Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

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Bala Vignesh
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by Bala Vignesh »

Chimera is more commonly associated with massive disasters.. A indo-china war definitely fits the bill in that case.. Plus the word dragon is too "used" to describe the chinese, as is "red".. Chimera on the other hand is hardly known and more engimatic...

Don't think naming your novel Chimera would have any issues.. Its an ancient name, not some modern trademark which is copyrighted..
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by rajanb »

Bala, you are right.

However, to distinguish it in the search engines from the other three publications of the same name one could append the current title to examples such as:

a) Battlefield Chimera
b) Himalayan Chimera
c) Asian Chimera

Not knowing the final outcome of the fabulous story!

Cheers
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by ashthor »

Roar of the Tiger
ashthor
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by ashthor »

Angry Tiger Shivering Dragon
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by ashthor »

Cobra Strike
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by chaanakya »

Why our friendly posters from China keep scrupulously away from this thread. They should also suggest how CCPC would react to Indian moves. Whether Viveks depiction is near to what they would think.

They can also come up with names. Though I may not be able to mail the book in China.
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by rajanb »

Since the chinese think that ingesting tiger's pen!s is good for their libido, why not feed it to them from another orifice!

a) Wrath of the Tiger or Tiger's Wrath
b) Avenging Tiger
c) Revenge of the Tiger
d) The Tiger Awakens
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by Manish_Sharma »

'ESCALATION' seems like a good name.

or

O P E R A T I O N : D R A G O N S L A Y
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by disha »

March of the Elephant

Angaar <- Fire

In Jest -> Agony by Agni
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by vivek_ahuja »

I think what I can do is select the top five names from this list (and also leave Chimera as the original name in there) and put it up as a poll or something like that so that we can refocus the page back to the scenario.

In other news, I thought you all might be interested in taking a look at how the manuscript is looking like after formatting. I finally crossed the 350 page mark today. 100 more to go at this point.

Here's a chapter from the manuscript:

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B-Fs98 ... 19iRGFranM

I will return to posting new material within 24 hours once I finish this heavy bout of editing.

-Vivek
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by jamwal »

Thanks for the teaser.
Of the titles suggested so far, I like Hollow Dragon best.
Considering that most of the battles have been fought in Himalayan region, you can also consider something like "Himalayan Dawn"
If you think about ferocity showed by so far restrained India, you can also consider " Trumpets Of War". "Trumpet Dragon"
A herd of elephants is called a Parade. So "Trumpet Parade" , "Himalayan Parade" , "Fiery Parade" "Parade of Thunder"
Somehow I always associated sound of trumpets with elephants. Maybe its because of the similar sounds they both make and their use in wars. Elephants have a long memory, so India bashing the dragon (which is an imaginary creature by the way) can also be the revenge for 1962.

Man, I should stop here :oops:

Edit: AFAIK, neither India nor China have Chimera in their mythologies. So using something foreign like that doesn't seem too good.
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by nitinr »

I liek Chimera..
Any other i can think of is Mirage..

Why Mirage.. well what world percieves of India and China is a Mirage and this is what comes out after this face off. What you see is not exactly teh truth.
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by ashthor »

The Dawn

Dragon Sunset
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by dipak »

IMHO, since Vivekji's original proposal or plan was for 'Chimera' - the new name should be short - preferably single word.

How about 'Trident' ?

It might denote the involvement of three entities - India, China and Tibet (reinforcing separate political identity for Tibet).

PS: Thanks a lot Vivekji for your thorough, professional and realistic scenarios which are a treat for us brfites!
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by Bala Vignesh »

I honestly would prefer something more than the Clancy-Hawksley Naming complex.

Jamwalmian,I like trumpets of war. Sounds good.
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by Misraji »

Checkerboard to Checkmate: A Fictional Account of conflict in the subcontinent.
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by kulhari »

CHECKMATE
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by kulhari »

it is already there!!!
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by pragnya »

nitinr wrote:I liek Chimera..
Any other i can think of is Mirage..

Why Mirage.. well what world percieves of India and China is a Mirage and this is what comes out after this face off. What you see is not exactly teh truth.
second that.

also in a similar vein, SMOKESCREEN seems apt to me.

ps : vivek, you must be the best war writer out there. cheers...
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by chaanakya »

vivek_ahuja wrote:I think what I can do is select the top five names from this list (and also leave Chimera as the original name in there) and put it up as a poll or something like that so that we can refocus the page back to the scenario.

In other news, I thought you all might be interested in taking a look at how the manuscript is looking like after formatting. I finally crossed the 350 page mark today. 100 more to go at this point.

Here's a chapter from the manuscript:

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B-Fs98 ... 19iRGFranM

I will return to posting new material within 24 hours once I finish this heavy bout of editing.

-Vivek
Sounds good. What name is finally selected by you and first posted here ( must be before commencement of poll) is guaranteed the Book. I hope you would be able to sign it? Are you in India or Abroad.
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by rsingh »

Vivek Saar you have to choose title of your book. I am sure you will come with some "mind blowing" (as they say in India) title. Guys let's not compare this with Humply Haksry's novels. That guy has a fixed "BBC" frame of understanding of world affairs: China is arrogant and strong,Chine wins, Indian leaders are Gandhiwadi and therefore expandable so they are happy to loose and UK is still relevant in world affairs.

Added later: Vivek Ahuja Saar could you please delay your next post (in case you were planning to post within next few days) because I am ( or we are) traumatized by death of Rape victim. Thanks
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by Avarachan »

I like "Himalayan Dawn." It's a great title on its own; it also alludes to the classic book on the '62 war by Brigadier J.P. Dalvi, "Himalayan Blunder" (which was published in 1968).

I also like "Tibetan Sun."
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by k prasad »

"Red Snow"

"Red Hail"

... refers to projectiles, the nature of combat, snow for the location of combat, and red is also a china reference.

Also Vivek saar.... a couple of humble suggestions.

1) Request you to kindly include lots of maps and situational maps too. Also, a larger map showing all the sectors and places, so people can follow the action. Military action, especially at this scale and level of detail is hard to imagine, especially for laymen. A larger map will definitely help. (for example, i always keep going back to the maps when i read a book like LoTR or Game of Thrones. I'm sure it'll help in your book even more)

2) Also, a detailed glossary with explanations of terms and abbreviations at the end will be a great help. I know you've integrated explanations into the scenarios in many places, but lots of times i've forgotten, and its difficult to search through the text.

3) You have done a lot of incredibly detailed analysis to come up with your numbers. Is it possible to include some of these in an appendix? Also, an appendix on the specifications of the weapon systems in the scenarios would really help laymen understand it. we might understand why a Su-30 is far better than a Jag, but normal people might not, so this sort of a spec sheet might help them (esp if a picture or two is included. The increased familiarity might help create a sense of involvement to the reader).

thanks!! Looking forward to your scenarios... i'm reading the present one from the beginning while waiting for your next few posts :-)
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by darshhan »

Avarachan wrote:I like "Himalayan Dawn." It's a great title on its own; it also alludes to the classic book on the '62 war by Brigadier J.P. Dalvi, "Himalayan Blunder" (which was published in 1968).

I also like "Tibetan Sun."
How about "Sunrise in Lhasha"?
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by k prasad »

Mihir wrote:
k prasad wrote:...
A sighting! :shock:
Haha Mihirji... I wish it didnt have to be only that. I've been quite out of the scene for a long long time now. Work and stuff been taking up way too much of time, but I try and lurk as often as I can...

... btw, last month, i got a nice view of the AEW approaching for landing at HAL from my office roof. Was quite a sight!
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by Prem »

Roar of the Tiger
Dragon Doom
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by Victor »

Something akin to Chimera is "Spectre".
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by Ajit.C »

Himalayan MELTDOWN
HOT WINTER
RAGE of the wounded TIGER
Taming the Dragon
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by Avarachan »

How about "Himalayan Fire"?

I mean no offense, but I don't care for most of the titles suggested thus far: they're a bit too obvious. The title should be somewhat subtle, right? Vivek's work is sophisticated: it's not just an India-kicks-China's-butt sort of book. If the book's title gives away too much information about the plot's direction, the reader can't enjoy the suspense as the story unfolds.
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by Ajit.C »

HOT Himalayan WINTER
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by kit »

The reason i quoted Tibetan Sun...


Any future war of china with India will see some pro democracy movement in Tibet for sure.One of the holiest places in the world deserves to be free and do what it is renowned for.Keeping its spiritual traditions.India of all nations in the world deserves to help it maintain its integrity and prevent further interference of one the most sacred traditions that has been kept alive for centuries.Indeed the Indian sun has to rise over tibet !.If viveks book can have this title then good.It does look like a good start :)
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by Prem »

Last Commie
Chindie
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by Chandragupta »

The (C)Hyena and the Tiger
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by Baikul »

vivek_ahuja: I look forward to reading your book when it comes out.

As for the title, in my opinion as a former journalist always struggling to find the perfect headline, please do spend at least 1% of the time you spent in writing the book on naming it. The title, as I'm sure you know, is the first point of entry for the reader, but not too many people spend a lot of time on it.

There are several things you may want to consider.

You may want to take a look at your subject and your target market (readers in India, readers across the globe, etc). Thus words such as 'yuddh' which while appropriate to me, by itself may not (this is an off the cuff observation) easily resonate with a western audience. Of course an English translation of dharma yuddha would be Righteous War; I like ‘A Righteous War’ as a possible title.

You may want to consider how much to 'reveal' through your title; thus your original title 'Chimera' reveals nothing about the subject matter or setting. Something like "The Elephant and the Dragon" is more suggestive, and so on. Variations on 'Red', 'Dragon', 'Elephant', 'Tiger', 'Himalayan', etc are most evocative and simplest, but there's also the risk that these are typically very commonly used in books in this genre.

You may want to consider title length, obviously. But I find that this is not a critical choice.

Personally, I like titles that are 'extracted' so to speak from earlier literature or writing on the subject, or even general literature. These are words, phrases and sentences that are evocative enough for the general reader, but also strike a chord with the expert.

For example, you may have done a lot of research on the 62 war, or experts who have commented on a coming war with China - you could try there. I did a quick google search and came up with this story, the title of which I liked: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-marg ... 99687.html. Part of the title was - "A War of Giants", which I liked. You could also read that book by Margolis on the expected India China war for more ideas.

Then, why not try our very own Kautilya for ideas? One of his chapters on war is titled: "THE ARRAY OF THE ARMY LIKE A STAFF, A SNAKE, A CIRCLE...". This may be too obscure, but the title: "Staff, Snake, Circle" jumped out at me. Of course I have not considered it in detail, and even now as I write it, it seems too obscure. But you can do some research on Kautilya to see if there is something there you like.

The Gita is another possible source.

Finally, on this very site we have a thread that can be mined I'm sure for great ideas. I'm speaking of this one: http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... f=3&t=3788
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by johneeG »

Two tigers on a mountain...(alluding to the famous chinese poverb and it is generally used when talking about India and China. It fits this scenario because the war theater is predominantly in the Himalayas, THE mountains)

Asian face-off or Asian War or War of Asia or War for Asia (or a more fancy, Clash of Asian Titans)

Fate of asia...hangs on gun barrel.

Red Fort... (a sort of pun, Red fort represents India, but also red refers to the commies, so red fort also refers to the chinis obliquely)

Coming of age... (alluding to India shedding its goody-goody image and giving a bloody nose to the chinis. Also, refers to the coming of age of 'Asian century', so it is coming of age test for both India and china).

Buddha's wrath... (similar to smiling Buddha. The point is that Buddha belongs to India, but chinese and tibetan culture have been shaped by buddhism, so Buddha is relevant to all three parties, which makes the title cryptic and does not reveal much. And Buddha is seen as a symbol of peace, just as India and Tibet are seen as 'non-violent', but in this war, they shed that image)
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by rajanb »

Valid point Johnee!

So why not the famous words which shook the world:

THE BUDDHA SMILES

Had the cheeni and cia chaddis in a twist!
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by gkriish »

vivek_ahuja wrote:DAY 9 + 1100 HRS (L)

THOUSAND KILOMETERS NORTHWEST OF THE KEELING ISLANDS
THE INDIAN OCEAN REGION


The leading Brahmos missile shattered into a thousand pieces of burning steel as an HQ-9 air-defense missile slammed into it at ten meters above sea level. The burning debris splashed into the waters at supersonic speeds and the shockwaves caused a massive transient concave cavity on the ocean surface before the water poured back in and rose up into the air like a volcano. As the wall of water fell back into the frothing ocean, two more Brahmos missiles screeched by at two times the speed of sound. Other two HQ-9 missiles fell behind and dived into the surface of the ocean.

Other HQ-9 missiles were in the air now, but they weren’t diving down into the incoming Indian anti-ship missiles. They were arcing high into the bright blue skies above as they went after the three Indian Su-30s that were now diving back to sea level at full afterburner behind a wall of chaff a hundred kilometers to the northeast. They would soon be out of the range of their intercepting missiles, but the ship and its crew that had launched those HQ-9 missiles: the Chinese 052C class Destroyer, the Lanzhou, had other more pressing concerns to take care of at the moment…

The Chinese Sovremenny class Destroyer, the Fuzhou, listed to the side and splashed deep through the waters on evasive maneuvers and turned to port while the Lanzhou moved across its starboard, exposing the full view of its close-in weapons to the two incoming Indian missiles. A kilometer back, the other 052C Air-Defense ship with the Chinese fleet, the Haikou, was already in position and its weapons opened up before the Lanzhou’s. The starboard side of the ship was covered with light smoke as the guns filled the skies with a wall of expended ammunition and a line of yellow tracers walked out from both ships just as two specks on the horizon streaked by at lightning speeds.

The first Brahmos missile streaked straight by the gunfire intended for it while the second shattered under the impact of bullets. The Captain of the Lanzhou had a good intercept angle on the second missile. But the first missile passed by the bow of the ship and slammed through the stern of the Fuzhou as it completed its evasive turn. The massive fireball shredded the aft of the ship and the still engine blades and hub detached from its driving shafts and flew into the air, over the Lanzhou to the stunned views of the bridge crew and splashed into the waters on the other side…

The Fuzhou started taking on water as it became dead in the water. The thick black column of smoke rising from the second half of the ship and the licks of flame rising into the air left no doubt about its fate. Those few lucky sailors on the front half of the ship that survived began jumping into the ocean just as the bow of the ship rose above the waterline and the Fuzhou began sinking back into the ocean stern first. The sailors in the waters near the ship were swimming as far from the massive ship as they could before it went down next to them.

But while the Fuzhou lay there gutted and sinking, the other two Sovremenny class ships in the Chinese fleet went into action against the sudden arrival of Admiral Surakshan’s Surface Action Group led by the INS Delhi to the northwest. Both the Hangzhu and the Ningbo headed straight into the Indian SAG and the ships shuddered as half a dozen supersonic Moskit missiles were ripple fired from the massive bow launchers of the ships. The missiles travelled very depressed trajectories as a result of their angled launchers and left the booster smoke trails behind on the launch ships before going supersonic and disappearing at sea level. The Captain of the Hangzhu noted in satisfaction from the bridge as he spotted large white vapor cones on his missiles as they broke through the sound barrier in the humid waters…

The Haikou went into action as well as it steamed at full speed to take position ahead of the two remaining Sovremenny ships in anticipation of the Indian counter-fire. The latter two ships broke formation and began turning away from their launch azimuth, leaving the 052C air-defense ships to do what they did best.
The Indian response was not long in waiting either. Admiral Surakshan knew exactly where the Chinese ships were because he had the P-8I aircraft trailing them from outside the defenses of the Chinese ships ever since they entered the waters of the Indian Ocean region more than a day before. The Indian ships followed INS Shivalik’s lead and began ripple firing Brahmos missiles from their vertical launch canisters in quick succession. The Delhi, Shivalik and other ships of the SAG were armed with subsonic Klub and Switchblade missiles as well, but these were reserved for action once the Brahmos missiles broke through the air-defense bubbles of the Chinese fleet and collapsed them. Within seconds of each other, eight Moskit missiles and twenty four Brahmos missiles were flying through the air and crisscrossed each other at supersonic speeds and merely a dozen meters above sea-levels…

The Haikou detected the threat and fired a salvo of HQ-9 missiles as fast as they could be cycled through the CIC computers against inbound targets. In all, seven Brahmos missiles were shredded from the skies by the Haikou before the Lanzhou caught up as well and took down another six missiles. But eleven missiles still managed to punch through once the two ships and their air-defense systems had been overwhelmed. The Hanfzhu and the Ningbo as well as all other Chinese warships opened up with their close-in weapons and filled the skies with a barrage of flying bullets, knocking out three more Brahmos missiles in that desperate melee before the final eight missiles broke through and hit their targets.

A series of thunderous explosions ripped through the calm seas and eight orange-yellow fireballs rose into the skies in quick succession, visible from kilometers around. By the time the noise dissipated away, seven different columns of black smoke rose were climbing into the blue skies above. The Lanzhou had been ripped into two by double impact of two Brahmos missiles near the same location of the ship in quick succession. The bow of the ship listed to the port and sank quickly below the roiled waters, followed soon by the remaining sections of the ship. The Haikou was dead in the water, its superstructure gutted from bow to stern and fires raging as sailors jumped into the waters below. The Hangzhu was still moving, albeit at very slow speeds as its crew attempted to control the fires raging in the aft of the ship. The Ningbo, was already listing heavily to port and its hull was far below the waterline on that side that what it should have been. Two other fleet support ships were also gone and the massive thunderclap and explosion announced that to all ships around for kilometers as the fleet’s resupply tanker detonated and shredded itself to pieces…

To the northwest, the Indian SAG was in not much better shape. The Moskit is a very potent missile and the Indian ships, lacking an effective air-defense dedicated ship, had engaged the incoming missiles with their onboard Barak anti-missile systems. Four of the incoming eight Moskits had been engaged and destroyed before they could reach the ships. One more fell to the Shivalik’s close-in weapons seconds before the three remaining Chinese missiles had ripped their way through the Indian ships. The INS Delhi’s superstructure was shredded and covered in a black column of smoke and fire as it became dead in the water. The Shivalik and the Satpura took direct hits and were decimated. As in the Chinese case, the surviving Indian sailors from both ships were jumping into ocean from the burning wrecks of their ships as Sea-King helicopters from the other ships of the group began rescue operations just as the bow of the Satpura slipped below the waters of the Indian ocean...

Hi Vivek Nice work........
i would like to ask you one question every thing about the story is good until when you speak of bhramos being intercepted by the Chinese HQ-9 and S300 in the day 2 and day 3. As my memory serves that the only air defence missiles that can intercept the Supersonic missiles were the Sea sparrow with AGES system but in your story i do see that each of bhramos is being shot by HQ9 which is no where when compared to the sea sparrow or barak for that matter and i do understand that barak is one of the best ship defence missile available..... Correct me if i am wrong.....
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by vivek_ahuja »

gkriish wrote:when you speak of bhramos being intercepted by the Chinese HQ-9 and S300 in the day 2 and day 3. As my memory serves that the only air defence missiles that can intercept the Supersonic missiles were the Sea sparrow with AGES system but in your story i do see that each of bhramos is being shot by HQ9 which is no where when compared to the sea sparrow or barak for that matter and i do understand that barak is one of the best ship defence missile available..... Correct me if i am wrong.....
Frankly, it has been made utterly clear to me that the three posts I made on naval warfare between the IN and the PLAN were the most controversial of any posts I have made here in over five years! :)

My conclusions for the post your quoted regarding the effectiveness of the 052C destroyers and their HQ-9 systems has been discusssed in detail in previous pages. It has also been refuted on a few details which I have adjusted for and corrected into the book draft of this scenario. Hopefully the BRF Scenarios Jirga will accept the revised naval scenes in the novel following the corrections and the changes.

For now, all I can say is that I am being generous to the HQ-9 system and its abilities. I would be happy for it to be proven wrong in real life and as Singha and the others here pointed out, there are numerous ways in which they can be bypassed.

Since I cannot edit those BRF posts here in the new-and-improved forum software, I would ask for you to please pass me some leniency on the grounds of "artistic license" ( :mrgreen: ) for now until the book is available.

Thanks.
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by chaanakya »

So Vivek is only in Scan mode not in firing mode.
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII

Post by vivek_ahuja »

chaanakya wrote:So Vivek is only in Scan mode not in firing mode.
Actually, I am on page number 395 of the novel right now. The final forty pages include the ending and the epilogue chapters. I am gearing up over here to finish this scenario in the coming few days and then release the book for publication. After two weeks of feverish working, I have a jihadi beard on me and have been sleeping on the keyboards while the simulations software I created for this stuff runs the numbers.

Please to be patient onlee. A blitzkrieg is to be unleashed here as we roll towards completion of this two-year work. :)

And after finishing the current scenario I have to select a good name for the book from the awesome suggestions here AND get Harper-Collins-India to pick up the book. I am in touch with their senior folks and am directing them to this thread so that they can take a look-see and realize that military techno-thriller genre is not a dead literature in India (their biggest concern).

Lot of work, as you can see. :!:
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