging by their J-10 experience, the vast majority of their J-20/J-31/J-XX programs are going to a decade to mature (the J-10 took far more time than that) & won't be at the same level or better than the latest items India is either purchasing (Rafale) or codeveloping (the FGFA). The J-10 specs were recently revealed, and they are nothing particularly fanciful or significant. The decades old MiG-29 platform with upgrades is likely to come out ahead in several criteria.

Point is a whole bunch of Chinese posters seem to have got it into their heads that coming to BR, posting staged pics & then when nobody remarks - the next one comes along, quotes it, and then posts a supportive statements (saying x in service, y ready etc)....is a very great way to convince India & Indians of China's might.

As if.

The reality is that the Indian Armed Forces are well aware of the Chinese issue & are also well versed in using it to justify their own modernization. A few pics of prototypes are not going to scare them if they can't convince many of us.

Once conventionally stalemated, the nuclear factor is an issue. And there of course, its a whole different ballgame.

Even there, I doubt whether the Indian position is as "weak" as assumed. Reason exists to believe that with IGMP having delivered, enough steps are being put in place to create a tough deterrent.


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2012 05:52 
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when pressed with nuke option, the game always changes. other than paki-speaks, conventionally we have to be superior like 1:10 in terms of quality for numbers., where our strategy is dual war attacking both terror nations.

if we are succumbing to short term vision problems, then IA will face a conventional wipe out... and this fear will remain till our ratios look better. IA will need to know this, and work with DRDO labs to acquire weapons to match P5 nations., and not completely take blind weapons purchase route for the sake of numbers alone.


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2012 06:09 
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Given the assumption that China will defeat India, question is if China will reorder the pecking order between Pakistan and India (we need to prepare for the ultimate of such a defeat).


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2012 06:11 
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Waylan wrote:
It just cracks me up every time I read this shrink's posts. Where is my bag of popcorn. Carry on.

On the general subject of being cracked, I cannot for the life of me understand why China is considered such a big enemy when some of us are so busy congratulating them and praising their every success and then calling for Indians to get a kick up their backsides. Surely the last thing we should be doing if China is an enemy is this fake, pretend "magnanmity and chivalry" where we congratulate them on their claimed or real successes. What sort of fraudulent cheer is this?

The Chinese are never going to congratulate us on any achievement we have, nor are they going to cheer and egg the USA on every time the USA scores a spectacular military tech achievement. That, in my view is a fundamental requirement. You cannot go around praising and raising a toast to an adversary whom you do not trust and see as your greatest enemy and then recommend that your own side needs to have its backside kicked. What gives? I mean its like a story book with two knights and the Indian knight Sir Infero chivalrously compliments the Chinese Knight Sir Han shortly before their joust "Greetings Sir Han. Thy armor shineth brightly today and thy steed impresseth me greatly. I applaud thee before the battle" And then the knight turns around and looks at the knave who is his groom and curses him and says "You must receive-eth a resounding kick-eth, for thou art asleep while Sir Han is going to rippeth us a new one"

If the Chinese are a deadly enemy we gain nothing by praising them and pretending that we are cheered by their great successes. Enemies need to be treated like enemies. Chivalry is for the victor to choose after defeating an adversary, not something to be thrown around in a fake pretence of cheer evenrt time an adversary shows his strength. It is especially galling to hear Indians be cursed by other Indians who pipe up and praise and congratulate China for developments that bode us ill. What sort of attitude is that?


Last edited by shiv on 26 Nov 2012 06:19, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2012 06:14 
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the fear can be induced by many sources.. the one who sells arms and the one who make big bucks in the middle play important role in causing the fear to spread. and at EoD, it is all sales book and commissions (including the scratchbacks) that decides the winner.


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2012 06:52 
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Since I stand accused of pisking, let me do just that.

The tactics set in motion after Macaulay was to create a class of Indian who were Indians in appearance but were not Indians in every other sense - in their sensibilities, attitudes, reading and culture. These Indians were able to stand away from the mass of average Indians and comment critically on them while not fearing the British in any way. They saw themselves as equal to the British and a notch above other Indians.

The same attitude seems to crop up in a weird neo-Macaulayite way where we have Indians who are able to stand up and apart from the mass of Indians and tell them that they need a kick up their backsides for not fearing China while the person making that recommendation, himself an Indian, is all praise for China. The attitude goes one step further with the USA where it is not even necessary to congratulate the US - the US's superiority is taken as a given and any complaints about the US are dismissed with a withering "suck it up"

We still have a class of Indian who see themselves as away from, apart from and above all other Indians who need to be kicked or lectured by this neo-Macaulayite who sees himself as capable of speaking about China as an equal - by complimenting China or is able to speak up on behalf of the US and ask others to "Suck it up and live with US superiority"

These are weird attitudes that I believe are a product of Indian education. What I think we really need to "suck up" is that India will never be China or the US. We have to work with what we have. Not lecture them and curse them while putting oneself on a lecture podium that is neither Indian, nor Chinese, nor American - just separate. A podium that allows patronizing lectures for Indian failures and praise of others. The Browns sahibs and boxwallahs used to do just that.


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2012 07:19 
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cross post from the China mil thread
Quote:

Quote:
Clearly, China’s force projection capabilities have increased dramatically in the recent past. China is also increasing its ballistic missile and nuclear weapons inventory in the region.


In my opinion the author of this article is confused. When was this "recent past" when China's force projection capabilities "increased"?

The fact is that China has had the ability to project a nuclear force anywhere in India for over 30 years. It is only in the conventional sphere that China's abilities have improved recently and continue to improve. This sudden panic-button pressing is the product of a mind that does not believe that nuclear war can occur and does not believe that China will use nukes. Hence the fear that conventional forces are getting stronger. This attitude does not want to think about nuclear war and the use of nuclear weapons. The worry is that China will win a conventional war and not even have to use nukes, and therefore we have to improve our conventional forces to keep up with China. This was exactly the concern that was expressed by analysts in the 1970s before India had a semblance of nuclear weapons piddly kiloton fission as they might be. In those days the lament was that India did not have nukes and is also conventionally inferior to China. 40 years later there is no let up. China is still ahead. conventionally and nuke forces wise and this time the demand is "Do more do more conventionally"

You see, if China is about to win a conventional war against us without using nukes we have only two options
1. Use nukes to stop that
or
2. Accept defeat


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2012 08:44 
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shiv ji..would not that just reflect what pakis would do to us.. in the sense, if they can't accept defeat conventionally, they proudly chest beat and say, they shall not hesitate to go press the nuke button. are you otherwise saying, just use the same pissko for china?


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2012 08:48 
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The news item below is the classic example of the Indian who stands alone on a podium above and separate from other Indians and lectures them about why they should not get uppity because he knows how good the Gods themselves are and finds himself in a position to lecture other Indians. This is Rajat Pandit, a classic neo-Macaulayite in ToI
The url is:
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... egis-bmd-3

pentaiah wrote:

Indian AAD
Quote:
NEW DELHI:
But the reality check is that even American missile defence systems like Patriot Advanced Capability-3, Aegis BMD-3 and THAAD (terminal high-altitude area defence), as also Russian and Israeli ones, are not fully foolproof as of now.

In Friday's test, only one of the incoming missiles was real



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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2012 08:51 
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SaiK wrote:
shiv ji..would not that just reflect what pakis would do to us.. in the sense, if they can't accept defeat conventionally, they proudly chest beat and say, they shall not hesitate to go press the nuke button. are you otherwise saying, just use the same pissko for china?


Of course! What kind of silly caste system mentality would make anyone think that we should not behave like Pakis or that Paki behaviour is ineffective in holding adversaries at bay? What kind of "chivalry and magnanimity" would make us hold a brainless moralistic attitude about not behaving like Pakistan when we are continuously trembling with fear about China?


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2012 09:02 
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sure.. we can give P5 caste system a run for their money.


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2012 13:12 
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shiv wrote:
The news item below is the classic example of the Indian who stands alone on a podium above and separate from other Indians and lectures them about why they should not get uppity because he knows how good the Gods themselves are and finds himself in a position to lecture other Indians. This is Rajat Pandit, a classic neo-Macaulayite in ToI
The url is:
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... egis-bmd-3


A lot of so called journalists who tend to write such articles are also complete and total frauds, shoved on us by a willing and pliant media system full of a weird mix of Macaulayite & Leftist self loathing.

Take Guha - one day a cricket historian, the other day a sociologist and a dynasty hagiographer through and through. Gets TV time all the time. Take this fellow Pandit. What does he actually know of defence, as versus copy pasting from whatever hand me down documents, his "sources" give him? This is the same fool who tried to dismiss the BMD system as a trick by DRDO to downplay criticism. No admission of his rubbish later either.

A Praful Bidwai - zero professional ability re: hands on tech to his credit or professional work as an analyst - can write on anything from ICBMs to deterrence. Anybody and his dog can pass himself as an expert provided he/she has the right pappi-jhappi contacts in the Indian media system.

Only a handful of journos (TSS in Hindu, Gokhale from NDTV, and a few more) are actually serious about their work.
Rest are complete fakers. Including that Aroor character (rips off pics wherever he finds them & then puts his watermark on them!)

Basically, its all about who knows who and where..
The Indian media needs a lot of cleansing.


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PostPosted: 26 Nov 2012 18:25 
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Sorry shiv ji
Your piskology extension studies are in correct

Pentaiqh did not write the quote
It's from Times of Indira you are quoting
Most of the time you are honest to fault
But alas you give pentaiah too much credibility or knowledge


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PostPosted: 27 Nov 2012 00:03 
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Indian lungi/dhoti shivering at the sight of Armed build - up of China.

If just Indian politicos step aside and Indian Armed Forces rule the border then we will see a different scenario. I wish sanity prevails at the politico establishment and they take some pragmatic steps .. they can wear lungi/dhoti also.


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PostPosted: 29 Nov 2012 11:21 
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prabir wrote:
Cannot agree more. NRI = Non Reliable Indian
If India with a professional army cannot ensure a good response (in some cases asymmetrical), then its a shame, because even today Vietnam can give a bloody nose to China.


NRI='Not- Required Indians'

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emirate ... 1-1.479564


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PostPosted: 29 Nov 2012 11:52 
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TSJones wrote:
I don't think the main worry is China taking over India. I think it is the possibility that China could force India to cede whatever it is that China wants.

So what does China want?


The best post on this thread

So what does China want?

I would like to add

Why do they want?


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PostPosted: 08 Dec 2012 17:25 
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X post

manjgu wrote:
a) my frnd who heads CII in China tells me that Chinese manufactures 3 grades/quality of goods. one is for the african market , one for the asian market and one for the developed world ( europe, USA....). So lets not kid ourselves with poor quality of chinese goods. they are NOT intending to sell good quality products to third world countries. Its cheap stuff which works well for some time and then goes bust and u buy another one ( which is fine with the general populace of 3rd world). its much cheaper than the local produce of a little better quality ( but price being a major determinant, the local produce is slowly losing out).

b) on the chinese stealing copying technology...all countries including india indulge in industrial espionage. Indians rocket program has benefited a lot from such clandestine activity. Dont ask me proofs, anybody who is in the business knows it. Chinese have been more willing and able to indulge in industrial espionage/copy paste than others is the only point worth mentioning. This is due to their single minded focus to produce things indegenously and fulfill their super power ambitions. While their products may still not be world class , I think they are making an effort ( which needs to be complimented.). Nothing stops india or any other country to do what it takes to be self sufficient. I dont know what is this hulla bullo all about?

I would anyday prefer a lesser quality indian product ( wwhich i can manufacture at low cost and in significant numbers) over super duper foreign products ( which are costly, maybe prone to sanctions etc). Its just a question of national will to pursue its self interest.

c) I guess India is happy buying from overseas and politicians making their usual cut, that local manufacture/ research is not encouraged much?

d) chinese companies like Lenovo, Huawei etc are slowly making their mark on the world scene. What happened to C DOT which was the local effort in telecomm? has it sunk without trace?? Indian companies who were info PC manufacture have just faded off leaving the market open for overseas brands like Dell, Lenovo etc. Indian manufacturing has taken a total beating.

there is nothing wrong with learning even from your enemy !!


manjgu wrote:
I have always paid attention to the merits of my enemies, and found it an advantage.

JOHANN WOLFGANG VON GOETHE


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PostPosted: 08 Dec 2012 18:25 
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aditya.agd wrote:
Indian lungi/dhoti shivering at the sight of Armed build - up of China.

If just Indian politicos step aside and Indian Armed Forces rule the border then we will see a different scenario. I wish sanity prevails at the politico establishment and they take some pragmatic steps .. they can wear lungi/dhoti also.

Minimum that Indian politicos could do is to increase the defense budget twice on watching anti-India build up on two fronts directly.


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PostPosted: 08 Dec 2012 21:49 
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Eric Thompson wrote:
TSJones wrote:
I don't think the main worry is China taking over India. I think it is the possibility that China could force India to cede whatever it is that China wants.

So what does China want?


The best post on this thread

So what does China want?

I would like to add

Why do they want?


In order to expand the Greater Han Co-Prosperity Sphere? I might add that in which the top American Fortune 500 companies contributed mightily to help them. Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

Addendum:

Apple Corp. has at least $100 billion in profits parked in foreign deposits; it earned $40 billion last quarter and is expected to make at least $50 billion or more profit next quarter. That is net guys, not sales. Long live China, right?


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PostPosted: 08 Dec 2012 23:22 
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China wants what she wants without lifting a finger. Just because she says so she wants.


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PostPosted: 09 Dec 2012 10:05 
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Eric Thompson wrote:
I don't think the main worry is China taking over India. I think it is the possibility that China could force India to cede whatever it is that China wants.

So what does China want?

The best post on this thread

So what does China want?

ralphy wrote:
I would like to add

Why do they want?

In order to expand the Greater Han Co-Prosperity Sphere? I might add that in which the top American Fortune 500 companies contributed mightily to help them. Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

Addendum:

Apple Corp. has at least $100 billion in profits parked in foreign deposits; it earned $40 billion last quarter and is expected to make at least $50 billion or more profit next quarter. That is net guys, not sales. Long live China, right?




Read the latest news week
China wants everything even Mongolia
Because Ghengis Khan ruled China
If his remains are found then Mongolia belongs to PRC goes the argument.


Quote:

At the very least, it might create geopolitical tensions as many Chinese believe Genghis Khan was Chinese, and China claims him as their own. Indeed, a huge mausoleum has been constructed in China to hold a replica of Khan’s empty coffin, and the monument is popular with the Chinese, some of whom worship him as a semidivine ancestor.

“If Genghis Khan’s tomb is discovered in Mongolia, it will have enormous geopolitical repercussions,” says John Man, the author of Genghis Khan: Life, Death, and Resurrection. “Many people in China believe Mongolia, like Tibet, should be part of China, as it was under Kublai Khan. If China succeeds in establishing mining rights in Mongolia and a dominance over that industry, then Genghis’s tomb might become a focal point for political ambitions, the like of which we have never seen.”
.


http://magazine-directory.com/Newsweek.htm


At that rate UK belongs to India and as extension USA and Canada belongs to India as well


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PostPosted: 09 Dec 2012 21:58 
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BRFite

Joined: 04 Jul 2012 19:29
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Wow, Chinese exhibiting the same characteristics as their taller deeper friends, of worshiping their conquerors!
When the iron curtain opens a bit more, we can hope to see more such insecurities.


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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2012 21:48 
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BRF Oldie

Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
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bodhi wrote:
A knowledgeable friend called to say China had bought off the entire production line of the Tu-22M3M — the latest variant of of the ‘Backfire’ strategic bomber from Russia for $1.5 billion, just $500 million more, as he reminded me, than what India will be paying to acquire the Pilatus propeller-driven trainer aircraft from Switzerland. This little snippet for anybody who doubts that India is getting things strategically so horribly wrong!!

http://bharatkarnad.com/2012/12/11/tu-2 ... al-bikram/

Dont know the authenticity, just saw this on a thread.


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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2012 23:02 
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BRFite

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shiv wrote:
bodhi wrote:
A knowledgeable friend called to say China had bought off the entire production line of the Tu-22M3M — the latest variant of of the ‘Backfire’ strategic bomber from Russia for $1.5 billion, just $500 million more, as he reminded me, than what India will be paying to acquire the Pilatus propeller-driven trainer aircraft from Switzerland. This little snippet for anybody who doubts that India is getting things strategically so horribly wrong!!

http://bharatkarnad.com/2012/12/11/tu-2 ... al-bikram/

Dont know the authenticity, just saw this on a thread.
.

Shiv ji, but why do the Chinese need TU-22 if their J-20/J-31 programs are going so well. It is akin to a car company like Porsche manufacturing Maruti 800. Chinese people very interesting.


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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2012 23:09 
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BRFite

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maruti is affordable , has market world wide in cheap price and huge quantities, while the taller than mountains need porche.

Or to put a label on maruti
my other car is Porsche

Even better reason
So that India could not buy the same.

recall the US and Israeli after the collapse of SU and Easter Block countries
soft landed the Scientists, Technologists, Engineers and scientists into their fold so that only they can contol the products and proliferation of know how.

The Israelis are even smarter they bought Czech Polish Romanian Hugarian companies in electro optics, micro electronics, armaments and UV manufactring business.


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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2012 23:24 
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BRFite

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Location: still settling...
they bought assembly line...maybe they ll shift it to mainland...

These bombars will be mass produced for any eventuality with USA....

They are backing up themselves till they achieve surity with new fighters they have ventured into....

Everything they are doing is for 10 years down the line...

They are buying teeth to scare away any sign of weakness...which will cause everyone to pounce on them...

They have gathered a lot more mightier enemies than us...


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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2012 23:41 
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BRFite

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pentaiah wrote:
maruti is affordable , .


But this Maruti( Tu-22 ) is anything but affordable. Only a nation which has a cold war type priorities and budget like the 20th century Soviet Union and USA can afford a white elephant like this. In 21st century this kind of plane is a sitting duck when it comes to operating in Contested airspace.

Which brings me back to my original question. If J-20/J-31 and their other programs are proceeding so well as the Chinese media would have us believe, then why are they investing $1.5 billion USD in an obsolete plane :?:


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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2012 01:02 
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BRFite

Joined: 17 Feb 2012 20:45
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Quote:
but why do the Chinese need TU-22 if their J-20/J-31 programs are going so well.


May be they are interested in one of the subsystem technologies they couldn't master? may be we shouldn't be surprised if it re-emerges as something else like the floating casino they bought.


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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2012 06:07 
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The Tu 22 is an outdated aircraft and I doubt if the Chinese will want to enter into the game of re-engining that plane because the assembly line will not come with engine mfg unit. I suspect they want jigs and machinery for handling large aircraft parts.


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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2012 13:14 
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Fake test of Agony I. DRDO were seen nanny'ing the SFC so that the test can be claimed successful.

Why fake? There are no grainy photos from behind bushes.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/agni1-successfully-testfired/article4190985.ece

We cannot carry on like this. The missile must have broken in pieces, but falling in ocean gives no proof.


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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2012 20:08 
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BRFite

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"What does China want?" Probably the removal of India as a major potential or actual competitor; the curbing or nullifying of India's nuclear and missile capability; a huge increase in China's involvement in the Indian economy, with a view to controlling large sections of it; the transfer of Arunachal Pradesh, or a large part of it, into China's hands; the cessation of all Tibetan emigre activities in India.

One thing the Chinese can forget about, is AP. The people there would not accept Chinese rule. Whatever their problems in India, they are too used to Indian democracy, pluralism, federalism and general easy-goingness, to tolerate a more regimented, domineering, military oriented Chinese regime. No sensible country in the world, nor the UN, would endorse any Chinese belligerence on AP, and attempt to annex the province. There's more to life and politics than military ops.

For the other stuff, it's just a question of the will and steadfastness of the Indian government and people.


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