Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 02 Jun 2013 16:16

I think regional satraps are getting stronger in India. Whereas Third Front would be more of an arrangement of regional satraps coming together, choosing their own leader, and then ruling Delhi, in BJP too power has moved to the Chief Ministers of various BJP ruled states.

Those sitting in Delhi would have ever less chances of deciding the constitution of the governments in Delhi.

What puts the breaks on this new evolution is the dynasty. When the dynasty goes, the whole glue keeping UPA together also vanishes. UPA is in fact the Third Front without the dynasty.

What Third Front would of course lack is a process of deciding who should be the leader who forms a government, and the lack of an overall organization too would hamper a cooperative climate among the various constituents of the Third Front.

In this case the BJP has a distinct advantage - ideology, organization.

Another difference would be that Third Front is a post-poll understanding, whereas in BJP it would be a pre-poll decision.

BJP becomes unassailable if it can increase its presence around the country, where it could get 220 seats in any election.

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 02 Jun 2013 16:24

Muppalla wrote:
Sagar G wrote: Advani knows very well who is the party's choice for PM and behind whom the party cadre is standing he is not so dumb as to miss tell tale signs of who will get BJP maximum votes. All this brouhaha of Advani being anti modi is media manufactured only, I mean each and every time there is an election the media gets filled up with stories of internal fights of BJP but nothing about the internal tussle within congress, after a couple of times falling for the trap I have now realised the pattern and hope that other's will too in due time
He should clear the air then. He is allowing the manufacture. Either this oldie is too much of a chanakyan (which is doubtful) or he is truthfully anti-Modi. His bringing in names of Gadkari and SSC are deliberate when the rest is rallying around Modi.

His saying was Country is bigger than Party and Party is bigger than person. If he thinks that party is bigger then he should help it rather giving confusing and non-clear statements to DDM.

Why should he clear the air? For whom I ask? You? Me? The media?

I ask you this- right now Modi is doing what he must. And so is Advani. Keeping the focus on BJP chief ministerS achievements in GJ, MP, Goa, chattisgarh. It permits BJP to show how many leaders they have and unlike UPA They can put up for PM anyone among these Cm and they still can achieve progress.

The old wily fox knows what to do. Second guessing him is foolish.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 02 Jun 2013 17:09

panduranghari wrote:They can put up for PM anyone among these Cm and they still can achieve progress.

Advani fans don't want to accept that Modi is not just another BJP CM.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 02 Jun 2013 17:40

RajeshA wrote:I think regional satraps are getting stronger in India. Whereas Third Front would be more of an arrangement of regional satraps coming together, choosing their own leader, and then ruling Delhi, in BJP too power has moved to the Chief Ministers of various BJP ruled states.

True..

There has to be a careful engineering of the process where the power slowly shifts from capital to provinces. One has to be careful if one is determined to save the integrity of nation-state. Else Mao like war is an available option. But consensus throughout the political spectrum of India is that ROI should not unravel as power shifts.

I have tried to address this issue on deracination thread (with inputs from others, especially ShauryaT ji)..

One of the key features to ensure a federal structure whilst keeping ROI intact is that the new satraps are bound together by a common thread. For BJP, Hindutva (with all its soft and hard interpretations) is that thread. It may be so that the thread is not very well defined and hence not strong yet (especially the economic aspects of Hindutva). But the Nawab-esque satraps of mughal-british DIEnasty have to be thrown out of this equation. Else ROI won't remain one. This transition has to happen smoothly.

The Indic federation made up of PIF regional satraps is the preferred endgame. The Non-PIF satraps have to be eliminated.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 02 Jun 2013 18:29

This is so true. Advani sees anyone except Modi and calls them as ABVish. Buddhaa paagal hogaya. Now I remember, he called Sushma is like ABV and now SSC is like ABV. Next who?

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 02 Jun 2013 18:30

panduranghari wrote:The old wily fox knows what to do. Second guessing him is foolish.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 02 Jun 2013 18:46

The irony is that when ABV was actually active, the Loh Purush was always sulking and scheming against him.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 02 Jun 2013 18:50

That is a lie that Fordriwalas like us to believe that Advani was always bad

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 02 Jun 2013 19:34

Muppalla wrote:

This is so true. Advani sees anyone except Modi and calls them as ABVish. Buddhaa paagal hogaya. Now I remember, he called Sushma is like ABV and now SSC is like ABV. Next who?

Oh, LKAji's sure to see ABV-ishness in Anant Krji, Rajnath ji and who knows, even the Ram Lalji-TC Gehlot duo.... Anybody including the Nehroos will don ABV's aura in LKA's presence...everyone but modi, that is...

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 02 Jun 2013 19:37

Sagar, I find it ridiculous that Advani used Modi to compare Chauhan. He could have used Rahul baba, MMS or UPA in general.

Yes in several respects BJP ======= INC. I expect there are good leaders in INC, and bad leaders in BJP. INC must have some hard core HINDU guys as well.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 02 Jun 2013 19:42

Manish_Sharma wrote:
Rudradev wrote:Can someone please post a transcript of LKA's *exact* words in the speech where he allegedly praised Chauhan and referred to Modi? I have a strong feeling that we are arguing over MSM phantoms and nothing else here.
Rudradev ji here I have put verbatim hindi statement as advani speaks from 0:31 onwards in this video:

0:32 onwards advani says:
"Narendra Bhai Modi ko main kehta hoon, ke Gujarat to pehle bhi swasth tha, usko aapne utkrisht banaa diya hai iske liya aapka abhinandan! -cough- Lekin Madhya Pradesh aur chhatisgarh bimaru pradesh the, unko swasth banaana, aur swasth hi nahin aisi sthiti laanaa ki man mein ichha ho ki bhaarat mein hi number one naa banein balki vishwa mein bhi number one ho........"

Dynasty poop is repeating Modi-haters argument which they use to make Modi's achievements look either insignificant or undistinguished. Was it a Freudian slip?.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 02 Jun 2013 20:05

Muppalla wrote:

This is so true. Advani sees anyone except Modi and calls them as ABVish. Buddhaa paagal hogaya. Now I remember, he called Sushma is like ABV and now SSC is like ABV. Next who?

As Ramanaji pointed out in one of his posts, Time of UCs, who got empowered during Brit rule due to access to Western education, in power coming to end. Dynasty poop and post 47 Nehruvian elites(aka Raibahdurs) will realize it very soon.

Ramana Ji's post for reference.

You want a true caste based discussion?

Both INC and BJP are core upper caste parties with a smattering of others to capture political power due to their primacy in India.
The INC claims to have modern outlook while BJP claims to have tradtional outlook. But both are same at home.
Both have leaders who cant get elected for dog catcher but decide who will rule in the states under their control.

Both these parties core got empowered in the British colonial period due to access to education. The reality is that they form a very miniscule portion of the total population yet have disproportionate power projection.

The INC from 1956 onwards had this type of rule invoking Art 356 to dismiss those whom they dont like.
The BJP antics in Karnataka is a result of this phenomenon.
Until there is true representative participation on the parties this mess will continue.
In UP the SP and BSP are representative of their supporters (OBC and SCs).

In UP putting Uma Bharati in charge was first step in giving back power to the supporters.

member_23629 · Post by **member_23629** » 02 Jun 2013 20:06

^^^ Advani would have been better off comparing Shivraj Singh Chauhan's period with Digivijay Singh's period and how it is much better. There was no need to bring in Modi. The guy is turning senile.

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 02 Jun 2013 20:16

SwamyG it's fine that you find his comparison ridiculous but that doesn't mean he pooh poohed Modi, in the same speech he also said that both of them are very important for the party's future. He did a balancing act.

It's not about several aspects or some aspects it's about supporting the ideology, either you support BJP's ideology or you don't. Personally I don't have any interest in discussing with the "swinging junta" about BJP or Modi.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 02 Jun 2013 20:32

Sagar Saar you do not realize, he did not have to do that. He could have praised rightly Chauhan using other analogies. We know MSM is paki, why give it ammunition? If Advani is trying to say something, then he should openly say that. It will be a national service. I do accommodate that Modi might have traits that I do not celebrate. There is nothing wrong for BJP to bring healthy competition and other leaders to national light. After all Modi does not deserve anything on the platter, and I as Modi supporter would like him to win over other BJP leaders in a transparent and healthy way.

Advani is pushing all the buttons that point to Modi - India's position in the world, an Indian state's position in the world, development, humility etc.

Ultimately it does not matter if it is Rahul or Modi who become the PM, as long as India makes progress and its citizens have opportunities to develop and be healthy/happy. And importantly the social fabric stays plural and there is no appeasement for votes.

And I am not anti anyone.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 02 Jun 2013 20:33

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 02 Jun 2013 20:43

SwamyG I would still stick with the view that there is nothing wrong in his statement, being the eldest leader in the party he has to also make sure that there is no grudge between different leaders. He was speaking to an M.P. audience and I think that's good enough to see why he said so. Said that SSC doesn't have the charm of Modi at the national level so he is no threat for Modi and AFAIK he doesn't harbour PM dream as for now.

India making progress under Gandhi family is an urban legend which refuses to die.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 02 Jun 2013 21:16

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 02 Jun 2013 21:42

This twitter is stupid and they are tooooo anti-Advani. In reality Advani is a super pop-star.

https://twitter.com/search/realtime?q=advani&src=typd

Just see the pakis on Twitter.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 02 Jun 2013 22:49

Goa conclave to skip PM issue - http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... 69839.aspx

This is a win for Advani.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 02 Jun 2013 22:53

Arjun wrote:Modi or no one, there is no third choice

Swapan generally tends to be weak when it comes to the crunch. Here he fails to point out that the second choice "no one" is actually a victory for Advani.

disha · Post by **disha** » 02 Jun 2013 23:50

Where Is Sanku?

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 03 Jun 2013 01:20

Sanku is Loh purush

Yogesh · Post by **Yogesh** » 03 Jun 2013 01:27

^^ perhaps he is tired of trying of daily diatribe here..now hiding for cover before I am thrashed for saying the forbidden ..

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 03 Jun 2013 01:57

Modi is inevitable PM candidate for BJP
MADHAV NALAPAT

Bihar Chief Minister Nitish Kumar has emerged as the last hope for those within the BJP leadership adverse to Narendra Modi being the NDA's Prime Minister candidate in 2014. Although for the record, each of the party's mostly Delhi-based leadership touts the virtues of the Gujarat Chief Minister, yet no one is in favour of Modi as the successor to Atal Behari Vajpayee as the BJP-NDA Prime Minister of India. According to insiders, BJP president Rajnath Singh is hoping to emerge as the compromise candidate for the Prime Ministership, in the event that the NDA reaches the 200-seat mark. Rajnath expects RSS opposition to Arun Jaitley and L.K. Advani to remove them from the lists, while his advisers consider Sushma Swaraj a lightweight relative to the current BJP chief. All this, of course, in the expectation that the party leadership will be able to resist the pressure from the base to anoint Modi as a prospective PM, should the NDA get the numbers needed to come to power.

Party strategists say that the argument being used in internal BJP conclaves against a Modi coronation is that the JD(U) would then leave the NDA, thereby weakening the NDA so much that the UPA would come back to office the third time around. They argue that the "Nitish factor" mandates that there be no announcement of any PM candidate until the polls are over. In the post-poll scenario, the expectation is that the JD(U) would be joined by other prospective allies in opposing Modi, who would as a consequence have to either remain in Gandhinagar or come to Delhi as BJP president, a toothless post when the party is in power at the Centre. In order to silence Modi's backers within the party, it is expected that a National Campaign Committee will be announced in a few weeks' time, with Modi at the head. This would fall significantly short of an announcement that Modi would be the BJP's prime ministerial candidate.

The dominant view within the Delhi-based leadership, in particular L.K. Advani and Arun Jaitley, is that the party should focus on corruption and promise of development, with Hindutva taking a back seat. The other group, which is much better represented within the BJP base and the wider saffron parivar than at the higher rungs of the party ladder, is that a polarised election fought in a subliminal way on the issue of "neglect of the majority community" will ensure the consolidation of votes needed for the BJP to cross the 175-mark.

The Catch-22 for the Delhi-based leadership is that such a high score for the party would make it almost inevitable that the Campaign Committee chairperson Modi be nominated as the leader selected to go to Rashtrapati Bhavan to stake a claim to form the next government. Should the BJP tally fall within the region of 150-175 seats, those within the party who seek to continue the Vajpayee style of inclusive governance are certain that their moderate views will win them the backing of parties that are now even with the Congress.

However, the odds favour a declaration in favour of Narendra Modi being made the PM nominee before September. Throughout the country, only the Gujarat strongman has the charisma needed to galvanise the base and, in the opinion of party workers, pull in enough voters into the booths to ensure that the BJP tally reaches the "safe" (for Modi) figure of 175-200. Within the next three months, Nitish Kumar may have to decide on whether to quit a Modi-led NDA or to accept the BJP's star as the inevitable candidate for the PM's post, should the NDA get the numbers.

http://www.sunday-guardian.com/news/mod ... te-for-bjp

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 03 Jun 2013 03:29

There are plans to conduct Delhi marathon with "Modi for PM". I suggested to do dharnas, stayagrahas infront of Loh Purush and Maa Sushma.

Delhi based Tajinder Bagga and other fans of Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi have launched Modifying India campaign. Under this initiative they first launched t-shirts and other stuff featuring Narendra Modi’s picture. They also launched a song ‘Namo Namo’ in support of Modi(video presented above). Now they have organized a marathon which has been titled as ‘NaMo for PM Marathon’. The marathon event has been organized on 30 June, Sunday at 5 pm on India Gate. A registration form to participate in this event was shared today on social media.

The link for registration is
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1zo_O73 ... g/viewform

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 03 Jun 2013 03:42

^^^
Tejinder Bagga invites Advani to become Chief Guest of ‘Modi4PM’ marathon event

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 03 Jun 2013 04:00

LKA reminds you of yayati.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 03 Jun 2013 04:27

Methinks the entire Modi campaign is orchestrated from USA. Successful, rich, connected Gujus from USA and Gujarat have linked together.

That motif of Modi with "hope" seems to be 'inspired' by the Obama posters.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 03 Jun 2013 06:55

Ram Jethmalani does some plain talking - http://www.sunday-guardian.com/analysis ... d-straight

LKA is called the Jaichand of today's India -

senior members of the party sabotage each other, displaying no wisdom or maturity to overcome the Jaichand syndrome, which has been the bane of India for more than a millennium.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 03 Jun 2013 08:01

Gujarat Confidential

It looks like Gujarat CM Narendra Modi is not the one who goes to class without doing his homework, as he has already started laying the groundwork for his Prime Ministerial dreams. Buzz is that a manifesto containing a 50-point reforms agenda for India is being drawn up by a small coterie of trusted IAS officers who have served the Gujarat government in various capacities and currently are either heading PSU's in the state or have retired from active government services. Sources add that with this move, Modi wants to show his detractors in the party and the youth how serious he is about his PM ambition. The CM who till now had been happy playing the administrator rehashing schemes started by the UPA government, branding them differently and implementing them, now wants to be play at being a reformist! The contention is that with this manifesto, he plans to showcase his visionary reforms that are not borrowed from any Central government schemes but are his own. While the development has been hushed up for now, owing to the ambiguity among top party brass about the contenders for the PM's post, his recent public speeches have carried some strong hints on what these reforms could be!

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/gujar ... /1124284/3

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 03 Jun 2013 08:18

Rahul Gandhi in Kerela to attend marriage

Congress general secretary Rahul Gandhi arrived in Alappuzha district on Friday to attend the marriage function of Amitabh Dubey, son of long-term Gandhi family associate and member of the board of trustees of the Rajiv Gandhi Foundation, Suman Dubey.

Amitabh is getting married to Amulya Gopalakrishnan, a journalist, at the Sree Krishna Temple in the district on Saturday morning.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... -secretary

Now read this hack job by Ms GopalKrishnan on Madhu Kiswar. Typical Dilli-Billi Journalism.

First Person Singular

http://m.indianexpress.com/news/first-p ... r/1123743/

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 03 Jun 2013 08:35

Ishrat-LeT link input true: IB

http://www.dailypioneer.com/todays-news ... ue-ib.html

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 03 Jun 2013 08:44

Sushupti wrote:Now read this hack job by Ms GopalKrishnan on Madhu Kiswar. Typical Dilli-Billi Journalism.
First Person Singular

http://m.indianexpress.com/news/first-p ... r/1123743/

That article must have really sealed the marriage proposal ! Such 'progressiveness' and witticism on display - enough to warm the cockles of any blue-blooded Dynasty-lover...

More than being a Dilli-billi - she seems to be the quintessential Kerala Commie. Only reason this tribe couldn't destroy their state as much as their Bong brothers managed to do - is because of the 'Gelf' dole that the state benefits from.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 03 Jun 2013 10:54

I do not know why Arun Jaitlay did was he did in BCCI. If he has any PM ambitions they are almost killed today. In any even nation is not going to accept another Raja Sabha PM and BJP leaders will not accept someone who has no people base. He is also proved to be close to INC establishment (not family - there is no materail yet to suggest it)

Why modi wants to be Gujarath Cricket board president??? He has to get out of that kind of posts. He also should have said something against about Srinivasan which could have earned him some points when all others kept quite.

nawabs · Post by **nawabs** » 03 Jun 2013 12:59

Via Zee News:

"Modi is Number 1, Raman Singh is Number 2 and I am Number 3 in hierarchy" - Shivraj Singh Chauhan

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 03 Jun 2013 13:19

The ONLY people who are dying to create a image of LKA/NaMo fight are the congressies and the paid media.

Simple.

They tried a number of combinations, Gadakari vs NaMo vs Advani vs AJ vs Sushma vs RJS vs <put your name here> -- however this brilliant construct of "everybody opposing everybody" and "everybody also working with everybody to oppose everybody" kind of got too complicated too be even credible as a lie.

So after using their "supposed interest in goodwill of BJP" by people such as NDTV, Telegraph, Telehaka, and the people breathlessly quoting from them, and caring for it, including here supporters of Govindacharya and AAP

-- to basically provide a excuse to bad mouth each and everybody in BJP and allies (LKA, AJ, SS, SSC, Raman Singh, Nitish) -- that game is running out.

So the "lets pretend to support Modi while bad mouthing BJP and calling for a break up of BJP" -- gang has narrowed down its game to LKA and NaMo. Since neither of them are likely to come out and issue clarifications like others. (they have their own reasons)

However the following exists, but such clarifications are hardly likely to temper the anti Modi anti BJP crowd.

13:26 Advani did not praise Shivraj Chouhan to put Modi down: BJP : The BJP reiterated that a recent assessment of Gujarat Chief Minister Narenda Modi offered by senior leader LK Advani were not a thinly-veiled attack

"Advani-ji's remarks have been misinterpreted. He did not praise Shivraj Singh Chouhan to put Modi down," BJP President Rajnath Singh said at a press conference in Hyderabad today.

Advani praised the Madhya Pradesh chief minister for the state's economic development. Modi, he said, had done well in Gujarat, but Madhya Pradesh was seeped in poverty when Chouhan took over in 2005.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 03 Jun 2013 13:54

^^Sanku ji, in the beginning I was also thinking on the same lines. As I remembered mms taunting advani before 2009 elections that "advani is threatened by modi". So when these stories started flowing in media and finding its way to BRF I decided that this is a congi+naxalite chaal to create a rift in BJP and its voters.

But when I see this:
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 0#p1464760

I mean there was no need for advani to bring in modi and already developed gujarat being improved by modi. This has been the point made several times by this azmi woman (who opened NGO with harsh mander) many times on tv debates that modi hasn't done anything in gujarat , gujarat was always high growth state.

Now advani knows ConMedia is going to any length damaging BJP, still he makes such a statement. Why? Is he going senile? or Is he just a jealous old machine? or under blackmail by dynasty?

Why are MP CM & Raj Nath Singh clarifying on advani's behalf? Can't advani himself clarify?

Let me again post his statement verbatim:

0:32 onwards advani says:
"Narendra Bhai Modi ko main kehta hoon, ke Gujarat to pehle bhi swasth tha, usko aapne utkrisht banaa diya hai iske liya aapka abhinandan! -cough- Lekin Madhya Pradesh aur chhatisgarh bimaru pradesh the, unko swasth banaana, aur swasth hi nahin aisi sthiti laanaa ki man mein ichha ho ki bhaarat mein hi number one naa banein balki vishwa mein bhi number one ho........"

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 03 Jun 2013 14:10

Manish_Sharma wrote:Let me again post his statement verbatim:
0:32 onwards advani says:
"Narendra Bhai Modi ko main kehta hoon, ke Gujarat to pehle bhi swasth tha, usko aapne utkrisht banaa diya hai iske liya aapka abhinandan! -cough- Lekin Madhya Pradesh aur chhatisgarh bimaru pradesh the, unko swasth banaana, aur swasth hi nahin aisi sthiti laanaa ki man mein ichha ho ki bhaarat mein hi number one naa banein balki vishwa mein bhi number one ho........"

How come the bold part is == to dissing Modi??? M.P. was in a gone to the dogs kind of state and SSC has really done a good job, Advani rightly patted him on the back and yes Gujrat was in a better place w.r.t. M.P. , if people here think that once a state is developed or doing good then it always remains in that state then you need to see what has happened to Maharashtra.

SSC has also tweeted that he is no. 3 after Modi and Raman Singh.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 03 Jun 2013 14:18

Manish_Sharma wrote: I mean there was no need for advani to bring in modi and already developed gujarat being improved by modi.

Manish-ji; I dont see how, as far as I see, Advani is lauding BJP in general

1) Gujarat became best from good
2) MP became good from Bimaru.

At no point of time, is Advani remotely criticizing BJP or Modi, in fact, if not for hype sensitivity it would be taken as a strong pat on the back for Modi. (Seriously since when turning good into excellent been a small thing, or a run down?)

In fact Nitish has been regularly run down on the forum (unnecessarily IMVHO) by saying that Nitish took a basket case Bihar (true) whats the big deal in making it better?

If one wants to read stuff, one can easily read "oh SSC has only helped a sick state, that's easy, Modi turned a good state better" -- hence Advani is running SSC down.

Had NDTV primarily, and some other similar mischievous elements, not deliberately tom-tommed this in a particular way, I bet my boots that you would not glance at this twice.

This is blatant open psy-war, triggered by vested interests, and fulled by either those who hold brief for them (like AAP) or those whose patience has worn so thin in this battle (and I don't blame them) and they have started jumping at shadows.

A bit of sayaamn (patience) is needed at this juncture -- INC is self destructing, both India and BJP and such elements need to be steered safely to remain intact post this pralaya. (I have always been an evolutionist, and not a revolutionary)