China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

ashi · Post by **ashi** » 11 Dec 2012 11:37

Singha wrote:for now you can worry over the ONGC ships surveying the sea bed on behalf of vietnam oil exploration and mapping all the undersea topography, temp and salinity for our submarines to use

http://articles.economictimes.indiatime ... e-disputes

vietnam has also armed themselves with land based yakhont missiles to reach out in brotherly love if needed.

this has been going on under your chair since atleast 2009
http://www.ongcvidesh.com/Assets.aspx?tab=0#Vietnam

We are also set up to deep sea mining in Indian ocean legitimately. Like I said, it would be fun to see when all this materialized.

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 11 Dec 2012 11:45

ashi wrote: We are also set up to deep sea mining in Indian ocean legitimately. Like I said, it would be fun to see when all this materialized.

ashi

War is never fun.

China against the rest of the world will not end well. But it seems that to "keep face", the Chinese leaders are willing to go a long way. Unfortunately India too will be dragged into the melee.

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 11 Dec 2012 11:57

LoL China has no capability to do anything in IOR

. They can barely sail 100 km from their coast. It will be funny if they have to ask IN to help their ships that got grounded on some shoals. IN has been operating pretty consistently in SEA and SCS for nearly 2 decades now

. Chinese are already shitting bricks about it.

ashi · Post by **ashi** » 11 Dec 2012 12:49

VikramS wrote:
ashi wrote: We are also set up to deep sea mining in Indian ocean legitimately. Like I said, it would be fun to see when all this materialized.
ashi

War is never fun.

China against the rest of the world will not end well. But it seems that to "keep face", the Chinese leaders are willing to go a long way. Unfortunately India too will be dragged into the melee.

Someone here says 200 Brahamos will make all the PLAN surface vessels disappear. I want to see that happen.

China against rest of the world? That's pretty far fetched by any standard.

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 11 Dec 2012 12:52

LoL no sink one the rest will run back and hide near their shores. The joke that PLAN is does not require 200 Brahmos.

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 11 Dec 2012 13:22

^^ the real fun starts when India decides to sell Brahmos-2 batteries to Vietnam, Indonesia and if necessary to Taiwan yada yada.
India has not even started its game in the south china. It is just a warning shot to those who think that string of pearls around Indian ocean will be left without any consequences. What do you think will happen. Did some crappy strategist in Beijing thought that India will sit quiet when you start building bases in its neighbourhood.
The message is that china has to accept presence of India in its neighbourhood if not harm will be on the way as oil supply passes from 'Indian Ocean' before reaching china.

ashi · Post by **ashi** » 11 Dec 2012 13:43

ashish raval wrote:^^ the real fun starts when India decides to sell Brahmos-2 batteries to Vietnam, Indonesia and if necessary to Taiwan yada yada.
India has not even started its game in the south china. It is just a warning shot to those who think that string of pearls around Indian ocean will be left without any consequences. What do you think will happen. Did some crappy strategist in Beijing thought that India will sit quiet when you start building bases in its neighbourhood.
The message is that china has to accept presence of India in its neighbourhood if not harm will be on the way as oil supply passes from 'Indian Ocean' before reaching china.

Sound like you can rule the world with Brahmos.

I can certainly understand the pride, given this missile is probably the one of the few things in your defense industry ever comes to fruition, even Russian plays a big part in this missile.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 11 Dec 2012 13:50

ashi wrote: Sound like you can rule the world with Brahmos.

Your world will certainly be restricted by Brahmos, so you can boldly click on smileys behind your monitor. Note that you are talking about Indian weapons having run out of steam boasting about cheap Chinese copies.

Why not make this thread more fun? Lets see the latest aerobatics of your J-20

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 11 Dec 2012 14:02

Singha wrote:in hollywood its called good-cop:bad-cop

In Bollywood it is called Ek Chumaa, Ek Jhaapad.

I think in china it is called ding dong or is it ping pong? Whatever, whichever.

ashi · Post by **ashi** » 11 Dec 2012 14:07

shiv wrote:
ashi wrote: Sound like you can rule the world with Brahmos.
Your world will certainly be restricted by Brahmos, so you can boldly click on smileys behind your monitor. Note that you are talking about Indian weapons having run out of steam boasting about cheap Chinese copies.

Why not make this thread more fun? Lets see the latest aerobatics of your J-20

You don't have a fifth gen of your own to see? Oh that's right, sorry ...

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Dec 2012 14:12

I do. I do. we imported it from Cheen http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41cuVmpLl%2BL.jpg

about the real info, the J20 and this one is about on equal terms.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 11 Dec 2012 14:14

we do have 5th gen.....chinese just dunno about it

ashi · Post by **ashi** » 11 Dec 2012 14:30

Sri Lanka to purchase six JF-17

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 11 Dec 2012 14:39

^^^^
That is good news. They are getting something far inferior to what we have.

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 11 Dec 2012 14:43

ashi wrote:Sri Lanka to purchase six JF-17

My condolences in advance to the families of the six sri lankan pilots who will fly them.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 11 Dec 2012 14:48

ashi wrote: Oh that's right, sorry ...

I can understand why you are sorry. I would be too if my nation were pretending the way China does.
J-20 has no 5th gen features other than a stealthy looking shape screwed up by 6 huge aerodynamic surfaces

AESA - nyet
Supercruise- nyet
IR suppressing exhaust-nyet
seamless networking with other assets - nyet
Demonstrated ability (video) to fly more than once- nyet
High percentage of composites - nyet
Big ugly white undercarriage doors - check

What 5th gen are you talking about? It yet another fake Chinese claim. That is why I am encouraging you to tell us more. And expect you to change the subject to a discussion about India. You really have nothing much to talk about the J-20 do you? Admit it now. It's alright. We Indians understand the difficulty of developing credible tech and the Chinese desire to fake things. I woudl like India to fake things too, just like the Chinese, but we can't fake things in an open free society.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 11 Dec 2012 14:48

ashi wrote:Sri Lanka yet to purchase six JF-17 - LOL

Link title Corrected

BTW click the link and check the language folks.

bodhi · Post by **bodhi** » 11 Dec 2012 18:02

A knowledgeable friend called to say China had bought off the entire production line of the Tu-22M3M — the latest variant of of the ‘Backfire’ strategic bomber from Russia for $1.5 billion, just $500 million more, as he reminded me, than what India will be paying to acquire the Pilatus propeller-driven trainer aircraft from Switzerland. This little snippet for anybody who doubts that India is getting things strategically so horribly wrong!!

http://bharatkarnad.com/2012/12/11/tu-2 ... al-bikram/

Dont know the authenticity, just saw this on a thread.

nash · Post by **nash** » 11 Dec 2012 18:26

shiv wrote:
ashi wrote:Sri Lanka yet to purchase six JF-17 - LOL
Link title Corrected

BTW click the link and check the language folks.

It is hard to say that the writer is porki or cheeni, but the language is

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Dec 2012 18:27

well there is onlee one problem. the tu22m3 like any other a/c will undergo final assembly in a line but 100s of suppliers including the engine maker needs to supply things from nuts and bolts to complete modules. this is not like assembling a shoe or toy from a few low tech parts. it has been out of new production since demise of soviet union.

what is the plan of Cheen to round up and get all these long ago suppliers to start production to spec again. looking at the issues with their IL76 order and our IL76 parts problems, I would not break any champagne yet.

maybe they hope to use the production line to cobble together something, paint it black and impress people.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 11 Dec 2012 18:58

member_20292 · Post by **member_20292** » 11 Dec 2012 19:09

arey ....they'll make a flying device all right ......

how come we dont have the influence in Russia to prevent such sales???

Harshad · Post by **Harshad** » 11 Dec 2012 19:15

shiv wrote: What 5th gen are you talking about? It yet another fake Chinese claim.

Not quite true:
You have no idea about chinese made 5th generation stealth locomotives which pakistan has purchased and wants to purchase more. These locomotives are completely invisible to ordinary pakis. They run absolutely silent while cruising the paki countryside at a phenomenal speed of zero mph. Care has to be taken to maintain secrecy and these locos are tucked away from prying eyes in sheds unknown. Painted green they are well camouflaged within the tall grass that is grown around the tracks.

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 11 Dec 2012 20:22

^^^

Indeed.

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 11 Dec 2012 20:22

mahadevbhu wrote:arey ....they'll make a flying device all right ......

how come we dont have the influence in Russia to prevent such sales???

Just like a donkey cart is a transportation device.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 11 Dec 2012 20:30

The Chinese have wanted the Backfire since at least 2000. Indian Navy was offered some on lease but declined. There is a reason why both the US and Russia stopped making non-stealth long- range bombers decades ago--they can be seen from hundreds of miles away and shot down by missiles well before they get anywhere near a target. Besides, they can't do anything that accurate ballistic and cruise missiles can't do better. In a modern battlefield, only smaller planes that combine long range, speed, networked awareness, aesa and a massive punch make any sense. Like the upgraded Mirage 2000, Jaguar, Su-30mki and Rafale with refueling capability.

If true, this is another example of tactical brilliance. Everyone from Japan to Malaysia, Singapore, Philippines, Vietnam will respond and move even closer to each other, boxing China further.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 11 Dec 2012 20:36

^ After reading Vivek's scenario I can see why Chinese need such a long-range heavy bombers. They can carry the LRCMs and can deliver them from well-within China, instead of having to move the missiles and their launchers to advanced locations.

India doesn't need them because instead of spending $`00'sM on these platforms it can produce many Brahmos and Nirbhay and deploy them in close-to-border locations.

India's advantage in any Indo-China war is that its goal is to severe Tibet from China

which it can do from its borders. China, on the other hand, has to protect Tibet from Hun-Areas.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 11 Dec 2012 21:26

Why do they need the Backfires, if the J20 (with its alleged naval strike role that someone in west has defined and the PLA gladly accepted) can do the job better than any Russian planes? Didnt some drone claim "no more imports for China" ? So this news about Backfires is fake.

Shiv-saar, IIRC, Iran had the first fifth generation aircraft much earlier than china - the formidable Bavar 2
(if we just go by sheet metal work and photosorbing like the drones do)

But we all laughed at Iran, because unlike China, Iran can and should be under estimated, despite better ties with Russia and Europe

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 11 Dec 2012 21:27

Yep. China's greatest weakness is the fact that all its oil has to sail within range of an Indian boat or plane sailing or flying in Indian territory, all the way from the middle east to the Bay of Bengal and Malacca Strait. Overland routes are impossible for the foreseeable future. If an Indian ship is attacked in the South China Sea, ten Chinese tankers will sink in the Arabian Sea, Bay of Bengal or off the Andaman coast. It's next greatest weakness is the stupidity of its generals.

manum · Post by **manum** » 11 Dec 2012 21:40

Chinmayanand wrote:
ashi wrote:Sri Lanka to purchase six JF-17

My condolences in advance to the families of the six sri lankan pilots who will fly them.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 11 Dec 2012 21:49

wonder how much they are paying for it, and how ?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 11 Dec 2012 21:55

krishnan wrote:wonder how much they are paying for it, and how ?

Al the details from the link

The Sri Lanka Air Force is due to is arranging to purchase six JF -17 planes, according to the progress freport of Ministry of Defense and Urban Development. These aircraft are due to be purchased under the 2013 finalised projects.

manum · Post by **manum** » 11 Dec 2012 22:01

If they can buy scrap assembly line of TU bombers...in $ 1 bil. of drone public money...

They can gift few bundars terming as long term loans...and these drones never get to ask even...

Huge scale of waste...

One tiny bit of problem Drones will chew the party without soup...

Though would love to see lca with friendlies...

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 11 Dec 2012 23:33

ashi wrote: Sound like you can rule the world with Brahmos. I can certainly understand the pride, given this missile is probably the one of the few things in your defense industry ever comes to fruition, even Russian plays a big part in this missile.

Nothing counts in a war only that which can win a war. I don't care where my weapons come from if it can blow up a naval vessel. All the ingenious bravado gets shoved behind a losers backside when the guys who won the war starts selling your land and sea contracts to highest international bidder and slaps the war fine on the public.
Not that I am assuming that India and china will go to war in future because both countries will go back 25 years just because of foolishness of few at the top of communist airheads.
If china is banking on pukes to enter a war in pretext that India will bomb gwader to stop chinese alternative supply line, then that will be a terrible lunacy to be assumed. Same applies to Burma or srilanka. They would not want to go in oblivion by supporting a country which is hundreds of miles away and the best assumption can be made is they will not provide bases to India at best.
Russians will have a field time practising weapons in Pakistan if by doing so they can access Indian ocean in the context of helping India.
China will have too much to loose. Shanghai, hong kong, guangzhou, beijing skyscrapers getting blown will not make good headlines for ccp I believe.

bhavani · Post by **bhavani** » 11 Dec 2012 23:55

This whole Tu-22M3 sales to China business looks like hot air. Till now no major news agency has confirmed it. If you google it, the first news of this surfaced in june 2012 and till now no major news.

If the news was true, by now there would leaked (intentionally) pictures of a Supal dupal bomber's tail or its exhausts etc. All the chinese forums and forums of the pure, tall folks would be throwing grainy pictures of its wings, tail etc

Tu-22M3 is an old beast, it was blown up the Buk system itself in 2008 Russia-georgia conflict. I dont think it is a significant threat. If panda is going to use this bomber to drop Long range cruise missile's the current old H-6 are good enough for that anyway

member_23367 · Post by **member_23367** » 12 Dec 2012 05:52

Interesting forum

Does China's culture of cheating start in kindergarden?

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php ... dergarden/

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 12 Dec 2012 07:32

shiv wrote:
ashi wrote:Sri Lanka yet to purchase six JF-17 - LOL
Link title Corrected

BTW click the link and check the language folks.

Very interesting. The Chinese version is called the CAC FC-1 Xiaolong.

So these guys are actually purchasing the one made in Pakistan, eh?

Like someone ealier posted, God bless them.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 12 Dec 2012 11:11

NRao wrote:Very interesting. The Chinese version is called the CAC FC-1 Xiaolong.
So these guys are actually purchasing the one made in Pakistan, eh?

Probably even the Pakis dont want the Bhandar, so trying to pass it on to the next schmuck down the road.

ashi · Post by **ashi** » 12 Dec 2012 13:27

Singha wrote:China air force in large-scale drill amid tensions

Associated Press
6:46 pm | Friday, December 7th, 2012

AP FILE PHOTO
BEIJING—China’s air force has staged one of its largest-ever drills amid heightened tensions with Japan and Beijing’s southern neighbors over territorial claims, state media reported Friday.

The air combat exercises involving more than 100 pilots were held over 11 days last month in the vast northwestern region of Xinjiang, according to the website of the Communist Party newspaper People’s Daily and other official news outlets.

Pilots practiced engaging in dog fights and countering electro-magnetic interference, the reports said.

Aircraft taking part came from 14 separate units and included China’s most modern jet fighters, the J-10 and J-11, along with older models and two-seater Sukhoi Su-30s purchased from Russia, the reports said.

The exercises are a vivid demonstration of China’s vastly improved military capabilities that have unnerved other Asian nations and spur a renewed US focus on the region. The Global Times newspaper published by People’s Daily called them the largest in recent years in both firepower and numbers of aircraft, and said they also involved large numbers of technicians and experts on missiles, radar and other related technologies.

They came amid stepped-up sea patrols around East China Sea islands claimed by China but controlled by Japan that followed an explosion of violent anti-Japanese protests across China in September.

Beijing has dispatched China Marine Surveillance vessels almost daily to confront Japanese Coast Guard cutters around the uninhabited rocks north of Taiwan, known as the Senkakus in Japan and Diaoyu in China. Taiwan, which calls the islands Diaoyutai, also claims them.

The drills also follow renewed feuding between China and other claimants to islands and maritime territory in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea). Aggressive patrolling by Chinese vessels has prompted Vietnam and the Philippines to bolster their forces with additional ships, planes, and submarines, and has drawn in the US, which insists on free navigation through the region of crucial shipping lanes and rich fishing stocks and undersea mineral wealth.

While the exercises were being held, China’s navy also for the first time launched and recovered aircraft from the country’s first aircraft carrier, a refurbished Ukrainian craft that will be armed with J-15 fighter-bombers, a Chinese adaptation of the Russian Sukhoi Su-33.

Video clips:

wong · Post by **wong** » 12 Dec 2012 16:28

Chinmayanand wrote:
ashi wrote:
Wow, a seriously scary missile that is so well known in the world and every armed force is terrified of it. And a group of super power countries that is willing to fight China till death. Let me see, China has fought wars with US, USSR, and two members of this group already. Of course, US and USSR are nothing compare to this group. China is in big trouble. LoL ...
Just two hundred of those missiles will make sure China does not have a surface fleet.

LOL, that's one amazing Yakhont (I mean Brahmos). So amazing Russians won't use it and American Navy yawns about it. LOL Indians. Hopeless.