Bharat Rakshak

China says new jet not copied from US



China should clarify where it copied the tech from US or Russia?

Hmm. Just curious. I have not seen anyone accusing China of copying the J-15 from the US. The only reason for China to come out with such a statement is for internal Chinese consumption - that is I am guessing that Chinese people have been critical of the way China is being shamed because the J-15 is a copy. So they are being given a balm by this white lie, or black truth. The J-15 is not copied (from the US). Ashwathhama (the elephant) is dead

You did not miss much, saarey. As per diagram, the PLAAF intercepted a PAKFA with "nuclear armed" SU30s... we are dhooomed

But it is nice to know (for more than one reason) that they indulge in cheongsam-shiver, whenever a takeoff happens at Tezpur

Yes, you are right on the first point, but India did sign and ratify the Outer Space Treaty.

Also another point of interest from wikipedia aunty article on Outer Space Treaty says that

Note that this treaty does not ban the placement of weapons in space in general, only nuclear weapons and WMD.

if the chinese were spooked by the presence of IAF jets over Tawang and had to send in their own, then does this mean that this is the first time Indian jet planes were flying over tawang or its the first time Chinese were able to detect/counter them

Otherwise this should have been a routine thing for them and they would not have bothered

Check these two locations on Wikimapia - They are situated to north of the strategic Chumbi Valley along the main communication axis (S204) between rear areas in Tibet and PLA positions along India and Bhutan borders.

http://wikimapia.org/#lat=27.7255222&lon=89.1638561&z=19&l=0&m=b&tag=516
http://wikimapia.org/#lat=27.8349868&lon=89.1364117&z=16&l=0&m=h&v=1

Both these locations host radars - with the second one having multiple Radar domes. Both these sites are situated at an elevation of 14,500 - 15,500 feet. Now, the crest of the mountain range between India and Tibet (in this region) is in 16K-18K range - and IMO, this is the maximum height. Other areas on the crest are at lower height.

Considering that any Indian air offensive into Tibet will also have to cross this mountain crest, the Chinese radars placed here can pick up these formations and provide advance warning. For example, Tawang is itself at 8K+ height with surrounding mountain features in 11K-13K feet range...so, a fighter formation in the area is likely to be flying in excess of 15K - and can be picked up by Chinese radars in the area.

However, if you analyze the fact that Jaguars have been practicing flying in the area (flying incident in Sikkim) - my guess is that IAF has been working towards using natural features like mountains to mask their presence - at least in initial hours while trying to take out radars and other important areas.

Why can't IAF take out these radar sites with missiles like Brahmos when needed instead of going the Jaguar route ?

bcoz it is good to have options.

Why do you think it can't ..? Surely Missiles can not have practice run in Arunachal Pradesh...or Sikkim

The Jaguar route was speculation on my part - after all, front line fighters, and that too of the kind custom made for interdiction roles, like Jaguar, don't go and play in mountains for site seeing...

Coming to Brahmos - well, them sure can be a good option. Was checking on the distance of these radar domes linked by me - they are well within the range of Brahmos fired from the plains in Siliguri corridor...no need even to move into mountainous territory in Sikkim at all...firing units can be placed in the plains and used to hit targets deep behind the battlefield. Guess, we now know why the latest version of Brahmos has 'deep dive' feature with ability to hit targets in mountainous terrain - especially, those tucked away behind mountain ridges.

Moderators this thread has crossed 100 pages. Can we please archive this and start a successor thread to this please?

wong, the high quality goods made in China are designed and manufactured on behalf of foreign companies, like Apple, Sony, etc., who take a close interest in the quality of what comes out. No one complains about this stuff.

But that is not the right analogy for Chinese made weapon systems, which are China designed and China manufactured, with no foreign client to guide engineering design or quality control. That is why you have to resort to Copy and Paste (with errors).

China designed and China manufactured goods are poor quality and generally unreliable, just like your weapon systems. Its not a question of price; its a question of engineering design and manufacturing competence, where indigenous Chinese companies are frankly at the low end of the spectrum.

China exports all sorts of goods at both ends of the spectrum.I have seen a prada look alike and a prada (real stuff) both made in china looking the same for all but the discerning eyes.Same goes for electronic goods, you can get ripped off easily.High end headphones and look alikes (including packaging and documentation) are a good example., but OT ! I would prefer a made in India stuff if given an option ! , forget the chinese dollar store., not worth the time or money.If you see the label made in china ., avoid it if you can !

The exact same argument has been said against all the East Asian nations starting with Japan, etc. China will be no different than all the other East Asian nations and India will be no different than all the South Asian nations.

You are right India will be no different in future. China is ahead in faking right now. That is all that we are trying to say. If we talk about the present, China is ahead of India in faking and copying and making cheap low quality goods.

Wong,

Let us get back to the topic of this thread please.

Seriously, is there even one engine that is totally Chinese made? Not one that is produced under license, with a name change.

Some for an air craft, is there one which did not require any assistance?

Ever? Go back to the 50s if you want to.

TIA.

Folks, IF China was really self sufficient in design and development of cutting edge air crafts - read J-20/31 - then I very much doubt they would have gone back to Russia for Su-35s.

The J-20/31 are an achievement ONLY in relationship to where China was in say 2000 or so. Not even in relation to Su-35s!!!!

It is nice to have such advancement, better than none at all. But, it is a relative advancement that cannot sustain itself.Not to take anything away from them.

I guess that would include North Korea, the country which has most in common with China.

Yes, India is and will be no different than the other South Asian nations.

And yet China is ahead of your country in Everything. By Your Logic NK=CN>>>IN. And for things like literacy that in 100% true. NK Literacy >>> IN.

You are trying to change the subject. I was talking about Chinese competence in faking. China has no peer - I'll give you that.

Indeed Thats why the feel the need to fake Indian Drugs, bikes, etc. And pardon me if I don't trust the words and statistics of the Ponsy Republic of China.

Anyway for weapons, China is importing less and less and exporting more and more, while India is importing more and more but export almost nothing (or negligible).

This is an undeniable fact. India is importing weapons 3 times more than China with a huge and growing trade deficit, and a 1/3 defense budget, 1/4 economy, 1/8 national budget, 1/10 total goods export, and less than 1/50 military weapon export value of China.

Your defense industry really need to work a little bit harder. It is not sustainable.

^^India has options that China does not (thanks to embargoes). Combine this with a best that money can buy attitude inherent in much of the military establishment in India (Navy being notable exception), you can imagine why the local products do not get the required support. China not only cannot get enough stuff from outside, its generals also make money (illegally and legally) from local sourcing. So, u see the disparity in domestic production between China and India. That said, things are slowly changing and in a couple of decades the private sector in India will have entered the MIL-IND complex in a big way. So, enjoy it while it lasts.

I know my arguments are lost on the so called Chinese posters on this thread, but hey, I am stupid enough to feed a troll.

You mean like this

^^^ The Chinese have gotten so good at copying, now they are copying decades old explosions too.

No no.. India will be different that 'soothu' Asians (Chinese).

Absolutely. Apart from 'Organ harvest' of 'falun gong' china is good at everything mentioned below.

1. Burning
2. Electric Shock
3. Sexual Abuse
4. Psychiatric & Drug Abuse
5. Force-feeding
6. Savage beatings
7. Freezing and Exposing
8. Water Dungeon
9. Forced Abortions
10. “Death Bed”

got a taste of your own medicine, this is how you discuss things in "Chinese thread" by bringing in India, in every discussion.

This may be a norm in Juvenile forums that you visit, but not here.

^^^
Dude, grow up. Do you really want me to pull your country's world topping child and sexual abuse stats??

Ok. A quiz for you.

Who is the world's largest weapons importer till 2011?

A Chinese source for you.

Falling: China’s Share of Global Arms Imports



You 'sell' two-thirds of your weapons to pakistan and one-third of it North-Korea. And it is 'weapons exports' It can be called 'Weapons Aid'.



Another undeniable fact is, The great chinese still fakes Indian goods like medicines & bikes. When members here call the 'great chinese' fakers, cheaters you take offense of that 'fact'.



I agree. But you have posted it in the wrong threat. This thread is 'China military watch'.

You pull up another country's stats in "China" thread. Look at a mirror and say "Grow up"



Open your eyes wide and see the last part of my post.

Yes why not? That should give everyone who visits this thread an idea of what Chinese talk about when they are referring to their military "achievements"

Bring it on although I would prefer to see answers to

1. What is the intended role of the J-20 and J-31
2. Specs of J 20 and J-31

It is amazing that you Chinese can fake everything but are unwilling to give even a fake answer to the questions. Of course we will rip you a new one if you do that - so the choice is yours. You are taking the easy route and talking about Child sex. Loser.

OT:

Wong - rather than commenting about India - please read a suggested reading by your compatriot Yang Jisheng as to how the 'great' Mao killed 36 million Chinese Tombstone: The Great Chinese Famine, 1958-1962 - an eyewitness account. Interestingly, it was revealed only after 40 years! God knows what else is hidden. With leaders like Mao, who needs an enemy or nuclear weapons?

Oh! Forgot to mention this book may not be available in China - it is censored It is available in the US where 'Chinese guns are popular' by your claims

LOL Indians. Do you even read what you regurgitate. Mao personally killed 36 million people from 1958-1962?? Mao killed someone every 4.38 seconds for 5 years. It couldn't be the man made famine (something Indians should know plenty about).

He didn't say "personally", first learn to read properly.

^^^^
I'll learn Indian reading right after you learn sarcasm.

Okay, so Chinese famines are Mao's fault. Who do Indians blame for your many, many famines??
Shiva, Gandhi, "Britishers" or Mao too??

Why exactly are people arguing with this moron? He seems like one of the brain washed morons who thinks PN bought the mediocre F-22p's coz they are value for money and not because they scrapped at the bottom of the barrel of every western navy before finally settling for the chinese junk.

Now supel dupel china wants space collaboration with poor SDRE

http://www.kurzweilai.net/china-propose ... with-india

Why not tallel than mountain fliend???

Wong, I did not want to embarrass you so much. But it would be better if you just answered Shiv's simple question - specs on J-15s, J-31s, etc. You seem to be answering everything else but that!

Nothing has changed in China - afaik, it has only gone worse. Here is the gist of the book:



Your favorite Americans have to say this about your Country (of course, they like Chinese guns too!):

That very well may be true. But the very, very bottom of the barrel, right under the maggots, is your junk.

LOL. China needs India's help in space. Do you really believe that??? Seriously?