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PostPosted: 19 Mar 2013 04:54 
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Pakistan keeping eye on India with UAVs
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JAISALMER: Pakistan's Unmanned Aerial Vehicles ( UAV) called 'Jasoos' have been spying on security arrangements and Army activities going on in the Indian side from the international border of Pakistan adjoining Rajasthan. In the recent past, activities of these UAVs have increased.

These UAVs can be spotted at night as sparkling red lights and have become a subject of excitement and discussion among the security forces. They are active even during day time and can be recognized by the trail of smoke they leave behind. These spy planes are active across the border opposite Barmer, Jaisalmer, Bikaner and Ganganagar in Rajasthan.

Reliable sources confirming this said that Pakistan is taking help of UAVs to keep an eye on the Indian area and their activities have intensified in the past few days.

Sources said Pak had developed UAVs a few years ago with the help of America and Italy and are using them to spy on the Indian area.

Sources said these spy planes are active at a height of 1500m-2000m just 500-700 yards from the international border.

These UAVs are fitted with ultramodern powerful cameras that can capture photographs of the Indian area spanning many kilometers. They are operated from a distance of 25-30kms. The computer operators are connected to the UAVs and they receive the photographs sent by these drones, the sources said.

Though BSF is keeping a watch over the activities of UAVs, but it is not possible to take any action since they are flying within the Pakistani border. But senior officers have been informed about the UAVs, sources added.
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PostPosted: 19 Mar 2013 05:23 
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Err? Why can't they be shot down with just simple ack-ack? These are low altitude UAV's not even in the same league as Nishant.


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PostPosted: 19 Mar 2013 06:22 
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^^^ Mini UAVs operating @ 2000m alt from behind 500 yards inside Paki territory... how much far can they look... not much.. these are more for testing Indian operational prepardness and to see where our RADAR installations are (when we turn them on)... good that we have not fallen for this...one must remember Desh routinely sends high altitude drones deep into Paki Airspace, there is no need to Dothi Shiver for this...


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PostPosted: 19 Mar 2013 10:11 
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Quote:
Though BSF is keeping a watch over the activities of UAVs, but it is not possible to take any action since they are flying within the Pakistani border.
BSF does have sniper rifles that they can use. Seems to be more of leadership & policy inertia. After all, the Atlantique shot down by Indian Migs did fall over Pakistani territory when it was evesdropping on India.

Shooting down will send a subtle message - UAVs operating against India in Pakistani airspace have no immunity, like terrorists operating from Pakistani soil.


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PostPosted: 19 Mar 2013 13:35 
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^^Shooting a moving target at ranges greater than 3km compensating for wind, dust, the sun ? Are the BSF so well trained with a sniper rifle ?? I doubt it.

The real danger is when the Paki's strap bombs to these crude UAVs and send them on kamakazi missions against Indian border posts/radars/etc. Groups like the LeT etc getting their hands on these machines would also be a dangerous evolution but terrorists employing unmanned systems is inevitable.


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PostPosted: 19 Mar 2013 14:15 
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these UAVs are mainly to survey potential infiltration routes and keep note of new posts and structures on indian side.
they dont have readymade satellite imagery or even LORROS type masts.


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PostPosted: 19 Mar 2013 14:29 
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OT: which sniper rifle has range in excess of 3km?


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PostPosted: 19 Mar 2013 21:19 
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Doesn't BSF operate 105 mm IFG? Why can't they be provided with something like the ZSU-23 twin guns to take these out?


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PostPosted: 19 Mar 2013 21:27 
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adityadange wrote:
OT: which sniper rifle has range in excess of 3km?

The article mentions that the UAVs fly at the height of about 1500 meters and at just about 500 yards from the border so I guess they can be sniped at with the 50 cal ..?


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PostPosted: 19 Mar 2013 23:58 
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^ wait for high energy laser 'gun'. That will take care of paki UAVs.


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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2013 00:42 
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:D sure well.. untill that time probably the BSF can make do with the Barrett XM109 or something similar


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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2013 01:21 
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UAVs can't be shot down with a sniper gun, except maybe in some Call of Duty kind of game.

BTW, India too uses UAV in a similar role. It's not unusual to hear noise of drone's engines if you live near a border area airport. Nothing new.


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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2013 01:25 
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jamwal wrote:
UAVs can't be shot down with a sniper gun, except maybe in some Call of Duty kind of game


Maybe not with "a" sniper rifle, but with the standard issue Chinese sniper rifle, you can. I even have amateur grainy pics of PLA soldiers doing it.

So there! :P


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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2013 02:10 
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Brando wrote:
The real danger is when the Paki's strap bombs to these crude UAVs and send them on kamakazi missions against Indian border posts/radars/etc. Groups like the LeT etc getting their hands on these machines would also be a dangerous evolution but terrorists employing unmanned systems is inevitable.


Is this what China exporting to Pakis? Then these soosai-UAVs will sooosai in Raw-wali-Pindi onlee.


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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2013 09:06 
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Brando wrote:
The real danger is when the Paki's strap bombs to these crude UAVs and send them on kamakazi missions against Indian border posts/radars/etc. Groups like the LeT etc getting their hands on these machines would also be a dangerous evolution but terrorists employing unmanned systems is inevitable.


i do not see this will happen. how many UAV an army or group of terrorists are going to afford? also i dont believe that installations like radars are not defended against areal threat.
moreover for pakistan and its jihadi groups, cost of human life is less than an UAV. so for them its better to strap the bomb on some brainwashed poor jihadi and send him across the border.


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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2013 11:38 
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Brando wrote:
^^Shooting a moving target at ranges greater than 3km compensating for wind, dust, the sun ?
Their cameras arent state of the art, so to capture anything meaningful, they need to fly relatively low, slow & steady within camera range.

BSF has anti material rifles. IA has Reporter & Flycatcher supported L70. Tanks have NSV. The targets used in ship HMG & MMG AA practice are similar to these Uqaab drones. An AMR on a tripod can take these birds, that fly steady.

UAV - http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5kA4KbHHj88/T ... N%2529.jpg

Small arms target - http://www.pac.org.pk/ababeel.html

The Denel AMR that we purchased some quantities of specifically had the ability to be tripod mounted for these purposes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denel_NTW-20
http://www.denellandsystems.co.za/infan ... 0_110.html
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk20 ... 127868.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_chevpDjTmSw/S ... d4c87e.jpg

http://www.vpc.org/graphics/50Helicopters.pdf

IN uses larger Chukar drones launched from Sukanya OPVs. IA uses the following http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-def ... -army.html Note - Pakistani link

UAV's originated from target drones, especially pakistani low tech ones. The can be dealt with the same way their origins are treated.


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PostPosted: 20 Mar 2013 13:35 
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vivek_ahuja wrote:
jamwal wrote:
UAVs can't be shot down with a sniper gun, except maybe in some Call of Duty kind of game


Maybe not with "a" sniper rifle, but with the standard issue Chinese sniper rifle, you can. I even have amateur grainy pics of PLA soldiers doing it.

So there! :P


I don't get it. :-?


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PostPosted: 22 Mar 2013 07:31 
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X Posted from the “Baluchistan: The Story of Another Pakistan Military Genocide” thread.

The uniformed Jihadis of the Punjabi dominated military of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan implicated in the genocidal practice of enforced disappearances targeting Freedom Fighters in Balochistan.

One thing to be said about the Punjabi dominated Military of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan is that they certainly are well practised in committing genocide as their activities in Bangladesh back in 1970-1971 show:

Six army officers involved in abductions: DIG CID Balochistan


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PostPosted: 22 Mar 2013 07:40 
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The Islamic Republic of Pakistan admits that the defence budget was fudged for the last 5 years.

Budget paper: Extra billions given to army acknowledged


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PostPosted: 24 Mar 2013 08:29 
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X Posted.

saip wrote:
Suicide attack on check post leaves six dead in North Waziristan

Six Good Pakis

What happened to the poor bomber? Did he live or go directly to heaven?


The death toll in this particular round of Green on Green intra-Mohammadden violence by way of a demonstration of the IED Mubarak variant of the IEDology of Pakistan that saw the uniformed Jihadis of the military of the Islamic of Pakistan targetted by un-uniformed Jihadi’s they themselves created, has climbed to 8:

Suicide attack kills eight soldiers near Miranshah


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PostPosted: 24 Mar 2013 09:28 
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Its black vs Green. Black must prevail. :) AOA.
In Syria the area outside Syrian Govt control has got Sharia and Black flags. :)


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PostPosted: 24 Mar 2013 10:45 
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VinodTK wrote:
Pakistan keeping eye on India with UAVs
Quote:
These UAVs can be spotted at night as sparkling red lights and have become a subject of excitement and discussion among the security forces.

They fly their UAVs at night with their navigation lights on?


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PostPosted: 24 Mar 2013 18:20 
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arun wrote:
X Posted.

saip wrote:
Suicide attack on check post leaves six dead in North Waziristan

Six Good Pakis

What happened to the poor bomber? Did he live or go directly to heaven?


The death toll in this particular round of Green on Green intra-Mohammadden violence by way of a demonstration of the IED Mubarak variant of the IEDology of Pakistan that saw the uniformed Jihadis of the military of the Islamic of Pakistan targetted by un-uniformed Jihadi’s they themselves created, has climbed to 8:

Suicide attack kills eight soldiers near Miranshah


X Posted.

The death toll in this particular round of Green on Green intra-Mohammadden violence by way of a demonstration of the IED Mubarak variant of the IEDology of Pakistan that saw the uniformed Jihadis of the military of the Islamic of Pakistan targetted by un-uniformed Jihadi’s they themselves created, has climbed yet again and is now reported to have reached 22:

Death toll from Miramshah suicide attack reaches 22


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PostPosted: 24 Mar 2013 21:46 
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tsarkar wrote:
Quote:
Though BSF is keeping a watch over the activities of UAVs, but it is not possible to take any action since they are flying within the Pakistani border.
BSF does have sniper rifles that they can use. Seems to be more of leadership & policy inertia. After all, the Atlantique shot down by Indian Migs did fall over Pakistani territory when it was evesdropping on India.

Shooting down will send a subtle message - UAVs operating against India in Pakistani airspace have no immunity, like terrorists operating from Pakistani soil.


UAVs have been shot down by both India and Pakistan;
http://vayu-sena-aux.tripod.com/other-g ... misc1.html
http://vayu-sena-aux.tripod.com/other-P ... ckage.html

However, I don't think there is any convincing counter-UAV weapon available on either side - especially for smaller and cheap ones. During Parakram there was a daily exchange of fire and UAV overflights ... but less then 10 were claimed to be shot down between the 2 sides. I doubt AAD guns will be opened up on an aircraft w/o establishing the identity of the aircraft. UAVs do continue to fly with a certain level of impunity.


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PostPosted: 29 Mar 2013 15:53 
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X Posted from the ” ISI History and Discussions” thread.

The ununiformed Jihadis of the military of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and its intelligence service, presumably the Inter Services Intelligence Directorate ( ISID aka ISI) upto no good.

Pakistani man “who has relations working for Pakistan’s secret service and military” and himself “suspected of working for a Pakistani intelligence service since the end of at least October 2012” arrested for spying in Germany:

German police arrest Pakistani for suspicion in drone spying case


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PostPosted: 06 Apr 2013 18:32 
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Interesting & Detail Analysis on LeT by Combating Terrorism Centre (CTC) of U.S. Military Academy.

Quote:
According to our data, the mean age when a recruit joins LeT is 16.95 years, while the militants’ mean age at the time of their death is 21 years. The mean number of years between an LeT militant’s entry and death is 5.14 years.

**

The vast majority of LeT’s fighters are recruited from Pakistan’s Punjab province. While LeT’s recruitment is diversified across the north, central and southern parts of the Punjab, the highest concentration of LeT fighters have come (in order of frequency) from the districts of Gujranwala, Faisalabad, Lahore, Sheikhupura, Kasur, Sialkot, Bahawalnagar, Bahawalpur, Khanewal, and Multan.

**

According to our data, the districts of Kupwara, Baramulla and Poonch in Indian Kashmir account for almost half of all LeT militant deaths since 1989.

**

The Pakistan government insists that Pakistanis are not engaging in acts of terrorism in India or elsewhere; rather, the government claims that it is only providing diplomatic and moral support to the indigenous mujahidin fighting in India. While few entertain these claims as credible, our database indicates that this claim is false. First, the vast majority of LeT fighters are Pakistani and most are Punjabi, not Kashmiri. It is noteworthy that there is considerable overlap among the districts that produce LeT militants and those that produce Pakistan army officers, a dynamic that raises a number of questions about potentially overlapping social networks between the army and LeT.

**

Ninety percent of the militants joined LeT before they were 22 years old.

**

The scale and scope of LeT’s training is extensive. While not all who receive training see combat in places like Indian Kashmir, some estimates suggest that between 100,000 to 300,000 men have received some form of LeT training over the last two decades.

**

some of Pakistan’s best-educated young men are being dispatched to die in this unending conflict with India.

**

For deatil excerpts click HERE


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PostPosted: 06 Apr 2013 18:38 
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the report finally puts to bed with real data the nonsensical claim that terrorism is done by isolated, alienated, impoverished, uneducated and misguided youth. the let cadres are the exact opposite of that! and whats more, they are recruited from the same pool as that for the TSPA

you do the maths...


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PostPosted: 07 Apr 2013 07:38 
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X posted from the “ISI History and Discussions” thread.

Such is the way of “Jihad fi Sabilillah” or translated “Jihad in the path of Allah”.

New York Times reports that the uniformed jihadis of the military of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, in particular the Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate ( ISID aka ISI) in return for the US killing “bad Taliban” Nek Mohammed, permitted unfettered visitation rights for the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s national bird, the predator drone.

Excerpt:

Quote:
As the battles raged in South Waziristan, the station chief in Islamabad paid a visit to Gen. Ehsan ul Haq, the ISI chief, and made an offer: If the C.I.A. killed Mr. Muhammad, would the ISI allow regular armed drone flights over the tribal areas?

In secret negotiations, the terms of the bargain were set. Pakistani intelligence officials insisted that they be allowed to approve each drone strike, giving them tight control over the list of targets. And they insisted that drones fly only in narrow parts of the tribal areas — ensuring that they would not venture where Islamabad did not want the Americans going: Pakistan’s nuclear facilities, and the mountain camps where Kashmiri militants were trained for attacks in India.

The ISI and the C.I.A. agreed that all drone flights in Pakistan would operate under the C.I.A.’s covert action authority — meaning that the United States would never acknowledge the missile strikes and that Pakistan would either take credit for the individual killings or remain silent.


Read it all:

Rise of the Predators : A Secret Deal on Drones, Sealed in Blood


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PostPosted: 10 Apr 2013 21:38 
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India offered to give nuclear technology to Pakistan: WikiLeaks

Quote:
New Delhi: WikiLeaks has revealed that India had offered to share nuclear technology with Pakistan after the 1974 Pokhran nuclear test.

According to WikiLeaks and as reported by a leading English daily, the then Prime Minister Indira Gandhi informed Parliament after the July 22 tests that she had apprised her Pakistani counterpart Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto of New Delhi’s willingness to share the relevant technology.

A US Embassy cable quoted Gandhi as saying, "I have explained in my letter to Prime Minister Bhutto the peaceful nature and the economic purposes of this experiment and have also stated that India is willing to share her nuclear technology with Pakistan in the same way she is willing to share it with other countries, provided proper conditions for understanding and trust are created. I once again repeat this assurance."

Gandhi had made the offer as Pakistan was unwilling to buy the Indian assurance that the nuke test was not aimed at anybody.

But, India could not transfer the technology as the country was slapped with international sanctions that included ban on technology transfer.

In reaction to this, Gandhi had said: "It was emphasized that activities in the field of peaceful nuclear explosion are essentially research and development programmes. Against this background, the government of India fails to understand why India is being criticized on the ground that the technology necessary for the peaceful nuclear explosion is no different from that necessary for weapons programme. No technology is evil in itself: it is the use that nations make of technology which determines its character. India does not accept the principle of apartheid in any matter and technology is no exception."


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PostPosted: 13 Apr 2013 04:58 
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Guys good news 3 out of 4 of napa's saab awacs got their 72's. The last one escaped because it was parked somewhere else. Lungi dance moment.


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PostPosted: 13 Apr 2013 05:01 
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krishna_krishna wrote:
Guys good news 3 out of 4 of napa's saab awacs got their 72's. The last one escaped because it was parked somewhere else. Lungi dance moment.


Source please.


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PostPosted: 13 Apr 2013 05:09 
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Please scroll below on february'13 revelations by defe sec.:

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/swe ... tan-02377/


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PostPosted: 13 Apr 2013 08:53 
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Quote:
What even the February revelations in Pakistan hadn’t disclosed is that the attack on Minhas AB in Pakistan happened with 3 Erieye planes on the ground. One was destroyed – but 2 others were very badly damaged. That leaves Pakistan with a fleet of just 1 plane, until it gets those 2 fixed. That could explain this $170 million contract, with the sudden secrecy invoked because Pakistan doesn’t want to publicly admit the extent of the loss;

AoA.

Truely a massive sixer from the batting mujahids


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PostPosted: 14 Apr 2013 09:25 
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So that attack was a big hit for Mujahids and PAF kept it hidden ....thats a massive blow to PAF Survellence Capability.


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PostPosted: 14 Apr 2013 11:22 
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And they had to pay for it with their own money instead of having another govt pay for them the way the US does with gifted equipment such as the P-3Cs.


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PostPosted: 14 Apr 2013 15:01 
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Kartik wrote:
And they had to pay for it with their own money instead of having another govt pay for them the way the US does with gifted equipment such as the P-3Cs.


Hmmm PN & PAF surveillance and recce fleets seemed to be jinxed ... with Atantic, P-3 and now SAAB fleet lost from accidents, shot downs, spares shortage and jehadi attacks.

Also it seems only India has been able to defend against ground attacks by terrorists ... that too on at least 2 occasions IIRC. Elsewhere militants have notched up several spectaculars:

- Sri Lanka: LTTE attack which destroyed several civvy and military aircraft on ground
- Afghanistan: Taliban attack on Harrier base
- Pakistan: P-3s destroyed in Karachi and now SAAB AEWs

And I believe recent Libya conflict also saw such attacks


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PostPosted: 14 Apr 2013 15:08 
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Kartik wrote:
And they had to pay for it with their own money instead of having another govt pay for them the way the US does with gifted equipment such as the P-3Cs.


Not really, I seem to remember Saudi Arabia took the tab for the SAAB aircraft purchase when Pakistan expressed inability to pay.


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PostPosted: 14 Apr 2013 20:08 
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they have elevated the activity of having a handi of biryani and plate of kababs before saying "lost the wallet, can you pay yaar" to a art form.


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PostPosted: 14 Apr 2013 20:23 
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Singha wrote:
they have elevated the activity of having a handi of biryani and plate of kababs before saying "lost the wallet, can you pay yaar" to a art form.


More like mastered the art :rotfl: :rotfl:


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PostPosted: 14 Apr 2013 20:40 
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It is very dangerous to let powerful countries arm a terrorist country, especially porkies who terrorize Indians as a state policy as also have pointed nooks only at India.

It is more apt to understand which powerful country has let porkies get which arms, which state has sold what arms, where were which arms used against Indians etc. For example, guns from USA, UK used by porkies to shelling Indians, etc.


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