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PostPosted: 01 Dec 2012 11:01 
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Singha, I think there was 1 test of Shaheen(m-9) over the sea.

I don't the fear is American recovery of parts, the fear is the Missile not adhereing to path or range notified in the Notam and causing H&D loss. Khan and everybody knows what is needed to be known

Imagime telling the average abdul Ghauri has a range of 1300Km and Notam was issued for 400KM or it internationally verifiable that the missile veered of the path given in the Notam. Such H&D loss would be tremendrous blow for the PA, thats why Pakistan does not have any failures in its Missile tests for the last 15 years.

Even the public disclosure in the media of Shaheen 1A 1500km test as claimed by PA flew over 673KM based on our ABM radar tracking caused huge Khujli to the PA brass.

And remember Painted Missiles bought in shady deals you have 3 contraints if a missile test fails publically 1) You have bought a limited number, so can't test repeats just to satisfy public H&D, replacements will extract a heavy price

2) You dont know what went wrong in the tests and can't be seen pubically having CHinese and N. Korean engineers investigating the cause or reason for the failure, anther big blow to H&D,

3) Some abdul in Paki will try to hold those engineers for ransom, even before this test, some Chinese engineers and equipment or soem obcure civilian programme was damaged and Sindh Governer was called in, I can bet my bottom dollar it had something to do with this test.


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PostPosted: 01 Dec 2012 13:09 
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Quote:
Mansoor Ahmed, a lecturer in the Department of Defence and Strategic Studies at Quaid-e-Azam University here, said the Ghauri is not a particularly effective weapon or suited to Pakistan’s operational requirement.


Quote:
Despite being announced as a success, the first test of the missile on April 6, 1998, was a failure, with the missile burning up on re-entry. It had to be heavily redesigned and improved by the National Engineering and Scientific Commission, and the National Defense Complex, before it could enter service again.


http://www.defensenews.com/article/2012 ... y=nav|head


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PostPosted: 01 Dec 2012 13:28 
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Interesting Article.

Quote:
Fourteen aircraft of Pakistan Air Force (PAF) have been destroyed or damaged in thirteen cases of aircraft crashes, fire eruption or emergency landings in over a year but the inquiry report of none of these incidents has come to light till date


Quote:
TheNation, Air Commodore (r) Ali Raza, said that the main cause of the PAF aircraft crashes were technical lapses. “I think the repeated aircraft crash incidents are a result of the poor technical and engineering oversight. The PAF is extensively engaged in the war on terror on the Western border. This kind of operational engagement requires hectic operational preparedness that involves excessive professional training and other standby arrangements. This could be a constraint for effective aircraft maintenance and repair



Technical lapses would have seen F 16's falling from the sky (unless not being reported). Perhaps there is an indication of a critical state of ageing hardware. Matters could be worse in years to come.

http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news- ... -in-a-year


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PostPosted: 01 Dec 2012 13:34 
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ghauri and scud share the same genes I think via different routes. scuds were known for breaking up in the terminal phase, a fact which unexpectedly made it more difficult to intercept for the PAC-1 missiles in desert storm...one of them leaked through and KIA some 29 people in a barracks.

its the shaheen family based on more modern DF-xx line that is likely to work.


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PostPosted: 01 Dec 2012 14:14 
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Some crap from the farticle which is linked in Ganesh_S post

Quote:
But the Ghauri is cheaper than solid-fueled missiles, and therefore more expendable when testing launch and control systems, Ahmed said, and it may offer Pakistan a “possible springboard for a space launch vehicle,” akin to the British Blue Streak ballistic missile.



As well accepting some facts

Quote:
“Unlike solid-fueled missiles, liquid-fueled ballistic missiles cannot store the fuel for long periods and have to be refueled prior to launch, which takes several hours, thus making them vulnerable to first strikes,” said Ahmed, an expert on Pakistan’s nuclear program and its delivery systems. “Given the relative lack of Pakistan’s strategic depth, such systems are not the first choice in missile systems for nuclear warhead delivery, which explains why the Ghauri remains the only liquid-fueled system in its missile inventory.”

Despite being announced as a success, the first test of the missile on April 6, 1998, was a failure, with the missile burning up on re-entry.




It seems the North Korean missiles are duds for H&D purpose of range, it is the M-9's which have Delhi in crosshairs which consist of the Paki deterent.


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PostPosted: 01 Dec 2012 14:41 
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Pakistan fires its Ghauri missiles (built at Kahuta) from the Maksood Testing Range next to Jhelum Cantt in Northern Pakistan. Their landing site is usually the sonmiani testing range west of Karachi or the Thal Firing range in central punjab. The flight path distance is 1000 Km only.

Now assuming they fired this missile from the Maksood firing range, just look at what all places lie in the missile's path!

From North to South:
1. Sargodha airforce base
2. Khushab Nuclear Reactors
3. Thal firing range
4. Shorkot, Jhang
5. Multan & the Chemical Plant complex (U extraction)
6. Sukkur
7. Karachi is very close

Also very close to the flight path are the cities of:
1. Faisalabad
2. Rahimyar khan.

Pakistan has the following airbases with radars to possibly track the missile in the flight path, or bear the brunt of the impact - AoA:
1. Sargodha
2. Rafiqui, shorkot
3. Rahimyarkhan
4. Sukkur
5. Karachi
etc etc.
Image

So this is the "SAFE ZONE" that the pak fauj was describing in the missile path: Includes Nuclear reactors, Uranium extraction plants, heavily populated cities, airbases with weapons storages etc.

Pakistan-se-zinda-bhaag


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PostPosted: 01 Dec 2012 14:45 
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Also, if the missile disintegrated and fell at Dadu, and was fired from Jhelum, the range of the missile is 850-880 km only.

A test failure for sure.


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PostPosted: 01 Dec 2012 14:54 
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WTF ! They are firing their missiles with flight path over populated land ? There is no law against it ?


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PostPosted: 01 Dec 2012 14:57 
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Location: Desh ke baarei mei sochna shuru karo. Soch badlo, desh badlega!
more funnier...a nuke site and chem site is in the path


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PostPosted: 01 Dec 2012 15:24 
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jamwal wrote:
WTF ! They are firing their missiles with flight path over populated land ? There is no law against it ?


Its much safer where only pakis die than allowing International shipping and aircraft be put at risk by countries firing missiles without knowing how they work.


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PostPosted: 01 Dec 2012 17:14 
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Presumably they use the american tpq77 radars in these airbases to track the test.


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PostPosted: 01 Dec 2012 20:44 
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^ :D
Hatf-V/Ghauri test fails, missile crashes in Pakistani village

Quote:
Pakistan’s latest missile test failed when the Hatf V/Ghauri deviated significantly from its trajectory before crashing into the Pakistani village of Dadu

The missile was on course till first stage separation. Thereafter, the tail end containing the flight control computer and boosters for trajectory correction broke off from the main body and landed in Dadu.


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PostPosted: 01 Dec 2012 20:50 
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ankitash wrote:
^ :D
Hatf-V/Ghauri test fails, missile crashes in Pakistani village

quote]

The article has some falicies

Quote:
The premature announcement of a “successful test” implies that contact with the missile was lost. Later, ISPR made a hasty press release when reports of “mysterious metallic objects” started appearing in local newspapers.

quote]


These are N Korean Missiles, Pakistan neither has the radar to track the BM nor is thier any telementry data, so the Pakistani miltary would have known something is wrong only once the villagers reported the matter and it became media hysteria whether it was a Message from Allah, otherwise if it fell on Hills in Balushistan nobody would have known what happenned.


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PostPosted: 01 Dec 2012 21:24 
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TWIW

For long there's a gup-shup doing rounds in dilli durbar, all TSPian missiles have a ''range-limit'' akin ''speed-limit'' courtesy the Chinni Bandhus. Short range ok but long range big no no for Chinis don't want to see a mushroom cloud in their own Han kingdom that too with their own maal but painted green . Ever wonder why NoKos too have a range limit. Uncle Han sadly has no perceived insurance provider other than itself or himself or herself or whatever.


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PostPosted: 01 Dec 2012 22:26 
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krishnan wrote:
more funnier...a nuke site and chem site is in the path


India should be concerned as some X lab in Pakistan will recover the pieces and reverse engineer to produce a new missile :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: 01 Dec 2012 23:12 
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Aditya G wrote:
krishnan wrote:
more funnier...a nuke site and chem site is in the path


India should be concerned as some X lab in Pakistan will recover the pieces and reverse engineer to produce a new missile :mrgreen:


no worries they will produce crap only from crap :D


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PostPosted: 01 Dec 2012 23:17 
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With all those nice targets along the missile flight path and passing close to the Indian border, we should find ways to make them fall on these locations, their ability to track the missile in its mid phase is questionable


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PostPosted: 02 Dec 2012 00:33 
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Quote:
The missile was on course till first stage separation. Thereafter, the section containing the flight control computer and boosters for trajectory correction broke off from the main body and landed in Dadu.


It seems there was a disagreement between the computer and the rest of the mijjile.
The computer was being too logical and was exiled.
The mijjile (belonging to the PA) was doing its own thing as usual ... :mrgreen:

--Ashish


Last edited by Misraji on 02 Dec 2012 01:50, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 02 Dec 2012 01:19 
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MAR-1 anti radiation missile in PAF inventory:

http://i.imgur.com/3fe1O.jpg

And what looks like a runway denial weapon:

http://i.imgur.com/V216G.jpg


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PostPosted: 02 Dec 2012 11:57 
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They keep purchasing odds and ends from brazil and the leftover denel of south africa.

They cannot afford american or french weapons unless offered free under goat, for cost reasons. And cheen weapons you know how great they are by paki reluctance.


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PostPosted: 02 Dec 2012 13:20 
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Misraji wrote:

It seems there was a disagreement between the computer and the rest of the mijjile.


Maybe there were some Ahmedi or Shia parts? Need to check the manufacturing and launch personnel for Ahmedis and Shias and kill a couple to play it safe.


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PostPosted: 02 Dec 2012 18:43 
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Singha wrote:
They keep purchasing odds and ends from brazil and the leftover denel of south africa..


True, but we need to look at the end result. After the depths of ~1990 - 2005, PAF has:

1. AEW
2. IFR
3. BVR AAMs
4. BVR land attack missiles
- Tactical (MAR-1, H4)
- Strategic
5. ACMI range (IIRC)
6. Range of LGBs
7. New fleet of advanced F-16s
8. Young JF-17 fleet that has replaced legacy MiG-19 and Fantans


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PostPosted: 03 Dec 2012 15:37 
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Location: On board Coobsat. Fanatically chasing MOM.
only variety not quantity. Like a beggar who has variety of denominations.


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PostPosted: 03 Dec 2012 17:04 
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Sorry, for the size and requirements PAF has pretty big fleet. Big Enough for the IAF not to get AIr dominance and International intervention.

they have remarkbly upgraded capability in the last 7 years.


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PostPosted: 03 Dec 2012 18:24 
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Their mirage3 , mirage5 and f6/f7 fleet are obsolete and unable to cope with modernized iaf in a pny format.

F solah seems capped at 72 max how apt

Bandar isnt really panning out to be the mini rafale that was expected.

We are going to roll them over and pound them in a cagefight and they know it.

And while we are loading up on akash and spyder and funded mrsam, their cupboard is bare as usual barring vshorads.


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PostPosted: 04 Dec 2012 01:02 
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Ghauri incident shows that pakistan itself is a victim of missile proliferation and its people suffer the most.

One suspect this was not the first time that the xerox-maal did not work, since their "testing" news releases *never* says any details of accuracy, terminal videos etc. Only this time, it leaked out, due to some reasons beyond their control.

Noko got fizzle-bums from bakis and bakis got dud mijjiles from Noko. Both their tests are an embarrassment to self. "Pax Cheenikaya" at its best


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PostPosted: 04 Dec 2012 02:02 
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Dud Gauri parts that fell apart...

can anyone ID which part of the missile it is...?

Image


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PostPosted: 04 Dec 2012 07:19 
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An Usman Ansari writing in Defense News reports that the Ghauri / Hatf V ballistic missile test of November 28, 2012 was a failure, a fact that is being covered up the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s military.

Also reports that the first 1998 test of the Ghauri aka Hatf V was a failure that led to a missile breakup with debris falling in Iran:

Pakistani Ballistic Missile Test Failed


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PostPosted: 04 Dec 2012 07:43 
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arun wrote:
An Usman Ansari writing in Defense News reports that the Ghauri / Hatf V ballistic missile test of November 28, 2012 was a failure, a fact that is being covered up the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s military.

Also reports that the first 1998 test of the Ghauri aka Hatf V was a failure that led to a missile breakup with debris falling in Iran:

Pakistani Ballistic Missile Test Failed


Lots of info here. the launch was possibly from Pakjab, south of Islamabad. It is one stage as Wiki says. Something has broken up over Sindh.


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PostPosted: 04 Dec 2012 09:44 
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So Pakis once they launch it do not know whether it will to go to Sindh or Baluchistan


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PostPosted: 04 Dec 2012 10:16 
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Prithwiraj wrote:
Dud Gauri parts that fell apart...

can anyone ID which part of the missile it is...?



Hatf V is North Korean Nodong

Image
Nodong

Image
Ghauri /Hatf V


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PostPosted: 04 Dec 2012 10:21 
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Prithwiraj wrote:
Dud Gauri parts that fell apart...

can anyone ID which part of the missile it is...?

Image


Pathetic Quality control wrt cabling. A local electrician could do a better job.


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PostPosted: 04 Dec 2012 18:57 
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Even Iranians are buying Nodong missiles from NK

http://www.asian-defence.com/2012/12/ir ... .html#more


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PostPosted: 04 Dec 2012 19:09 
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Location: छिछला पानी में (In shallow waters)
All non-purest are shot dead in pakistan so this leaves it the work of the purest alone.
Escalation : Links between violent sectarian groups and the Pakistani Taliban are growing
Quote:
Before the blasts, death squads in Karachi and the western city of Quetta tracked down and shot doctors, lawyers and other professionals, the educated elite of the Shia community.

Notice the "Before the blasts" part, too.


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PostPosted: 04 Dec 2012 20:28 
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What takes the cake, it was the failed Ghauri test April 1998 which finally convinced the indian leadership that the Shakti tests need to be undertaken and the Agni development of missiles were required. Looks Khan and Cheens seriously allowed Munna to go too far which finally made reality dawn on us.


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PostPosted: 04 Dec 2012 21:08 
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Prithwiraj wrote:
Dud Gauri parts that fell apart...

can anyone ID which part of the missile it is...?

Image


The picture on the left is a section of the fuel tank. Not sure about the one of the right but the level of plumbing suggests sections above the motor combustor. The missile really broke up at multiple points here.


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PostPosted: 05 Dec 2012 00:20 
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Well it is keeping in line with noko chinese quality control.


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PostPosted: 05 Dec 2012 03:54 
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Looks like the vehicle broke up during the descent phase if it made it till Dadu from Jhelum. Comments about stage separation are nonsense for single stage vehicle.
Most likely the vehicle descended sideways instead of nose first and thus broke up. Could be a wiring short in the flight computer leading to the sideways descent.


The right hand picture is the controls. Add the inof that the motor section fell near Dadu. And the mess of wire without wrapping into a cable shows shorts are easy to occur.

So big picture we know of three failures of this bird so far?
First flight, some other with debris in Iran(how did that happen? Sounds like jathethe Japan pounch gaye Cheen) and this one? Out of 14 flights?


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PostPosted: 05 Dec 2012 06:44 
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Hmmm who are we to judge the super ijlamic mijjile. There waj no failure. The First one was a controlled explosion using djinn tecknik and the second one waj transfer of technology to ijlamic birathers of I-ran. Thij breaking up technik demonstrated is a super duper way of defeating SDRE ABM. :rotfl:


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PostPosted: 05 Dec 2012 07:23 
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Even during one of the infrequent democratic interregnums, the military of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan shows that when all is said and done they are the ultimate boss of the country and can bamboozle any civilian:

Quote:
MI goes door-to-door to get information on journalists

By Mariana Baabar
Wednesday, December 05, 2012
From Print Edition

ISLAMABAD: The Military Intelligence (MI) has initiated a country wide exercise, where they are knocking at the doors of journalists and columnists seeking help in providing them details about themselves in a two-page form in Urdu, for what they say is a verification process. …………………..

It is indeed shocking at the details that the MI is interested in. Apart from the journalist’s name, father’s name, CNIC number and other details easily available from Nadra, it was also obligatory to specify one’s religion and whether one was a Sunni or Shia. If you wished to put Islam in the desired column it was not enough. Details were needed whether one had any strong affiliation with any religious group and if one had been involved in any illegal activity. …………………

The questionnaire, amongst other things, wanted details of spouse, children and their contacts and activities. Contacts and details of brothers but sisters were not needed. The MI also wants to know which foreigners were the journalists meeting and what kind of information exchanged.

Details of cars owned and their details, bank account numbers and their details, tax return number, passport details, the list is endless. ………………….


Read it all in The News:

MI goes door-to-door to get information on journalists


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