Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

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Sanku
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

Vipin_Upadhyay wrote:
Sanku wrote:
BJP cant win on its own, NDA is needed to win. That is a fact. So kindly factor that in before you start taking a ideological stance.
Sanku ji

This line of thought is what currently being peddled by NiKu, assorted Congi startegists & so called tall leaders of BJP are buying this.

But NDA can also be formed post election. If BJP gets 190, why do you think that post poll alliance is not possible?? Why this sudden WKKish paki love with NDA parties at the expense of our own BJP?
Well dont look, but you have just agreed with me. 190 is not winning 272 is winning. So you agree that NDA is needed. In that you have joined NiKu et al.
:P

The rest of the questions have been addressed before but quick recap
1) Post poll alliance --- after cutting into each others votes and scoring less than before?
2) NaMo effect bringing in a wave? Where's the number?

I am going by past vote % and looking at marginal improvements (2-3%) based on better local management, etc. Another 2-3% can come from Anti-congress-ism.

What are the numbers for NaMo effect? Where are they seen? We cant discuss anything based on conjectures.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

VikramS wrote:Hain?
Clearly .
No clearly wearly saar.

Simple question, what numbers show that BJP with or without NaMo gets +/- X seats. What breakup what basis.

Web polls, anecdotal evidence, normal logic nothing works in Indian political scene. Heck even hard core surveys get it wrong often.

Past polls have shown what matters is local unit performance, candidate selection etc etc.

Modi can help that process indirectly by providing better management. However that
1) Needs time
2) Does not need PM projection, merely election responsibility.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Rudradev »

Remember.

We owe the BJP (as an institution) NOTHING. IT claims to represent US. Under Advani, Sushma, Jaswant it has done a LOUSY job of that for 9 years.

We support Modi, and only Modi, not because we are fan boys who owe him something. We support him because he is the kind of leader we owe OURSELVES.

If Advani BJP refuses to project Modi as the PM candidate- it will have done worse than fail us out of ineptitude.It will have BETRAYED us - each and every nationalist among us -out of venal, shallow egotistic spite.

In that case BJP will not merely have lost my vote. It will have earned my active opposition.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by JohnTitor »

Chandragupta wrote:I have asked atleast 20 people - friends & family. Will you vote for Advani? The responses, including that of my father, brother, GHQ, friends, cousins & colleagues has been unanimous - 'won't even vote'. After RJB, this is the biggest Hindu cause to come to the fore.
Absolutely. I have 2 friends who were staunch congi supporters but are willing to vote for Modi as PM .. wont bother voting for BJP if NM isnt declared pre-polls.

I have always been in agreement with sankuji.. can't agree with him this time. People I know are telling me otherwise - and while I agree that they dont necessarily represent india as a whole, its better than nothing.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by VikramS »

Sanku
What about Get Out and Vote.

In Guj Elections, the 1st news which came out was that voter turn out was high, and that was Modi +ve.
Wonder why? Because people who otherwise would not have voted were now getting involved in the process, and that included the 25-30% Muslims who voted for Modi.

All the stuff you talk about, the ground calculations, the local equation, the cadre support, it starts at the top. You might call it SM Media wave, but there are no cliffs between SM & masses. The guy who appeared in the NDTV show shivBharat is karyakarta, who spoke passable English. There are going to be many many like him who are going to be energized to bring the change.

You frankly are thinking like LKA, while the game is changing right in front of you.

If BJP + with NaMo can not find enough allies post elections, then can be a re-evaluation. Any question before that is just empty posturing.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Chandragupta »

Sanku ji, I understand two points that you're basing your entire argument on :

1. There exist no numbers which show or predict the difference between a NaMo as PM BJP and a non-NaMo/nobody as PM BJP
2. Even if NaMo leads BJP to 180-200, you would still need allies, which would be hard to get in case of NaMo as PM

Did I miss anything there?

You're correct on both counts, more so on the first than the second. However, the counter arguments are that for the first time since Independence (probably), you have a man that stands for everything India needs at the moment. There can be no doubts that the people are enamored by Modi. It is safe, although not fool proof, to assume that he will get additional votes that Advani can NEVER get - which is something you should have no problems in accepting. What is that % of votes or # of seats, I don't know and I can't predict but we can agree that with Modi as the PM designate :

1. BJP cadre will be fired up much more than if Advani was at the helm or nobody was declared
2. Fence sitters will be forced to choose sides & get out of their houses to vote - mostly urban middle class - pro BJP
3. We can expect heavy turnout in 18-30 year age group & women - all due to Modi wave
4. BJP will be forced to go alone in certain states which may increase BJP's tally & reduce dependence on allies

All in all, it makes BJP's case stronger. If it chooses allies to take sides or leave NDA, then I, for one, am fine with the proposition. It exposes the fifth columnists. If Nitish leaves, we know which side he is on. Pull the rug from under his feet in Bihar, let him be chewed up by RJD-INC combine & be relegated to history.

Borrowing from the suits episode I was watching last night - if everybody is going to come at us, let's make it a big brawl.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Vipin_Upadhyay »

Rudradev wrote:
We support Modi, and only Modi, not because we are fan boys who owe him something. We support him because he is the kind of leader we owe OURSELVES.
Thanks! I have tweeted this as punchline for NaMo supporters. :)
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

VikramS wrote:Sanku
What about Get Out and Vote.

In Guj Elections, the 1st news which came out was that voter turn out was high, and that was Modi +ve.
..........
You frankly are thinking like LKA, while the game is changing right in front of you.
.
I dont see any game change in Gujarat. Modi got roughly same number of seats as last time, actually less. All the Patel etc caste figures played a role.

Congress got higher vote share%, marginally, but higher. BJP lost a point.

So yeah. Tell me again what game changed?
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

Chandragupta wrote: Did I miss anything there?
No Sir, you got it mostly.

I will add another point --
It is safe, although not fool proof, to assume that he will get additional votes that Advani can NEVER get - which is something you should have no problems in accepting. What is that % of votes or # of seats, I don't know and I can't predict
BJP would be carrying out the precise exercise that I/we have outlined here. How many with Modi, how many without. How many with overt declaration, how many with no leader but de facto Modi projection. How many with Advani projection with Modi actually leading the fight.

All these numbers will gamed and the path with highest win possibility will be taken. Politics is not about games of emotions are sentiments, emotions and sentiments are the part of politics that non politicians see. Politicians see hard nosed calculation and best chances of winning.

And no one, including Advani's own son will stand with him if the numbers show he is a liability. They will switch camps, long long time ago.

Advani exists, and is considered important, because he has a good handle on national level politics, politics mein koi kisika saga nahi hota hai.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RajeshA »

I think with an increased penetration of mainstream media, vernacular media, social media, as well as urbanization and social mixing but more importantly due to an increase in peacetime national consciousness among the people, I do think we have the potential for thinking in presidential form of government dynamics.

When the leadership of a main party is truly inspirational or a national cause capture the imagination of the people, then people vote according to presidential rules, but when there is no such factor, we vote according to local concerns and leaders and often regionally, i.e. according to parliamentary rules. Presidential rules come into effect when there are waves. So voting based on national leader and national cause means preeminence of presidential rules, otherwise parliamentary rules.

In 1984, for example, we voted according to presidential rules. I think in 1999 too we voted according to presidential rules.

I think Narendra Modi can fascinate the people to an extent that he makes presidential rule for voting kick in. If this happens, then everything really depends on the extent the national leader or national cause can penetrate into the consciousness of the people, and here the campaign and the media play an important role. The size of the wave depends solely on how far the people in India are then hooked in into this national debate.

Then established vote-banks get corroded and the floating masses are swept whole-scale into the direction of the wave.

The calculations are different depending on whether the dynamic of the election is per presidential or parliamentary rule.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

Rudradev wrote: If Advani BJP refuses to project Modi as the PM candidate- it will have done worse than fail us out of ineptitude.It will have BETRAYED us - each and every nationalist among us -out of venal, shallow egotistic spite.

In that case BJP will not merely have lost my vote. It will have earned my active opposition.
RD ji, you are being melodramatic Sir. Would you prefer 5 years of UPA to a NDA with Modi may not be PM, but in a strong role?

Seriously?

Think about it.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Pranav »

Sanku wrote: People vote not for a gleat leadel but for local candidates. Local candidate selection determines the victory in as much measure as top leadership. Also all the equations of caste, local unit cohesion in vote mobilization etc count. They are not determined by great leader alone.
Selection of local candidates is not what the current issue is. The present issue is top leadership, which is what matters most as far as performance of a government is concerned.

In any case a relatively clean leader like Modi is likely to do a better job at selecting local candidates, being under no compulsion to sell tickets like other tall leaders.
I cant even believe some will take that time pass exercise with seriousness let alone even compare it to direct voting results present and available.
Wrong. Why should Modi matter that much for say Himachal elections when he has neither chosen the candidates nor will he be CM. Modi as PM candidate asking for general election votes is a totally different scenario.
The rediff poll is junk in so far as any meaningful political insights can be gained.
Why are you fixated on rediff strawman. Have no surveys been carried out over the past six months?
Last edited by Pranav on 17 Apr 2013 13:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by muraliravi »

Sushupti wrote:Here JDU's Devesh Thakur is clearly saying that anyone else but Modi is OK as PM.

http://www.istream.com/news/watch/34840 ... rgets-Modi

Correlate above with silence of Loh Purush.
Exactly, budda does not even have the decency to hit out at jdu and support modi.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

RajeshA wrote: In 1984, for example, we voted according to presidential rules. I think in 1999 too we voted according to presidential rules.
.
Only 1984 Sir, that was a wave. One of the few genuine waves. The other was in 88-91 time frame in RJB.

There was no wave in 1991.

Even then a wave is different from a presidential election, in a wave, people vote for a party, in a presidential case, people vote for leaders.

In 1984 RG was not even know, let alone a leader. Only as Indira's son. This is a big difference. India does not vote providentially at all.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Pranav »

muraliravi wrote:
Sushupti wrote:Here JDU's Devesh Thakur is clearly saying that anyone else but Modi is OK as PM.

http://www.istream.com/news/watch/34840 ... rgets-Modi

Correlate above with silence of Loh Purush.
Exactly, budda does not even have the decency to hit out at jdu and support modi.
Advani is in Vipareeta Buddhi condition. In the grip of lust and fear.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Pranav »

Rudradev wrote:Remember.

We owe the BJP (as an institution) NOTHING. IT claims to represent US. Under Advani, Sushma, Jaswant it has done a LOUSY job of that for 9 years.

We support Modi, and only Modi, not because we are fan boys who owe him something. We support him because he is the kind of leader we owe OURSELVES.

If Advani BJP refuses to project Modi as the PM candidate- it will have done worse than fail us out of ineptitude.It will have BETRAYED us - each and every nationalist among us -out of venal, shallow egotistic spite.

In that case BJP will not merely have lost my vote. It will have earned my active opposition.
Hear, hear.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

Pranav wrote: Selection of local candidates is not what the current issue is.
Sorry boss you dont get to decide what the issue is in the face of overwhelming evidence of how people in India vote.
The rediff poll is junk in so far as any meaningful political insights can be gained.
Why are you fixated on rediff strawman. Have no surveys been carried out over the past six months?
Because some one brought it up and that was being discussed. We can discuss any other you want.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

I would say Advani is wiser that some of the supporters of Modi here who would cut the nose to spite the face, and then congratulate themselves on the achievement.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by muraliravi »

Sanku wrote:I would say Advani is wiser that some of the supporters of Modi here who would cut the nose to spite the face, and then congratulate themselves on the achievement.
Again i ask for the nth time, what is bringing different to the table than what he did in 2009.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

muraliravi wrote:
Sanku wrote:I would say Advani is wiser that some of the supporters of Modi here who would cut the nose to spite the face, and then congratulate themselves on the achievement.
Again i ask for the nth time, what is bringing different to the table than what he did in 2009.
He may be same, but conditions are different, widely different. BJP would also be positioning itself differently. With a different team. One election does not define the future for all times to come.

Sonia also brings nothing different on the table than 2009, she should therefore win again, shouldn't she?

In any case, my thesis is that BJP team is what will win or lose. That team is different, and hopefully will play differently.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

4:12 Modi never asked to be made PM candidate: Rajnath: Rediff.com's Sheela Bhatt reports: Bharatiya Janata Party President Rajnath Singh on Wednesday claimed that Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi had never sought to be projected as the BJP-led National Democratic Alliance's prime ministerial candidate.


Singh made the remark at a press conference organised by the Indian Women's Press Corps, where he faced a volley of questions about Modi and NDA ally Janata Dal-United's opposition to the Gujarat CM's nomination as the PM candidate.


Addressing the differences with JD-U over the issue, Singh categorically stated that the NDA should not be allowed to split. He added that he had not instructed the BJP's Bihar unit to walk out of the ruling coalition with the JD-U.


Speaking on the forthcoming Karnataka election, Singh claimed that the BJP's fortunes in the state would not affect national politics. He pointed out precedents of political parties winning state elections but losing out in the Parliamentary polls.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by muraliravi »

Sanku wrote:
He may be same, but conditions are different, widely different. BJP would also be positioning itself differently. With a different team. One election does not define the future for all times to come.

Sonia also brings nothing different on the table than 2009, she should therefore win again, shouldn't she?

In any case, my thesis is that BJP team is what will win or lose. That team is different, and hopefully will play differently.
Ur logic is funny. Mms is pm not sonia. Anyway its abt losers not winners. If mms loses now, i am 500% sure congress wont project him ss pm nominee in 2019. Get real man, 10 yrs out of power, the guy got his chance, why again. As u also agreed, there is no precedent like that in indian politics even at state level.

At the end of the day if modi is a problem, go with no candidate, not advani again. But i guess advani fans dont even like that option, they want to thrust a 86 year old uninspiring guy on the people and the cadre. You say, the cadre will be enthused by others, BJP lost heavily over years by an uninspired cadre in delhi, UP, in last election even in MP and rajasthan. So even if modi and co. campiagn vociferously, the moment they say "advani ko pm banaiye, the game is over, its just 2009 redux again." The cadre is just not ready to hear that.
Last edited by muraliravi on 17 Apr 2013 14:53, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by James B »

A lot of figures on Gujarat and Modi in this response by Madhu Kishwar to anti-modi campaigner. A ready reckoner if ever required on Gujarat figures.

On 15 January, Kafila published an open letter to MADHU PURNIMA KISHWAR by ZAHIR JANMOHAMED. Three months later, Kishwar has sent us a response. Given below her response are comments by Zahir Janmohamed.

http://kafila.org/2013/04/17/a-conversa ... more-17929
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

muraliravi wrote:
Ur logic is funny. Mms is pm not sonia. Anyway its abt losers not winners. If mms loses now, i am 500% sure congress wont project him ss pm nominee in 2019. Get real man, 10 yrs out of power, the guy got his chance, why again. As u also agreed, there is no precedent like that in indian politics even at state level.

At the end of the day if modi is a problem, go with no candidate, not advani again
MMS is irrelevant. MMS's projection has had zero role in congress winning or losing. He is just a bakra who goes meh everytime Madam ji clears her throat.

I am ok with no candidate, I have already said that -- that was my vote. And that is probably what will happen.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by muraliravi »

Sanku wrote:
muraliravi wrote:
Ur logic is funny. Mms is pm not sonia. Anyway its abt losers not winners. If mms loses now, i am 500% sure congress wont project him ss pm nominee in 2019. Get real man, 10 yrs out of power, the guy got his chance, why again. As u also agreed, there is no precedent like that in indian politics even at state level.

At the end of the day if modi is a problem, go with no candidate, not advani again
MMS is irrelevant. MMS's projection has had zero role in congress winning or losing. He is just a bakra who goes meh everytime Madam ji clears her throat.

I am ok with no candidate, I have already said that -- that was my vote. And that is probably what will happen.
In my opinion, if bjp really wants to keep the jdu alliance and play safe, best option is, announce that "NDA pm candidate will be decided after election". And make modi and other cm's and leaders the star campaigners and give modi an extra impetus so that public and cadre is enthused. And that way you can kind of deceive public that modi is the face (i hate to say this, but that is the truth, the public will vote for modi, but in the end he may or may not be the nda pm.. again i dont want to debate on that, my suggestion if they really want to save the alliance is what i have highlighted in bold).

If they want to go full blown, they need to conduct many more surveys in bihar to see if modi can pull the 35% vote gvl predicts (http://www.lensonnews.com/lonspecial/1/ ... -poll.html) for modi alone in bihar and how many seats that translates to.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

^^^

gvl was a disaster last time, wasnt he?
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Manish_Sharma »

There was a time when Kapil + team won us the world cup , then now came the time when Dhoni + team won us world cup.......

Everybody gets a chance to do there thing in life once, and it was Shri Advani's bhagirathi prayas which brought BJP from 2 seats in loksabha to 84 and so on. Without Advani the BJP person being Prime Minister would have remained a dream.

I remember around 1995 seeing Vajpayee - Advani - Joshi walking together with BJP workers following. That picture has remained with me ; I thought here are the next 3 generations of Prime-Ministers of India, so graceful with MM Joshi's forehead adorning Tilak, angvastram with tri-color. Well ABV became PM and he did some outstanding things like pokharan and economic surge, but finally was gone..........

Now the time has come of Modi, right now there is a feverish support for him amongst people, so this is the correct time to go full force ahead confidently, even if BJP doesn't get enough this time to form govt. that will also go in there favour. As next election there'd be more support for Modi.

But one day we'll have a time when Modi's time will also go, then somebody else will have to take his place, just like now he is taking place of Vajpayee-Advani.

:mrgreen: If somebody had said Advani being DB or not being hindu enough 1998, people would have laughed at him.

Who knows in 2023 on BR we will have a 'Sushupti 2.0' calling NaMo a traitor to hindus or slave to western multinationals and a gasbag too. :rotfl:

Right now it is in the interest of PIF to surge ahead energetically - confidently under the kesariya dhwaj of Shri Narendra Modi.

As for nitish actually his opposition can be turned into a good maya-mulayam strategy. Before polls he protests and walks out of NDA, fights the poll sucking up muslim votes from lalu-congress, after the polls are done Prime Minister Modi ji can give a big package to Bihar and Nitish has to rejoin NDA in the interest of the state.

A classic maya-mulayam move.
Last edited by Manish_Sharma on 17 Apr 2013 15:14, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

Manish_Sharma wrote: Who knows in 2023 on BR we will have a 'Sushupti 2.0' calling NaMo a traitor to hindus or slave to western multinationals and a gasbag too. :rotfl:
Actually, I already know some pure Swadeshi types already doing that. The fact that a number of Hindus are getting jail for 2002 has not gone down well with large sections of VHP either.
Right now it is in the interest of PIF to surge ahead energetically - confidently under the kesariya dhwaj of Shri Narendra Modi.
My submission is that Modi needs to be saved for next shot. Advani now, Modi next. This does not mean projecting Advani either, it means projecting a mixed bag of leaders and choosing the best solution post polls.

Funnily, this is something which Shiv-ji also agrees on (funny because while I agree with Shiv ji on all his theories and thesis, we rarely agree on specifics)
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Manish_Sharma »

Sanku wrote: My submission is that Modi needs to be saved for next shot. Advani now, Modi next. This does not mean projecting Advani either, it means projecting a mixed bag of leaders and choosing the best solution post polls.

Funnily, this is something which Shiv-ji also agrees on (funny because while I agree with Shiv ji on all his theories and thesis, we rarely agree on specifics)
I'll look up Shiv ji's post, would be great if you can point where it is.

Sanku ji I'm also not sure if Modi coming straight after IMF singh's misrule straightaway. Hence I voted for jaya in the other thread, as she can do some good clean-up of both the die-nasties and media while being dependent of bjp support. Later on Modi can come, but it'd be good for bjp to fight with declared modi for PM to prepare the bhumi for next time.

Just like ABV lost by 1 vote was a big regret for citizens and they voted more in next elections for bjp. If things don't turn out Modi's way this time then people will feel cheated and vote more next time.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Yagnasri »

BJP office in Bangalore bombed. I wonder how it plays out. INC already making stupid tiwits.

We agree on one thing - We support NaMo because he is best person for the job at present and can also win the job. We are not going to support Modi or anyone at any cost. Our loyalty is to the motherland and not any individual or family. Here is the main point INC and its gang support Dynaste at the serious cost to the nation. We do not support anyone like that.

So if BJP thinks that it wants our votes then it shall earn them in the next election - by best candidate, best programme and policies etc. Then and then only BJP will give a good account for itself. To get 175+ BJP needs to give best.

Since Nehru died INC never got majority without a waive. INC in those days was a party with all kinds of political ideas and groups. Most of them or gone now. So are most of the ideas. Now only loyalty to Italian Mafia and a great brand name and symble supported with the entire establishment of the of the Indian State remains.

Now other than AP there is no major state ruled by INC alone. It has no other leaders who can step into the shoes of Dynasty Pappu. Vishakanya and her gang had their best result in 2009 and they can only go down.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

Manish_Sharma wrote: I'll look up Shiv ji's post, would be great if you can point where it is.
It was just one line post in the Strat forum thread where you voted for JJ.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

Narayana Rao wrote: Now other than AP there is no major state ruled by INC alone. It has no other leaders who can step into the shoes of Dynasty Pappu. Vishakanya and her gang had their best result in 2009 and they can only go down.
I again warn Sir, it would be too early to write off congress. They are doing fairly well in all the local elections. No remote signs of going down.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sri »

Sanku ji. I like Advani Ji and Sushma Ji and Arun Ji. I also like Shivraj Ji and Raman Ji. But what to do I like Modi Ji more, you see. Kasam se, if Modi Ji was in Congress I will vote congress.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

Sri wrote:Sanku ji. I like Advani Ji and Sushma Ji and Arun Ji. I also like Shivraj Ji and Raman Ji. But what to do I like Modi Ji more, you see. Kasam se, if Modi Ji was in Congress I will vote congress.
:lol:
Sri-ji, no danger of that, kasam se. Modi ji could not be Modi ji if not in RSS/BJP.

I also like Modi-ji more than others. No doubt, but then, we are not the only people voting na. Had we been, this discussion was not needed.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by muraliravi »

With luv from NVS to Sanku Ji.

Lessons: Advani, please retire, Someone needs to slap BITCH SUSHMA really hard.

http://newsinsight.net/BeyondVajpayee.aspx#page=page-1

New Delhi: As important as Atal Behari Vajpayee is to the recognition that the Bharatiya Janata Party is capable of tremendous and visionary national governance, the BJP has to grow beyond him, and only Narendra Modi among the present set of leaders is capable of bringing that growth. Lal Krishna Advani, 85, does not have prime- ministerial vision and was, truth to tell, a non-performing Union home minister. He was as much Loh Purush as Manmohan Singh is India’s finest prime minister. Sushma Swaraj, Modi’s rival, who is fomenting dissent against the Gujarat chief minister via the Janata Dal (United) of Nitish Kumar and the Shiv Sena rump minus Bal Thackeray, is a leader without a state or following. She was a decorative and purposeless information and broadcasting minister (I and B is a redundant ministry anyhow like railways) and there was bad blood in Karnataka on account of her alleged association with the lowlife Reddy brothers which made the papers. This writer shudders to think that anyone can wish her to be prime minister unless it is a Congress plot to keep control of things once in the opposition.

Narendra Modi cannot be more different from Vajpayee and that is perfectly natural. Originality resides in individuality and vice-versa if you didn’t know. Vajpayee was a good coalition prime minister. He had been a ranking opposition leader from the time of Jawaharlal Nehru and his prime-ministership laid the foundation for more opposition PMs to follow. Unfortunately, this didn’t happen because Vajpayee became trapped in National Democratic Alliance politics in which the BJP could not grow. Vajpayee’s chief bete noire was his deputy Advani who controlled the bloodhounds that were regularly unleashed against the prime minister. The Loh Purush versus Vikas Purush controversy was created by Advani’s men to show down Vajpayee when he was overseas. It was the nearest thing to a palace coup. This magazine and this writer vigorously opposed it. The hounding of Arun Shourie who was Vajpayee’s straightest and best cabinet minister also came at the behest of anti-Vajpayee forces. Advani may choose to forget all this but not everyone in the country suffers from memory loss. It is because of internal BJP opposition that Vajpayee had to look to the larger NDA for support and sustenance, which ultimately worked against the interests of the BJP, trapped it in coalition compulsions, and gave mediocrities like Nitish Kumar a larger-than-life persona. Because Nitish Kumar’s predecessors in Bihar were so toxic, he appears an angel in contrast. That may be all right by Bihar’s standards. But compared to Narendra Modi of Gujarat in absolute terms, he pales into insignificance. It may be good for television rating points to pit the two chief ministers against one another but it doesn’t convince serious-minded people.

At any rate, Vajpayee’s use of NDA allies to keep his BJP baiters at bay has now been adopted lock, stock and barrel by Advani and Sushma Swaraj. But history repeats as farce. The same set of people who opposed Vajpayee despite being a good prime minister now counter Modi because he has the potential to be as brilliant and even better. But Modi is cast in a different mould from Vajpayee. Obviously, he does not need the NDA as much as Vajpayee did because the BJP cadres are with him. More critically, however, he is a maximizer in a league of his own. He maximized Gujarat -- highlighting it on the world map, making him a plenipotentiary of sorts -- and he will do the same with India. He will not tolerate corruption or cronyism. He will bind the allies to working for India’s interests first. And he will apotheosize the country to unseen and unimagined levels. Of this, there can be no doubt.

Every man has ambitions for himself and Narendra Modi presumably is no different. But he has a vision for India that Advani, Sushma Swaraj and the tokenistic Nitish Kumar profoundly lack. Nitish Kumar will reduce India to a beggar nation, the same he has done to Bihar. Advani (sorry for the ageism; this writer is not getting younger) is way too manifestly over the hill, and brings nothing to the table. Sushma Swaraj is scarcely serious, breaking into a dance, if you remember, at some BJP function in Rajghat. The problem, however, is that if the Bharatiya Janata Party does not quickly circumscribe the vaulting ambitions of Advani & Co., it may be in more trouble than it reckons with the voting public. The voting public has more or less decided in favour of Modi. After nine disastrous years of Sonia Gandhi and Manmohan Singh, that is the only intelligent choice to be made. The Bharatiya Janata Party and the Rashtriya Swayamsewak Sangha do not perhaps want the Modi momentum to be dissipated by declaring his PM candidature early. But the public is also getting incensed with and weary of the BJP infighting.

The clarity of distance tells solely Narendra Modi has the capacity to spectacularly increment the votes of the Bharatiya Janata Party and bring it to power at the Centre nearly all by itself. In Bihar and Uttar Pradesh, he will be a runaway hit. The writing is on the wall. People everywhere want good governments. Why not here? All elections are risky, but Modi’s reputation as a successful risk-taker has been solidly established, and that should put him soonest at the head of the BJP campaign, necessarily after a decent and amicable parting of ways with sections of the National Democratic Alliance that won’t come along. Who dares wins.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

^^ Silly article, this is what happens when people become emotional. It has gems like
I and B is a redundant ministry anyhow like railways
Yes sir, I&B ministry the controller of all propaganda in India, and Railways are redundant ministries. Jai ho.

Also this sort of hagiography is dangerous
He will not tolerate corruption or cronyism
But has no qualms in inducting Congressmen from Guj? Or was that done at the behest of the deep state within deep state within BJP for which no proofs exists but everyone is free to rant about?

NaMo is not an idiot, he will work with the system to turn things around. He is as much a politician as anyother (as he should be) -- and he is also human.

Net net, article is high on emotions, low on substance.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Gus »

err..muraliravi...pl go easy on the fonts and language.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by member_22539 »

Mr. Sanku, you need not label anything against your point of view as silly or emotional. After all, politics is a LOT about emotions. Your disregard for the same and missionary belief in the calculative horse trading politics is disturbing. Please look above the level of politics we have seen for a long time in India.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by muraliravi »

Arun Menon wrote:Mr. Sanku, you need not label anything against your point of view as silly or emotional. After all, politics is a LOT about emotions. Your disregard for the same and missionary belief in the calculative horse trading politics is disturbing. Please look above the level of politics we have seen for a long time in India.
Exactly. If sanku sir, ur so confident, why dont you support an internal poll within bjp with karyakartas as voters. Lets see how many go with modi and how many with advani for pm. Story over, why all this confusion
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by muraliravi »

Gus wrote:err..muraliravi...pl go easy on the fonts and language.
sorry sir, by blood is boiling, i was always suspecting that bitch to be behind all the stuff against namo.
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