Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

[member_23629]

Well I repeat - The only reason to for BJP to exist is to win election. It is not to uphold morality (Shri Ram, Shri Krishna, Ramayan, Geeta or even present day Matts and various Shankracharya job is to do that), to install discipline and sense or purpose or be ideologically pure (RSS, VHP) is there, or to be non corruptible (well no example from Kalyug Sorry, couldn't find one).

Agree -- The job of a political party is to win power, not to run a morality contest with the vicious rulers. For this, Sam, Dam, Dand, Bhed -- everything is justified. It is only when you capture power that you can steer the country towards your ideals. Somehow, there is an impression among some people that BJP has to be Gandhian in its approach towards politics while it is fine for Congress to screw it through any means possible, including fake media campaigns, fake CBI cases, income tax raids, smear campaigns -- if you think Gandhian morality is the right way to take on such an opponent, you are clearly delusional. I actually think that BJP has to be more shrewd and cunning than Congress to win. Only the cunning survive.

[Sanku]

Agree -- The job of a political party is to win power, not to run a morality contest with the vicious rulers. For this, Sam, Dam, Dand, Bhed -- everything is justified. It is only when you capture power that you can steer the country towards your ideals.

Tell me again how did Yeddi run the state of Kkta as per ideals?

Why should anyone believe that a party will follow ideals miraculously when it has never done so in the past?

Or is it that everyone is supposed to suspend disbelief about anything till BJP get 2/3 majority and anoints Modi as King Emperor of India and till then all is ok?

Good luck with that.

====================================

PS> I am a firm believer in real politic, in all real world matters, the world is shades of grey, and there are no clear cut solutions, however I am personally bemused by making immediate short term success, with its only criteria being winning elections as the sole measure and guide of the real world.

[member_23629]

^^ Isn't Modi running the government as per ideals of good governance? Capturing power is a separate issue and what you do after capturing it is a separate issue. You are recommending Gandhian philosophy in capturing power, which I don't agree with. One should never fuss too much about means.

Or is it that everyone is supposed to suspend disbelief about anything till BJP get 2/3 majority and anoints Modi as King Emperor of India and till then all is ok?

Well, people are perfectly ready to suspend disbelief about Congress even after all the scams -- didn't Karnataka dudes just showed suspended disbelief in Congress by giving it absolute majority? Why do you think it should be different in case of BJP?

[member_20317]

For a man who has no real power over the outside world, morality is a tempting category to feel safe with.

Sanku ji is applying the logic as I would apply but in the reverse direction. Raising the issue after the deed has been done. Morality is not a bad plank but something to be applied with foresight not an excuse to be held out upon failure. Prayaschit is also a good idea but do we see any prayaschit by people who did it.

And what do we see. NM going ahead and working all manner of people but always in control of all the snakes around. The kind of scrutiny he has been subjected to is itself a qualifying criteria. If after this much scrutiny the country fails in him the so be it. I would rather have a snake charmer do his job then have snakes do theirs.

Any common objective will fire up the imagination of people. But they do not get any confidence from a leader with a conflict ridden mind.

[chaanakya]

If one can not uphold morality in Public Life and Private Life one has no business to be in Public life. It is a short stop from Lack of Morality to Lack of legality in action. Let BJP or Congoons or for that matter any party announce that lack of Morality is desirable for being in politics and winning elections and then see the result. If not then the results are results of deception only. That is what is plaguing the Indian Politics.

Sanku ji I am sure being realist or even pragmatist does not mean being illegal or immoral or unethical. Protecting ones interest or national interest does not necessarily mean winning elections by any means. I agree with you in that short term success are not the sole measure and guide of the real world.

[Singha]

AP: Lawyer arrested for Facebook post against ex-CM Rosaiah, MLA Krishna Mohan
Krishna Mohan had complained against the advocate after she had accused him of being a 'paedophile'.

[Sanku]

^^ Isn't Modi running the government as per ideals of good governance? Capturing power is a separate issue and what you do after capturing it is a separate issue. You are recommending Gandhian philosophy in capturing power, which I don't agree with. One should never fuss too much about means.

No I am speaking specifically of BJP (chiefly Yeddi) performance in Kkta after winning elections.

But I do not agree that one should not fuss how one wins elections, how one wins will determine post victory performance for sure.

Or is it that everyone is supposed to suspend disbelief about anything till BJP get 2/3 majority and anoints Modi as King Emperor of India and till then all is ok?

Well, people are perfectly ready to suspend disbelief about Congress even after all the scams -- didn't Karnataka dudes just showed suspended disbelief in Congress by giving it absolute majority? Why do you think it should be different in case of BJP?

No people do not suspend disbelief, people vote congress for any number of reasons including castism, religion votes, part of the gravy train etc.

To get those votes, BJP should be like congress, is that what you are suggesting?

[rkirankr]

[quote="shaardula"][/quote]

So what was Siddu right about udupi mutt. This is OT here but I believe it was done and dusted with. Siddu had to bite the dust. Also there are many versions of Kanakadasa story. The one being believed widely is more popular. Being blunt is not being right. My first and last post on this topic

[member_23629]

Sanku, iron cuts iron. BJP should get the dynamics of caste, religion and gravy train right in addition to its plank of good governance as these are the only things that resonate with the Indian voters currently. Just good governance is not enough -- ask NDA.

[Sanku]

Sanku, iron cuts iron. BJP should get the dynamics of caste, religion and gravy train right in addition to its plank of good governance as these are the only things that resonate with the Indian voters currently. Just good governance is not enough -- ask NDA.

All that is fine in generic, in fact there is no doubt that even in Gujarat these calculations are paramount and they are done.

The question is specific about options available to BJP once Yeddi went rouge post coming to power.

[RajeshA]

Cross-posting from "The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition" Thread

Bharatiya Nationalists and Politics

Advani's reaction to the loss of Karnataka

I feel sorry that we have lost in Karnataka. But I am not surprised. The surprise would have been if we had won.

As it is, I think the Karnataka results have a profound lesson for the BJP. In a way it has a lesson also for the Congress. The common lesson for both of us is : let’s not take the common man for granted. He himself may occasionally deviate from the norms of ethical conduct, but he does feel extremely angry when he sees those at the helm of national affairs behaving immorally. This is the principal reason why there is such intense allergy towards politicians generally nowadays.

If corruption provokes indignation in Bangalore, why would it not cause the same feeling in New Delhi?

Actually, I hold that it is the Karnataka results that have contributed to clinching action being taken even in the matter of Coalgate and Railgate! Before Karnataka results, the Congress Party seemed determined not to do anything about the two scams even if it meant a total washout of the second half of the Budget Session.

There have been press reports that we lost Karnataka because we threw out Yeddyurappa. I have seen comments by eminent pressmen taunting the BJP: See how Soniaji overlooked the shortcomings of Virbhadra Singh, and earned an advantage for the Congress. BJP prides itself on taking a principled stand in Karnataka. The consequence is that BJP has lost even “the toehold it had acquired in the south.”

Let me first point out that BJP did not throw out Yeddi; it is he who broke away from the BJP and decided to form a factional party of his own, the KJP. In fact, when it became apparent that he was unabashedly indulging in corruption, if the party had immediately taken firm action, the course of events would have been quite different.

But for several months, frantic efforts went on somehow to keep placating him by condoning his peccadilloes. The justification given was that if the party did not adopt such a ‘pragmatic’ approach we would lose the only government that we had in the south.

During these months I often cited to colleagues the crisis the party had faced in its early years in Rajasthan. Jana Sangh, the forerunner of the BJP, was launched in 1951 by Dr. Syama Prasad Mookerji just before the First General Elections of 1952. Dr. Mookerji was elected President of the Party.

As an office-bearer of the Rajasthan Jana Sangh during the first decade of independence (1947 -57), I was witness first to the remarkable success of the party in the 1952 polls, and then to the crisis it had to confront.

In 1952, the Jana Sangh won three seats in the Lok Sabha and 35 seats in all the State Assemblies. Of the 3 seats in the Lok Sabha, two were from West Bengal (Dr. S.P. Mookerji and Shri Durga Charan Banerjee) and one from Rajasthan (Barrister Uma Shankar Trivedi).

Of the total 35 seats Jana Sangh secured in the State Assemblies, 9 came from West Bengal and 8 from Rajasthan. The crisis faced in Rajasthan owed to the fact that the party, in its election manifesto, had committed itself to abolition of the Jagirdari system; but all the 8 MLAs elected in Rajasthan were themselves Jagirdars!

When the State Assembly met, the Congress Party elected its own Speaker and offered Deputy Speakership to the Jana Sangh. Shri Lal Singh Shaktawat was elected Deputy Speaker of the House.

One of the Bills the Congress Party introduced in this very first session was the Bill to abolish Jagirdari system. When we drew the attention of our party MLAs to our party manifesto and asked them to support this particular legislation, most of them flatly refused.

We rang up Dr. Mookerji in New Delhi, and apprised him of the problem. He said he would come to Jaipur personally and speak to the MLAs.

I can never forget those days and the kind of tension we all were under at the time. The tension only increased when Dr. Mookerji arrived. Six of our eight MLAs quietly went away to their respective constituencies. These included the newly elected Deputy Speaker also. The two MLAs who stayed on met Dr. Mookerji, and conveyed to him that while they would abide by the party’s decision the rest had made up their mind to oppose the proposed Bill.

Dr. Mookerji advised the party’s office bearers to make a last effort to persuade the dissidents, but if they persisted, not to hesitate taking disciplinary action against them.

It wasn’t an easy decision to take. We were constantly in touch with Pandit Deendayal Upadhyaya also, who had been named General Secretary. I can never forget that out of the eight MLAs the party decided to expel six. And one of the two who remained was Late Shri Bhairon Singh Shekhawat, who became Chief Minister of Rajasthan three times, and later on rose to become Vice President of the Indian Union. How many parties in the country would have the guts to take this kind of decision? And the Jana Sangh demonstrated such courage even in its infancy!

No wonder, while instances can be cited when other parties do get away with gross misdemeanours, we must realize that the yardstick by which the people judge the BJP is not the same as that by which they judge other parties! Because of the high expectations we have aroused in the people by our excellent track record in all these years, even minor indiscretions can prove costly for us. And our response to the Karnataka crisis was not at all a minor indiscretion. I have consistently maintained that our handling of Karnataka has been absolutely opportunistic.

TAILPIECE

Today’s PIONEER carries on its front page a highlighted box item captioned : SNUB TO PM? It goes on to say that Smt. Sonia Gandhi will be meeting senior party leaders soon to discuss the Cabinet reshuffle.

Has the Prime Minister abdicated his right even to decide about his own cabinet? Today’s news reports about the removal of two Union Ministers generally emphasise that it is Soniaji who has sacked ‘two PM’s men.’

Sheer self-respect demands that the PM calls it a day, and orders an early general election.


L.K. Advani
New Delhi
May 12, 2013

I bring this up because there is a message here for Hindutvavadis, and it is not what Shri Advani ji is trying to say. Advani is not differentiating between Policies and Politics. The example he brings up is one to do with policy. In 1952, the crisis in Rajasthan Jan Sangh was one to do with policy. The crisis in 2013 in Karnataka BJP is one to do with politics.

1) In the Congress system all Policy is Politics. In the BJP, one representative of the Bharatiya Nationalists, all Politics should be about Policy.

Now let's not misunderstand the meaning here.

Each and every policy that Congress takes is designed to maximize its advantage to remain in power, as such is is all about politics, including the foreign policy. As it is all about power, it revolves around getting maximum money and influence out of the system for the various power-brokers and their minions out of the system. The fact that due to their policies, there is some benefit to the common man or to the nation is purely a collateral benefit. It is not the goal. In fact the Congress system has no national goals.

On the other hand, in BJP ideally it should be the other way round - all politics should be for advancing policies. Remaining in power as such becomes paramount as the means to bring about positive policy change.

That means Bharatiya Nationalist forces should do their utmost to come to power and stay in power in order to advance this nation. In the Bharatiya Nationalist system, profit by the individual from the system is purely a collateral benefit. It is however not the goal. Bharatiya Nationalist forces' primarily goal should be about advancing the civilization and the nation.

And because it is so, using all necessary means to come to and remain in power should be considered sanctioned for Bharatiya Nationalist forces.

2) Having said this, from the outside, for the people, it is difficult to judge who is making policy only to remain in power and thus as a form of politics, and who is trying to get to power and thus use politics as a medium to make policy as part of a nation centered agenda. The rhetoric itself can be manipulated and if one has the media as well on one's side, then it is all the easier for power-hungry to show themselves as policy-inspired and at the same time to portray the policy-inspired as being power-hungry.

The only way to adjudge the difference is through observing the commitment of various politicians to improve the metrics of national growth and strength over a longer period of time.

3) As war among various warlords and kings has stopped being waged in the battlefield, it has solely moved into the realm of politics. Whereas earlier too there used to be politics ranging from palace intrigues; forming blood, marital, military alliances; keeping the priesthood happy, etc., the king's authority and security came from the raw power he wielded rather than from the common man. It doesn't mean that the king did not use to look after the people, that being his duty, but it does mean that he didn't need to conquer his opponents in the court of the people.

As the war has moved into the court of the people, the ruler has become accountable to the people especially regards his revenue and outlays.

That means the politicians are being forced to fight it out in elections for the privilege to rule. Treasure still remains a potent weapon of war, so it is natural that the politicians would try to wield it against their competitors. And in order to collect this weapon of war, one would see more and more corruption, misuse of funds, more power of industrialists to lobbyi, and one can expect increased interference from foreign governments. Similarly the role of media too is of utmost importance and here too one would read more biased analysis and falling journalism standards. Then a contestant for power needs a big machinery which can help the ruler convince the people, which also leads to nepotism and favoritism.

In short, the weapons of war have changed, and politicians are being forced to look for these weapons through their influence when in power or through promises to various lobbies.

That is the downside of democracy, and would need to be accepted as a unavoidable evil.

One cannot allow one contestant for power a free-reign to collect the weapons, and put chains pf morality on the other contestant. The war needs weapons and even the Bharatiya Nationalist platform too would need to collect these.

4) Having said this, it does not give unlimited sanction to the Bharatiya Nationalist forces to indulge in corruption and nepotism or be indebted to industrial lobbies only. Weapons can be collected but Bharatiyas should not have to resort to using the bones of the people as weapons for a political electoral war.

The only way to minimize abuse of power to collect weapons to retain power is to try to minimize the weapons that the enemy can gather. The more accountability, transparency and people's participation that one can institutionalize, the less would be the ability of the enemy to raise funds through corruption, and thus less would be the need of the Bharatiya Nationalist forces to also resort to the same. So the effort of Bharatiya Nationalist forces to translate these ideas into policies and institutions should continue.

Even as one denies the leeway to oneself to collect weapons, so too one must deny it to the other as well. However a unilateral moratorium on corruption is not the answer either.

5) As long as the enemies of the Bharatiya Nationalist forces indulge in corruption and nepotism and media stranglehold, so too would the Bharatiya Nationalist forces, and that would have to be done through ways and means which does not undermine the leadership. Some part of the forces would have to act beyond the law and do the dirty work.

In order to retain propriety among the leadership, it is important that any form of corruption that takes place, it does not touch the leadership or any office holders. For this the Bharatiya Nationalists too would need invisible anonymous hands to do the dirty work of collecting funds. One can't have party or government office-bearers like Bangaru Laxman collect the "donations" and be caught in a sting.

6) In the end, there is one dictum that the Bharatiya Nationalist forces would have to follow.

Look after one's own people!

Corruption and Favoritism is part of the milieu in India and the world. This is how one generates the weapons for the good fight - the electoral fight. There is no getting around it, not as long as the anti-national parties have a free reign to indulge in all of this as well. Should an organization, a party-functionary be caught in law's dragnet doing so, and one is clear about his commitment to the cause, e.g. in the case of Kalyan Singh or even Yeddiruppa, the people simply cannot be thrown out. That is an absolute shame! One doesn't back-stab one's own people, people who have devoted themselves to the cause, to the party and in fact even agreed to do the dirty work of collecting "weapons", collecting money for elections.

Even if the person caught in the dragnet has to be sacrificed, what the party can do is to take the person away from the lime-light and at the same time reward him by bringing in his people into more responsible positions.

Bharatiya Nationalists would have to stand together and not let internal politics bring them down. Their mission is far too important to be sacrificed due to some instrumentalized morality pushed indirectly by the anti-national forces.

Of course all this depends on whether the person in question is committed to the cause or not. If he is committed then no such public immorality can be allowed to break the ranks! If one falls into this urge of morality, one starts playing the game according to the laws determined by the enemy!

7) What should be clear is that for Bharatiya Nationalists corruption cannot be a vehicle for increasing personal wealth nor can favoritism only be visible as nepotism. However these would be morally permissible, even if not legally permitted, if the cause of the Bharatiya Nationalists is kept in the middle and any collections are used to push forward that cause.

All this of course would be deplored by many as a stand, but we should acknowledge reality, even if we don't accept it., and Bharatiya Nationalist forces should not be forced to fight with one hand tied behind their backs.

[Sanku]

^^^ Excellent set of thoughts RajeshA ji, a very good framework to differentiate between real politic and rank oppertunism.

I would say, that using for framework, people like Pokhiryal, even Dhumal etc are those who could be put in the category of clearly furthering the cause and not being part of the network for personal gains.

What tripped Yeddi (and to an extent KS) was that he had moved clearly to "using policy as a excuse for personal gains" -- and in the BJP camp, the amount of "policy as an excuse for personal gains" has much lesser threshold than congress.

[Muppalla]

Well I repeat - The only reason to for BJP to exist is to win election. It is not to uphold morality (Shri Ram, Shri Krishna, Ramayan, Geeta or even present day Matts and various Shankracharya job is to do that), to install discipline and sense or purpose or be ideologically pure (RSS, VHP) is there, or to be non corruptible (well no example from Kalyug Sorry, couldn't find one).
It is like, when Drona asked his student what do you see, they saw Gurus feet, all elders feet, the forest and the three and the bird and then it's eye. Nothing wrong in respecting your old ones and your guru, but Arjuna only saw eye of the bird, he did not see his Guru feet or saw the presence of elder one from the family. For an archer, that is what is important. All this talk about Morality vorality, castism wastism is BS. BJP should do what it should to win election, even if it means congressification (I wonder what is that). A congressified BJP winning election for the next 100 years is better than a 'Moral' BJP which looses election for the next 100 years, while the Italians rule us in the mean time.
rgds,
fanne

++++1000001

Too much hot air is going on. Just plot and win the bloody elections in a very skewed system. Once in the saddle change the game for the better of the country
if folks only understand via puranas, vasudeva touched the feet of donkey to save Krishna.

[member_20317]

in the BJP camp, the amount of "policy as an excuse for personal gains" has much lesser threshold than congress.

Ok if we move ahead from this point bearing this in mind. Would it be safe to say the people once elected under this banner would find it in their personal interests to change the nature of the game in an overt manner later on. To basically enjoy the longer lasting benefits of the policy they were more comfortable with in the first place.

See sanku ji, you can either rely on the track record and compare or you can ignore the track record and compare. You cannot apply both set of conditions differently to different parties and still remain coherent.

OTOH what have you. Just see here in UP with SP. Pretty soon you will get the same in KA.

Delhi, Punjab, UP, Uttarakhand, HP, nearly all have tried Kongis again after giving a spell to BJP and nearly all have or are repenting. The only reason BJP has not been able to come back in some of these states is because of infighting and generic cluelessness about handling the electorate's expectation. Unless the expectations are honored nothing is going to move.

[member_23629]

Karnataka to distribute 30 kg rice per month at Re 1 per kg from June

Siddaramaiah has decided to introduce Rs 4,409 crore worth populist schemes at his first cabinet meeting immediately after swearing in as chief minister

People of Karnataka are going to have a ride of their life. Let them enjoy!!

[member_20317]

^^^ And sometime back right before the elections, Rahul Kawal was leading the charge with assorted ITvity types on why the Kooda was not being lifted in internationalised banglore. Now bangalore will get b_nged fit and proper.

Has anybody checked the state finances? Do they even have the money for all this or are they going to borrow and spend? If somebody has done some reading on that pls to enlighten common jamura like em.

[Sanku]

in the BJP camp, the amount of "policy as an excuse for personal gains" has much lesser threshold than congress.

Ok if we move ahead from this point bearing this in mind. Would it be safe to say the people once elected under this banner would find it in their personal interests to change the nature of the game in an overt manner later on. To basically enjoy the longer lasting benefits of the policy they were more comfortable with in the first place.

See sanku ji, you can either rely on the track record and compare or you can ignore the track record and compare. You cannot apply both set of conditions differently to different parties and still remain coherent.

OTOH what have you. Just see here in UP with SP. Pretty soon you will get the same in KA.

Delhi, Punjab, UP, Uttarakhand, HP, nearly all have tried Kongis again after giving a spell to BJP and nearly all have or are repenting. The only reason BJP has not been able to come back in some of these states is because of infighting and generic cluelessness about handling the electorate's expectation. Unless the expectations are honored nothing is going to move.

ravi_g ji, with due apologies, I actually could not understand what you were trying to say here. Frankly.

[Pranav]

Cross-posting from "The Bharatiya - Identity, Vision, Agenda, Proposition" Thread

Bharatiya Nationalists and Politics

RajeshA ji, you struggle too much trying to analyze Advani.

It is a simple case of a rent-seeking ambitious old man who puts self before party and party before nation. Brajesh Mishra had some frank observations to make in a recently released Wikileaks cable. His hide is too thick to understand that every day he hangs on, the greater is the revulsion building up among the cadres. He is a thoroughly compromised creature who lives in terror of Maino, and will cringe and apologize at the slightest hint of her displeasure. He will need to be physically dragged and thrown out with a big kick on the butt.

[member_20317]

Sanku ji,

Your observation is correct. I believe you would have no objection to acknowledging that the phenomena grew out of a practice. Every single one of the pressures were present earlier also.

If you have no objection then what is the basis for believing that it will not be the same again. This is essentially the acknowledgement of track record (karm sidhaant etc.). I personally belong to this group. And I would like to apply this parameter to both Kongis and Sanghis.

If however you do have an objection then you are treading the line of thought that discounts the track record. Even in such a case you have to apply the same parameter to both Kongis and Sanghis.

Any other mix match will screw up the basis of comparison.


........................

Pranav da, hard words! would be wiser to manage with tact. Retirement age is not the same thing as kicking the _utt.

[Pranav]

Pranav da, hard words! would be wiser to manage with tact. Retirement age is not the same thing as kicking the _utt.

IMO he is a thoroughly shameless fellow, with tact you will get nowhere. Time to call a spade a spade. But yes, if you have your iron fist ready, then maybe you can afford to put it in a velvet glove.

[member_20317]

Can speak only about myself bhai.

Iron fist in velvet glove is for opponents. Not for retirement age guys who are acting difficult. Half of politics is about giving outlet to unusable energies, if the other half is about directing ones own better.

But I guess people with an emotional investment in and around Sangh will begin to feel agitated. I do acknowledge the inevitability of it. Only I think it is unadvisable.

[Sanku]

Sanku ji,

Your observation is correct. I believe you would have no objection to acknowledging that the phenomena grew out of a practice. Every single one of the pressures were present earlier also.
.

Thank you ravi ji; so you are essentially saying, if I understand you correctly, that given congress and BJP track records we can conclude that the BJP is in for siddhant and politics is for policies rather than other way around in case of congress, and this is seen by track record?

If so I agree, the as a whole, BJP has shown that after coming to power it has followed a certain siddhant, therefore, supporting BJP during politics, is acceptable since we know that politics is in course for policies and not the other way around.

However that said, some caveats please --
1) I will not extend the track record to all the BJP all the time.
2) Certainly sub-sections of BJP have gone against this track record
3) Even assuming track record holds, each moment is new and careful consideration has to be given.

And the above is only for those who are "core" supporters of BJP, very few in the outside world, are likely to take the view of "discriminating" between "wrong for wrong cause" and "small wrong for right cause"

So a Yeddi inside BJP, over last few years and now, does not benefit from track record I am afraid.

[Sanku]

If some one faults BJP leadership for losing UP, I whole heartedly agree, but if some one thinks that losing UP was only the matter of handling KS, I can not disagree more. That was least of the reasons, in fact just like Yeddi, KS had mostly lost the state for BJP before he went out.

[RamaY]

Agnimitra ji,

I will respond to you in off-topic thread. http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 9#p1456229

[shaardula]

what did i tell you? toilets before trade centers and theme parks for siddu. i'll bet you he'll not take a single penny of that for himself. he's the last of that generation of politicians in KA. I give him a max of 2 years at helm. he'll be gone before you can say deekayshivakumar.

According to siddu himself, KA debt servicing: 9000 crore pa. some performing assets, some not (dont know exact break down).
pa loss to state exchequer from mining scams of the reddy's also runs in 1000s of crores.
reddy's not the only ones with mines. the lad family, dks both of congress and some jds cronies also run mines.

when i look at the list of people elected, it occurs to me that there is a new breed of politicians who are business-politicians. they are neither businessmen in the tata or even narayanamurthy mould, who will create wealth for the country and make positive contributions to the country, nor are they politicians in the devaraja urs, hegde mould, who had a social or a systemic concern. these are people who are into politics to make personal wealth. period. most of these politicians and their sons, have more wealth than the late krishnadevaraya himself. their objective is to make make money not change the system from inside out according to some dharmic principle once they are in the power. they have no principles beyond self fulfillment, what are they going to do for the country.

so here's the bottomline, all folks here holding on to a dharmic utopia, according to dharmic principles, you are being suckered & buggered. that ship of idealogy has long sailed and gone. say tata bye-bye to dharma, girma, & desh bhakti and other such nonsense, with your left hand while you suckle your right thumb. anybody here holding their breath that some savior from bhajpa will come and save us & our dharma because he has a strong dharmic fibre or constitution, please to break a vow, take a deep breath and eat some rice. not going to happen.

[RamaY]

what did i tell you? toilets before trade centers and theme parks for siddu. i'll bet you he'll not take a single penny of that for himself. he's the last of that generation of politicians in KA. I give him a max of 2 years at helm. he'll be gone before you can say deekayshivakumar.

Shaardula garu,

The issue is more serious and I honestly think it should be priority #1 for UPA2 govt, even before food security bill. I hope the BJP parliamentary party introduces this bill in parliament instead of filling their idiotic blogs. I want congress to build 1 billion toilets (it costs $200B = 1 year tax revenues) in the last year they are in power so we are done with this menace once and for all.

BBC: India Bihar rapes 'caused by lack of toilets'

[habal]

BJP can only change the top node at maino level, rest all remains same-same as in present. Level of hindutvicness will also remain same as it is already so at junior/clerical/implementation/panchayat level. But one can take comfort that someone with a strong idelogical mooring at the top can perhaps bring a few changes. Not a whole lot of changes, but just something for a start.

[shaardula]

what a joke rama. you want to collect taxes from nityananda? hillarious.

doodes. there are p-number of ashramas & mathas in this region. bulk of them serve to channel benami monies for big politicians. p-2 of them do part time things like dasoha, mid-meals, adult education, skill/trade/business training, self employment schemes for women and other such distractions across the area. not heard of, or seen even one such atleast a token symbolism from nityananda. beyond being an urgent practitioner of convenient theories on sexual emancipation & sexual liberation amongst the faithfuls, he's done nothing. rest is all boornaas. that guy is an opportunistic milker.

in the land of sringeri matha & dharmasthala, to make nityananda some sort of a messiah is an insult.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaQyK31Lv6U

[shaardula]

kiran,
the logic is very simple. siddu went after udupi matha. not dharmasthala. why? think about it.
for those not familiar, dharmasthala is a shiva temple established by the founder of madhva school himself. the daily services to shiva are still conducted by madhva priests (unheard of in the uber-sectarian madhva milieu), while the temple is administered by a jaina. it serves as a dharmic institution and is cast-less in all other functions. if only 50% of dharmics functioned like dharmasthala ...

[shaardula]

if nityananda was such a uplifter of the downtrodden, why doesnt he open his services in gulbarga, raichur and kolar? why does he need to be in bangalore?

[RamaY]

what a joke rama. you want to collect taxes from nityananda? hillarious.

doodes. there are p-number of ashramas & mathas in this region. bulk of them serve to channel benami monies for big politicians. p-2 of them do part time things like dasoha, mid-meals, adult education, skill/trade/business training, self employment schemes for women and other such distractions across the area. not heard of, or seen even one such atleast a token symbolism from nityananda. beyond being an urgent practitioner of convenient theories on sexual emancipation & sexual liberation amongst the faithfuls, he's done nothing. rest is all boornaas. that guy is an opportunistic milker.

in the land of sringeri matha & dharmasthala, to make nityananda some sort of a messiah is an insult.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaQyK31Lv6U

No one said Nityananda is a messiah nor does he represent all Hindu margas.

All I was saying is (1) he hasn't done anything illegal and (2) he hasn't done anything immoral. He is running a Tantrik resort and people are going there paying what they feel like. I do not know/care if he is running any schools or health care centers. He will have to pay taxes if his institution doesn't qualify for tax-exemption.

It is the secular-dhimmi variety that is making an extrapolation of Nityananda into Hinduism and calling him names. Hinduism being a confluence of million+ margas, it would accept Nityananda as well as long as he is not illegal and immoral, which he is not. Even if he were to be illegal and immoral, that wouldnt stop him in achieving Moksha/self-realization if he wants it and seeks it in Hinduism.

It is the secular-dhimmis who are demanding Nityananda to behave in certain way, by blackmailing Hindus that otherwise they would use Nityananda to throw mud on Hinduism.

[RamaY]

if nityananda was such a uplifter of the downtrodden, why doesnt he open his services in gulbarga, raichur and kolar? why does he need to be in bangalore?

Why are you behaving like a Secular-Dhimmi?

Why should Nityananda do anything to anyone? Why is there Govt of Karnataka and India?

[krisna]

if nityananda was such a uplifter of the downtrodden, why doesnt he open his services in gulbarga, raichur and kolar? why does he need to be in bangalore?

This statement is not right-
it is like saying sonia and pappu are for downtrodden then why do they stay in New Delhi at taxpayers expense instaed of in some village.


Anyway talking about Nityananda is OT here considering the thread.

[shaardula]

the first thing to understand and internalize is that nobody is throwing any mud on hinduism. much of ka hinduism has a robust practice with enthusiastic adherents. thank you. we dont need others to teach us our own culture.

second, nityananda himself earns his street cred as an advaitin. it is this violation of dharma, a compact amongst the faithful, not the violation of law of india that draws the ire of people living around him.

it is presumptuous of you to assume that people who have the misfortune of living with him, dont know what is good for them or have an understanding of their own cultural bearings and you have to educate them since you know the dharmic way. if you like him so much, please find him some acres in your own village. we in soka will be eternally obliged for your grandoise gesture in removing an unrepresentative malcontent from our midst. thanks.

from the founding schools of advaita, to astha mathas of the dvaita school to seminaries in exile of vishistaadvaita to schools of northen refugees, to ganapathi satchitananda to jiddu to jaggi, to basava schools to newer vokkaliga and lowe caste mathas, we host them all. we dont need morons like nityananda.

[RamaY]

it is presumptuous of you to assume that people who have the misfortune of living with him, dont know what is good for them or have an understanding of their own cultural bearings and you have to educate them since you know the dharmic way. if you like him so much, please find him some acres in your own village. we in soka will be eternally obliged to your help. thanks.

Did he get these acres thru illegal means? If so please file a case and put him in jail.

If he purchased them at market prices when the lands were cheap and now the RE values are sky-rocketed; sorry but that is how economy works.

How many acres he has and what is the area in SoKa and do you have a list of all land lords in SoKa?

The more I read your points the more it appears that you are overwhelmed by secular-propaganda.

Following are some cases I came across on web

TRICHY: A man has complained to the Trichy police that a few disciples of controversial godman Nithyananda are trying to usurp his Rs 1 crore-worth property on the periphery of Trichy. In his written complaint to the deputy superintendent of police, the complainant, R Selvamani, from Navalur Kuttapattu near Trichy said he and his family members had jointly given power of attorney to one Danushkodi to sell one acre of his land. Selvamani's family possessed 3.36 acres at a stretch. Selvamani claimed the piece of land was instead transferred to godman Nithyananda through a settlement deed without their knowledge.

According to Selvamani, the fact that the land had been clandestinely transferred to the godman by the man to whom he entrusted power of attorney (POA) to sell the land, came to light only when his son Jageeshwaran preferred a litigation to claim his portion of the family-owned land. The matter became further complicated when the man to whom the POA had been entrusted passed away recently. Jageeshwaran also mentioned in his petition to the court that the settlement deed executed in favor of Nithyananda was illegal and unauthorized.

So Nityananda got some land transferred to his name by GPA. The courts can decide if this is a land purchase or donation by GPA holder or indeed an illegal transaction initiated by Nityananda.

And the other side of the story goes - http://www.nithyananda.org/news/petitio ... rty-trichy

Let us not confuse between different issues.

[shaardula]

if nityananda was such a uplifter of the downtrodden, why doesnt he open his services in gulbarga, raichur and kolar? why does he need to be in bangalore?

This statement is not right-
it is like saying sonia and pappu are for downtrodden then why do they stay in New Delhi at taxpayers expense instaed of in some village.
Anyway talking about Nityananda is OT here considering the thread.

well that is the point. people dont vote for pappu and rajma because they claim the virtue of a baba amte without his sacrifices. this is transparent to all. only patronizing i know better than you types assume otherwise.

state elections. was a mandate on state adminstration. state-level, bhajpa was visibly and demonstrably the more corrupt party. anyone hear of a renukacharya, that paragon of virtue fron the more dharmic thou party? google him. sexual liberation-walas here might find great inspiration from this dharmic deeds. the street level actual voter's didnt. sorry.

this is something i'm surprised i have to state explicitly in a forum like brf.
state politics is different from central. people are not idiots. they know how much power each guy is likely to exert and at what level.

[krisna]

cool down shaardula,no need to get hyper.

this is OT for this thread.

[RamaY]

Shardula garu,

You are mixing many things. I agree all these "perceptions" matter and even may have an impact on voter perceptions and electoral fortunes. But that doesn't mean -

1. We need to apply western memes in our moral world-view
2. We need to blame electoral failures on unrelated issues
3. We need to call Indic systems adharmic and so on

What we need to do is
1. Separate the electoral process from Hinduism - The best strategy in short-term (kind of secular-taquiyya) is to make governance as a 400% governance, anti-corruption and indian-interests
2. Fight Hindu ills/perceptions thru our own truth-propaganda (release truth - spiritual, historical and relational).

[shaardula]

krishna,

if you dont have the balls to respond similarly to posters who say things like "people of ka deserve what they get" etc., especially without knowing realities, dont talk to me. what the fukk do these guys know about what people in ka aspire for? i can be more colourful in letting you & them know yell en itkobahudu, but will refrain.

[Sanku]

state politics is different from central. people are not idiots. they know how much power each guy is likely to exert and at what level.

After having agreeded with you on most issues here, let me say I disagree with this one bit, its not that people are idiots, but people do tend to forget, time makes the newer idiots seem more idiots than the older ones. They have forgotten last Kkta govt with Dharam Singh, and have not really factored in how much congress has gone downhill.

Its bit like what they say about marriage, triumph of hope over experience, burned with BJP they have taken Congress, in the hope (thoroughly misplaced) that it will help things.

I understand why Kkta chose Congress, but I can not agree with the hope of people of Kkta. (there is a strong feeling of hope in people) -- its a short lived illusion, they would have been better off voting BJP and fumbling harmer. (In my very humble opinion)

Anyway, its very little vote that has swung, so really speaking people of Kkta have done neither of what we are talking about -- in the moment of confusion (or for other reasons), they pretty much went with the person they voted last time, its just that 1-2% vote swing is what the above analysis will be applicable to.

===========================

Electorate is not stupid, but its not infallible either. We just have to remember the support UPA I had in electorate, and even on BRF, the support at least for Man mohan during 2008.