Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 13 May 2013 21:32

shaardula wrote:krishna,

if you dont have the balls to respond similarly to posters who say things like "people of ka deserve what they get" etc., especially without knowing realities, dont talk to me. what the fukk do these guys know about what people in ka aspire for? i can be more colourful in letting you & them know yell en itkobahudu, but will refrain.

+1008.

KA voters are wise and they gave a very wise verdict. It is up to the political actors to learn the lessons from it. One cannot blame KA voters if political parties do not know how or want to learn the lessons that are conveyed.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 13 May 2013 21:33

shaardula wrote:krishna,

if you dont have the balls to respond similarly to posters who say things like "people of ka deserve what they get" etc., especially without knowing realities, dont talk to me. what the fukk do these guys know about what people in ka aspire for? i can be more colourful in letting you & them know yell en itkobahudu[/i], but will refrain.

Relax shaardula, it will be nice to discuss in appropriate threads about Nityananda.
About other issues, it will be nice if you avoid terms like the above mentioned. It kills debate/discussion.

will refrain from posting for now.

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 13 May 2013 21:36

no sanku, even with bhajpa votes the people who got re-elected are those who tend on average to be agreeable to ka worldview. nothing fancy. simple common sensical forward looking people. ordinary ka people are enthusiaistic participants in their own culture. they dont need anybody to be a knight in shining armour to protect their cultural objectives. nobody on the street level has any aspiration of establishing a rasthra, cause the rasthra of their cultural dreams, as fiscally corrupt as it is, already exists. imho, what people expect is fewer people speaking less of an incomprehensible archaic jibberish, and more people exhibiting a simple common understanding of things as they are, not some great dharmic wisdom or some complicated conspiracy theory. nobody is looking for that.

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 13 May 2013 21:38

we are not a mercantile people like the gujjus even. i dont know whose bright bulb idea it was to parade modi amongst our midst. does disservice to both him and us. he came. he saw. he said something. this ear people heard, that ear they let it out. neither did he say anything that motivated us, nor did we do any anything to bolster his credo. waste only.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 13 May 2013 21:45

Shardula garu.

Yes, no Dharmic wisdom/conspiracy theory is required to mobilize KA society and none should be given. Similarly no dharmic-self-flagellation is required by Kataka society either. This is what I was saying in Nityananda example

I wonder how this parade "Modi" in our midst thought came to you. He was neither proposing any mercantile idea nor he gave any self-righteous sermons.

He tried to present few facts
- That the BJP govt did better than a comparable INC govt in this or other states
- That BJP govt stands for some governance-worldview and they need not worry about who is at the helm (yeddi or shetter) as the leader would implement BJP manifesto etc.,

I think KT voters took it as an insult when their own elected leader Yeddi was put aside by some self-righteous dharmic perspective shown by LKA. it is like LKA overwrote their democratic mandate, irrespective of the reason. In otherwords LKA told them (and even now) that their world-view is wrong and he has a more dharmic worldview.

So if you and KT have any disagreement it should be with LKA and his lieutenants.

member_23629 · Post by **member_23629** » 13 May 2013 21:47

shaardula wrote:we are not a mercantile people like the gujjus even. i dont know whose bright bulb idea it was to parade modi amongst our midst. does disservice to both him and us. he came. he saw. he said something. this ear people heard, that ear they let it out. neither did he say anything that motivated us, nor did we do any anything to bolster his credo. waste only.

It that is the case, then Karnataka people and Congress both deserve each other.

vivek.rao · Post by **vivek.rao** » 13 May 2013 21:52

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/rudy- ... s/1115054/

At a time when serious questions are being raised over Parliament not being able to carry out its legislative work owing to frequent disruptions, BJP general secretary and Rajya Sabha MP Rajiv Pratap Rudy has moved a private member's Bill calling for selection of the prime minister through direct elections — in other words a presidential form of government — and confining MPs and MLAs to only law making.

Rudy has suggested de-linking of the executive from elected political representatives both in the states and at the Centre. The elected representatives, he has said, should "confine themselves to framing of laws and hold others accountable for implementation of law, rather than be implementers of law themselves".

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/parli ... 77801.html

Will this ever fly?

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 13 May 2013 21:59

vivek.rao wrote:http://www.indianexpress.com/news/rudy- ... s/1115054/
At a time when serious questions are being raised over Parliament not being able to carry out its legislative work owing to frequent disruptions, BJP general secretary and Rajya Sabha MP Rajiv Pratap Rudy has moved a private member's Bill calling for selection of the prime minister through direct elections — in other words a presidential form of government — and confining MPs and MLAs to only law making.

Rudy has suggested de-linking of the executive from elected political representatives both in the states and at the Centre. The elected representatives, he has said, should "confine themselves to framing of laws and hold others accountable for implementation of law, rather than be implementers of law themselves".

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/parli ... 77801.html

Will this ever fly?

No. Not unless the INC and BJP become the dominant all-India parties and mutually decide on it. Right now there is no political unanimity and both parties have to depend on coalitions. Also it may not be possible given India's diversity although it may be a good thing. Right now it is a mad house of political parties.

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 13 May 2013 22:10

shaardula wrote:we are not a mercantile people like the gujjus even. i dont know whose bright bulb idea it was to parade modi amongst our midst. does disservice to both him and us. he came. he saw. he said something. this ear people heard, that ear they let it out. neither did he say anything that motivated us, nor did we do any anything to bolster his credo. waste only.

Do not make blanket statements without nuances, about 6 crore Gujaratis are mercantile. If there is no nuance, the argument becomes nonsense.

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Edited once.

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 13 May 2013 22:28

no only a relative basis, gujjus are more hands on & mercantile people than 'digas by any yard stick. as a community, very few people as hands on as them. no denying that, for sure? love that about them.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 13 May 2013 22:32

What has "being mercantile" got do with NM's candidature? Please don't bring hocus-pocus into an analysis. And this Nithyananda thing is OT. You are disrupting the thread.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 13 May 2013 22:41

^^^

Such statements are how things go downhill, fast. Setting up one state vs another, trying for exceptionalism etc.

Heck if Kkta had anyone remotely like Modi, they would have given him three terms, or may be five, of that I am sure, because there is no CM like Modi in Kkta, does not mean that they wouldnt want one.

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no sanku, even with bhajpa votes the people who got re-elected are those who tend on average to be agreeable to ka worldview

No doubt, that is why Yeddi got 10% votes. Right? That in itself says all that needs to be said ? Also that Congress got the same % of votes it got in last elections?

Clearly people tend to follow their established patterns. I am not denying it at all. BTW the same is also true in Gujarat, congress still got last time %, so Gujju's too, follow their worldview and elect people who are agreeable to Gujju-land.

I am only questioning where this world view will lead Kkta, or is leading Kkta, not a very bright future by any means. Gujju-land's choices in pipping BJP marginally over Congress, has allowed the state to grow and prosper, net net, even given 35% people with questionable sense of Gujju dom -- Gujarat has made the right choice.

Kkta? Not sure.

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 13 May 2013 22:43

well because, economic efficiency is not what comes to mind in the first place if you are not the mercantile kind. social battles are. "our" guy winning against "their" guy does. check the thread, i was not the guy who brought up nityananda. you folks dont have a problem when conspiracy theories are spewn, but have a problem with rebuttals to them? there are people on this thread pontificating on armageddon for crying out loud? and my wails against nityananda gets your goat? talk of cognitive dissonance.

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 13 May 2013 22:45

you guys are imagining some equivalences where none exist. calculations in ka politics are simple. you guys are over computing and imaging ghosts that dont exist. we are who we are. and happy about it. we don dont want to be like any one else. based on proven records, we are sdre than some, tfta than others. whats the big deal about that?

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 13 May 2013 23:00

what 10% sanku? half of which was gathered by local parochial lords like vaijanath patel? let me tell you this, if mainstream bhajpa had not managed to decondition people like bommai jr, "yeddi" would have got more.

yeddi by himself barely won his own neighbourhood. 2 seats in greater shimoga, is scandalous. the best member in his team, the soul of his spirit, his pet squeeze, his better half, lost.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 13 May 2013 23:12

shaardula wrote:what 10% sanku? half of which was gathered by local parochial lords like vaijanath patel?

10% is 10%, how what why is fine, but the fact remains Yeddi did get 10%, all politicians and political parties get their votes through "local parochial lords" onlee

let me tell you this, if mainstream bhajpa had not managed to decondition people like bommai jr, "yeddi" would have got more.

I absolutely do not get what you mean to say here (seriously)? That Yeddi should have gotten more if not for BJP? and that is a good thing in terms of what it says for Yeddi and Kkta voters?

Or the other way around?

In any case that hardly makes a difference to my original points, viz

1) barring few (1-2?)% of voters, Kkta just voted like it always votes.
2) Those that have switched, have not made a intelligent choice by the switch, merely a desperate one. Born of false hope.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 13 May 2013 23:16

shaardula wrote:. we are who we are. and happy about it

I am not sure, are you saying having status quo is always good? No better solutions exist? Any change must be seen as outside imposition and not us?

In any case, I am not even sure who is asking anyone to "change", unless of course showing different political preferences means that people "change".

So did Gujju's suddenly change when they started voting Modi/BJP? Turned communal all one fine morning? Stopped being Gujjus?

habal · Post by **habal** » 13 May 2013 23:31

It's kind of getting frightening seeing a group of almost rabid supporters pouncing on anyone or anything who hits a discordant note. So much expectations pinned on to one man feels like it can not have a good outcome. Though I do not mind giving Modi a chance, but something rankles. One must always realize that the power of forces outside India is a million times the power of any 'incumbant Indian PM'. And so is their potential to create mischief. If at all Modiji comes to power, I hope he takes sufficient precautions to prevent himself from being in the glare of limelight all the time for work doesn't get done that way. Hope he has somebody equal in stature to project in front who can distract media (unwanted) attention. If Modi really comes into power, it will be a big risk that India would undertake. Literally shaitan sits at our doorstep waiting for us to fumble.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 13 May 2013 23:33

Apart from division of votes this is possibly one of the worst BJP state Govts. ever. Similar to what they had in RJ and MP in the past. Give Kt good governance and they will re-elect you like any other state. NM was able to counter Keshubhai becoz of his performance which convinced another additional few percentage to vote for BJP in Guj. Hopefully, this will clean-up the muck in Kt BJP.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 13 May 2013 23:42

LKA is right. If the BJP had taken strong actions against yeddy initially, they would have salvaged some more votes. Trying to keep the corrupt in power at any cost, and trying to appease him by changing CMs twice and the constant attacks on the govt by yeddy, all reduced BJP to laughing stock in KA. If yeddy had stuck around, BJP would have been reduced to half of what it got now probably.

People who read some news reports from far off places don't understand the ground realities. And yes, compared to Krishna's administration 10 years back, the BJP govt was almost rudderless and lurching from one crisis to another of its own making, not to mention the various scams their ministers and MLAs got into on almost daily basis.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 14 May 2013 00:13

Karnataka has done just fine economically.

Back in 2002 GJ per capita income was 10%-20% above KA, today in 2013, GJ per capita is about 10%-20% above KA. The data says there is very little difference in growth rate. Suraj has claimed there is a difference between the way GJ is growing and I'm not convinced. The differences are marginal not structural.

Even TN through all the claimed 'mis-rule' of KK and Dr JJ has grown faster than GJ. Don't even look at better performing states like MH, HY, Dilli, etc. So what now.....

Also GJ has nothing like Bengluru, which attracts Indias best and brightest and is tolerant enough to live with their 'rambunctious' behavior.
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At the risk of disrupting this thread, I have repeatedly said if NM wants to advance his agenda he is going to have to level with the people and speak about things that matter to common folks. IMO he should talk about 3 items, education, status of women and jobs justice relentlessly. This business of 'I am NM, I am the sher of GJ, and I am the one, and behold GJ' does not fly outside GJ and someone needs to tell him this.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 14 May 2013 00:23

It is just not about numbers. It is also about vision and its articulation. I want to see what a guy is going to bring in over say the next 10 yrs. Unless the idea is to muddle along with one problem after another like Madam-MMS duo. PC has some credentials but I am yet to see any performance or vision - at least it has not been articulated. Maybe he has it in him but given the stranglehold of the family smart guys like PC are afraid to take the initiative. When you have an in-built nepotism you are not going to go far.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 14 May 2013 01:15

Theo_Fidel wrote: <snip>

At the risk of disrupting this thread, I have repeatedly said if NM wants to advance his agenda he is going to have to level with the people and speak about things that matter to common folks. IMO he should talk about 3 items, education, status of women and jobs justice relentlessly. This business of 'I am NM, I am the sher of GJ, and I am the one, and behold GJ' does not fly outside GJ and someone needs to tell him this.

I usually dont bother about some issues. I give it a pass.

I normally hear from you a lot of things in many threads.
You seem to have a forlorn hope in seeing demons when none exists in NaMo.

You swallow the lies peddled by congis/presituttes unquestioningly.

You claim to have seen many many states in India including meeting top people except Gujarat.
You claim to have not seen any development in Gujarat thru your eyes.ears or feet, but seen rest of India.

Now what am I supposed to believe in you. Tell me.

There is something called credibility which no one can take it from anyone unless the person themselves give it away for cheap.

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You bring stats and many other issues at the drop of the hat on many things, defend or oppose the same stats with equal vigour.

But with Gujarat you stonewall despite on your face stats.

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You are well read and say so-- but say that

This business of 'I am NM, I am the sher of GJ, and I am the one, and behold GJ' does not fly outside GJ and someone needs to tell him this.

.
I have not seen NaMo say the above in any of speeches. show me where he has said so.
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Theo despite all the negativity asociated by you with NaMo --
tell me honestly if you have the guts
1) why does NaMo win consistently on good governance.
2) he has not won elections on caste or communal polarisation. this was more from congis brand of polarising issues.
3) he has not given speeches even at height of Godhra riots which makes for polarisation.
4) what things have changed since the congis last ruled GJ and how is it different today.
5) all his speeches are in youtube or other places- hence easily verifiable-- dont go thru pressitutes who tell lies.
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You have gone thru the whole thread which highlights his and his detractors (non ..)achievements. But still peddle lies.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 14 May 2013 01:34

On the subject of Swami Nithyananda, here is a well-researched article by Rajiv Malhotra on the circumstances surrounding the scandal.

http://www.medhajournal.com/geopolitics ... ?showall=1

Of interest:

First one must understand why Swami Nithyananda became such a target. He was virtually unknown 7 years ago, but once he appeared in public his popularity catapulted at a dramatic rate. For example, last year, YouTube wrote to him that he was the most watched of all Indian spiritual leaders on the Internet and proposed a closer collaboration for their viewers. This letter also stated that among all spiritual leaders worldwide (not just Indian) he was the second most popular one, the Vatican being first. His meditation programs have become very popular in USA and in certain Indian states. The main factors are that participants almost invariably report experiencing higher states of consciousness, and he has healed a large number of persons of a variety of diseases. His healing powers are what brought together his core inner group of devotees from around the world – doctors, businessmen, IT professionals, corporate executives. Many of them have explained their personal healings from terminal illnesses as the turning point in their lives. His meditation programs sometimes bring up to a few thousand attendees for periods ranging from a few days to several weeks.

While the funds come mostly from upper strata participants in India and USA, a large portion of the expenses have been allocated to develop grass-roots social and spiritual programs focusing primarily in Tamil Nadu, his native state. This is where he is seen as a threat by Dravidian as well as Christian forces. For instance, in December 2009, about 600 villages across Tamil Nadu sent their local “Nithyananda leaders” for a celebration and planning session in his main ashram near Bangalore. I happened to be present for the event. These common folks, mostly from the lower strata of Tamil society, had walked 300 kilometers for this journey, which they saw as a spiritual pilgrimage. The reason for the anger of Christian and Dravidian forces is that his activities have put a dampener to conversions in many districts, and several Christians have returned to Hinduism by getting initiated formally into his organization. The swami himself has spoken against conversions, and has also stated that the Dravidian movement had made Tamil people unspiritual in their lives, and that this had caused social decay. His Tamil language publications and courses have become his most popular ones, far exceeding the numbers in English. Also he is a very big threat because he is not a Brahmin. Because he cannot be targeted using the classic attack strategies used on Brahmins, and because the masses in Tamil Nadu were rising to swell his ranks, the threat he posed to the existing political power structure had to be stopped one way or another.

The attack against Swami Nithyananda has consisted of two prongs, destroying his image and alleging legal misdeeds. At first a highly sensational sexual charge was broadcast in order to devastate his credibility and create an atmosphere in which any and all kinds of outlandish allegations would be taken at face value. Once the media and popular sentiments had been turned against him, there was one amazing allegation after another in rapid sequence. It was clear that none of this was spontaneous but was being centrally orchestrated under a systematic plan.

What became evident to me was that there was “cooperation” in informal and unofficial ways among the media, police and lower level judiciary. In fact, many third parties were aware of the attack in advance and had warned his people before it happened with specific details of the plan. For instance, one of his top devotees got a phone call from someone based in New York describing the media and police attack that was to come. His predictions turned out to be accurate but at that time the ashramites did not take the threat literally. He said that for the right sum of money he could be helpful in preventing such an attack. He claimed that the planning for this attack had started a year ago. He mentioned that a budget of Rs 200 crores was allocated by some overseas groups to demolish Hindu gurus especially in south India, and named two south Indian churches as the nodal agencies to coordinate this strategic plan. (I am presently pursuing these leads as part of my book investigation.)

There was another concrete extortion effort about eleven or twelve days prior to the scandal breaking out. A lawyer contacted them and claimed that his client had compromising videos, and that the client was seeking money or else they would get released. The same intermediary later sent a letter containing a variety of unsubstantiated criminal allegations against Swami Nithyananda, and this letter’s distribution list included India’s Prime Minister, President, Sonya Gandhi and Rahul Gandhi, various Chief Ministers and police heads, various national criminal investigation and security organizations. I have a copy of this letter, and it makes the Nithyananda organization seem like a terrorist outfit that needs to be attacked for the sake of public safety. This letter along with a DVD of the sex video was delivered to the Chief Minister of Karnataka state two hours before the videotape was first aired. Clearly, the attack was well planned and executed across many locations, and was persistently carried out over several days. This is not the work of some isolated individuals.

There were warnings given to individuals in the ashram that their phones were being tapped and that they better leave to save their own lives, because something horrible was about to happen. One friendly man based in Pune who runs a magazine and is a devotee of Swami Nithyananda, told the ashram a week in advance of the attack that some such catastrophe would happen. He named his source as a man in the Bangalore Press Club. Another publisher in Hyderabad who distributes Swami Nithyananda’s books in Telugu, called three times to warn that a graphic video would be released and gave a precise time for this to happen. It was also reported that an American devotee who had fallen out of the ashram was working in association with one Jody Razdik who specializes in guru bashing at a prominent web site. He was being helped by an Indian based in San Diego, who was once very deeply involved inside the Nithyananda organization but had turned malicious. The only man who has openly come out as the main accuser was an ashramite who had a falling out when he got demoted due to his conduct. It was recently reported that he had a prior criminal record against him but nobody in the ashram had checked out his background before admitting him.

There were constant threats received to harass the ashramites and scare them away, with claims that “narcotics will be planted to cause arrest warrants.” The actions by the police were being leaked to the media ahead of time and even to the opposing side, leading to numerous “tips” received by “friends” asking the ashram dwellers to run away before “the attack comes.”

But even after a couple of weeks since the scandal has erupted, the lawyers for Swami Nithyananda’s ashram have failed to get copies of any concrete charges filed with the police, except a few trivial ones. Each time they approach for specific details they are told that there is no formal charge, except relatively minor ones. So the intimidation has been carried out mainly through media reports, without any legal due process starting where facts and arguments could get cross-examined. This lack of formal charges has enabled an atmosphere of intimidation using rumors and threats that cannot be pinned down officially.

It is important to contrast this with the manner in which Indian media treats scandals facing Islamic or Christian groups. The numerous scandals occurring overseas often get blocked by Indian media entirely, or are given mild treatment with tremendous sensitivity, in order to be seen as “secular” and not “communal.” By contrast every kind of allegation against any Hindu group gets clubbed in one homogeneous category and treated as a social scourge equivalent to terror groups.

The media’s hounding mentality and mafia tactics deserve to be condemned. In the Swami Nithyananda case, they have used carrots and sticks to lure and threaten, using whatever would get them more sensational footage. Several TV stations and journalists camped out in Haridwar and sent me emails requesting my help in arranging an interview. When I failed to deliver (because it was not up to me to deliver any such thing), some of them turned nasty against me. One TV woman promised the swami’s people “positive” coverage if she got an exclusive. But after the interview, she betrayed them and turned it into more distortion and smut. This led Swami Nithyananda’s handlers to give interviews to more stations in order to counteract this distortion. But the more they said before TV cameras, the worse the scandal became. One station was blatant in its threat to the swami’s assistant: “If you don’t give us an interview right away, we will show you the power of the media to destroy you.” At one point a major TV station also wanted to drag in Ramakrishna Mission with similar allegations, but someone was able to stop that.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 14 May 2013 01:51

I thought we just settled the issue of , 'no one gives a damn about vision" at the voter level. Folks need help now. Is anyone even listening to what shaardula saar is saying or is it more of yum-bee-yea giri....
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WRT Nityanada, with 5 million followers and 1,000s of crore of property, he is probably bigger than all the observant Christian community of India put together. Of course it will be a big deal because Nityananda is a big fish.

At kudankulam raids, the GOI claimed all kinds of outrageous things about Christian groups, all of which got thrown out of court. After wild claims and character assassination of 1000’s of crore, including by a moderator on this website who should have known better, the end result was 40 lakhs of unaccounted income. The media promptly lost interest. Nityanada types make that in an afternoon.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 14 May 2013 02:32

Theo_Fidel wrote:I thought we just settled the issue of , 'no one gives a damn about vision" at the voter level. Folks need help now. Is anyone even listening to what shaardula saar is saying or is it more of yum-bee-yea giri....
-----------------------------------------------

WRT Nityanada, with 5 million followers and 1,000s of crore of property, he is probably bigger than all the observant Christian community of India put together. Of course it will be a big deal because Nityananda is a big fish.

At kudankulam raids, the GOI claimed all kinds of outrageous things about Christian groups, all of which got thrown out of court. After wild claims and character assassination of 1000’s of crore, including by a moderator on this website who should have known better, the end result was 40 lakhs of unaccounted income. The media promptly lost interest. Nityanada types make that in an afternoon.

Like this

‘Expunge remarks against Graham Staines'

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp ... 117865.ece

Supreme Court expunges remarks in Staines killing case

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/supre ... case-81435

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 14 May 2013 02:41

Theo_Fidel wrote:
WRT Nityanada, with 5 million followers and 1,000s of crore of property, he is probably bigger than all the observant Christian community of India put together. Of course it will be a big deal because Nityananda is a big fish.

"Probably bigger?"

Here's something every citizen of India should know.

The single largest owner of land in India, apart from the Government of India, is the Church.

It's absolutely true, unbelievable though it may seem. Largely because of vast land grants by the colonial British regime which were never rolled back by the sickular regimes of the last 65 years, an astonishing 6% of land in this most densely populated nation on earth belongs to the Church.

Even if this much property belonged just to Christians in general, there would be a certain inequity in 3% of the Indian population by religion owning 6% of the land. But it's not just Christians in general who own this land... it is the theocratic institution of the Church, committed to soul-harvesting expansionism and mass conversions of the heathen Hindoo. ALL the revenue from this land, it can be assumed, goes towards soul-harvesting in one form or another... because as we know, the Church does not pay a single naya paisa in taxes, and retains total control of all the funds it collects.

Now even if this were not the case... which it demonstrably is... the idea that Swami Nithyanananda is a "big fish" with more resources than all the observant Christians in India would be laughable. Mainly because, as Rajiv Malhotra and others have articulated, Christianity in India cannot be considered a marginalized, impoverished "minority religion" with any more validity than a McDonalds in Delhi employing 12 people can be considered a "small business." Christianity in India is a wholly owned subsidiary of global Christianity, and entirely beholden to the international authorities of global Christianity, which supply it with resources more vast than any group in India could possibly hope to muster.

At kudankulam raids, the GOI claimed all kinds of outrageous things about Christian groups, all of which got thrown out of court. After wild claims and character assassination of 1000’s of crore, including by a moderator on this website who should have known better, the end result was 40 lakhs of unaccounted income. The media promptly lost interest. Nityanada types make that in an afternoon.

I guess the evangelization of blatant lies is par for the course given the commitment to soul-harvesting of some forum members.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 14 May 2013 04:06

So the claim is Nityanada is not a big fish. Interesting.....

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 14 May 2013 04:18

Compared to the Sharks of Evanjihadi Christianity, he is no more than a minnow.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 14 May 2013 04:23

Sigh! Since you say it with big words, it must be so....
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Meanwhile KA elections remember, any insights on why the folks selected the eevill sickular EJ Italianate Maino party of non-citizen green card holding... ..no wait...

disha · Post by **disha** » 14 May 2013 05:11

Theo_Fidel wrote:So the claim is Nityanada is not a big fish. Interesting.....

For whatever crimes Nityananda has done, if he can be legally hung for it - hang him or throw him in jail if his crimes deem it.

From you, before you cast any stone further, please tell us how corrosive the evangilical conversion culture is to other better cultures. Do comment on the sexual abuses done on the children by the vatican and more importantly, explain why vatican is anti-human.

You have not apologised for trying to convert. Please apologize that first and take an undertaking that you will treat all religions with respect and equally and refrain from any further conversion business.

disha · Post by **disha** » 14 May 2013 05:17

Theo_Fidel wrote:Sigh! Since you say it with big words, it must be so....
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Meanwhile KA elections remember, any insights on why the folks selected the eevill sickular EJ Italianate Maino party of non-citizen green card holding... ..no wait...

Simple, because there was internal fratricide. Unlike maino party, there is independent thinking involved.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 14 May 2013 05:31

Theo_Fidel wrote:Sigh! Since you say it with big words, it must be so....
-----------
.

Not big words. Big numbers. 6% of India's land is owned by Church. Church owns more Indian land than anyone else except GOI. Church pays no tax, and keeps lots of cash to harvest souls. No Hindu Swami has wealth even close to this.

Is that clear enough, in small words?

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 14 May 2013 05:51

Theo_Fidel wrote: WRT Nityanada, with 5 million followers and 1,000s of crore of property, he is probably bigger than all the observant Christian community of India put together. Of course it will be a big deal because Nityananda is a big fish.

Per 2011 census the christian population is about 3-4%, which is 35-50 million people. Per the same census, Hindus make 80% of the population that is 800-950 million.

No wonder Hindu maths are wealthy, prosperous.

Could you please confirm if Christian missionaries and churches have proportional wealth compared to their population? Kindly note that majority of Christian converts belong to poor and untouchable communities who have been exploited since 4012 BC.

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/debate-on-ov ... 453-3.html

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 14 May 2013 06:52

Rudradev wrote: Not big words. Big numbers. 6% of India's land is owned by Church. Church owns more Indian land than anyone else except GOI.

Do you have a reliable source for this? 6% of India would be like the entire state of Punjab, e.g.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 May 2013 06:53

I think during british era alone, a lot of church bodies got granted or purchased prime land all over the big indian cities. in blr alone, a swathe of lane along richmond/residency/MG road the old core of town if tallied up today - spread across schools, publication centers, churches would not be less than 50,000cr in value. and they build pretty solid stonework type structure that lasts centuries.

even the new evangelical churches are flush with cash and have gone on a land buying spree in the outskirts. the inner city can no longer be affordable / not for sale but the outskirts are very much on the table. if you go via hennur road to airport, some such "compounds" are visible that are new. some are just huge empty walled plots with a signboard.

compared to the woeful land holdings of hindu temples or social institutions and the weak nature of their buildings, the church collectively definitely has way more TFTA land holdings and structures.

partha · Post by **partha** » 14 May 2013 07:14

Siddramanna has already committed Rs 4400+ cr of tax payers money to buy votes for Lok Sabha elections. On day 1. Without even a cabinet in place. Schemes announced under this plan -

Rs 1 /kg Rice to BPL families
Complete waiver of loans to.. .. .. farmers, SC/ST, backward classes and minorities.

Seriously, what has caste or religion got to do with loan waiver? He calls himself secular. Among the people he met on day 1, prominent were leftist politicians like Girish Karnad, U R Anantamurthy, Marulasiddappa. Let's see what all he does. All in all I'm not getting a good feeling.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 14 May 2013 07:17

Pranav wrote:
Rudradev wrote: Not big words. Big numbers. 6% of India's land is owned by Church. Church owns more Indian land than anyone else except GOI.

Do you have a reliable source for this? 6% of India would be like the entire state of Punjab, e.g.

Yes it's true. Check Breaking India by Rajiv Malhotra.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 14 May 2013 07:23

Sushupti wrote:
Pranav wrote: Do you have a reliable source for this? 6% of India would be like the entire state of Punjab, e.g.
Yes it's true. Check Breaking India by Rajiv Malhotra.

Maybe someone can post what references Rajiv cites. 6% of India would be some 200,000 sq km, which is in fact 4 times the size of Punjab.

disha · Post by **disha** » 14 May 2013 07:32

Pranav wrote:
Rudradev wrote: Not big words. Big numbers. 6% of India's land is owned by Church. Church owns more Indian land than anyone else except GOI.

Do you have a reliable source for this? 6% of India would be like the entire state of Punjab, e.g.

You shocked? I am shocked that you are shocked

An a different note - in B'Glore - check out Bowring "institute" on prime MG Road. http://www.bowringinstitute.com/facilities.htm.

Ask them how much property tax they pay in a year. Zero - nada - (for proof old article: http://archive.deccanherald.com/Deccanh ... 05/s24.asp).

And try to get a membership in there!

Now any government which tries to tax them loses election and several of the members have an affiliation which is pro-C system and anti "hindutva" system. Feel free to prove me wrong., I will be delighted.

BTW, above is an example. Another one is http://www.secunderabadclub.org/pages/t ... -types.php (at least you are eligible, membership is not granted on eligibility!). One of this days all BRFites from Hyd/Sec should apply in there (en masse) and see their reactions.

Another one Madras presidency (http://www.thepresidencyclub.com/membership.asp).

Their property tax itself will be in several 1000 crores! That is the C-System which is working for CONgis.