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PostPosted: 05 Dec 2012 20:52 
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Green on Green Intra-Mohammadden violence sees the demonstration of the IED Mubarak variant of the IEDology of Pakistan as Un-uniformed Jihadi’s of the Taliban take out Uniformed Jihadi’s of the military of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan:

Pakistan soldiers die as suicide bombers attack Waziristan camp


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PostPosted: 05 Dec 2012 21:06 
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Jeffery Lewis over at Arms Control Wonk (ACW) has posted an article by Tamara Patton that says that the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s weapons-grade Uranium and Plutonium production is going to come up against an uranium shortage:

Uranium Fuel Constraints for Pakistan’s Nuclear Weapon Complex


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PostPosted: 05 Dec 2012 22:35 
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After the Gauri missile failure one can expect the imminent Noko missile test to be postponed till failure analysis is conducted. On the other hand, maybe Pakis made so many changes to NoDong to get to Hatf-5 that its not relevant to the NoKos.

One interesting thing is suppose the Pakis are candid (oxymoron) that the stage separated, then noting the location where the debris fell, Dadu, Sindh, and knowing its single stage vehicle, then they are trying to separate the payload from the vehicle to reduce the radar signature. This is a consequence of the PAD/AAD tests by DRDO.
Maybe they had a vaccum burst that led to the failure.


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PostPosted: 06 Dec 2012 07:15 
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A Paki missile flying parallel to the international border from Pakjab to Sindh should be great for tracking by India. I suppose Pakis track it using US supplied radars?


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PostPosted: 06 Dec 2012 07:55 
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Pakis have a large cheen radar called ylc2 as well which might be able to track irbms.

Cheen could have givnen them some other kit for this as well from its own test programs.


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PostPosted: 06 Dec 2012 08:02 
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I really pity the ignorance and the ability to logically think on this thread. The DRDO tested its AAD missile on an exo atmospheric interception against the Ghauri and the result was the disintegrated/dismembered gory ghauri


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PostPosted: 06 Dec 2012 08:22 
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oops someone found out the truth


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PostPosted: 06 Dec 2012 23:08 
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Pakistan Promised Missile Armed Chinese UAVs

Pakistan recently announced that it would obtain armed UAVs from China. Few other details were revealed. Pakistan has been trying to develop armed UAVs for over six years, without success. China, however, has recently indicated that it has several missiles, especially the Blue Arrow 7 and HJ-10, that are identical in size and performance to the American Hellfire and can be used from UAVs. While these missiles have recently been offered for export, there are no known buyers or indications of how well these missiles actually work. China has also been offering a UAV of similar shape, weight, and performance as the U.S. Predator. Called CH-4, this UAV is similar in shape to the larger American MQ-9 Reaper, while its size is almost identical to the 1.2 ton Predator. CH-4 weighs 1.1 tons, has a 14 meter (46 feet) wingspan, and is 9 meters (28 feet) long. It has max altitude of 5,300 meters (16,400 feet) and an endurance of over 20 hours. This UAV should be able to carry a pair of Blue Arrow 7 missiles. Perhaps Pakistan is just waiting for some successful field tests before buying.

Over the last five years Pakistan has used several different types of UAVs along the Afghan and Indian borders. The most effective of these has been the Italian Falco UAV, which Pakistan ordered six years ago. The air force completed evaluation of the Falco four years ago and put at least four of them into service. Falco is a 420 kg (924 pound) aircraft with a 68.2 kg (150 pound) payload. Ceiling is 5,000 meters but it usually operates at lower altitudes (2,000 meters). Endurance is up to 12 hours but typical missions are 6-8 hours. Max speed is 210 kilometers an hour, although it usually cruises at 150. Falco can be up to 200 kilometers from its ground station. The UAV can take off and land on an air strip or use a catapult for takeoff and parachute for takeoff and landing.

Pakistan has also been using several Chinese UAVs for the last decade or so. First, they got the ASN-105, a 140 kg (308 pound) aircraft with a payload of 40 kg (88 pounds) and endurance of only two hours. This is a 1980s era design and has since been replaced by the ASN-206/207. This is a 222 kg (488 pound) aircraft with a 50 kg (110 pound) payload. The 207 model has a max endurance of eight hours but more common is an endurance of four hours. Max range from the control van is 150 kilometers away and cruising speed is about 180 kilometers an hour.

Pakistan is also developing its own UAVs. Four years ago it tested the Uqaab. This design looks very similar to commercial models. These are smaller (under 250 kg/550 pounds) UAVs for the government and commercial use that have been around since the late 1990s. The Uqaab also appears similar to the U.S. Army RQ-7B Shadow 200. More recently a Pakistani firm has produced the 470 kg (1,034 pound) Shahpar, which can stay in the air seven hours per sortie. This model is very similar to the Chinese CH-3.

Pakistan requested Predators from the United States, but this was turned down because it was feared that the Chinese would be allowed to dissect the American UAV and acquire too many production secrets. Pakistan and China have been chummy for decades. No secrets between friends and all that. But European nations, like Italy and Germany, have been willing to sell Pakistan unarmed UAVs.


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PostPosted: 06 Dec 2012 23:59 
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It is time India patches a big thela/mash at the bottom of a drone to whack away at the paki UAVs.

Atleast details of the UAVs should be quickly read.


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PostPosted: 07 Dec 2012 17:05 
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JF-17's true name makes it to Google Suggestions :lol: and in Google.com too. In Google.co.in it's on top of the suggestions with even less alphabets. lol

Image


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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2012 11:50 
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With 12 crashes in 18 months, the Paki airforce is literally falling out of the sky by itself! So, more Chinese Junk is needed, to keep up with the falling out of the sky rate going forward.

Crashes Raise Concerns About Pakistan's Air Force
Or is this really Pisko Balloon Flying for more baksheesh for F-16s from the Arizona Bone Yards ?


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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2012 12:03 
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Most of the crashes are old Mirage-3 and new chinese made F-7's. Pretty much shows how reliable chinese technology is compared to western tech from the 60's and 70's. :D


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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2012 12:09 
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the PA and SFC is likely starving the PN and PAF of funds. running a big AF is a costly business and wrt to size of economy PAF is a huge AF (so is the PA).


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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2012 12:20 
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Well PN has been saying they are buying chinese subs and Type-054 frigates for years whithout moving towards it. It could be PA is withholding money or after seeing the F-22p in action they are very reluctant to order chinese again unless they have absolutely no other option.


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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2012 12:26 
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Bheeshma wrote:
Well PN has been saying they are buying chinese subs and Type-054 frigates for years whithout moving towards it. It could be PA is withholding money or after seeing the F-22p in action they are very reluctant to order chinese again unless they have absolutely no other option.


or probably expecting their daddy to offer something


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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2012 12:43 
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realistically the only thing big daddy can offer is some of the Perry class ships (19 in service, 8 in reserve) that are being retired fast or palmed off to small scale allies. these ships have been stripped of any long range arms in USN service and serve more as anti piracy / littoral patrol rather than strike group ships. so putting down a bar riot in vanuatu - yes, dealing with enemy ships -no.

but I suppose they can be cleaned up a little, have the phalanx, throw in the usual 4x2 harpoon pack, a ESM kit, a cheap 2D radar, a box of SeaRAM missiles and could be some what useful for patrol work. Pakis might try to get some 4-6 of these if the F22P didnt pan out.

useful life left in these ships even with low duty cycle is minimal though, the USN flogs its ships hard because they patrol far from home on 6-9 month deployment cycles.

TICO CGs will also start retiring at some point (USN has far too many DDGs than needed), but pakis can only salivate and dream of getting them. there is a chance Taiwan might be given though if khan wants to upset Cheen :lol:


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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2012 12:57 
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The OHP's are useless ships since they are almost as old as the Type-21's pakis are trying to get rid off. The McInerey is 33 years old now and has very poor weapon fit. US will not add the radars, missiles or anything unless PN pays for it. The old ship may come free of course.


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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2012 14:24 
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vina wrote:
With 12 crashes in 18 months, the Paki airforce is literally falling out of the sky by itself! So, more Chinese Junk is needed, to keep up with the falling out of the sky rate going forward.

Crashes Raise Concerns About Pakistan's Air Force
Or is this really Pisko Balloon Flying for more baksheesh for F-16s from the Arizona Bone Yards ?


Nope the baki AF is on its way to become a true Jihadi AF. It is all set to perform flying soosai on evil yindoos..


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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2012 14:27 
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And I don't think the Turks will oblige them either without seeing the money.

All Abdul bhaichara goes out of window once money dries up.

The Turks have also been recipients of older OHP's under the Genesis program which has equipped these ships for typical naval warfare with a stress on AD.


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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2012 14:37 
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Bheeshma wrote:
Most of the crashes are old Mirage-3 and new chinese made F-7's. Pretty much shows how reliable chinese technology is compared to western tech from the 60's and 70's. :D


For H&D reasons a F-16 or JF-17 unless done in a populated area like the JF_17 just outside Islamabad is always a F-16 or JF-17. Apprently no PAF F-16 has crashed since 1994, I find that hard to belive.


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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2012 14:56 
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Aditya_V wrote:
Apprently no PAF F-16 has crashed since 1994, I find that hard to belive.


Flown sparingly...


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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2012 15:42 
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Doc ji could mean flown sparingly as well as flown without stressing the aircraft, not too many dogfight manuverus practiced, such flaws will come out only in combat situations


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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2012 15:51 
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yes, for a while due to political situation with uncle the f16 was basically grounded or flown very low hrs with turkish help. things opened up after 9/11 and most of these f16 are now MLUed and put back in service.

if you recall a senior commander hamid qadri crashed and kia flying a f7 from kamra. I believe some f7's had been attached to f16 squadrons so that pilots could keep flying without using the f16.


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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2012 21:23 
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http://idrw.org/?p=16536#more-16536
Crashes raise concern LOL about Pakistani air force
Image
Quote:
Over a dozen Pakistani air force planes have crashed in roughly the past 18 months, raising concerns about the health of an aging fleet that officials are struggling to upgrade because of a lack of funds.

A significant number of the air force’s combat aircraft are nearly half a century old and have been called on in recent years to help the army fight a domestic Taliban insurgency that has killed thousands of people. This has added to the strain on a force that has historically focused on countering the threat from Pakistan’s neighbor and archenemy, India.

Pakistan has turned to the U.S. and China for help in modernizing its air force, but economic woes have strained the government’s budget, even for the country’s powerful military. Tension with the U.S. over a host of issues, including the covert raid that killed Osama bin Laden last year, also hasn’t helped.

Shahzad Chaudhry, a former senior Pakistani air force officer, said the number of planes that have crashed “would be worrying for any air force.”

“If I were air force chief, I certainly wouldn’t want to see over a dozen airplanes being lost,” said Chaudhry. “Obviously we need to bring those numbers down.”

At least 13 planes have crashed since May 2011, many because of technical problems, according to a record maintained by The Associated Press. The air force did not respond to request for comment on the crashes.

The most recent accident occurred on Nov. 22, when a Dassault Mirage fighter jet crashed on a routine night training mission in central Punjab province, killing the pilot. The air force said at the time that it was investigating the cause of the crash, but eyewitnesses said the plane caught fire before it fell out of the sky.

Nearly half the planes that have crashed were decades-old Mirage fighters. They make up at least a quarter of the force’s fleet of about 400 combat aircraft, according to the websiteGlobalSecurity.org. Many were built nearly 50 years ago and acquired from foreign militaries that had already retired them.

“We bought them at almost throw-away prices, brought them over, overhauled them and continue to operate them,” said former Pakistani air force chief Tanvir Mahmood. “This was our compulsion because of the financial constraints that we had.”

Chaudhry, the former senior air force officer, said the Mirage was a “very sturdy platform” that shouldn’t fail easily.

“But when you have the intensity of an operational combat environment, problems tend to be there,” said Chaudhry.

The crashes raise questions not only about the age of the aircraft, but also flight maintenance practices, said Sajad Haider, a celebrated former air force pilot who has written a book about the service.

Other planes that have gone down include the Chengdu F-7 fighter jet bought from China, the JF-17 Thunder fighter jet jointly developed with China and Pakistan’s Mushshak trainer, a propeller plane.

The most advanced fighter jet operated by the Pakistani air force is the F-16 Fighting Falcon, over 60 of which were purchased in various batches from the U.S. over the past three decades.

U.S. military support came to a halt in the 1990s because of sanctions imposed on Pakistan over its nuclear program, but resumed in 2001 when Washington needed Islamabad’s support to fight al-Qaida and the Taliban in Afghanistan. Military assistance largely dried up once again over the past two years because of renewed tensions between the two countries, although the U.S. did deliver more than a dozen new F-16s purchased by Pakistan.

One of the reasons Pakistan turned to China for help with its air force was the country’s troubles with the U.S.

The government has purchased over 100 F-7 fighter jets from China, mostly in the 1980s, and has reportedly ordered more advanced FC-20 fighter jets in recent years. Pakistan is also domestically producing the JF-17 fighter jet, jointly developed with China, but it has not yet entered full service.

“The JF-17 program was pushed through during my tenure of office because we knew we couldn’t live with these old Mirages and some of our old Chinese planes for too long,” said Mahmood, who served as air force chief from 2006 to 2009.

The current head of the air force, Tahir Rafique Butt, told Pakistan’s Senate defense committee at the end of November that the force was struggling to modernize its equipment and technology because of a shortage of funds, said the head of the committee, Mushahid Hussain.

While Pakistani military spending makes up about 20 percent of the government’s budget, the air force is lower down the totem pole than the powerful army.

Hussain said the air force was doing the best with what it has, but the recent spate of crashes “was linked to use of technology that is fast becoming outmoded and obsolete.”

“That reinforces the argument the air force was making to us about a lack of resources,” said Hussain.


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PostPosted: 13 Dec 2012 00:07 
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^^Shiv
Pretty disappointing. The head of pakistani airforce is actually named Rafiki's Butt and you have chosen to ignore it. You are losing it man...


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PostPosted: 13 Dec 2012 05:43 
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Location: Confucius say: bell ring as many times as you strike it, else it not ring
:D
BTW is that photo a crashed Bundaar? That would be the first.


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PostPosted: 13 Dec 2012 06:25 
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shiv wrote:
:D
BTW is that photo a crashed Bundaar? That would be the first.

Looks like it.

--Ashish


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PostPosted: 13 Dec 2012 22:01 
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X Posted from the TSP thread.

anupmisra wrote:
Pakistan military guilty of abuses, alleges Amnesty. Yep! Its only an allegation. Prove it otherwise.

Quote:
The Pakistan military is guilty of rights abuses on the Afghan border, using new security laws and a colonial-era penal system to act with impunity, a report by Amnesty International alleged on Thursday
Quote:
Cases of death and torture have been documented, detainees are not brought before court and relatives have no idea of their fate, sometimes for extended periods of time, said the London-based human rights group.
Quote:
Almost every week the bodies of those arrested by the armed forces are being returned to their families or reportedly found dumped across the tribal areas


Now one knows that abusing Human Rights is what the Uniformed Jihadi’s of the Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan mean by the “Jihad in the path of Allah” or in Urdu “Jihad fi Sabilillah” part of their motto of “Iman, Taqwa, Jihad fi Sabilillah”, or in English, “Faith, Piety and Jihad in the path of Allah”.

Anyway the cited Amnesty International report is available at the below link:

The Hands Of Cruelty : Abuses By Armed Forces And Taliban In Pakistan’s Tribal Areas

Those not wanting to wade through a fat report, can instead check out the Amnesty International press release on the Human Rights abuses committed by the Uniformed Jihadis :

Report exposes 'the hands of cruelty' in Pakistan's Tribal Areas


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PostPosted: 20 Dec 2012 04:12 
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The inhumans around us:-

I invite your support to take the following cause forward.



The articles of the Geneva Convention provide that ,members of armed forces who have laid down their arms, and combatants who are hors de combat (out of the fight) due to wounds, detention, or any other cause shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, with the following prohibitions:

(a) violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;

(b) taking of hostages;

(c) outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment

(d) the passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court, affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.



NOW, How would you feel if your body was burned with cigarettes, ear-drums pierced with hot rods, eyes punctured eyes before removing them, teeth and bones broken, nose chipped, limbs chopped off and private organs inflicted with all sorts of physical and mental torture.

This is how Capt. Saurabh Kalia along with Sepoys Arjun Ram, Bhanwar Lal Bagaria, Bhika Ram, Moola Ram and Naresh Singh of the 4 Jat Regiment Captain Kalia and his men were tortured for over twenty-two days (May 15, 1999 – June 7, 1999) and finally shoot dead, as evidenced by the bullet wound to the temple.



As a Soldier and as a Human Being you have a promise ,as underlined by the Geneva Convention ,that you will be treated with dignity that a Human Being deserves. We have to hold people accountable for breach of this promise to Humanity.



Please do visit the following site

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saurabh_Kalia



I just signed the petition "Raise Capt. Saurabh Kalia's case at the ICJ and pressurize Pakistan to apologies" on Change.org.

It's important. Please sign it too. Here's the link:



http://www.change.org/en-IN/petitions/r ... -apologies


please feel free to distribute this to as many people as possible.


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PostPosted: 20 Dec 2012 09:50 
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Eric,

It says petition closed at 3,022 signatories? At change.org


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PostPosted: 21 Dec 2012 03:35 
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pakistan's JF-17 'Thunder' Aircraft More Primitive Than Any Fourth-Generation Fighter, Admits Its Project Director

this month's AWST

Quote:
"Others aim to use the JF-17 to replace their second-and third-generation fighters, says Khalid, adding that the JF-17's capabilities put it between third and fourth generations."


http://www.aame.in/2012/12/pakistan-jf- ... itive.html


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PostPosted: 21 Dec 2012 07:14 
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Misraji wrote:
shiv wrote:
:D
BTW is that photo a crashed Bundaar? That would be the first.

Looks like it.

--Ashish


Quote:
Media reports suggested that the pilot, Squadron Leader Muhammad Hussain, was killed as his parachute did not open after he bailed out of the aircraft. The pilot’s body was found about two kilometers from the site of the crash.


improvised human drone technology.


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PostPosted: 21 Dec 2012 07:28 
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I thought they used martin baker ejection seat but then for cost cutting probably settled for abu bakr ejection seat made in gansu,china.


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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2012 01:12 
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Naval Barber?
Quote:
Pakistan Navy conducts maiden test of land attack missile system
ISLAMABAD: The Pakistan Navy on Friday conducted the maiden test of a land attack missile system as part of efforts to test the credibility of its "deterrence at sea", a spokespersons said.

The first test of the land attack missile system, which was not identified, was part of the firing of a variety of modern missiles, the spokesperson said in a statement.

"While reassuring Pakistan Navy's commitment and capability to defend the motherland, this firing reaffirms credibility of (the) deterrence at sea," the statement said. All the missiles "successfully engaged the targets with pinpoint accuracy", the statement said.

"Operationalisation of land attack capability ushers in a new era and a quantum increase in the combat potential of the Pakistan Navy," it added.

The missiles were tested in the North Arabian Sea on December 19 and 21 by ships that were recently inducted in the naval fleet. The naval chief, Admiral Mohammad Asif Sandila, was present on board PNS Zulfiquar to witness the tests.

"This mega weapon firing event demonstrated lethality, precision and efficacy of modern weapon systems on board the Pakistan Navy fleet's surface platforms," the statement said.

Admiral Sandila appreciated the operational preparedness of the Pakistan Navy's fleet and "emphasized the need to remain ever ready to respond to any challenge to our national security".

The government is cognizant of the navy's "developmental needs and all out efforts are being made to address critical capability gaps," he said.


http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 711850.cms


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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2012 01:49 
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Quote:
"While reassuring Pakistan Navy's commitment and capability to defend the motherland, this firing reaffirms credibility of (the) deterrence at sea," the statement said. All the missiles "successfully engaged the targets with pinpoint accuracy", the statement said.


"Motherland"? Pakistan is female? :shock:

Quote:
"Operationalisation of land attack capability ushers in a new era and a quantum increase in the combat potential of the Pakistan Navy," it added.


Isn't the babur a subsonic missile? So launching subsonic mid-range cruise-missiles in the 21st century a "new era and quantum increase in the combat potential"? :D

Well, I guess it is the PN, so from their perspective it probably is.


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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2012 03:27 
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Also note the exaggeration designed to pander to American audiences:

Quote:
"This mega weapon firing event demonstrated....

Following the National Geographic tradition of:

  • Mega Factories
  • Mega Mosque
  • Megafamilies
  • Megafish
  • Megaship
  • MegaStructures
  • MegaStructures Break Down


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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2012 06:45 
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^^^
Mega OT


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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2012 06:46 
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Trouble reading a quote on a Pakistani missile test or is the pandering to Americans reference causing an itch?


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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2012 06:52 
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Laziness is a bitch


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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2012 09:32 
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Possibly land attack harpoon or a Chinese c802 variant.


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