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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2012 16:10 
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http://finance.yahoo.com/news/china-sat ... BgAVTPwFAx.
Quote:
China satellite navigation starts services to Asia

China satellite navigation system starts offering services to Asia-Pacific users

BEIJING (AP) -- A Chinese satellite navigation network created to eventually compete with America's Global Positioning System has started offering services to Asian users outside the country.

The network's spokesman, Ran Chengqi, said in a press briefing that the Beidou system is offering from Thursday services including positioning, navigation, time and text messaging to users in the Asia-Pacific region.

China expects Beidou to generate a 400 billion yuan ($63 billion) annual market for services to the transport, meteorology and telecommunications sectors.

China, and especially its military, have long been wary of relying on the United States' dominant GPS network, fearing that Washington might take the system offline in a conflict or an emergency.


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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2012 16:12 
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D Roy wrote:
they are moving beyond AS-15 derivatives. In any case CJ-10 numbers may be in the 300-500 range already.


On the BM front,
check out the DF-16 here
http://www.aviationweek.com/Blogs.aspx? ... 024a73d061

The new IRBM may or may not be designated DF-25 but it supposedly has a range of 4000 kms.

DF-25 IRBM are nothing but Scud clones and CJ-10 are no good. India has nothing to worry about. :wink:


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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2012 16:15 
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Selamat Pagi wrote:



Another article which also pointed out 5 of the same weapon systems.
http://www.popsci.com/technology/galler ... al?image=0

To selamat Pagi I find this one is really interesting.

Quote:
The Shenlong Space Plane


Nick Kaloterakis



With a space station under construction and plans for a manned moon mission, China aims to alter the balance of power in orbit. In 2007, the nation showed off its antisatellite missiles by shooting down a decommissioned weather satellite, creating 40,000 shards of space junk in the process. Now it’s testing an unmanned orbital vehicle known as Shenlong, or Divine Dragon. Comparable to the U.S. Air Force’s X-37B space plane, the Shenlong could rapidly place satellites in orbit—and potentially carry weapons that could disable the communications, navigation, and surveillance satellites of adversaries.

Image


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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2012 16:22 
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kish wrote:

Their supel doopel tank design is a stolen one, its a T-54 vintage design. It first appeared in 1945. :lol:

You are right all Chinese tanks are nothing more than vintage T-54. India has nothing to worry about just like before 1962. :wink:
Every Indian should be encourage to think this way. :wink:


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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2012 16:46 
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Don wrote:
kish wrote:

Their supel doopel tank design is a stolen one, its a T-54 vintage design. It first appeared in 1945. :lol:

You are right all Chinese tanks are nothing more than vintage T-54. India has nothing to worry about just like before 1962. :wink:
Every Indian should be encourage to think this way. :wink:


why this confused statement? Be specific, is it not a T-54 design? Doesn't the tank have a foreign engine? Prove that it isn't?

Prove that you are intelligent enough to have a military discussion. :P


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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2012 17:32 
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^^He will be back with an answer (just not your answer) as soon as he fishes out the next debating tactic from the "Psychology for Dummies" book.


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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2012 17:39 
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Thats fine with me.

Quote:
just prove you are intelligent enough to have a military discussion


I have posted this often enough. And Guess what does he prove?


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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2012 18:32 
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Indian folks. This thread is sure for criticizing Chinese military development. Where do we compare our work and our development to China...which thread is that coming from ?

Prepare for defeat by the dragon? If so, then it is poorly named.

Anyways. The chinese know how to copy. They make shoddy workmanship yes. But, there is nothing to say, that India can do an Israel to the Chinese Arabia when it comes to fighting a real war.....as we are fond of saying that we have better tactics, technology and training than the chinese.

So yes, in a war, we might even think of the possibility of getting defeated.


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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2012 19:09 
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Don wrote:
Selamat Pagi wrote:



Another article which also pointed out 5 of the same weapon systems.
http://www.popsci.com/technology/galler ... al?image=0

To selamat Pagi I find this one is really interesting.

Quote:
The Shenlong Space Plane


Nick Kaloterakis



With a space station under construction and plans for a manned moon mission, China aims to alter the balance of power in orbit. In 2007, the nation showed off its antisatellite missiles by shooting down a decommissioned weather satellite, creating 40,000 shards of space junk in the process. Now it’s testing an unmanned orbital vehicle known as Shenlong, or Divine Dragon. Comparable to the U.S. Air Force’s X-37B space plane, the Shenlong could rapidly place satellites in orbit—and potentially carry weapons that could disable the communications, navigation, and surveillance satellites of adversaries.

Image

I also find the UAV advances very intriguing, Thanks for the link.


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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2012 19:12 
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Is the short form for Shenlong- Shlong?


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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2012 20:01 
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A BRF spy has been in China recently. BR is unavailable to mango Chinese. So too YouTube. So the people we get here are in Khanland or other countries.


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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2012 20:04 
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or paid CPC workers in China who are granted exclusive access to BRF to bear the brunt of Shiv Piskomahima for $0.5 each.


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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2012 21:15 
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China's J-20 & J-15 Fighter Aircrafts Spotted Sitting Alongside Each Other On The Tarmac

http://www.aame.in/2012/12/china-j-20-j ... rafts.html

Quote:
Image


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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2012 21:50 
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David is likely a Chinese living outside of mainland China, just like me. My favorite site is CJDBY. I would like Chinese posters to give some thoughts other than just copy/paste articles, or just keep silent.


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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2012 21:53 
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shiv wrote:
A BRF spy has been in China recently. BR is unavailable to mango Chinese. So too YouTube. So the people we get here are in Khanland or other countries.


Is that true .. if it is then it tell lot us how paranoid they are about their face saving....


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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2012 22:07 
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Hiten wrote:
China's J-20 & J-15 Fighter Aircrafts Spotted Sitting Alongside Each Other On The Tarmac

http://www.aame.in/2012/12/china-j-20-j ... rafts.html

Quote:
Image
LOL come have look we are all together take phot and shiver LOL movement.


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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2012 23:06 
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^^^

folks. Someone address how India plans to take on China with cogent, coherent plans.
How?
The US has its pivoting across Asia and rearms Japan, Taiwan and SEA.

We arm ourselves and maybe get a few more orders in, and take time ordering the Rafale,
and have internal bickering wrt to HAL.

Yet to see a cogent , overall perspective of the CONCRETE plans to safeguard our interests.

ANyways. Let me start.
What are our interests ? Safe Pak border, Safe Chin border. No attacks coming from either side...or well..good defence on both sides. We have that.
We have nuclear deterrence. We have new bases in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands.

What else. Do we have plans of war? Do we have contingency plans? Lets say we hear of Chin massing cruise missiles on Arunachal, how will we react in the next 48 hours after the news is confirmed?


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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2012 23:17 
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^^^ If you want to discuss India's plan to contain China then take it to the IA thread how many times people like you have to be told that this is China Military Watch Thread ???


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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2012 23:24 
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Sagar G wrote:
^^^ If you want to discuss India's plan to contain China then take it to the IA thread how many times people like you have to be told that this is China Military Watch Thread ???


or someone could do a china vs india; tactics, strategy, equipment, training comparison here itself. its not only indian materiel i look for.


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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2012 23:30 
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mahadevbhu wrote:
or someone could do a china vs india; tactics, strategy, equipment, training comparison here itself. its not only indian materiel i look for.


It's not what "you look for" that matters but the purpose of the thread so take your questions to the appropriate thread or create a new one but stop derailing this thread.


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PostPosted: 28 Dec 2012 01:44 
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PLAAF conducts comprehensive support drill near border with India

Quote:
The PLA Air Force (PLAAF) conducted massive air support drill near India’s border in the Chengdu Military Area Command. The drill which included nearly 100 fighters of more than 10 varieties was conducted to test the PLAAF’s ability to provide combat support. Another highlight of the drill was the use of separate runways for landing and takeoff as compared to the use of single runways for both purposes in the past.


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PostPosted: 28 Dec 2012 08:00 
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eklavya wrote:

S Korea and Taiwan are under the protection of the US. They will never help China in a military dispute with Japan. For the same reason, Japan cannot and will not ever get into a military stand-off with S Korea and Taiwan. On the other hand, Uncle Sam is encouraging Japan to get tough with China. China is fooling itself if it thinks S Korea and Taiwan will save its face.

Japan is mending fences with S Korea and Russia.


Oh you left out this.
Abe vows to improve Sino-Japanese ties
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/world ... 057369.htm

First of all I wish nothing more than Koreans, Chinese and Japanese getting along.

eklavya wrote:
US position:
Quote:
U.S. Senate passes Senkaku backing
The U.S. Senate on Thursday unanimously approved an amendment to the 2013 National Defense Authorization Act that is designed to counter attempts by China to challenge Japan's administration of the Senkaku Islands but sidesteps the question of who has ultimate sovereignty over the disputed territory.

"While the United States takes no position on the ultimate sovereignty of the Senkaku Islands, the United States acknowledges the administration of Japan over the Senkaku Islands. The unilateral actions of a third party will not affect United States acknowledgement of the administration of Japan over the Senkaku Islands," it adds.


US never came to Philippines rescue. They gave them 30million and told them to go away. Why ? because US has more strategic interest with China. Why risk US lives for a country that kick out the US in the first place.

As for Taiwan, US may have the Taiwan Relation Act but US has never ever say clearly that they will come to Taiwan rescue.
And if you follow the news in East Asia, in the last Taiwan election the pro China KMT won big time over the pro independent DPP. They even got some last minute help from US on the 1992 consensus debate. Causing many DDP to blame US for the lost of the election. Even DPP now has admit they have to work with China. Taiwan drift to independent is already effectively stopped.

Again if you following East Asian news, Japan is losing the big car market share in China big time to Koreans and yes even to US car manufacturers.
Your article says it clearly for all to see. “Uncle Sam is encouraging Japan to get tough with China.” Translated. US is USING Japan against China to US advantage and to Japanese lost.

As for Japan, China is bashing Japan everyday. What China is doing is testing US respond. Again China is sending a message to the Japanese right wing. Do not think US will come to Japan rescue.

War is not always about who has the best weapons. In this case all China needed was fishing boats and a propeller plane.


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PostPosted: 28 Dec 2012 08:13 
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Don wrote:
I also find the UAV advances very intriguing, Thanks for the link.


You are welcome. UAV is cheap and do not risk human life. China may actually use these UAV on their aircraft carriers to launch air patrol over the South China Seas.


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PostPosted: 28 Dec 2012 12:59 
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Selamat Pagi wrote:
What China is doing is testing US respond. Again China is sending a message to the Japanese right wing. Do not think US will come to Japan rescue.


:rotfl: Japan is already more powerful than China. And the US has a legal commitment to defend Japan. You are seriously deluded ...

Selamat Pagi wrote:
War is not always about who has the best weapons. In this case all China needed was fishing boats and a propeller plane.


In gambling, bluffing is also one strategy, and since China has a pretty unreliable armed forces, bluffing may be the best strategy for CPC and PLA. Unfortunately for CPC and PLA, their bluff is being called, and CPC and PLA are beginning to look pretty stupid. From stupidity the next step is humiliation, and then loss of power and privileges. CPC and PLA will stick to bluffing ... and in their time honoured fashion, retreat rather than confront.


Last edited by eklavya on 28 Dec 2012 13:02, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 28 Dec 2012 13:01 
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http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... es-380554/

Quote:
Chinese Y-20 revealed in new online pictures

By: Stephen Trimble Washington DC


New pictures have emerged showing a new Chinese military transport that is purportedly the Xian Aircraft Y-20 heavy transport.

The first known appearance of the Y-20 comes as the AVIC subsidiary specializing in commercial and military transports was expected on Chinese aviation web sites to launch flight testing of the Y-20 this year.

The pictures reveal a four-engined, high-wing transport with a T-tail that appears sized between a Boeing C-17 and Airbus A400M.

Image

The aircraft is equipped with jet engines with a lower bypass ratio fan inlet - possibly the same Soloviev D-30s that currently power Tupolev Tu-154Ms and Ilyushin Il-76Ds. The production version of the Y-20 is expected to transition to high-bypass ratio, Chinese-made WS-20 engines, depending upon their availability.

The Y-20 pictures follow the revelation of dozens of new military aircraft types introduced by Chinese airframers in recent years, including new fighters such as the Chengdu J-10 and J-20 and Shenyang J-21.

Each of the aircraft types appeared first on Chinese web sites long before their existence was acknowledged by government sources.

Xian also makes a series of regional turboprop airliners, including the MA60 and MA600, and builds the wings and fuselage of the ARJ21 regional jet.

If the Y-20 is transitioned into production, it will join a rapidly growing transport fleet for the Chinese air force (PLAAF). The PLAAF now operates a fleet of 20 Ilyushin Il-76 strategic transports, with another 30 on order.


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PostPosted: 28 Dec 2012 13:02 
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If Japan rearms china will be running to russia for protection. Well they already depend on russia for all reliable weapons.


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PostPosted: 28 Dec 2012 17:54 
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China sounding desperate about the reality of the US-Japan alliance:

Quote:
China cautiously watching Abe's defence moves
BEIJING--An anxious China is closely monitoring the early moves of new Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, in particular his call for a review of long-term defense policy.

Hua Chunying, deputy director-general of the Chinese Foreign Ministry’s Information Department, told a news conference on Dec. 27, “We are highly interested in political developments in Japan.”

Hua warned against Japan and the United States heightening tensions with China by deepening their cooperation and alliance.

“The Japan-U.S. alliance should not undermine the interests of third-party countries, including China,” she said. :lol:

China’s diplomatic authorities were watching closely if Abe would make a move that would increase tensions over the Senkaku Islands, disputed islets between the two countries.



From last month:

Quote:
Shinzo Abe criticises China over Tibet

Shinzo Abe, head of the main Japanese opposition party, has criticised China over its human rights record in Tibet, in comments that will inflame tensions with Beijing.

“I swear I will do everything in my power to change the situation in Tibet where human rights are being suppressed,” the Liberal Democratic party leader said on Tuesday. “Tibet seeks freedom and democracy and we agree on those values.”


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PostPosted: 28 Dec 2012 18:20 
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Selamat Pagi wrote:
US position:
Quote:
U.S. Senate passes Senkaku backing
The U.S. Senate on Thursday unanimously approved an amendment to the 2013 National Defense Authorization Act that is designed to counter attempts by China to challenge Japan's administration of the Senkaku Islands but sidesteps the question of who has ultimate sovereignty over the disputed territory.

"While the United States takes no position on the ultimate sovereignty of the Senkaku Islands, the United States acknowledges the administration of Japan over the Senkaku Islands. The unilateral actions of a third party will not affect United States acknowledgement of the administration of Japan over the Senkaku Islands," it adds.


Chootiya panda drones in there eagerness to post links so as to do chest beating don't even properly read the news or stuff they are posting. The bolded part says that US accepts and agrees to Japan's ownership of the disputed island and further unilateral action of third party i.e. China :lol: will have no effect on US's acknowledgement of Japan's right over the island.

Chootiya panda drones effectively prove why they are well chootiyas.


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PostPosted: 28 Dec 2012 18:35 
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Sagar, our fellow is trying to say that the US will not honour its security commitment to Taiwan, Japan, etc. Our foreign policy expert has completely missed the US "pivot to Asia", and let's just say he has a Chinese attitude to binding legal commitments. What to say? Head buried in sand ...


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PostPosted: 28 Dec 2012 18:41 
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eklavya wrote:
Sagar, our fellow is trying to say that the US will not honour its security commitment to Taiwan, Japan, etc. Our foreign policy expert has completely missed the US "pivot to Asia", and let's just say he has a Chinese attitude to binding legal commitments. What to say? Head buried in sand ...


Let's consider what he is saying is true then what I don't understand is that why isn't China moving in and taking charge of what it claims to be it's own ??? Why China is incapable of taking any military action and all the courage it can muster up is to send some non military plane and some trawlers or shit to the disputed region ??? Chinese drones chest beat about there military's great capabilities, what happens to these "capabilities" when it comes to being seen in the real world ??? Is China such a "phati ka juloos" that it can't even take charge of things it claims to be it's own from nations which are weaker that itself as it believes.


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PostPosted: 28 Dec 2012 20:00 
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China Buys Tu-22MB Bomber Production Line from Russia
http://idrw.org/?p=16838#more-16838

Don't we think in these directions or we don't need such capabilities ?
At $1.5 billion it was feasible. Not aware of the unit cost but assuming that we could
have had around 20-25 of them at around $5 billion all armed with Brahmos / Nirbhay (and longer range version )etc it
could have been useful.
US is still flying B 52 and Russia Tu 22 so these platforms still have relevance.
Basically I want to understand why don;t we a fleet of heavy bombers :-o


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PostPosted: 28 Dec 2012 21:20 
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@Sagar G.... u have to understand how chinese historically conduct their foreign policy... the best victory is the one which is won without fighting a war. eg wrt India how they have made us defensive abt AP, Ladhak just with constant propoganda, a little show of force every now and then, with pinpricks like visas on passport, protests abt dalai lama, marking a presence in POK, potraying larger than life image of their military power etc.. they have unhinged the Indian thought, psyche and action on these issues !! without even firing a bullet !!


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PostPosted: 28 Dec 2012 22:11 
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manjgu wrote:
@Sagar G.... u have to understand how chinese historically conduct their foreign policy... the best victory is the one which is won without fighting a war. eg wrt India how they have made us defensive abt AP, Ladhak just with constant propoganda, a little show of force every now and then, with pinpricks like visas on passport, protests abt dalai lama, marking a presence in POK, potraying larger than life image of their military power etc.. they have unhinged the Indian thought, psyche and action on these issues !! without even firing a bullet !!


I don't agree with you that they have dented Indian psyche by there tantrums. I am also an Indian and I can clearly see through there smokescreens. Maybe our foreign policy w.r.t. them is more defensive than it should be but even after carrying out with there rhetoric what have they achieved ??? A.P. is still a part of India, Dalai Lama still lives here and moves around freely. If they play bitchy by putting there maps on passports we stamp our maps on there's, if they protest about Dalai Lama we Yawn, if they are marking a presence in P.O.K. then we are doing the same in South China Sea and our military doesn't seem impressed with there larger than life portrayal moreover all there antics on our NE border has only resulted in our government releasing funds to set up offensive units, Brahmos regiments, re-opening of advanced landing ground, infra modernization etc etc. All there antics have only resulted in there neighbours arming themselves to there teeth and ready for a battle when PRC wishes for one. I won't classify all this as an achievement in terms of foreign policy.


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PostPosted: 28 Dec 2012 22:38 
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dhiraj wrote:
China Buys Tu-22MB Bomber Production Line from Russia
http://idrw.org/?p=16838#more-16838

Don't we think in these directions or we don't need such capabilities ?


This is the wrong thread for discussing Indian responses to China. Here we talk about the Chinese military. I have posted my response in the appropriate thread linked below
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6459&p=1383747#p1383747


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PostPosted: 28 Dec 2012 22:41 
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dhiraj wrote:
China Buys Tu-22MB Bomber Production Line from Russia
http://idrw.org/?p=16838#more-16838

Don't we think in these directions or we don't need such capabilities ?
At $1.5 billion it was feasible. Not aware of the unit cost but assuming that we could
have had around 20-25 of them at around $5 billion all armed with Brahmos / Nirbhay (and longer range version )etc it
could have been useful.
US is still flying B 52 and Russia Tu 22 so these platforms still have relevance.
Basically I want to understand why don;t we a fleet of heavy bombers :-o


But what is about a TU-22 that let's say 3 no. Su-30 MKI's cant achieve?


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PostPosted: 28 Dec 2012 22:47 
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Payload and station time. I would rather go in for PAK-DA or see if MTA etc can be converted for MPA operations with a bomb bay.


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PostPosted: 28 Dec 2012 22:56 
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darshhan wrote:
dhiraj wrote:
China Buys Tu-22MB Bomber Production Line from Russia
http://idrw.org/?p=16838#more-16838

Don't we think in these directions or we don't need such capabilities ?
At $1.5 billion it was feasible. Not aware of the unit cost but assuming that we could
have had around 20-25 of them at around $5 billion all armed with Brahmos / Nirbhay (and longer range version )etc it
could have been useful.
US is still flying B 52 and Russia Tu 22 so these platforms still have relevance.
Basically I want to understand why don;t we a fleet of heavy bombers :-o


But what is about a TU-22 that let's say 3 no. Su-30 MKI's cant achieve?


Right, which is why all these Tu-22 rumors are bogus. Neither China nor India needs to bomb defenseless countries halfway around the globe.


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PostPosted: 28 Dec 2012 23:29 
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Bheeshma wrote:
Payload and station time. I would rather go in for PAK-DA or see if MTA etc can be converted for MPA operations with a bomb bay.


OK a single TU-22 has more payload than SU-30. But two or three no. SU-30's can easily match TU-22's wrt payload. As far as range goes SU-30 has a decent range and especially more so with external fuel tanks and refuelling aircraft. TU-22s don't have that much of an advantage over SU-30's in this regard.(Referred wikipedia)

Add to this Sukhois being Fighters are much more maneuverable, hence more survivable. Another thing that adds to their survivability compared to TU-22s is their much lower radar signature.

Not to mention the expenses that are required to induct, operate and maintain these aircrafts.

In 21st century if any country goes for a weapons platform like tu-22, it only points to a serious lack of imagination. I would actually welcome China inducting these aircrafts. They are more of sitting ducks when it comes to operating in contested/denied airspace.

The report says that China is buying the production line. Now what it does with the production line remains yet to be seen.

Such weapons platforms were children of Cold war, where both US and Soviets had unlimited budgets to justify any purchase. They have very limited utility in current times.


Last edited by darshhan on 28 Dec 2012 23:53, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 28 Dec 2012 23:31 
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darshhan wrote:
The report says that China is buying the production line. Now what it does with the production line remains yet to be seen.


And isn't that the greater threat?


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PostPosted: 28 Dec 2012 23:38 
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It might be.


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