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PostPosted: 01 Mar 2013 13:15 
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Professors At IIT-Delhi have proposed a method to increase the speed of VLF communications with submarines

http://www.aame.in/2013/02/iit-delhi-pr ... 0-per.html


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PostPosted: 01 Mar 2013 18:49 
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This is the smoking gun, Jai ho CAG maharaj ki ....

The LRM developed by DRDO could not achieve the GSQR parameters as the
desired range and rate of fire or burst fire capability could not be met with a
low weight Mortar which was an inconsistency in the GSQR framed by the
Army. Director General (DG) Artillery, decided against going ahead with the
project. As a result, DRDO foreclosed the main project from December 2004
after incurring expenditure of ` 9.29 crore. Subsequently the other project for
Smoke and Illumination ammunition was also foreclosed in December 2005
after incurring an expenditure of ` 1.08 crore. Army HQ while asking for
foreclosure of the project in December 2004 accepted that the range of 10000
meters was not achievable with the low weight stipulations. It was also
accepted that a mortar system with such QRs is not available in the world
market and therefore a fresh GSQR was being initiated.


Ministry in its reply agreed with audit and stated that decision has been taken
to procure the item through global tenders by diluting the GSQR parameters.

However, the fact remains that due to unrealistic GSQR framed by the Army
and DDRD’s pursuance of it, the Staff project could not come to fruition even
after an expenditure of ` 10.37 crore.


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PostPosted: 01 Mar 2013 19:18 
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GSQR-Client Requirement
Ministry-Manager
CAG-QA/Tester
DRDO-Developer.

a typical case of IT field.

:mrgreen:


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PostPosted: 04 Mar 2013 22:34 
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X-Posting only relevant part....


Deccan chronicle :

Desi engine to power GSLV
DC | N. Arun Kumar | 22nd Feb 2013

S. Ramakrishnan.
Chennai: The Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro) has plans to launch GSLV with its indigenous cryogenic engine in May this year.

.......

Saraswat: India’s tech gap with other countries widening

Scientific advisor to the defence minister and DRDO’s director general V.K. Saraswat on Thursday lamented that India had to depend mostly on foreign nations for technology and the ap between India and other developed nations had widened in the recent past.

Delivering the inaugural address at the national propulsion conference at Indian Institute of Technology (IIT), Madras, Dr Saraswat said even though India had made greater advancements in technology based on solid and liquid rocket propulsion it needs to develop a lot in tactical missile propulsion system.

“The present state of engine technology in our country is not up to the mark and the aerospace industry in our country is at crossroads. We have achieved partial success with Kaveri engine flight tested in flying test bed abroad”, he said.

Raising concern over the dependence on foreign technology in aircraft, both defence and civilian, Dr Saraswat said the import cost of technology would cripple national economy and endanger national security, if the country’s scientists didn’t’ develop indigenous technology. :((

“We don’t have state-of-the-art indigenous system worth mentioning. Even simple fuel injection systems are not made on par with international standards”, he added.
Dr Saraswat pointed out that Indian war tanks had no engine manufactured in India and the defence forces had to rely on foreign technology for it.
----------------------

How about defect free steel casings for dumb bombs and fuzes for them?


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PostPosted: 05 Mar 2013 03:31 
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From the January 12, 2011 Tarmak007 article:

I am for international collaboration and don’t believe in 100% indigenous development, which is not possible in the current scenario. I don’t believe in reinventing the wheel. Development has to be collaborative,” Saraswat tells Anantha Krishnan M., Aviation Week’s Senior Aerospace and Defense Correspondent (India), in a one-on-one interview for the India Thought Leaders (ITL) series.
-----------------

So, I suppose Dr. Saraswat doesn't want 100% indigenisation but only indigenisation of the high value "state-of-the-art" components :mrgreen:

Setting the bar a bit high.


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PostPosted: 05 Mar 2013 05:33 
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ramana wrote:
Dr Saraswat pointed out that Indian war tanks had no engine manufactured in India and the defence forces had to rely on foreign technology for it.
----------------------

Infosys, Reliance, Mahindra and Tata would do it in 2 months flat no?


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PostPosted: 05 Mar 2013 21:19 
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It is better to have direct import rather than fake JV or screw driver license assembly.


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PostPosted: 05 Mar 2013 21:35 
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shiv wrote:
ramana wrote:
Dr Saraswat pointed out that Indian war tanks had no engine manufactured in India and the defence forces had to rely on foreign technology for it.
----------------------

Infosys, Reliance, Mahindra and Tata would do it in 2 months flat no?


Impossible

60 yrs of IITs the temples of modern India can't make a single cylinder engine for scooter/ motor cycle

If they can develop a good carburetor in two years it will be a great achievement forget CRD fuel injectors with out German inputs via BOSCH

Proof ask how much of Tata Nano engine tech came from outside

The simplest way to tank engine or diesel Sub as I often repeated here for is via ALCO engines of WDM2 or WDM 4 engines made at DLW Varanasi
The jokers at Jabalpur factory assemble TATA and Ashoka Leyland vehicles even though they had MAN multi fuel engine technology since 1960s

Even the jokers in BMEL have been making engines for Czech Tech US tech Russian tech but nothing but CKDs or the same foundry Makhi ka Makhi copy that's about it
Sorry I am taking my BP medication now


Quote:
“Frugal Engineering” was a term coined in 2006 by Renault Chief Executive Carlos Ghosen to describe the design process behind the Tata Nano. This type of design concept was designed to better the those at the bottom of the pyramid. [6] However, “A Study on Consumer Perceptions & Expectations for Tata Nano” shows that the bottom of the pyramid is not very aware of what they are getting when purchasing a Tata Nano. [7] While that paper may seem to focus on the Indian contribution, the Nano was a truly international effort. “Tata turned to Germany’s Bosch for a new engine-management system; Italy’s I.D. E. A. Institute and Trilix for styling and exterior design; India’s Sona Koyo for lightweight steering shafts; America’s Johnson Controls for the seating system; Japan’s Toyo for the engine-cooling Germany’s Behr for the heating, ventilating, and air-conditioning system; and India’s Madras Rubber Factory for tougher than normal rear tires.” [8] So to call it the Indian Car is understandable, but misleading. The Nano is an excellent example of LAPD. The "LAPD (lean principle applied product development) process is implemented with utilization of external sources of knowledge and utilization of the digital technology that support the product development process in order to complement the weakness of technological capability." [9] While the Nano is engineerd from the bottom up, the existing economies of scale from other manufactures are not to be ignored. For the Nano, Tata motors chose to "outsource 85% of the Nano’s components and use 60% fewer vendors than normal to reduce transaction costs and achieve better economies of scale".[10]


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PostPosted: 05 Mar 2013 21:46 
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It's because the joker's mandate limited them to only assembling CKDs/SKD. Only in 2006 OFBs were given mandate/permission to do R&D for new product development.

If you were not supposed to, not designed to and not allowed to do something, how can you be blamed for not getting it done?

The story of private sector is not much different either......

Saala system hi kharab hai kisko dosh de sakte hain


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PostPosted: 05 Mar 2013 21:52 
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I agree adequate funds are not assigned for R&D. Chinese R&D budget is 10 times that of India.


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PostPosted: 05 Mar 2013 22:29 
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Ok bhetrenee jawab then why did pvt sector auto giant Tata nano reach out to global village

Yehi tho maar kha Gaya Hindustan Katare Saab ji sir ji


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PostPosted: 06 Mar 2013 09:05 
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shiv wrote:
ramana wrote:
Dr Saraswat pointed out that Indian war tanks had no engine manufactured in India and the defence forces had to rely on foreign technology for it.
----------------------

Infosys, Reliance, Mahindra and Tata would do it in 2 months flat no?



You should take it up with Dr Saraswat. Those are his own words. 8)


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PostPosted: 06 Mar 2013 09:58 
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pentaiah wrote:
shiv wrote:
Infosys, Reliance, Mahindra and Tata would do it in 2 months flat no?


Impossible

60 yrs of IITs the temples of modern India can't make a single cylinder engine for scooter/ motor cycle

If they can develop a good carburetor in two years it will be a great achievement forget CRD fuel injectors with out German inputs via BOSCH

Proof ask how much of Tata Nano engine tech came from outside


Pardon me for making a pisko point here. Not only have we not produced an engine, we have an educated Indian population that has so far believed that this inability is only in government enterprises and that private enterprises in India are busy doing all those wonderful wonderful things that Public sector is not doing.

That is like getting a blindfold for a blind man. As a nation we simply have not put in the effort required because we imagine that there is already someone out there (in the private sector) who can do it and it is only the blinkered government that is preventing this tremendous private pressure from exploding out. In reality even our education and national technological level has not reached the heights that our imagination has reached. Saraswat is right in stating things like they are.


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PostPosted: 06 Mar 2013 10:03 
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On top of Myths like 50% of scientists in NASA are Indian scientists, SIlicon valley is flooded with Indians etc.

The time it takes to develop technologies and Beaucratic efforts to torpedo it are quietly kept away from the media.


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PostPosted: 06 Mar 2013 10:11 
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Aditya_V wrote:
On top of Myths like 50% of scientists in NASA are Indian scientists, SIlicon valley is flooded with Indians etc.

That has become part of the mythology - the folklore that the world of hi tech is being run by Indians, except in India where it is being suppressed by the government and politics.

The real story is far more sobering than that, and we need to get out of mythology into the reality that India is wide open for entrepreneurs who can take the country beyond Fiat/Ambassador jugaad repair depot. As a nation parents and teachers make children think that mugging up equations is the route to a great engineering future.

Sorry for the rant, but take 100 Xth or XII std kids and ask them how to fill the electrons in different orbits of an atom, they will tell you. Ask them to build a model aeroplane and most will fail. This is what we are doing here. Ask them to recite Krebs Citric Acid cycle like a poem they will tell you. Ask them to do first aid CPR on man who collapses on street and they won't have a clue.


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PostPosted: 06 Mar 2013 11:12 
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From personal experience most kids who do actually want to do something different are put down by their parents in the name of India has too much competition, you don't have the option of working like Americans! You have to compete according to the system or perish!!


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PostPosted: 06 Mar 2013 12:05 
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i dont know about this lack of education on making machines being paraded here. i studied in a private college in the early 90s and we were encouraged by profs/lecturers to do all sorts of circuits on bread boards, form our own simple PCBs for simple computers (there were many shops to fabricate simple 2-D PCBs in chennai), and we even prototyped our library management system out of our unix machine at that time. my electronics group batch-mates fabricated our college c-band dish antenna and receiver from scratch and made it work. my electrical/mechanical batch-mates installed a solar water heater for the cafeteria. all in a small dinky college campus. i think it is all up to student and his interests in the end.


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PostPosted: 06 Mar 2013 13:40 
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Quote:
merlin wrote (Page 85):

Assorted Shuklas writing this is all fine but do the services know the first thing about supporting indigenous R&D in the defence sector? Judging by the import friendly nature of the beast, the answer is a resounding no.

The answer to that is this bit from Shula's article:

Quote:
The army must be goaded into working with this coalition, and told its only option is an indigenous gun.


That is how it works in most countries, the government brings together the customer (armed forces of that country) and the developer(s)/manufacturer(s) and they agree on the design specifications, then the government okays it and releases the money to start the project. But in India, not only is the government clueless, worse still the original sin of relying on imports lies with the politicians: every arms import deal is an opportunity to enrich themselves.


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PostPosted: 06 Mar 2013 20:12 
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manish.rastogi wrote:
From personal experience most kids who do actually want to do something different are put down by their parents in the name of India has too much competition, you don't have the option of working like Americans! You have to compete according to the system or perish!!


Manish I can give you the student's side and the parents and teachers side of the story.

Indian parents look for "good employment" for their children and pay college fees for education that promises "good employment". Employers in India, including multinationals are not looking for innovation. They are looking for "employees"/coolies

So good employment means ability to be a good coolie for a handsome salary with least risk. Parents will pay good money for colleges that groom kids for what the employers want. At the end of 4 years the kid and parent has to be able to say "I got a placement in college in 7th semester and will join Accenture/Infosys"

This will anyway be the fate of 95% of graduates. The innovators and risk takers are in the 5%. India has to search for them and pay them and make it attractive for them. But India consists of parents/teachers/leaders who belong to the 95% and are unable to even recognize the value of the 5%.


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PostPosted: 07 Mar 2013 22:20 
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Exactly...trying to change the mindset won't help now when it is already too late!!
The government needs to take steps, they need to assure them good employment, cause with this much pressure out of those 5% risk takers barely 0.05% are able to go for research, innovation etc!!
No body in the government gives a sh!t for research, for god's sake copy the American system if you have to, bring research and projects in colleges and high school level!!


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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2013 00:45 
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shiv wrote:
The real story is far more sobering than that, and we need to get out of mythology into the reality that India is wide open for entrepreneurs who can take the country beyond Fiat/Ambassador jugaad repair depot. As a nation parents and teachers make children think that mugging up equations is the route to a great engineering future.

Sorry for the rant, but take 100 Xth or XII std kids and ask them how to fill the electrons in different orbits of an atom, they will tell you. Ask them to build a model aeroplane and most will fail. This is what we are doing here. Ask them to recite Krebs Citric Acid cycle like a poem they will tell you. Ask them to do first aid CPR on man who collapses on street and they won't have a clue.

Shiv,
I don't claim to have any special knowledge of this subject. I'm not sure the US is very different in that aspect. A college education is very important. That means there is quite a bit of pressure to get one. Doesn't matter what for a lot of cases. The country (that I know of) where learning doesn't necessarily mean a degree is Germany. Apprenticeship in Germany. We have the ITI too. But having 18 million engineering colleges means that the ITI degree has no value per se.


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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2013 05:10 
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manish.rastogi wrote:
Exactly...trying to change the mindset won't help now when it is already too late!!

No. "Too late" for my generation. But not too late to change the mindset of a generation that is between 15 and 25 years old today. They can ensure that their children are able to make better choices. That means that (in my view) we will start seeing major changes in about 10 to 15 years time.


Last edited by shiv on 08 Mar 2013 08:02, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2013 05:12 
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KrishnaK wrote:
The country (that I know of) where learning doesn't necessarily mean a degree is Germany. Apprenticeship in Germany. We have the ITI too. But having 18 million engineering colleges means that the ITI degree has no value per se.

One recent change for the better is a "lateral entry" into Engineering college for suitable ITI graduates where they have a 3 years course or some such thing


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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2013 10:02 
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shiv wrote:
KrishnaK wrote:
The country (that I know of) where learning doesn't necessarily mean a degree is Germany. Apprenticeship in Germany. We have the ITI too. But having 18 million engineering colleges means that the ITI degree has no value per se.

One recent change for the better is a "lateral entry" into Engineering college for suitable ITI graduates where they have a 3 years course or some such thing


Not very recent. It has been there from the early nineties at least in Maharashtra.


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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2013 00:56 
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shiv wrote:
KrishnaK wrote:
The country (that I know of) where learning doesn't necessarily mean a degree is Germany. Apprenticeship in Germany. We have the ITI too. But having 18 million engineering colleges means that the ITI degree has no value per se.

One recent change for the better is a "lateral entry" into Engineering college for suitable ITI graduates where they have a 3 years course or some such thing

That's for Diploma Graduates I think. Diploma graduates were often more capable with their hands from what I remember.


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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2013 06:24 
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Here is something I wrote in Oct 2012

There is an article by former CAS OP Mehra (1973-5 IIRC) in the latest Vayu. He reminisces of a visit to the residence of German Aircraft designer Kurt Tank and saw that every room had a fully equipped drafting table. He asked Tank why there were no IAF/HAL engineers in his sign team and Tank replied that it was related to India's caste system. On asking what this had to do with the caste system, Kurt Tank is said to have replied, "Don't you know that engineers in India discard their drafting tables as soon as they qualify because there are draughtsmen to do the job?"

This gels in with something I had read years ago about trainee engineers and engineering courses not taking welding and lathe work skills seriously because there would be welders and other men to do the job. The engineers considered themselves the "brains".

Hopefully this is changing. At least design is all computers now and no drafting board. Another welcome step IMO is the "lateral entry" to engineering college for young men who have undergone 2 or 3 years technical training courses.


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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2013 07:00 
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By prototyping mould inserts out of 3D-printed objects, the process of generating smooth, precise and accurate moulds for small objects would also become simpler. Unless one is building the likes of a submarine hull, precision is usually required on small components anyway. So 3D-printing as the step after CAD, and as a cheaper alternative to a full-blown n-dimensional CNC machine, will lessen the mazdoori component of making prototypes and hopefully shorten the think-create-learn-think again cycle.


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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2013 07:17 
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PratikDas wrote:
By prototyping mould inserts out of 3D-printed objects, the process of generating smooth, precise and accurate moulds for small objects would also become simpler. Unless one is building the likes of a submarine hull, precision is usually required on small components anyway. So 3D-printing as the step after CAD, and as a cheaper alternative to a full-blown n-dimensional CNC machine, will lessen the mazdoori component of making prototypes and hopefully shorten the think-create-learn-think again cycle.

As I see it - there are 25,000 low tech workshops n Bangalore that will do little repair jobs for you and fashion small items - mostly crudely. If you require some fine work, out of unusual materials (eg extra hard steels) it is difficult to find someone who can do it. The knowledge and skill required to make precise measurements and choose special steels for a particular job requires expertise that is greater than leaning on the job workshop experience.

Most developed western nations have plenty of people who have both the skill and the engineering/technical knowledge. That is how you have small workshop size concerns making blisks. We do have a workshop caste and an engineering caste. Private engineers do run workshops in India, but most engineers do not train to start up a workshop. Things don't work that way in India, Young engineers are training for salaried jobs. while the many Muslim kids in Bangalore will not go to college but will simply gain experience in a workshop and perform low tech repairs for cars/lorries/tractors. You need a good education to do high quality design and fashioning work, but that education will not fill your stomach in India unless you get a salaried job. You can earn a subsistence at a low tech workshop without that education.

India does not yet have an "ecosystem" where small private concerns can take on medium to high tech engineering tasks. A large company that makes aircraft or engines should be able to get 4 or 5 small firms who will manufacture nuts, bolts, rivets rings etc of the right material and sizes for small and large orders.


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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2013 14:30 
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I completely dis-agree with this beating ourselves up with our lack of ability on R&D. We have to give adequate funds for R&D. Chinese R&D budget is 10 times ours, so they get better results. Our current budget is too low. As China is facing difficulties on engine front, they assign USD 16 Billion dollars to the problem, what do we do?????


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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2013 17:26 
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Looks like finally a desi sosus in the works plus coastal surveiilance. Pleasing to hear.


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PostPosted: 10 Mar 2013 11:07 
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I got the link to the following enchanting video from a retired Air Marshal, no less, with the comment:
Quote:
Amazing glider!Why can't we have something like this in our country? You cannot because DGCA inspectors will be breathing down your neck in no time !


http://player.vimeo.com/video/39325401


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PostPosted: 10 Mar 2013 13:11 
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Farewell to foreign arms?
Quote:
Recovering from the initial embarrassment of the revelations, the government seems to have finally accepted that the long-term solution to rampant corruption is an urgent and immediate turn towards aggressive indigenisation in military manufacturing. And indications emerging from the Ministry of Defence are that such a new course of action is under preparation, and could soon be unveiled. However, the transition from being a heavy importer of military wares to creating a robust military-industrial complex within is a stroll in an unmapped minefield.
Quote:
This is mainly because China has aggressively pursued indigenisation over the past couple of decades . As a result most of its current defence budget — officially estimated at $119 billion for this year — will be spent on purchases from within the country. As such, a massive amount of money flows into its domestic military-industrial complex which has a multiplier effect — on R&D, employment generation, and battlefield surprises for adversaries.

The fact is that India's present efforts, and systems , are not up to the task of creating a robust military-industrial complex. The vested interests of the defence public sector units (DPSUs), ordnance factory board (OFB) and the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) actually symbolise what is stopping India from creating such a thriving complex, even though the country has one of the world's most dynamic manufacturing sectors. By keeping private sector on the margins of defence procurement, India has allowed itself to be caught in a vortex of imports and public sector inefficiencies.

Yet many Indian private sector players have exhibited their manufacturing capabilities, innovative leadership and growth ambitions across various segments. Several Tata group companies, L&T, the Mahindra group, Reliance and others continue to remain optimistic of a breakthrough. Whenever called in to meet a challenge these companies have shown they are capable of it. Larsen & Toubro built the hull for India's indigenous nuclear submarine and is now ready to build conventional submarines. However, the navy and the MoD do not seem to be very enthusiastic. Tata Power SED (Strategic Electronics Division) recently exhibited a 155mm/52 calibre truck mounted howitzer, developed in partnership with Denel of South Africa. The company says it is presently 50 per cent indigenous. However, the Army doesn't seem to be very excited, arguing that Denel is blacklisted in India.

The story doesn't end there. Reliance Industries Limited has committed its intent to invest about $500 million to $1 billion (approx Rs 2,750 crore to Rs 5,500 crore) in developing an aerospace centre. Reliance claimed it would hire about 1,500 people for the division. The number of such private firms with big ambitions is not limited to these few. Mahindra, Punj Lloyd, other Tata firms, and several others too have made their intent rather clear.

The challenges

But standing in the way of a turn towards aggressive indigenization are two specific challenges — DRDO's monopoly (in conjunction with public sector companies ) and the powerful influence of arms agents. "It is easy to talk about indigenisation. But in practice it is going to be extremely difficult. From Antony shedding his own Nehruvian obsessions with public sector to forcing armed forces to appreciating the need for indigenisation, it is a complicated scenario ," says the CEO of a leading Indian private sector player.

The biggest challenge would actually from the DPSUs, ordnance factories and the DRDO. They together account for around 30 per cent of the annual defence procurement, and almost 100 per cent of military research. Beyond the numbers and tall claims, these groups are today clearly bloated, inefficient monopolies. Worse, they are all directly or indirectly promoting India's heavy dependence on foreign suppliers, and this remains the worst-kept secret of Indian defence procurement.

DRDO's lofty claims do not mean much today to the Indian military, which also has to meet the challenge of insurgencies. Most of the major weapon platforms that the research agency — on its own or with other government partners — set out to make are still far from being inducted by the forces.

DRDO is no longer a robust research agency capable of catering to the growing demands of 21st century warfare. The Rama Rao Committee's recommendations for reforming DRDO were a telling story of just what's wrong. The committee said the DRDO brand was "wilting" . It pointed out that just 3 per cent of DRDO scientists had PhDs. The committee had also identified the lack of interaction with end users (the military) at all levels of project execution as among the problems. And yet, the committee's recommendations for overhauling DRDO are woefully inadequate, admits a senior MoD official.

DPSUs and ordnance factories (OFB) have also become liabilities. While the long-pending recommendation for corporatising ordnance factories (in which these government departments are turned into PSUs) has been in cold storage because of employee resistance, OFB has failed to evolve into a modern factory network. Consider the INSAS (Indian Small Arms System) rifle, meant to be the primary personal weapon of the Indian soldier; it has now been dumped by the Army. Nothing better captures the OFB problem. Today, the Indian Army and other arms of the military are scouting the global market looking to place huge orders for personal rifles.

And then there are the powerful arms dealers, who have been partnering with foreign firms to sell wares to Indian armed forces. "Middlemen are thriving because foreign companies do not have the wherewithal to navigate the Indian military-bureaucratic and political systems. We are extremely corrupt, inefficient and biased," says a senior military officer, who got himself out of an important posting in procurements after he came face to face with the ugly underbelly of Indian defence procurement.

Battlefield uncertainties have exponentially gone up in recent decades. Everything from unmanned combat vehicles to stealth technology is redefining the way we fight. The challenge, then, is to find a new architecture to create a robust military research and development culture; and an industrial complex in India. The private sector cannot be kept out of such an effort.


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PostPosted: 11 Mar 2013 09:41 
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http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Massive-revamp-of-MoD-purchase-procedure-soon/articleshow/18898667.cms
Quote:
The government is also finalizing a massive overhaul of defence procurement procedure, providing first opportunity in all contracts to Indian companies, including private sector, while placing procurement from foreign suppliers as the last option.


Quote:
"Software and consultancies are difficult to value. The value of offsets should verifiable and credible," one source explained the move.

The proposed amendments would result in defence offsets being mostly clustered around engineering services that are universally quantifiable.


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PostPosted: 11 Mar 2013 11:53 
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How come they discover this basic fact in tenth and last year of their governance? Saint did everything possible to help Agustawestland till arrest took place in Italy. He is only a Saint for "the family" and not for the nation.


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PostPosted: 12 Mar 2013 05:34 
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Quoting my own post

shiv wrote:

Most developed western nations have plenty of people who have both the skill and the engineering/technical knowledge. That is how you have small workshop size concerns making blisks.
<snip>
India does not yet have an "ecosystem" where small private concerns can take on medium to high tech engineering tasks. A large company that makes aircraft or engines should be able to get 4 or 5 small firms who will manufacture nuts, bolts, rivets rings etc of the right material and sizes for small and large orders.


http://articles.economictimes.indiatime ... eronautics
Quote:
"HAL is ready to provide technology to local entrepreneurs," HAL General Manager (Indigenisation) Poonam Srivastav said while interacting with reporters here after an event.

"HAL requires 350 to 400 spare parts for overhauling and repairing work of each Sukhoi-30 aircraft. The spare parts are currently imported from Russia," she said.

"If local entrepreneurs produce these spare parts, they will get business of Rs 10,000 crore," Srivastav added.


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PostPosted: 19 Mar 2013 18:41 
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Why government has failed to encourage private sector in defence production.


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PostPosted: 19 Mar 2013 18:45 
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shiv wrote:
Most developed western nations have plenty of people who have both the skill and the engineering/technical knowledge. That is how you have small workshop size concerns making blisks.
<snip>
India does not yet have an "ecosystem" where small private concerns can take on medium to high tech engineering tasks. A large company that makes aircraft or engines should be able to get 4 or 5 small firms who will manufacture nuts, bolts, rivets rings etc of the right material and sizes for small and large orders.


Garu these workshops are an offshoot of the industrial development which took place in the western nations, India is still in the process of developing it's industrial base maybe in two decades you will have your wish granted.


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PostPosted: 19 Mar 2013 19:57 
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Sagar G wrote:
Garu these workshops are an offshoot of the industrial development which took place in the western nations,


Yes of course. It is ironic that a lot of our engineering colleges (starting with IITs) have been geared to provide employees for the developed industries at attractive western salaries. The "training" of engineers in a 4 year course has been the be all and end-all of engineering education in India, whereas we lack research and development infra structure and funding. Naturally, who the hell will go for a lowly research post in IIT or DRDO when he can get a huge dollar salary as an employee in the US four years after school in India and a 2 year MS in Amreeka. That is what my entire generation did.


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PostPosted: 19 Mar 2013 22:12 
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Shiv, I know I'm stating the obvious here, but if the scenario you painted was true at the whole India level, we wouldn't be seeing a missile programme, a space programme, a nuclear programme, a supercomputer industry, a steel industry, auto industry, pharmaceutical sector, and so on... India with all its emigration, still possesses the top 5, top 10 or at the lowest top 12, number of scientists and engineers in the world. They're coming from somewhere!


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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2013 06:35 
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Varoon Shekhar wrote:
Shiv, I know I'm stating the obvious here, but if the scenario you painted was true at the whole India level, we wouldn't be seeing a missile programme, a space programme, a nuclear programme, a supercomputer industry, a steel industry, auto industry, pharmaceutical sector, and so on... India with all its emigration, still possesses the top 5, top 10 or at the lowest top 12, number of scientists and engineers in the world. They're coming from somewhere!


Varoon I have a theory. India started off as and remains a free society where the pursuit of personal happiness and prosperity is not necessarily discouraged, and education has always been fostered by various means even if it has had trouble reaching everyone.

What this means is that educated people were allowed to look for jobs anywhere and the west was open for Indians between 1960 and 2000. India managed to keep some educated people to herself by simply flooding the market with graduates so that although many would join DRDO and leave (sometimes in frustration) for greener pastures, someone else would be always be available to fill the slot. This probably meant loss of continuity from high attrition and difficulty in the creation of a cadre of people who had grown up in the organization. But still we had enough people to do the things you mention. But the real "disease" was the absence of a sufficiently large industrial base and research infrastructure within India that meant that most graduates coming from engineering colleges necessarily had to seek greener pastures in nations that had the jobs but needed people.

What I am implying in this post is a 180 degree turn from my earlier attitude where I used to argue that "brain drain" was a bad term to use because it implied that those left behind in India had no brains. That statement may be wrong, but it also does not mean there was no brain drain. There was brain drain because people simply had nowhere to go after an education and went abroad because that was where the jobs were. It is of course a testimony to the typical Indian penchant for searching for "gyan" India has placed so many desis as professors in western universities.


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