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PostPosted: 28 Nov 2012 16:22 
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Pratyush wrote:
RajitO wrote:

As a helo carrier. in addition to that, keeping in view, that fact the Vik will enter service by 2014 at the latest and the IAC by 2017, it makes no sense to buy a ship of such a limited utility.
.


Where are you getting 2017 from when AKA himself is sweating and unusually for him is warning the PSU shipyard that the new date of 2018 better be honored!

http://www.business-standard.com/generalnews/news/no-more-delay-in-deliveryindigenous-aircraft-careerantony/81347/


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PostPosted: 28 Nov 2012 16:38 
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Sigh........

2017/2018, how is the difference of 1 year going to make the second hand Spanish ship useful for the Indian navy, in the absence of a useful air group?


Also, when the IN is explicitly looking for 4 Multi role support ship, that can also be used as a helo carriers. As mentioned in the last page of this thread. What role will a second hand Helo carrier play in that fleet and for how long. Cause I am sure that, IN will not be buying the VTOL F 35 to make the second hand ship useful to it.

Please try to understand, when you propose, that a second hand weapon or a system be integrated in the armed forces. You must be clear about the role that is sought to be filled up, what kind of resources that will be consumed, and how it will function within the setup of the Indian armed forces in general.

Considering the investments made and planned by the IN on the Air groups, the N-LCA, and the 4 proposed Helo carriers, (One of the contending designes is Sapnish BTW,) where do you think a small second hand Helo carrier brought from Spain will fit.


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PostPosted: 28 Nov 2012 22:34 
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With lotsa experience, Indian shipyards take 10+ years to make a destroyer so I can extrapolate and say an Aircraft carrier would take 20+ year to build in an Indian shipyard. Forget anything war worthy named IAC in IN services before 2025. Would love a surprise if Kochin can deliver it.

10 years it took Russians to repair and rebuild an existing carrier, not sure when it'll be inservice. Chinese took 8 years restart and launch sea trials of another scrapped Russian aircraft carrier. Would take anothe 10 years before it gets ready for actual combat patrol.

The problem IMO is that MoD babus always buy this over optimistic BS from production and design teams. They need to bring-in, out-side experts as project consulatants for vetting these project proposals until the local MIC acquires skills to prepare these project plans properly and honestly.


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PostPosted: 29 Nov 2012 10:26 
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From Livefist:
Quote:
Kalinigrad.ru reports that India's brand new stealth frigate INS Tarkash hit a mooring wall while departing the quay recently at the Yantar shipyard where it was built. The report quotes Yantar officials as saying that the ship did not suffer serious damage, and has continued its journey.


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PostPosted: 01 Dec 2012 22:21 
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http://www.bizxwires.com/?p=19177

Quote:
Bharat Heavy Electricals (BHEL) will produce 127 mm naval guns post successfully manufacturing 80 mm naval guns for the past two years. In this regard, the Haridwar unit of the company had already signed a contract with the union government. ...


8)


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PostPosted: 02 Dec 2012 03:17 
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^^^^ one word Vulcano baby! 8)


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PostPosted: 02 Dec 2012 09:14 
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I guess this must be the one they are getting -


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PostPosted: 02 Dec 2012 12:07 
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http://www.deccanherald.com/content/295 ... -flat.html

Quote:
Navy’s sonar project falls flat; draws flak from CAG
Kalyan Ray, New Delhi, Dec 1, 2012, DHNS:

Warning system has been installed in two subs in 10 yrs

Indigenous sonar has been installed in only two operational submarines in the last 10 years, despite the manufacturer, the Bharat Electronics Ltd, agreeing to complete the job by 2007.

Developed by the Naval Physical and Oceanography Laboratory (NPOL), Kochi, the USHUS sonar can detect both ships and submarines from a few kilometers. The Defence Research and Development Organisation – the parent body of NPOL – had claimed that it is one of the best in the world.

The technology for which NOPL received a DRDO award from Prime Minister Manmohan Singh was transferred to BEL, with whom the Defence Ministry had inked a Rs 167 crore contract to supply and commission the new age sonars for four Kilo class submarines between March 2003 and 2007.

Till date, the sonar has been installed in only three submarines, of which two have completed sea-acceptance trial.

Moreover, the Navy did not derive any tangible benefit from the Rs 167.64 crore investment because much of the sonars’ technical life has already expired, the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) said in its report tabled in Parliament on Thursday.
While the CAG did not identify the submarine or the sonar in its report, sources told Deccan Herald that the audit watchdog had reviewed the USHUS project.

The sonar was installed in two submarines in 2005, of which one completed sea trial in January 2011.

Delay in fitting

In 2008, it was installed in the third submarine that completed the trial in December 2011. The instrument has not yet been fitted in the fourth submarine.

At present, the Navy has 11 operational submarines, of which four to five are docked at shipyards at any given point of time for maintenance.

The first batch of new submarines (Project-75) has been delayed by three years.
The first Scorpene submarine, being manufactured at the Mazagaon Dock Ltd in Mumbai, will be ready by 2015 and the entire fleet of six submarines should be inducted by 2018.

The future of the second assembly line (Project-75I) hangs in balance. After receiving initial approval from the Defence Ministry in 2010, P-75I is stuck due to an improvisation made by the Navy in the original proposal, sources said.


Oh dear,yet another delay by a PSU.When will it ever end! Add to this the CAG's findings about the dumping of offsets in the C-17 and P-8 deals favouring Boeing (front page Ind.Exp.today),where "seminars",etc. where supposed to be the equiv. of offsets,the rot in the MOD gets more exposed by the day.


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PostPosted: 04 Dec 2012 05:12 
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Location: On board Coobsat. Fanatically chasing MOM.
Happy Navy Day guys.


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PostPosted: 04 Dec 2012 21:11 
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http://idrw.org/?p=16230#more-16230

Quote:
On future inductions in the force in the next one year, he said, “In 2013, we expect to induct one Kolkata-class destroyer, one P-28 Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) Corvette, one Catamaran Hull Survey Vessel, one Offshore Patrol Vessel and sixteen Fast Interceptor Craft (FIC).


Image
all three Kolkata class destroyers found side-by-side at different stages of build... well this image was found on a paki-def forum :( (sorry if this image was posted earlier on this thread or any other.)


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PostPosted: 05 Dec 2012 01:05 
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That is picture from Ajai Shukla ... This picture is actually more than an year old.

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2012/08/navys-wavering-delaying-warships-by.html


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PostPosted: 05 Dec 2012 04:10 
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Philip wrote:
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/295762/navys-sonar-project-falls-flat.html

Quote:
Navy’s sonar project falls flat; draws flak from CAG
Kalyan Ray, New Delhi, Dec 1, 2012, DHNS:

Warning system has been installed in two subs in 10 yrs

Indigenous sonar has been installed in only two operational submarines in the last 10 years, despite the manufacturer, the Bharat Electronics Ltd, agreeing to complete the job by 2007.

Developed by the Naval Physical and Oceanography Laboratory (NPOL), Kochi, the USHUS sonar can detect both ships and submarines from a few kilometers. The Defence Research and Development Organisation – the parent body of NPOL – had claimed that it is one of the best in the world.

The technology for which NOPL received a DRDO award from Prime Minister Manmohan Singh was transferred to BEL, with whom the Defence Ministry had inked a Rs 167 crore contract to supply and commission the new age sonars for four Kilo class submarines between March 2003 and 2007.

Till date, the sonar has been installed in only three submarines, of which two have completed sea-acceptance trial.

Moreover, the Navy did not derive any tangible benefit from the Rs 167.64 crore investment because much of the sonars’ technical life has already expired, the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) said in its report tabled in Parliament on Thursday.
While the CAG did not identify the submarine or the sonar in its report, sources told Deccan Herald that the audit watchdog had reviewed the USHUS project.

The sonar was installed in two submarines in 2005, of which one completed sea trial in January 2011.

Delay in fitting

In 2008, it was installed in the third submarine that completed the trial in December 2011. The instrument has not yet been fitted in the fourth submarine.

At present, the Navy has 11 operational submarines, of which four to five are docked at shipyards at any given point of time for maintenance.

The first batch of new submarines (Project-75) has been delayed by three years.
The first Scorpene submarine, being manufactured at the Mazagaon Dock Ltd in Mumbai, will be ready by 2015 and the entire fleet of six submarines should be inducted by 2018.

The future of the second assembly line (Project-75I) hangs in balance. After receiving initial approval from the Defence Ministry in 2010, P-75I is stuck due to an improvisation made by the Navy in the original proposal, sources said.


Oh dear,yet another delay by a PSU.When will it ever end! Add to this the CAG's findings about the dumping of offsets in the C-17 and P-8 deals favouring Boeing (front page Ind.Exp.today),where "seminars",etc. where supposed to be the equiv. of offsets,the rot in the MOD gets more exposed by the day.


The delay was not in production or installation of sonar system but in passing the sea trials. These teething troubles are common all over the world in varying degree. Although 5 years to complete the sea trial is a big streatch. Hopefully repeat orders will get executed much faster.


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PostPosted: 05 Dec 2012 09:00 
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Did we exercise options for additional Scorpene submarines under P75 ? I recall reading that we did (for 3 additional subs), but the above report is still about the original 6.


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PostPosted: 05 Dec 2012 21:51 
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Can anyone explain this?

Quote:
The Defence Minister witnessed INS Shivalik execute, various evolutions including a 'surface gun shoot' and Jackstay with INS Shakti in copy book fashion.


http://pib.nic.in/newsite/erelease.aspx?relid=80189


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PostPosted: 05 Dec 2012 22:06 
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Location: Desh ke baarei mei sochna shuru karo. Soch badlo, desh badlega!
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PostPosted: 06 Dec 2012 01:48 
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http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=19802

hope the RFP for the P75I is out soon. Hope its the U216 . German subs are the best :) . Though they wont bring much to the nuclear table .


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PostPosted: 06 Dec 2012 10:53 
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http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-12-05/india/35619256_1_border-dispute-south-china-sea-indian-naval-ships

When can we see a gag order from PMO against pusillanimity masquerading as tact like in the case of our babu-turned NSA.


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PostPosted: 06 Dec 2012 11:37 
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U216 does not fit our requirement because it is vaporware unlike soryu. Think about it, the only nation thats likely to purchase it is aus. Hdw u214 didnt get good reviews at all. Germans have no real life exp in open ocean asw unlike japan whose oyashio and now soryu did it, has a huge fleet of asw ships and lrmp as well. Plus its tech will be optimized for the pacific ocean :twisted: unlike the baltic sea :((

Not to say the soryu is perfect but its user has more exp in long range big subs, it is in service in jmsdf and hooking up with japan is far more useful strategically than germany.

The pragmatic choice is soryu with nirbhay, harpoon and slam. Inshallah it will give a ssk capable of sortieing from the andamans around indonesia gaps into the big lizards backyard.

Ps..no brahmos, but with nirbhay doesnt matter.


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PostPosted: 06 Dec 2012 11:44 
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Quote:
Inshallah it will give a ssk capable of sortieing from the andamans around indonesia gaps into the big lizards backyard.


Ah.. Camh Ranh Bay would be better. After all, don't the Vietnamese want their folks to be trained on their Kilos at INS Satavahana ?

Slipping in a few brown skinned yindoos masquerading as "Saigon Chettiars" is not very difficult.. Kilo is Kilo, all you need is to paint a new flag on it.


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PostPosted: 06 Dec 2012 11:47 
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Singha wrote:
U216 does not fit our requirement because it is vaporware unlike soryu. Think about it, the only nation thats likely to purchase it is aus. Hdw u214 didnt get good reviews at all. Germans have no real life exp in open ocean asw unlike japan whose oyashio and now soryu did it, has a huge fleet of asw ships and lrmp as well. Plus its tech will be optimized for the pacific ocean :twisted: unlike the baltic sea :((

Not to say the soryu is perfect but its user has more exp in long range big subs, it is in service in jmsdf and hooking up with japan is far more useful strategically than germany.

The pragmatic choice is soryu with nirbhay, harpoon and slam. Inshallah it will give a ssk capable of sortieing from the andamans around indonesia gaps into the big lizards backyard.

Ps..no brahmos, but with nirbhay doesnt matter.


My gut feel is when we pay the french for scorpene it is for submarine related Tech used in our Nuke subs as well. Thats why this process can't be as open as it should be.


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PostPosted: 06 Dec 2012 12:19 
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A ssk made of barracuda ssn would work as well. But need lots of rework methinks.


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PostPosted: 06 Dec 2012 16:00 
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While the members are busy salivating the purchase of the next batch for IMFS (Indian Made Foriegn Sub), they seem to have totally forgotten that the Scorpean is still a good 3 years away, at minimum, in the mean while the foxtrots are all gone, and the the early Kilos and the 209s are approaching the end of service lives.

The SUB fleet is being gutted by the delays in the sub program.


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PostPosted: 06 Dec 2012 21:27 
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IMFS = thats one abbv for the records! 8)


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PostPosted: 06 Dec 2012 23:33 
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The P75I should be the last IMFS ;) Hope the GOI dosent squander the capabilites built up. The focus will shift to nuke subs from now on anyway- 25 is the number being thrown around... :-o :-o :-o


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PostPosted: 07 Dec 2012 00:04 
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Obvious choice for P-75I would be S80 with its similarity with P75


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PostPosted: 07 Dec 2012 06:50 
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it may be a upsized scorpene but made by Izar not DCN and the internal systems incl the AIP are totally different. even the weapons are different. plus best case delivery if spain budget doesnt implode is 2015. other than looks nothing is common. the combat system is likely different too.

so Soryu is a lot more pragmatic.

imo if we didnt have such a fetish for sickularism and global tenders, and being a equal-opportunity bigot, we'd have tied up with the scorpene makers DCN *5 years ago* to come up with a 2x scorpene sized ocean going desi Soryu design using much the same internal parts , tools, training processes and have it ready for production here after the initial lot of Scorpene or start it in parallel at another place seeding it from the trained pool of scorpene workmen initially.

it is very unlikely UNLESS YOU HAVE THE INDUSTRY to make everything in house (germany, france, USA) that you will get a best of mixed breed pup with the best sensors, best weapons, best powerplant, best hull, best AIP sourced from N sources....it just doesnt work due to commercial and political situation.

instead we continue to make a hash of it while Aus is atleast in serious talks with U216 and Soryu makers.

its 10+ yrs since Kargil and I have heard the P75I myth since then. in between Cheen has produced and purchased a bunch of Kilo 636, produced multiple Yuan subs, produced some Jin and Shang class nuclear subs as well.

hope to see and end to this mess one way or another soon...hopefully with a "surprise" DCN scorpene2 design we have secretly funded, plus our SSN class after arihant being Le Baraccuda Indicus fish.


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PostPosted: 07 Dec 2012 13:17 
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CCS clears proposal for Karwar naval base expansion

Quote:
overnment today cleared proposals worth over Rs13,000 crore for a major expansion of the strategic Naval air base at Karwar where the Russian-origin aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov will be berthed and raising a new battalion of Sikkim Scouts for the Army.

The proposals were cleared at a meeting of the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) chaired by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh here, Navy sources said.

Under the plan, Navy will carry out the expansion of the Karwar base on the country’s western sea board in Karnataka where it will berth Admiral Gorshkov, now rechristened INS Vikramaditya, and carry out military aircraft operations. The aircraft carrier is expected to join the Navy next year end. It plans to deploy the Scorpene submarines and a number of surface ships at the base after the completion of the over Rs 10,000 crore project at Karwar.

Codenamed Project Seabird Phase IIA, the work will involve construction of a wide range of new facilities and augmentation of certain existing facilities, they said.As per the plans, the Navy will be able to base around 30 major warships at Karwar after the completion of Phase-IIA by 2017-18.

It is also planning to establish a Naval Air Station there for deploying fixed and rotary wing ship-based military aircraft, they said. Project Seabird has been dogged by long delays, fund crunches and truncated clearances since it was first approved in 1985 at an initial cost of Rs350 crore. Phase-I, which was completed at a cost of Rs2,629 crore in 2005-06, has enabled the Navy to base more than 15 warships at Karwar.


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PostPosted: 07 Dec 2012 13:21 
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India nears catapult decision for second indigenous carrier (IAC 2 )

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India is in the process of deciding whether its second indigenous aircraft carrier will be equipped with catapults.

The vessel, referred to within New Delhi naval circles as IAC 2 (indigenous aircraft carrier 2), will follow IAC 1, which is now being built in Kochi shipyard.

IAC 2 is envisaged as a far larger warship – with a displacement of approximately 60,000t – and could enter the fleet within 10 to 15 years. Senior leaders within the navy are leaning toward deploying this ship with catapults, sources say, with a decision on whether to integrate steam catapults or an electromagnetic aircraft launch system to come as soon as July 2013. New Delhi is also considering the possibility of making IAC 2 a nuclear-powered vessel.

Indian navy plans call for a three-carrier fleet, with the service’s only current example, the Viraat, to be retired in the coming years. This would allow one carrier to be stationed on each of India’s coasts, while the third would undergo repairs or perform other duties such as training.

The Vikramaditya was supposed to have been delivered this month, but problems with the ship’s propulsion system have reportedly delayed this until the second half of 2013. Prior to the emergence of these issues, Russian pilots in RAC MiG-29K/KUB aircraft conducted successful flight tests from the ship.

Through the use of catapults, IAC 2 would be able to operate larger, more powerful aircraft, such as the Dassault Rafale - the apparent winner of the Indian air force’s medium multirole combat aircraft requirement – or the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet.

Catapults would reduce the deck space required for launching aircraft, while allowing them to carry more fuel and heavier payloads. Ramp-assisted operations require long take-off runs, and involve fighters burning considerable fuel just to get airborne.

The addition of catapults would also allow IAC 2 to operate fixed-wing airborne early warning and control system and battle management aircraft, such as Northrop Grumman’s E-2D Hawkeye, providing the fleet with far greater situational awareness than helicopter-borne surveillance equipment.


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PostPosted: 07 Dec 2012 15:54 
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Quote:
Through the use of catapults, IAC 2 would be able to operate larger, more powerful aircraft, such as the Dassault Rafale - the apparent winner of the Indian air force’s medium multirole combat aircraft requirement – or the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet.

That sounds rather lame. RafaleM is definitely neither larger nor more powerful than MiG and F-18 is just marginaly so. You can still go with the ski-jump, all you need is just a bigger carrier (which is apparently to be).


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PostPosted: 07 Dec 2012 16:05 
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payload will be hurt esp for a2g strike missions with heavy ordnance like those triple racked AASM - rafale could carry a centerline fuel tank, and 12 AASM250 + 2 wingtip Mica + max internal fuel perhaps with the catapult but not ski jump.

but in a binary case, I don't think Hawkeyes can work with Ski jumps...never been tested for sure.


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PostPosted: 07 Dec 2012 17:03 
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nits wrote:
India nears catapult decision for second indigenous carrier (IAC 2 )

Quote:
India is in the process of deciding whether its second indigenous aircraft carrier will be equipped with catapults.

The vessel, referred to within New Delhi naval circles as IAC 2 (indigenous aircraft carrier 2), will follow IAC 1, which is now being built in Kochi shipyard.

IAC 2 is envisaged as a far larger warship – with a displacement of approximately 60,000tand could enter the fleet within 10 to 15 years. Senior leaders within the navy are leaning toward deploying this ship with catapults, sources say, with a decision on whether to integrate steam catapults or an electromagnetic aircraft launch system to come as soon as July 2013. New Delhi is also considering the possibility of making IAC 2 a nuclear-powered vessel.

Indian navy plans call for a three-carrier fleet, with the service’s only current example, the Viraat, to be retired in the coming years. This would allow one carrier to be stationed on each of India’s coasts, while the third would undergo repairs or perform other duties such as training.



1. There needs to be a reality check on the timeline. For IAC 2 to enter the fleet in 15 years (2027) means the design for it must be finalized by 2015. Right now it looks as if just the GSQR is being decided/debated and the design seems 5-8 years away.

2. We have seen in the example of the LCA and the F-35 that when one tries to do 2 or 3 big things at once in a new platform things tend to break down - resulting in delays and compromise in capabilities. IAC 2 we are doing a good thing by being ambitious and future proofing ourselves but I have a feeling we will not get all of the following a) Increased Size b) EMALS c) N-propulsion.

3. In light of the rapidly changing maritime dynamic wrt Chinese the Navy would do well to put availability before capability, especially since our original plans should have got us a 3 carrier navy by 2020. Getting a 60kt carrier with an EMALS catapult capability on time should be manna from heaven for us.

4. One also hopes the Navy starts to spell out what is our expeditionary doctrine around these 3 carriers. Is there a CSG equivalent? Who is going to provide marine infantry-Army or IN? How many LPD/LPH types are being ordered in parallel?


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PostPosted: 07 Dec 2012 18:14 
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one line answer: use the ready DCN PA2 design.

coolest looking too, with two stealth islands.


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PostPosted: 08 Dec 2012 01:22 
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if you can design a robust beer bottle filling conveyor plant and labeling system like in mallaya's kingfisher plant vulcano sytem. get the gun of bmp2 fitt in the turret sytem of Arjun and the hydraulic damping system BEML earth moving you have our own rapid firing gun






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PostPosted: 08 Dec 2012 03:32 
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Dumb question

Is there a possibility for India to buy a AC that is delivered and integrated into the force within 5 yrs? What are the options? I remember reading about one British/French vessel. What would be the cost of such an acquisition?


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PostPosted: 08 Dec 2012 06:05 
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France has not funded their pa2 design...its same template as uk qe2 in cogag plant and size, but ctol with rafale and hawkeye full payload ops.

Uk qe2 is nearing completion, and will be stobar after a brief dalliance with ctol ....

There is nothing ready for sale, best bet is fund dcn to consult us for the pa2 basic design and build in addl bigger drydock in kochi.


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PostPosted: 08 Dec 2012 06:19 
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The reason I am asking is AC are a 10-15 yr project for India and have a limited qty requirement. Perhaps India should focus on building smaller vessels in large numbers first. I am not knowledgeable in this field but I think a buy option is better than make option in this scenario.

If a AC along with its air wing can be acquired for $10b, I think it is a better option IMHO. Imagine MMS got a AC for the $10b he donated to EU.


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PostPosted: 08 Dec 2012 08:33 
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Singhaji:

Re. Soryu: I doubt That the Indo-Japanese military ties have progressed to the point where the Japanese are willing to sell India such an "offensive" military platform. Certainly not with transfer of technology.

Even if the Govt-to-Govt relations were great, it will not matter. Japan's pacifist constitution will not allow it to be sold to an "area of conflict". Good luck with getting spares in case of war.

Have the Japanese sold "offensive" weaponry to anyone post WW2?

I think France, Russia, Spain etc are the only choices for P75I. Let L&T tie up with any one of them and produce them in India.


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PostPosted: 08 Dec 2012 08:48 
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RamaY wrote:
Dumb question

Is there a possibility for India to buy a AC that is delivered and integrated into the force within 5 yrs? What are the options? I remember reading about one British/French vessel. What would be the cost of such an acquisition?


Actually this is a really smart question. Jump back a few pages on this thread and you will see options like the Spanish Principe de Asturias being available...but seriously considering such options means giving more weightage to the availability of a platform in a dynamic security environment today rather than the limited capability and shelf life inherent in an older build.

One just hopes in the next year or so we don't find ourselves in a situation wrt the Chinese where there is a confrontation requiring the Viraat to be employed, and like in 1965, our only carrier is sitting in the docks for repairs or refits.


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PostPosted: 08 Dec 2012 08:51 
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Katare's point on indigenous sonars.Yes,R&D takes time,but when put into production on so many warships and subs,the further problems must be minimised.However,for comparison with other navies,look at the huge problems the British and others are also having with their own subs,etc.mastering sub tech is a massive task.

Cats or STOBAR? Big decision.Cats hugely expensive ,reason why the RN has ditched them for its own 65,000t+ QE carriers in favour of the STOVL JSF,also hugely expensive at around $150-200M per plane....when it eventually arrives! Cats also demand huge extra power which means that the powerplant requirement is going to be a major worry.Nuke power? Whatever the sokution it is going to add a few billions extra to the cost.

IN's choices.Examine a naval version of the FGFA.The latest AWST says that the IAF is drastically cutting down on numbers of FGFAs (no twin-seat versions because it does not believe HAL can develop it).There was some talk of a Russian naval version.Rafales and other current aircraft like our Flankers can easily operate from the deck using the STOBAR system.In the long term,for future decades,India must have its own STOVL aircraft for naval aviation as this system is by far the easiest to operate especially in recovering aircraft.AWST also says that the AMCA design now resembles the F-22.

Future subs.The cost of western conventional subs is almost as much as an Akula on lease!.perhaps even more.We should buy/lease out at least two more Akulas which will be vastly superior to any conventional AIP subs and carry far more land attack missiles and other weaponry.In fact the ATV design is an excellent platform for being converted into an SSGN-which in current avatar it really is.Our top priority of all programmes is developing our SSBNs and our underwater strategic deterrent ,we at the moment have no additional capability/yards,etc., to simultaneously build both SSGNs abnd SSBNs.A future AIP sub must be able to carry Brahmos which is the best in the world at the moment and which gives us a definite edge over our rivals.


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PostPosted: 08 Dec 2012 09:25 
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^ so in CATS vs STOBAR situation you either pay for the CAT or STOVL financially ($1b for CAT integration or $50mx30 STOVL fighters) right?

Which technology is easy to master for Indian industry? Which technology less repetition (reproduceability)? Which technology others are willing to share? Which technology has cross platform application? And so on must be the criteria, IMO.

Add time to market to this decision making.

And then make Buy vs Make decision?

On the other hand is it possible to outsource part of the project? If SoKo/Japan/whoever is good at ship building can deliver the basic vessel in 2 yrs then we must go for it and spend that time mastering the other aspects of AC?

If we can integrate a main gun or missile shield from a foreign source why not the main vessel?

Forgive my ignorance if I am making stupid suggestions.


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