Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

[Sanku]

BJP is in denial over Karnataka Sunday, 12 May 2013 | Swapan Dasgupta | in Usual Suspects

This is the bluntest ever statement from SwapanDa. He just finally thought that there is no need to respect anyone.

^^Am sure sanku ji will prove swapanda wrong.

He would know the inner workings of the sangh so much better than casual commentators like swapan da after all.
.

Actually I will, and this does not require any knowledge of Sangh at all, the article is fairly poor by Swapan Da's standards, and the self contradictions are obvious.

Let us see his points

I.

verdict in Karnataka against the BJP had everything to do with the quality of administration, the venality of those associated with the party and the vengeful conduct of those who felt that they had been unjustly treated by a cabal that drew its power from Delhi. In short, it was a protest against bad governance and worse politics.

Interesting, a contradiction in the first statement its,
people responsible for the poor quality of administration + venality == vengeful conduct == Yeddurappa camp.
So what is Swapan Da saying, its ok to be venal and poor administrator as long as central BJP gives you free reign? For a right of center commentator with strong moral foundation that is particularly low.

Yeddurappa's antics were tolerated ONLY because he has a section of votes with him, so apparently, poor administration + venality + anti party activities are all justified if you can get 10% votes. Personally, I think if BJP is looking for such a deal, it may be better off merging directly with JD(S).

II.

First, even assuming that every vote for both the KJP and the BSR Congress (the outfit floated by the bent and beautiful of Bellary district) had gone in favour of a united BJP, the Congress would still have squeaked through, albeit not so conclusively. The fact, after all, remains that the Congress outpolled the combined votes of the BJP, KJP and BSR Congress by a whopping six per cent.

This is a particularly poor understanding displayed by Swapan da.

Lets see here
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home ... 997273.cms

Most early analyses have emphasized that BJP's vote share has declined by a whopping 13%, from 33.86% (2008) to 19.95% (2013). That is nearly as much as the combined vote-share gain of the KJP and BSRC. The KJP polled 9.84% and BSRC secured 2.69% of votes. As the 2008 election vote share of the undivided BJP included KJP and BSRC, one must first recognize that these political formations taken together have not lost vote-share in Karnataka. Hence, there has been no substantial shift in voter preferences for the Congress, JD(S) or BJP and its derivatives . It would be erroneous to interpret this mandate to be a decisive rejection of the BJP and its breakaway factions.

Even in 2008, Congress was ahead of BJP+KJP+BRS; Is it Swapan Da's case that the exact same vote division was acceptance of BJP in 2008 and its rejection in 2013?

Come on Swapan Da, you can do better than this.


III

The needless feud that resulted in Yeddyurappa walking out of the party he had helped build, resulted in the Mutually Assured Destruction of both the BJP and the KJP.

Umm, how did KJP get destroyed? It has polled impressive 10% in its first showing? And after arguing for ages that it was mismanagement of BJP and not the vote split, he now is saying that vote split in destroying both?

If you do a 360* rant, some points will certainly be valid, but the job of a political commentator is to tie it together in a coherent whole, an essay, not fall to pieces trying to connect contradictions.

So all in all, a fairly fairly poor piece, and I have only taken a stab at half of it. The other half is equally lousy.

=========================================================================

Also I do not get the "supporters" of BJP asking BJP to leave this or that to win--

1) First it was good that BJP left Hindutva on back burner to win.
2) Then it was ok to leave morality in terms of corruption to win.
3) Now it is also ok to say F off to governance to win.

So tell me again, is the greatest goal of supporters of BJP to make BJP into another INC and then declare victory for INC school of thought?


Heck INC school of thought is anyway winning in the country, the whole idea is that "surat badlni chahiye" (things should change)

[Sanku]

KARNATAKA HAS A LESSON FOR BJP AS WELL AS CONGRESS

by "Loh Purush"

I feel sorry that we have lost in Karnataka. But I am not surprised. The surprise would have been if we had won.

As it is, I think the Karnataka results have a profound lesson for the BJP. In a way it has a lesson also for the Congress. The common lesson for both of us is : let’s not take the common man for granted. He himself may occasionally deviate from the norms of ethical conduct, but he does feel extremely angry when he sees those at the helm of national affairs behaving immorally. This is the principal reason why there is such intense allergy towards politicians generally nowadays.


http://blog.lkadvani.in/blog-in-english ... s-congress

This is a brilliant piece -- BJP needs to return to its ideological moorings including hindutva. There are enough INC lite parties offering opposition to INC merely for the sake of personal power.

[Sushupti]

KARNATAKA HAS A LESSON FOR BJP AS WELL AS CONGRESS

by "Loh Purush"

I feel sorry that we have lost in Karnataka. But I am not surprised. The surprise would have been if we had won.

As it is, I think the Karnataka results have a profound lesson for the BJP. In a way it has a lesson also for the Congress. The common lesson for both of us is : let’s not take the common man for granted. He himself may occasionally deviate from the norms of ethical conduct, but he does feel extremely angry when he sees those at the helm of national affairs behaving immorally. This is the principal reason why there is such intense allergy towards politicians generally nowadays.


http://blog.lkadvani.in/blog-in-english ... s-congress

This is a brilliant piece -- BJP needs to return to its ideological moorings including hindutva. There are enough INC lite parties offering opposition to INC merely for the sake of personal power.

Gap between realities on the ground and his perception makes him sound like almost delusional. Regarding returning to Hindutva, Loh purush and his coterie is dead rat after calling RJB issue to be "enchashed cheque" and Jinnah secular episode, and no body will touch them even with 1000 ft barge pole. As long as they at the helm of affairs returning to ideological moorings will be nothing more than a stunt.

But he is clearly saying that Modi can bid good bye to PM post as he will keep scewing BJP prospects citing one excuse or other.

[prahaar]

I have come to believe that INC is playing the best type of "war" with BJP, by striking deep in enemy territory. Fighting in elections is the last stand aka enemy at the gates, INC is not so foolish as to wait until elections to defeat BJP. BJP's biggest drawback is almost zero elements cultivated inside the INC camp, it has almost no lever on INC except parliament deadlock, which is a very crude weapon, which cannot be used frequently. INC OTOH, learning from the previous British masters, has a lever on many elements within the BJP to influence decisions.

[negi]

Love Purush has now officially entered sosaai mode; I mean seriously even though none of us liked the BJP gobmint here in KA where were his sermons on morality when he was the HM ? What did he and his colleagues do to pursue the Gandhis in cases languishing in courts for years ? What is his own track record as an administrator ? If ideology is what BJP needs to revisit then there are likes of Arun Shourie whom the BJP needs to look up to. Love Purush makes BJP sound like INC basically one can never tell as to what nonsense he might utter.

[Singha]

Madam is a far harder and sharper leader than loh purush. Its a no contest.

[member_20292]

^^^

i was just thinking, what a good choice of wife from the point of view of rajiv gandhi.

got on with mom in law despite being firang, far more than desi maneka gandhi. maneka had a bee in the bonnet and always had some issue.

raised two kids.

hated politics. swallowed the bitter pill and took over congress in 1998 to pass the baton from rajiv in 1991 to rahul in 2013.

i would say, she's done well for herself and her family, given her umble italian background. Made her mama proud and all that!

***of course, has gained illicit wealth etc. but thats another story***

[Atri]

Love Purush has now officially entered sosaai mode;

This is right.. and This is Good.. Loh-Purush on Soosai mode is one of the better things that can happen to Bhaarata.

My worry was that he was not going on Soosai mode and resisting the urge within to do so.. Signs are telling.

Desh will fondly remember this brave son of Dharma and Bhaarata.. Namo should be shielded and kept away from Loh-Purush now.. He is priming himself now.. Things will happen in year or so.. I wish Loh Purush best of health until he goes boom.. Only Samson can pull super-structure down. It destroys Samson as well, but then that's what makes him great.. Or Ghatotkacha.. I wish he fights bravely and falls on Kauravas as he dies, killing as many of them as possible, absorbing the Indra-Shakti...

Loh purush will be doing a thankless job.. I thank him for this... If he goes on soosai mode, my respect for him will increase hundred-fold.

[Hari Seldon]

^^ EH? could you explain a tad more atri saar? I can understand sankuji's rather straightfwd theories but yours are more complex - straight outta byzantium.

Anyway, I get the 'ghatotkacha had to be sacrificed part'. But how is LKA == ghatotk? And why is his soosai going to take any kauravas with him? Looks more likely to take the handful of pandavas remaining with him only.

[Hari Seldon]

Narendra Modi's poll campaign gets merchandise boost

The Gujarat CM's supporters have already launched Modi T-shirts and are now set to launch songs, games and comic strips based on the leader.

[Patni]

If BJP had projected Modi as a Hindutva leader, it would have won Karnataka polls: Shiv Sena

Mumbai: Criticising BJP for projecting Narendra Modi as a secular leader while campaigning for Karnataka Assembly elections, NDA ally Shiv Sena on Sunday said the part would have won, if it had projected the Gujarat Chief Minister as an outright Hindutva leader.
Shiv Sena leader Sanjay Raut said, "If we would have projected Narendra Modi as an outright Hindutva leader, we would have perhaps won in Karnataka."
Raut further said, "Sonia Gandhi, Rahul Gandhi and corruption were not issues in Karnataka. Congress is the most corrupt party and yet the people of Karnataka voted them to power. The reason for this is the lack of difference between the Congress and the BJP. Perhaps a miracle would have taken place in Karnataka if the BJP had gone ahead with our Hindutva agenda."

[RoyG]

Sankuji always has a habit of supporting outdated Tin Can types. Advani has flunked state trials and is still being touted as an essential component of the NDA at the expense of Modi (Arjun). The only way for Modi to have a shot is to rectify his "flaws" and then go through state trials for another 5 years. However, even if he passes trials, his weight may be an issue. Meanwhile, Advani's foreign agent is laughing her way to the bank.

[Sushupti]

[RamaY]

1/ Loh Purush is suffering from vardhakyam. Apparently the doesn't see the difference between Sonia Gandhi and Sushma Swaraj and Rahul Gandhi and Yadyurappa. Everyone looks like my beloved grand-son syndrome. I hope he lives a happy life.

2/ Sanku ji what happened to Loh Purush when he went secular over Jinnah in 2009, and who supported Yeddi's govt until the Gali brothers started stinking?

3/ Looks like NM will be the favorite candidate of Indian Muslims in 2014.

[Pranav]

Rent-seeker Advani is the last person who should be complaining about Yeddy.

[Sanku]

Sankuji always has a habit of supporting outdated Tin Can types. Advani has flunked state trials and is still being touted as an essential component of the NDA at the expense of Modi (Arjun).

I think comparing Modi to Arjun is bad bad idea. That said, I believe you have neither understood what I have been saying in either case.

[RamaY]

This is the level of strategic thinking tactical brilliance India displays w.r.t. Iran. At this rate, it is safe to assume that no civilizational vision exists.

From Wikileaks:
Murli Deora told US Ambassador that congress trying hard to fool muslims on #Iran issue

Indian Minister for Petroleum and Natural Gas Murli Deora told the Ambassador June 28 that he had informal conversations with Iranian President Ahmedinejad 3-4 times at the Shanghai Cooperation Organization summit, and while Ahmedinejad had been reserved due to India's IAEA votes against Iran, he was forthcoming in summoning his own energy minister when Deora complained about Iran's failure to respect its pricing in a USD 22 billion gas contract. Deora -- an avowedly pro-American Congress insider close to Sonia Gandhi -- was explicit that Indian Muslims care deeply about Iran, every Muslim vote will count in upcoming make-or-break state elections in Uttar Pradesh, and Congress needs, every Muslim vote to win. As a result, Congress -- and, by extension, India -- will continue to walk the fine line between offending the United States and alienating a needed Muslim vote bank. End Summary.

Deora insisted the USG could not imagine the strength of support for Iran and ahmedinejad among Indian Muslims. Muslim groups had put 150,000 on the streets of Mumbai and 100,000 on the streets of Delhi to protest American policy before the President's March 2006 visit. If Congress loses the Muslim vote, it cannot win. Muslims were traditional Congress supporters, explained Deora, and the Congress-led government could not avoid participating in the NAM as a result. Quoting Lincoln, Deora said, "you can't fool all the people all the time," but Congress was trying hard to do so and avoid electoral disaster as Uttar Pradesh polls loom over the horizon.

So clearly, the Congress sultanate sees India's relationship with Iran through the lens of the internal dynamics of its hold on Delhi. Therefore, the Congress dispensation is intrinsically dependent on keeping India's foreign policy w.r.t Iran hostage to the Islamist factor, in order to use that as a lever within India.

therefore, it should be clear that real change within Iran's own society (with its identity faultlines) is civilizationally dependent on real change within India. When Indraprastha isn't calling, who will come? Because without India to act as a rocklike pole and offer strategic depth, Iran cannot change without being run over by more of the same or another predatory ideology from the West.

Long time ago Bji hinted about this congress mindset.

INC thinks and wants that it is the only system that can rule India. Democracy, secularism, socialism, market economy etc are all mere strategies to ensure that they renew/sanctify their rule over India.

As long as the Hindu majority is behind INC in democracy, it ignored the plight of Indian Muslims and even encouraged religious riots.

The game started changing when IG removed the vile and forced an emergency on the nation. SG's antiques during emergency fit in this pattern,

But emergency disturbed the fine balance of undeclared Congress-monarchy and democracy and brought non-congress govt into power. This pushed congress into socialist mode for next two decades.

But socialism/secularism being new avatars of Abrahamism, they made the Hindu majority wary of INC's commitment to Bharat. So they started looking out for alternatives.

RG tried to balance this by appeasing Muslim community while appeasing Hindu majority by opening Ayodhya and going assertive in SL. But it backfired as no one believed him or he died even before he could prove his loyalty to either one of the constituencies.

The rise of BJP in to power made InC go into frantic mode and they started appeasing the minorities to blackmail Hindu majority. The more assertive Hindu majority became, the more InC's appeasement of Muslims.

I am 100% sure if BJP comes to power, INC will start following Jinnah strategy.

Thus INC is blackmailing the nation - give us power without any question/condition/accountability or we will/can destroy your beloved nation.

Now it is upto the Hindu majority to find what is the best strategy -
- Submit to InC blackmailing and get them into power (as they did in 2009) and continue paying rent to INC forever
- Assert themselves, get non-congress govt into power and pay the price of Islamic disturbance instigated by INc
- Assert themselves while consciously taking Indian Muslims into confidence to make a stronger nation. I think NM is trying to do this.

[Sanku]

As far as the second twit is concerned, If NaMo is foolish enough to bring a no confidence motion against a government which has solid numbers, I would any day take Nitish's measured intelligence. Forget no confidence, even a bill which UPA wants through in the parliament can not be blocked.

This thread can certainly do better than going with every passing breeze created by a random twit on twitter.

[Sanku]

Rent-seeker Advani is the last person who should be complaining about Yeddy.

Seriously, "I will say what ever random c*** that passes on in my mind" and take that to be gospel truth, type of postings have totally ruined this and other threads, where "Arjun would start flying if 10000000000000 tanks were ordered in 3000000000000 BCE" type of gyan seems to predominate rather than realities of the world.

[RamaY]

This thread can certainly do better than going with every passing breeze created by a random twit on twitter.

Sanku ji you are doing the same.

LKA's comments on KT results do not fit to his convictions or national interests. If he is so sure of his convictions, he should have acted proactively three years ago and solved the problem.

LKA did nothing proactive to build BJP's case since 2009. Instead he became a millstone in BJP's neck whenever it tried to be assertive.

LKA's strategy of sitting in opposition while claiming moral high ground is akin to Dharmaraja's plan of settling in forests instead of going to war with Kauravas for it causes loss of human life.

He is plain wrong for the past 5 years. I am sure he has good intentions at heart and is a good person. But India cannot have another term or two of congress govt so LKA can become next Dharmaraja. He is becoming next MKG on Hindu majority.

[Sanku]

This thread can certainly do better than going with every passing breeze created by a random twit on twitter.

Sanku ji you are doing the same.

RamaY ji -- In terms of my responding to yes, I am doing the same, but some one has to. Some BRF threads tend to go completely into a "wish and hope" territory.

LKA's comments on KT results do not fit to his convictions or national interests. If he is so sure of his convictions, he should have acted proactively three years ago and solved the problem.

Yes, he says that himself, that Yeddi should have been chucked out much earlier, and then the whole idea of "real-politic" kept him around. He himself confesses that they did all they could to keep Yeddi, but it still wasnt enough.

Even here, if you see any number of posters saying that Yeddi should have been kept. So as one can see, there would be significant pressure on ground to keep Yeddi and the BJP brass went along with that. In the end it was still not good enough.

BJP in Kkta was doomed within first 2 years of its coming to power, and the writing was on the wall. It is a great testament to BJP central leadership that they could still keep Kkta BJP in power for 5 years. That is a big achievement.

Between Congress (and Guv and CBI) and Yeddi, clearing the first two years were a miracle, people seem to forget that.

LKA did nothing proactive to build BJP's case since 2009. Instead he became a millstone in BJP's neck whenever it tried to be assertive.

BJP central leadership, ensured a govt for BJP in Kkta and managed the state unit to last for 5 years. That is one victory.

As to mill stone -- One example please (and no not NaMo example other than that)

LKA's strategy of sitting in opposition while claiming moral high ground is akin to Dharmaraja's plan of settling in forests instead of going to war with Kauravas for it causes loss of human life.

It is important to note that Dharmraj was indeed willing to lose a lot for the path of right, that is what makes him Dharmraj. If it was only winning, Arjun and Bhim could have finished the Kauravs quietly immediately after their teenage years. There would be no Mahabharata and no Kurushetra war, and no reestablishment of Dharma.

In immediate terms, Manohar Parrikar, in Goa, instead of going for INC tactics, held his ground, and was rewarded with a full majority to a "Hindu communal party" in Xist Goa. He is still there with both his morality and image intact.

In any case Kkta over last 5 years, was a sheer mess, better BJP reinvents from ground up from Kkta, till then, let people enjoy Congress, they seem to have great faith in them.

[prahaar]

@Sankuji, was LKA unaware of operation Kamal, if a no-body like me knows about it, I am quite sure LKAji knew as well? Why is LKA silent about Bhattacharyaji, Radiaji, etc. I am pretty sure Yeddi was neither the most corrupt nor the most high-profile individual in BJP involved in corruption. The next point which LKA did not answer in his blog, why was Yeddi not re-instated after Hegde's poor charges came to light? If a Dhritarashtra encroaches Pandu's seat, there will be a blowback and that is what happened.

Why is LKAji silent about other corrupt NON-BJP leaders? I am a BJP supporter, but have no answer when people ask me about LKA's inaction on Sikh pogrom, Dawood, Bofors, I can go on. The problem is that these questions leave me helpless when arguing with any INC supporter. A tall leader like LKAji can be decisive against his opponents (even within BJP), but he should not pick on the weaker ones, yes Yeddi is weak because he cannot cause any harm to LKA's career directly, NM can, and so NM survived.

[RamaY]

In any case Kkta over last 5 years, was a sheer mess, better BJP reinvents from ground up from Kkta, till then, let people enjoy Congress, they seem to have great faith in them.

This is yatha Praja Tatha raja mindset and is very dangerous. There is no leadership in this mindset. I am surprised you took this excuse.

Dharmaraja's decision to leave the kingdom to Kauravas was not dharmic. He was leaving it to Kauravas ONLY because they were his siblings. He wouldnt have done the same if Kauravas were not his cousins. In his blind love (Same as Dhritarashtra) for his family/cousins he didn't care either for the people or for dharma. That is why Sri Krishna convinced and connived him otherwise.

LKA is doing same mistakes. Time for his vanaprastha and samnyasa.

[Sushupti]

In immediate terms, Manohar Parrikar, in Goa, instead of going for INC tactics, held his ground, and was rewarded with a full majority to a "Hindu communal party" in Xist Goa. He is still there with both his morality and image intact.

In any case Kkta over last 5 years, was a sheer mess, better BJP reinvents from ground up from Kkta, till then, let people enjoy Congress, they seem to have great faith in them.

In that case BJP should have never compromised on three key issues and set them aside to grab power i.e. Temple, 370 and UC, and should have waited untill it got full majority.

[Sanku]

@Sankuji, was LKA unaware of operation Kamal, if a no-body like me knows about it, I am quite sure LKAji knew as well? Why is LKA silent about Bhattacharyaji, Radiaji, etc. I am pretty sure Yeddi was neither the most corrupt nor the most high-profile individual in BJP involved in corruption. The next point which LKA did not answer in his blog, why was Yeddi not re-instated after Hegde's poor charges came to light? If a Dhritarashtra encroaches Pandu's seat, there will be a blowback and that is what happened.

Prahaar-ji; the issues with Yeddi were not merely that of corruption, that was one part, but that was not the only part. The two years that Yeddi had been CM were wracked with dissension from a large section of BJP, especially older BJP people, who were very unhappy with Yeddi.

Congress was continuously fishing in troubled waters, and given that the majority was thin, BJP was struggling to keep the government going.

There is a difference between doing a operation Kamal once, and using money to come to power once, and exposing one self to the charges of personal corruption. For example, in case of Gujarat, Congress tried the exact same method, of attacking the CM and destablizing the govt. But NaMo was wise enough to sidestep it, that was in large part due to his impeccable personal record. Even if some members of his govt got caught breaking the law.

Yeddi failed to do that, instead of being extra careful that he was in Congress cross hairs, he blundered all over the place and painted a big red target over himself and isolated himself from even within his party.

Why is LKAji silent about other corrupt NON-BJP leaders?

But he is not? He has been fairly outspoken on the INC issues, etc, but arent we told that on the forum that it is all hot air?

I am a BJP supporter, but have no answer when people ask me about LKA's inaction on Sikh pogrom, Dawood, Bofors, I can go on.

Well expecting BJP?ABV/LKA to magically fix issues which were already 20 years old when they came to power is a bit difficult. They did give India the best period of peace and stability that has been seen in last 20 years. The Punjab issue fixed by PVNR was smoothly moved to a very solid fix from the rough fix that PVNR has carried out.

He made sure that Kashmir was pacified, there was virtually no Naxal violence. No major terrorist attack outside Kashmir (Parliament and red fort are minor in comparison with what we have seen) -- and serious persecution of Major ones.

Compared to Parliament attack where the roots up to Afzal Guru and back were exposed, what has been done for attacks in Mumbai blasts (train) or Pune attack?

The problem is that these questions leave me helpless when arguing with any INC supporter.

Frankly prahaar ji, you should not, INCs dont have a leg to stand on, BJP loses due to many issues, but in terms of performance as govt, they are miles ahead, even in Kkta.

A tall leader like LKAji can be decisive against his opponents (even within BJP), but he should not pick on the weaker ones, yes Yeddi is weak because he cannot cause any harm to LKA's career directly, NM can, and so NM survived.

Sir Yeddi is not weak, if he was weak, he would have been treated very harshly. Yeddi is a old RSS hand, and has trememdous RSS backing, which is part of the reason why he survived as long as he did.

A person who can launch a party and win 10% votes (imagine the money he has access to waste) -- is not weak. Yeddi is strong, when your own backstabs you, there is only so much yo can do.

[Sanku]

In any case Kkta over last 5 years, was a sheer mess, better BJP reinvents from ground up from Kkta, till then, let people enjoy Congress, they seem to have great faith in them.

This is yatha Praja Tatha raja mindset and is very dangerous. There is no leadership in this mindset. I am surprised you took this excuse.

This is the reality RamaY ji. I will remind you, we are a democracy, no one will come to save us. No one should, we are responsible for it ourselves. So in a democracy, there is a two way approach, as I never tire of saying.

However, I disagree that this does not mean that there is no leadership. Would you say Manohar Parrikar was not providing leadership when he chose to bide his time?

Biding ones time is not a bad thing

Dharmaraja's decision to leave the kingdom to Kauravas was not dharmic....
That is why Sri Krishna convinced and connived him otherwise.

But he did, multiple times, and Shri Krishna never stopped him. Kurushetra war did not happen after Lakshagriha, it did not happen after the dice game, it did not happen when Pandava went to settle Indraspatha leaving Hastinapur for their brothers.

So trying to find a epic parallel is fraught with difficulties, I am not sure if exact parallels can be drawn.

[Sanku]

In that case BJP should have never compromised on three key issues and set them aside to grab power i.e. Temple, 370 and UC, and should have waited untill it got full majority.

Sir there is a BIG difference between doing some good things if you cant do perfect things and doing horrible things if you cant do perfect things.

I thought that was so very obvious.

If you cant achieve the moon, it does not mean should not try flying.

However it does not mean that wallowing in a gutter == flying since they are both != reaching the moon.

[Atri]

^^ EH? could you explain a tad more atri saar? I can understand sankuji's rather straightfwd theories but yours are more complex - straight outta byzantium.

Anyway, I get the 'ghatotkacha had to be sacrificed part'. But how is LKA == ghatotk? And why is his soosai going to take any kauravas with him? Looks more likely to take the handful of pandavas remaining with him only.

A well timed soosai of LKA will rid BJP of some of the C-system agents within the organization. Number of agents removed is directly proportional to how optimum the soosai timing is.. C-system agents within BJP are not Pandavas, saar. they are kauravas in disguise.

What remains to be seen is, how deep NM is in this game? My theory is straight forward onlee - Shield NM until Indrashakti strikes (recession). Of course, this assumes that NM is not part of C-system. No sui of suspicion so far points at NM. But then politics is weird onlee.

[Sushupti]

In that case BJP should have never compromised on three key issues and set them aside to grab power i.e. Temple, 370 and UC, and should have waited untill it got full majority.

Sir there is a BIG difference between doing some good things if you cant do perfect things and doing horrible things if you cant do perfect things.

I thought that was so very obvious.

If you cant achieve the moon, it does not mean should not try flying.

However it does not mean that wallowing in a gutter == flying since they are both != reaching the moon.

1. I thought making party grow in south was part of flying attempts and doing good things.

2. So u mean to say if a mass leader doesn't do "Shashtanga Dandavata" to so called tall central leaders(who can't win even nagarpalika elections on their own) and stands up to their shenanigans, it amounts to wallowing in gutter.

[member_23629]

In immediate terms, Manohar Parrikar, in Goa, instead of going for INC tactics, held his ground, and was rewarded with a full majority to a "Hindu communal party" in Xist Goa.

Christians are only 30% of the Goan population. It is a Hindu majority state.

[Patni]

On the day of the poll when voters line up the only thing that will matter is which idea/group/party makes them have more confident in handling the next five years and its more or less decided on the perception which is often distorted from reality. The impending recession or downturn is going to impact the middle class lot more then poor / semi-poor class. The whole socialist entitlement based vote buying schemes that INC has and will come out with is what needs to be exposed as being so destructive to health of India over longer time frame, IMHO NM does that very well and he makes it a point to address Indian youth and put lot more emphasis on education going forward and being knowledge based society then being entitlement based one!

[Sanku]

1. I thought making party grow in south was part of flying attempts and doing good things.

So, did the party really grow in the south? Or was it all cooking books to show supernormal profits by canniblizing future growth?

2. So u mean to say if a mass leader doesn't do "Shashtanga Dandavata" to so called tall central leaders(who can't win even nagarpalika elections on their own) and stands up to their shenanigans, it amounts to wallowing in gutter.

This has become a boring joke. Each of the central leaders have spent over 30 years winning any and all types of elections. Thoda zyada ho chuka hai.

[Sanku]

In immediate terms, Manohar Parrikar, in Goa, instead of going for INC tactics, held his ground, and was rewarded with a full majority to a "Hindu communal party" in Xist Goa.

Christians are only 30% of the Goan population. It is a Hindu majority state.

Yes Saar I know, but try winning a election when 30% is all dead set against you, and votes congress en bloc. You need at least 40% out of remaining 70%, viz nearly 2/3. Why do you think Mullah I Yam wins, its not that UP has Pakistani demographics?

It used to be "settled wisdom" in the past -- that BJP will never be able to really win Goa, with good reason for that chestnut (similar reasons as in other areas where minorities are 20%+)

[Muppalla]

http://www.narendramodi.in/liveevent/social/index.html

For the first time NaMo fired a salvo against UPA government related to their handling of China

[Sushupti]

Three articles by Arun Shourie after 2009 defeat. Still very much relevant.

The end of ideology
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/the-e ... y/489390/0

How the party withers away
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/how-t ... y/489889/0

Ring out the old, ring in the new
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/ring- ... w/490631/0

[saumitra_j]

Cross posting from Indian Interests thread, given high visibility of this thread.

Folks,

Francois Gautier has created a museum of Indian History in Pune. I have not visited the place myself but plan to in my next visit to Pune. I found out on FB that they are in need for some money. Please check the page yourselves on fb.

PS: I am in NO way connected to Francois Gautier....I am like most of the folks here, a jingo who does not like what the JNU walas have done to this nation!

BTW, have any of you visited Ratnagiri? If you do go in those parts, please make it a point to visit the "Patit Pavan Mandir"... they have a small exhibition of all the Indian revolutionaries murdered by the British (aka hanged) as well as some of Savarkar's personal belongings. They also show a documentary on the social work done by Savarkar and it was quite an eye opener for me as a man labelled for Hindutva by all sides was one of the greatest social reformers of the Konkan area!

Many thanks,

Saumitra

Edited based on Rudradev's sound suggestion. Apologies for earlier post.

[Rudradev]

Cross posting from Indian Interests thread, given high visibility of this thread.


Folks,

Francois Gautier has created a museum of Indian History in Pune. I have not visited the place myself but plan to in my next visit to Pune. I found out on FB that they are in need for some money. Their details are:

[deleted a/c info]

You can find more details on FB here-

Requesting you folks to donate something for the good cause.

PS: I am in NO way connected to Francois Gautier....I am like most of the folks here, a jingo who does not like what the JNU walas have done to this nation!

BTW, have any of you visited Ratnagiri? If you do go in those parts, please make it a point to visit the "Patit Pavan Mandir"... they have a small exhibition of all the Indian revolutionaries murdered by the British (aka hanged) as well as some of Savarkar's personal belongings. They also show a documentary on the social work done by Savarkar and it was quite an eye opener for me as a man labelled for Hindutva by all sides was one of the greatest social reformers of the Konkan area!

Many thanks,

Saumitra

Dear sir,

While not casting the slightest aspersions on your personal integrity and good intentions, I want to point out that as a fundraising effort the above post is a very, very, very bad idea.

If M. Gautier is indeed curating such a museum in Pune, I would applaud it and gladly contribute my money if needed. However, the people associated with officially fundraising for the museum have certain obligations when taking up a sincere effort to raise money for their cause. While putting out the request, they themselves are obliged to make public the principal details of their organization, their tax ID number, their brick & mortar address, their phone numbers (preferably landlines), their web domain if any, and as many details as possible about the specific aims of the project they want to finance. They have to make public these details of corporate identity which any interested would-be donor can easily verify, independently and directly, with a government registry.

Instead here we have a facebook page (no link?) and a bank account number which could belong to a Nigerian scam artist for all we know. There's no way for anyone to check the bona-fides of the request.

I suggest strongly that you edit/delete this post, and IF you are involved with M. Gautier's museum project, please inform its administrators that there are proper channels to be observed in a sincere effort to raise funds from the public. Otherwise, if something goes wrong, you may be liable for aiding a criminal solicitation despite yourself being completely innocent and having acted in good faith. And M. Gautier's museum (not to mention Bharat Rakshak Forum) might get a bad name into the bargain.

ADDED LATER: saumitra_j, thanks for editing your post, I've edited the quotation of it in my post as well.

[saumitra_j]

Point taken, deleted the ac details. Apologies for the stupid post. The details are there on the page..unfortunately i did not cut and paste the link.
PS. I have donated before posting here.

[VikramS]

Rudradev:

http://francoisgautier.wordpress.com/20 ... tory-pune/

He has tweeted about it also.

aurangzeb.info

[Supratik]

RD is right. There should be clear-cut procedures for collecting funds for the museum. Saumitra, if you know him or the people involved kindly convey this message.